Canadian Bill C-234 to Require ISP licensing

Matthew Skala writes "In Monday's House of Commons proceedings, Canadian Member of Parliament Peter Stoffer (NDP member for Sackville-Musquodoboit Valley-Eastern Shore) introduced Bill C-234, an anti-child-pornography Bill. It requires all Internet Service Providers to get licenses from the Government, specifically including non-profits and individuals. Licensed ISPs then must block Web sites named by the Government as containing child pornography, and must "report information [of the Government's choice] to the Commission for the purposes of this Act" - a requirement that neatly slips in spy-on-your-users requirements under the radar of the ongoing Industry Canada consultation on "Lawful Access" (wiretapping/CanCarnivore)."

Comments

Unconstitutional...

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't that violate the First Amendment? Oh yeah, you don't have one in Canada!

Re:Unconstitutional...

[Guspaz]

Of course we have a constitution. It just doesn't have such silly things as the right to wear short sleeve t-shirts ("Right to bear arms" anyone?) ;-)

Re:Unconstitutional...

[Cyclone66]

But our Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms has the notwithstanding clause meaning the government can just say "notwithstanding" and violate any part of the charter they feel like it. Hence the language laws in Quebec, bill 101.
You can't have english only signs. All signs must be French (may contain english at half the size).
Also, immigrants must go to french schools, even americans (unless they make throw a fit through the local news, then they might get an exception, or they can go to a private english school).
Our rights are only our rights until the government feels decides to take it away. It's the law.

Re:Unconstitutional...

[Guspaz]

In Québec, there used to be a loophole allowing immigrants to go to an english private school that was not funded by the government. One of my best friends was a romanian immigrant who was forced out of the public system by the government when they intervened to prevent him from attending the next year at the same school. Of course, the government recently closed this loophole so even someone from England is forced into french school. It's completely rediculous.

Those bastards!

[arthurs_sidekick]

Canadian Member of Parliament Peter Stoffer (NDP member for Sackville -Musquodoboit Valley-Eastern Shore) introduced Bill C-234, an anti-child-pornography Bill.

First, they try to annex Frodo's hobbit-hole, then THIS!!!!!

Child P0rn, just a foothold to kill free speach?

[GeekWithGuns]

I'm probably going to burn through some of my karma on this, but what the hell:

By itself licensing ISP's is not a bad idea. It is a pointless idea, but not bad. Now add in "You must censor whatever we tell you to" and were starting to talk trouble. Sure it just starts with kiddy p0rn, but then they will find something else they don't like and what do you know all we need to do now is add it to the list.

I'm not really all that fond of kiddy p0rn, but protecting children at the cost of liberty, in this case freedom of speech, is just too high a price to pay! Hmmm, I've heard this argument before somewhere - where could that be?

It's stupid on so many levels..

[Anonymous Coward]

Ban child-porn sites? What about proxies?
Report information? If you're banning the sites, what useful information is there to report?

Introducing a bill != Law

[Sandman1971]

As the subject says, introducing a bill != law. This bill still has to be voted on by parlement. If it gets a yes vote in parlement, it must then be voted on by the Senate. I really really don't think this bill will come to pass.

Re:Introducing a bill != Law

[littlerubberfeet]

Uhm, Ok, how come we have the DMCA, had Prohibition, and how come two 14 year olds were given the death penalty....in the US of A?

Hopefully, Canada isn't as idiotic as the US. I feel ashamed sometimes to be a citizen of the US....

Re:Introducing a bill != Law

[Anonymous Coward]

But this bill was put forward by a member of a party that is not the government and sits with the fewest members of the 5 party represented in parliment. It will take years for it to get final hearing if at all. Considering that this government doesn't have the balls to put teeth into the child porn problem in their own country, I dought if this thing even survives the first reading. Can we say snowballs chance in hell.

next bill to be passed...

[stuuf]

defines

childpr0n ::= <criticism-of-canadian-gov't> | <hacking/priracy-related> | childpr0n

child porn is just the beginning. They will probably modify the law to block anything they want to.

Re:next bill to be passed...

[stuuf]

I think I did the BNF wrong. didn't get the right recursiveness. forgot a + or something. I should just shut up now.

Private members bill

[Tabercil]

It's going to be difficult for non-Canadians to understand what's going on here...

The NDP (of which Peter Stoffer is a member) is largely a rump party (holding only 13 seats of 301). So the amount of influence it has in Canadian politics at the moment is minimal beyond criticism.

Since the NDP does not hold power, this means that Mr Stoffer's bill is a private members bill. These very rarely become law. Often what happens is these bills go into commitees and don't come out.

I'd say the chances of this bill getting passed are about as good as Larry Ellison & Bill Gates becoming bosum buddies.

If you want to learn more about how the Canadian political system works, try these links:

http://frenchcaculture.miningco.com/library/week ly /aa030902a.htm
http://www.parlcent.ca/canada/mg.h tml

Re:Private members bill

[rakerman]

Indeed under the current system any bill not introduced and fully supported by the government in power (the cabinet, specifically) has about 0 chance of ever making it into law.

Re:Private members bill

[george399]

Further to that, the chance that NDP will ever be that party in power is the same: 0

Besides, the current government in Canada doesn't tend to make controversial laws. (Chretien wants to keep his "most poopular prime minister, ever" title...). And of course, until the right gets back together, the Liberal party will be in power for quite some time.

Re:Child P0rn, just a foothold to kill free speach

[orthogonal]

By itself licensing ISP's is not a bad idea. It is a pointless idea, but not bad.

Pointless is bad, when:

it costs tax money to enact and to enforce

it costs individuals and companies money to ensure they're in compliance

it gives lawyers something else to ligitigate about

it takes away government resources, like police time, from legitimate problems

Just figuring out what laws apply, and what taxes accrue, given the mammoth complexity of federal law (in any Western nation), requires anyone doing business to pay far too much to a lawyer and to an accountant.

Pointless costs money and time without producing any individual or societal good. Pointless is bad.

Government provided porn list.

[grent246]

So under this bill if you want to be kept up to date with all the latest child pornography sites all you need to do is register as a canadian ISP and the government will keep you up to date with lists of sites.

Canadian Politics 101

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone in the house of commons (aka house of representatives for you americans) can introduce any bill onto the the register. The kicker is, the prime minister decides on which order bills are voted upon in the house. since this member introducing the bill is not in the prime minister's party, it is likely that the bill will be put to the bottom of the registry, and never voted upon (for the registry is cleared every season, when parliament takes their usual spring, summer, fall, and winter breaks).

this bill will never even be debated in the house. i could say "lalala let us all wear our underwear on our heads, or you'll be thrown in jail", and it would be a bill, doesnt mean its every going to be debated or become a law.

This will not happen people.
The NDP (new democratic party) that introduced this bill is highly socialist (in my opinion communistic), and introduces all kind of crap.

Re:Canadian Politics 101

[Anonymous Coward]

why was this modded down to flaimbait? by someone who doesnt even know what the ndp stands for probably.

go get a gun and shoot some deer or something you ignorant bastards

Re:Child P0rn, just a foothold to kill free speach

[GeekWithGuns]

I agree, pointless is bad, it cost's money, but it isn't nearly as bad as the loss of freedom. If you take my money (via taxes or any other such manner) I still have the freedom to complain, orgainize, and tell the world why I don't like your tax; however, when you take my freedom (in this case free speech) no ammount of money can buy it back.

So given the choice of waisting money or loosing freedom, I would pick waisting money. At least that way I could still have half a chance to fix the problem if I wanted to.

In this case the real fight is freedom of speech and not giving up just a little bit of it to "make the world safer for children". With any government this is just the start of taking away more and more of that freedom until it is completely worthless. As an added bonus I'm also against a waistful government agency.

Child P0rn, just a foothold to kill free speech...

[The_Guv'na]

Now, if the aim of this bill was REALLY to stop CP rather than full-scale user spying, then wouldn't it make more sense to block sites at the internet backbone level rather than at the ISP?

What if a user visits a dodgy site that fires off 101 popunder CP ads? Or is unfortunate enough to get his email on a CP spammer's address list?

Yup, while these pricks might not have any real influence in Canadian politics, you have to admire their balls for bringing up such a blatant "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!" style policy in an intelligent and free country such as Canada. It's more of an American Style(tm) idea.

Also, rather conveniently, it means that no ISP could possibly make a stand against this sort of BS, since they'll lose their lisence. I might to move to Canada one day, but not if it just turns in to an American Style(tm) dictatorship.

Ali

Re:Unconstitutional... Offensive, incorrect.

[Anonymous Coward]

The second amendment means I can put an aircraft carrier in my back yard, and shoot leaves off my trees with a Thompson if I want to. I cover the literal translation of later 1700's English later. I am not pleased with you making stupid jokes about armless t-shirts. Dennis Miller did that on Leno and I was none too please, you used his delivery verbatim and its not funny.

Communists, Totalitarians, Fascists, and for some reason socialists all like to strip people of arms because it makes them easier to control, and sell them a line of shit for which there is no recourse against the government.

One of Hitler's first order of business what to disarm the Jews. Here I quote Reichsfuhrer Waffen Shutz Stauffel Heinrich Himmler:

Jews Forbidden to Possess Weapons By Order of SS Reichsfurer Himmler - Munich, November 10th, 1938.
The SS Reichsfuhrer and German Police Chief has issued the following order:
Persons who, according to the Nurnberg law, are regarded as Jews, are forbidden to possess any weapons. Violators will be condemned to a concentration camp and imprisoned for a period of up to 20 years.

Nazis again (posted in occupied France):

Ordinance Concerning the Possession of Arms and Radio Transmitters in the Occupied Territories.
1) All firearms and all sorts of munitions, hand grenades, explosives and other war materials must be surrendered immediately. Delivery must take place within 24 hours to the closets Kommandantur unless other arrangements have been made. Mayors will be held strictly responsible for the execution of this order. The troop commanders may allow exceptions.
2) Anyone found in possession of firearms, munitions, hand grenades and other war materials will be sentenced to death or forced labor or in lesser cases prison.
3) Anyone in possession of a radio or radio transmitter must surrender it to the closest German military authority.
4) All those who would disobey this order or would commit any act of violence in the occupied lands against the German army or against any of its troops will be condemned to death.
-The Commander in Chief of the Army

After invading, Nazis used pre-war lists of gun owners to confiscate firearms, and many gun owners simply disappeared. Following confiscation, the Nazis were free to wreak their evil on the disarmed populace, such as on these helpless Jews from the Warsaw Ghetto. Adolf Hitler's use of firearms registration lists to confiscate guns and the execution of their owners teaches a forceful lesson -- one that reveals why the American people and Congress have rejected registering honest firearm owners.

An English Professor says in no way is the Second Amendment ambiguous. It means, stockpile and load up. Its your right.

I asked, "Is the structure and meaning of this sentence the same as the sentence I first quoted you?" He said, "yes." I asked him to rephrase this sentence to make it clearer. He transformed it the same way as the first sentence: "Because a well-regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

ENGLISH USAGE EXPERT INTERPRETS 2ND AMENDMENT

by J. Neil Schulman

July 17, 1991

I just had a conversation with Mr. A.C. Brocki, Editorial Coordinator for the Office of Instruction of the Los Angeles Unified School District. Mr. Brocki taught Advanced Placement English for several years at Van Nuys High School, as well as having been a senior editor for Houghton Mifflin.

I was referred to Mr. Brocki by Sherryl Broyles of the Office of Instruction of the LA Unified School District, who described Mr. Brocki as the foremost expert in grammar in the Los Angeles Unified School District-the person she and others go to when they need a definitive answer on English grammar.

I gave Mr. Brocki my name, told him Sherryl Broyles referred me, then asked him to parse the following sentence:

"A well-schooled electorate, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read Books, shall not be infringed." Mr. Brocki informed me that the sentence was overpunctuated, but that the meaning could be extracted anyway.

"A well-schooled electorate" is a nominative absolute.

"being necessary to the security of a free State" is a participial phrase modifying "electorate"

The subject (a compound subject) of the sentence is "the right of the people"

"shall not be infringed" is a verb phrase, with "not" as an adverb modifying the verb phrase "shall be infringed"

"to keep and read books" is an infinitive phrase modifying "right"

I then asked him if he could rephrase the sentence to make it clearer. Mr. Brocki said, "Because a well-schooled electorate is necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed."

I asked: can the sentence be interpreted to restrict the right to keep and read books to a well-schooled electorate-say, registered voters with a high-school diploma?" He said, "No."

I then identified my purpose in calling him, and read him the Second Amendment in full:

"A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

He said he thought the sentence had sounded familiar, but that he hadn't recognized it.

I asked, "Is the structure and meaning of this sentence the same as the sentence I first quoted you?" He said, "yes." I asked him to rephrase this sentence to make it clearer. He transformed it the same way as the first sentence: "Because a well-regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

I asked him whether the meaning could have changed in two hundred years. He said, "No."

I asked him whether this sentence could be interpreted to restrict the right to keep and bear arms to "a well-regulated militia." He said, "no." According to Mr. Brocki, the sentence means that the people \are\ the militia, and that the people have the right which is mentioned.

I asked him again to make sure:

Schulman: "Can the sentence be interpreted to mean that the right can be restricted to "a well-regulated militia?"

Brocki: "No, I can't see that."

Schulman: "Could another, professional in English grammar or linguistics interpret the sentence to mean otherwise?"

Brocki: "I can't see any grounds for another interpretation."

I asked Mr. Brocki if he would be willing to stake his professional reputation on this opinion, and be quoted on this. He said, "Yes."

At no point in the conversation did I ask Mr. Brocki his opinion on the Second Amendment, gun control, or the right to keep and bear arms.

Re:Child P0rn, just a foothold to kill free speech

[Martin Blank]

The problem is that once you require blocking at the backbone level, you're extending a single country's laws to the entire internet, which most people agree is a Bad Idea. What happens when laws collide? France and Germany have strong anti-Nazi laws; many other nations allow people to speak out as Nazis. Staying on the child pornography issue, some European nations allow nude modeling as young as 16, whereas the United States blocks most such photography for anyone under 18. Whose side does a backbone provider take in that case?

I still believe that backbone and other pure network providers should be left alone. They carry bits, and that's it. Any company that provides storage should be held unaccountable for their customers, unless and until it is brought to their attention and investigated (which should take all of a few minutes). If it's child porn or something else similarly illegal, they can shut down access, follow a procedure to provide copies of the data and any applicable logs for access to the proper authorities, and then their hands are washed of it. If they believe that a law is unjust, they can choose to fight it, but only in that case should they have any further involvement or liability.

Stupid bill goes to hell, film at 11

[billcopc]

Look people, this Bill was introduced by a member of the NDP party. Anyone remember Preston Manning ? These guys are kind of like the government's pet cat.. they make up big fusses to try and gain attention, we pet their back and give them a (cash) treat, then they go back to sleep for a few months until the next federal elections roll around.

This is just a PR stunt for the NDP, so they can come back and say "Look at us, we tried to crack down on kiddie porn, and Jean Chretien's government turned us down. Liberal is evil! NDP is your friend!".

Re:Stupid bill goes to hell, film at 11

[Trebuchet]

Anyone remember Preston Manning?

Why is Preston Manning relevant to this discussion? He was the leader of the Reform Party (NOT the NDP), until it became the Alliance Party. Both the Reform and the Alliance parties are about as right wing as you get here in Canada, while the NDP is left wing.

Will Not Become Law

[Flarenet]

I really doubt if this bill will actually become law for one simple reason: telecommunication giants like BCE (Bell Canada Enterprises) and Rogers Cable will lobby to have the bill killed, since a bill like this would make them legally and finacially liable for the actions of their subscribers. Both companies have enough problems keeping their networks stable---they don't also need the problems of trying to filter their users.

Re:Will Not Become Law

[Anonymous Coward]

And let's not forget that BCE is chummy with the Cretin in charge.
They paid his way for that foursome with Tiger Woods...its ok, there was not conflict there.
At least not as bad as the other 12 dozens of cases like McCauley, GroupeAction, Gagliano.

For you yanks out there, our system is so f**ked up that the Liberals in power can tell the country to suck eggs and still win the next election. And I mean that in every sense of the word.
The 2nd and 3rd parties in the country are regional parties (the Alliance which cant keep a name or a party leader for more than a year and the Bloc Quebecois whose sole goal is the separation of Quebec from Canada.) with not enough presence to form a government and the two other parties wont win but a handful of seats.

But the other posts were right, the private members bill has no chance of passing without govt approval. And if you think that the US congress is an embarrasment when they pass sweeping bills like the Patriot Act in less time than it takes to photocopy the paper, then you havent witnessed party loyalty in Canada.
The communists didnt keep such a tight rein on their party members.
You wanna stay in the ruling party: you vote the party line OR else.

Re:Child P0rn, just a foothold to kill free speach

[t0qer]

# it costs tax money to enact and to enforce

That is such a terrible point.

Coming from an abusive home, I have to say I am thankful for the taxes that went to my public defender, the taxes that paid for the childrens shelter, and the taxes that paid the judges salary. Now that i'm a somewhat well adjusted adult, I pay property tax on my house, income tax, all kinds of taxes. These kids that are being exploited on the internet need someone to look out for them, cause it sure as hell doesn't sound like you will.

Kids are human beings and our future, they're not some commodity that you can make that sort of statement on. Cattle, yes, kids no. Whoever gave you a mod point should be ashamed of themselves

Re:Child P0rn, just a foothold to kill free speach

[Alsee]

These kids that are being exploited on the internet

Children are abused in people's homes.

I have to say I am thankful for the taxes that went to my public defender, the taxes that paid for the childrens shelter, and the taxes that paid the judges salary.

And your public defender, childrens shelter, and judge are not on the internet, and they are not ISP's. And the money spent on them is not wasted.

We could mandate that everyone have a radio locator beacon surgicaly implanted, I guess we should do it to protect the children.

-

Unconstitutional... Offensive, incorrect. CENSOR

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashbots, you fuck this place. Your totalitarian stranglehold and god awful censorship makes me sick. You mediocritomatons, those who hold the lowest common denomiator in high regard.

This is just another example of spineless crap moderation here on /. Slashdot has denigrated. The users are little terrorists in thier own right, raising 'jihad' (to use a loser term - understood best by losers) against intellect and those without populist opinions. Your sweaty thirteen year old fingers clicking away on your Microsoft and iMac mice legislating mediocrity. Redundant? Troll? Flamebait? Whatever. Most probably vexing because its true.

Mao Tse Tung, Hitler, Stalin, Castro, Pinochet, Mussolini, Marshall Joseph Tito, Slobodan Milosevic, Idi Amin, Ho Chi Minh, Saddam Hussein, Muammar Qaddafi, Juan Peron, Ayatollah Khomeini, Ferdinand Marcos, General Suharto, Pol Pot, Fransisco Franco, and certainly the worst of the bunch, SLASHDOT's editing/moderating [read: censoring] "community"(*) ALL AGREE on ONE THING:

CENSORSHIP WORKS!

(*)Note, the word community used often on Slashdot, this is referring to a proto communist commune.

So, you busy little plebian proletariats, get busy, you have some censoring to do! FUN! Do the bidding of your fat, undisciplined masters who never subject themselves to peer review.

Good job you little neo-commies. Don't want to hear the other side, shoot the fucker in the head as an ENEMY OF THE STATE [In this case anyone who seeks to improve the sad state of /.].

A few haikus to commemorate the sucktitude:
Crack Pipe Moderators
Crack smoke wafts though air
Dumb shit moderator!
Try to suck less, please

The Humorless Moderator
Crack smoke wafts through air
Humorless moderator!
Why do you hate me?

The Proletariat
Slashdotting Commie
Moderator fears new idea!
Censor him quickly

The reason China blocked Slashdot is that when Jiang Xemin saw at how good "The Editors" at Slashdot are at suppressing the community, he knew that if more of his party members saw this degree of suppressive efficacy, he would be deposed, for the good of the people, of course, in favor of Rob Malda as the all new supreme dictator and premier of China.

I have a Gun and the Constitution [Not the urinated-on pissed-on hacked fucked up one WashingTOON thinks exists, I mean the real one, with Jefferson and Madison at my side], please, give me an excuse to use them both.

SAYINGS, quips et al:

It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried. - Sir Winston Churchill (Especially when your democratic peers twist democracy into a reason commit cencorship, to squash dissenting or unpopular opinions, and refer to them as trolls, flaimbait overrated or offtopic when they aren't any of the said)

The reason there are two senators for each state is so that one can be the designated driver. - Jay Leno.

The Constitution poses no threat to our current form of governement. (Death to those who defile the root documents of a free nation to make economic freedom Supercede Freedom! Freedom First! Free market Second!)

Occam's Razor "Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily." "Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate" "Frustra fit per plura quod potest fieri per pauciora" "Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem" Translation: " "Simple explanations are preferred to complex ones" Modern fucking translation "JUST DO IT."

Reading Slashdot at anything above -1 is like trying to put a shit filter on your ass.

Get busy moderating this down, you little pack of obedient prefects of the corrupt state! You are the vanguards of purity, and dissent is not allowed!

There are an inordinate number of +5 Funnies that wouldn't get a laugh at a hyena ranch. /. it's like what you get with any nonprofit oligarchical organization. They tend to be run like the Chinese Communist Party, i.e., they just can't abide anybody who actually wants to belong to a democratic organization. How many nonprofits hold elections where there's only one candidate? And the reason is simple. They don't want anybody getting into office who actually disagrees with them. They are, after all, agenda based organizations. Sadly, Slashdot leans just far enough in that direction that it's easy to mistake them for Linux/Open Source proponents, anti-MS zealots, believers in the superiority of the engineering mentality, or other related biases. I'm not sure this is more than a perception, but it really wouldn't bother me if someone suggested they change their name to Slantdot.

MODERATORS Crack smoke wafts though air - Dumb shit moderator - Try to suck less, please
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HAIKUS
Haiku: to the Slashfags. Fuck slash editors - The cumlicking fags they are - I shit upon them
TACO pondering GOATSE: I stare at the goat - His huge gaping ass so wide - And I want to eat
Haiku: The ancient haiku: - Flame Taco and CowboyNeal - With lame poetry.
CowboyNeal A mountain of fat, - butt cheeks jiggling like Jello. - What an odd poll choice!
CmdrTaco Watching Pokemon - With cum stuck on his goatee. - Newbie loser scum.
Stinky Kathleen Fent Cockeater Taco, - Proposing to Fent online, - I fingered her too.
Rob Malda and Kathleen Fent Chubby breasts, fat ass - Distract us from Rob's boylust. - But they both suck cock!
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GOAT I just came again - looking at the goat-see man - more kleenex required
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Humorless Moderator Crack smoke wafts through air - Humorless moderator - Why do you hate me?

Re:Child P0rn, just a foothold to kill free speach

[orthogonal]

# it costs tax money to enact and to enforce

That is such a terrible point.

Well, maybe it is a terrible point, but it's not mine. Or I should say, you missed my point.

I wasn't addressing the Canadian plan per se; I was addressing another poster's contention that pointless legislation isn't inherently bad, by explaining that any pointless legislation is bad, because it diverts resources from meaningful legislation.

I understand this is an emotional issue for you, but if you plan to contribute to the discussion, you need to read at least closely enough to discern the arguements being made.

Re:Child P0rn, just a foothold to kill free speach

[MrFredBloggs]

>By itself licensing ISP's is not a bad idea

Eh? Why? Why should it be illegal to provide information without the governments permission? Bizarre!

Re:Child P0rn, just a foothold to kill free speech

[The_Guv'na]

Martin, that's exactly what I think. :)

When I said backbone, I meant the national connection points, like Linx for example.

Oh and in case anyone non-techie was was wondering about the CP spam point, it's because the HTML email will use images stored on the CP [i.e. blocked] server, thus registering a connection attempt to that server.

One last thought about France, Germany and whoever else, having anti-nazi laws... In those countries, especially Germany, there is [I have heard] a sense of "national shame", for want of a better description, about the actions of the Nazis. I would have thought that this in itself would pretty much make anyone speaking out as or in support of Nazis social outcasts. A sort of social censorship, if you like. This is pretty much the case in America, where anyone who voices an opinion that goes against the general perception [read: What The News Corps And Government Say], even backed up by testimonies and evidence, such as John Pilger's documentry "Palestine Is Still The Issue", basically causes uproar among the GWB faithful plebs who believe what they see on the news. As one Canadian /.er roughly put it [I forget who, sorry] "I live near the border and get some of your TV channels. Is your TV state sponsored or something?" and that prretty much tells you what's going on. And his/her comment is hardly suprising.

As my .sig once said: "American freedom of speech: You can say what you want, just watch what you say."

Ali

Just for the record, by the way...

[mark-t]

Canada does not and never has offered any constitutional right to freedom of speech. Just thought you might want to know.

Re:Unconstitutional... Offensive, incorrect.

[Guspaz]

I haven't seen Miller since he was on SNL. The joke is not the most difficult to devise for yourself.

Unconstitutional... Offensive, incorrect. tsarkon

[Anonymous Coward]

you a traitor. you lie. you piss on my second amendment. i will fucking kill you with a fucking icicle, stabou through the eye with one. i want to kill you with WATER and see if you try to ban that.

FUCK YOU death death deaht. i want to kill your eyes with anicicle.

Re:Unconstitutional.tsarkon guspaz mother = whore

[Anonymous Coward]

And your mother is a fucking dyke. This link is a story about you and some fucking hermaphrodite bitch who was genetically a female and had a protracted clitoris. She is like that and a bottle for Kefir in your fucking dirty hairy fucking anus. She is a fat bitch cunt. She is a fucking dirty, whore easy virtue tomboy miss Fusty Luggs riding St. George convenient covey cat bitch scab slattern biter bat blowen dishclout trull demimondaine Laced Mutton unfortunate woman athanasian wench honey pot slut tart scotch warming pan receiver general crinkum-crankum trapes doxie romp buttock and twang moon eyed hen crackish whore mab madame ran abbess mother wasp curtizan cattle MRS WARREN commodity rantipole cunter Cyprian queer-mort auntie cunt strumpet drury-lane-vestal roger buttock-broker trollop drap balcum-rancum covent-garden-nun trumpery relish crack dell fen hedgewhore prossie strumpet harlot custom-house-goods fucking hermaphrodite whore strumpet PIG BITCH AIDS infested CHUNKY BROWN VAGINAL DISCHARGE WHORE BITCH CUNT FUCK.

There was a day when two men in the desert came to a whore hotel. They had not money but were dying of thirst. One man walked in while the other watched the camels, also weary even with the water hump. The Madame said the tomatoes lying in the bowl were very moist and could nourish the weary traveler. He ate one. [it was really a bowl full of aborted fetuses] He felt better but that tomato had bones and gills and monkey brain like blood taste, but it was watery. Having no money, the madam said go! Fuck my oldest whore and then you get WATER! He went to the oldest whore's room. Her pussy was steaming and flies were swarming and the skank rank odor was musty and thick. Her name was GUSPAZ'S MOTHER. He needed to fuck her for water, and the tomato wasn't enough. She spread her legs and begged to be fucked, a snot like mucus seeping and weeping from the festering quagmire that was her pussy. Flies buzzed. Male dogs wouldn't even sniff that crotch. He knew he needed the water, but his penis would melted away if he fucked Guspaz's Mother's cunt. He grabbed the corn on the cob off the wall, picked her scabs off of her pussy and let the infected puss run for a few seconds to lube it up, and started reaming her with it. He fucked that rancid pussy bleeding gonorrhea diarrhea encrusted sweaty infected puss hard! And then he threw the cob out the window. She begged for more reaming. He used the other cob and reamed that shit again, taking note that possibly Guspaz's Mothers ancient rancid pussy has a rather renewed feel. It seems all sorts of schmegma cheese has been dislodged and now she might be able to get dogs to play with her if she hung a steak from her neck. He reamed that pussy, his eyes fiery with thirst and the need for fresh air. He whipped the cob out the window as well, leaving the foul stricken hooker Guspaz's Mother on the bed, gagging and gasping for air. He got a gallon of water and another tomato. He came out to his friend, half passed out holding his stomach as if it were full. He anteed up a drink for his fallen sore compatriot, and he drank with a sickly look and a quiet burple. He was hallucinating. Apparently he was saying that he ate the corn cobs coming from the window. He was full and his thirst was quelched. He also noticed that Psilocybe mushroom chunks (Guspaz's Mothers pussy being a great cave to grow mushrooms in chicken shit) were on the cobs, and he enjoyed his trip on a well watered stomach.

She is a Bitch cunt

YOU FUCKING LIE, FUCKING BITCH CUNT, LIE LIKE A RUG.

She is a Fat bitch. Smelly pussy bitch. Sexless bitch. Stupid bitch. Dumb bitch. Fat fucking moustache bitch.

Excuse

[nurb432]

Internet porn is a effect, not a cause.

The reasons behind the fact the porn is available, and has a market, is what your prevention tax dollars should be spent on, not to search innocent people, 'just in case'.

Exploitation is bad, dont get me wrong, but using it as an excuse for a backdoor way to remove privacy for law abiding people in mass, is just as wrong.

Re:Unconstitutional... Offensive, incorrect. tsark

[Guspaz]

Traitor to what? I'm not American, and proud of it. Like the rest of the world is. Open your eyes and see that resentment against the US is building, and for good reason... Just look at your own behaviour and try to think if it could possibly make anyone like the US more. Didn't think so.

Re:Unconstitutional.tsarkon guspaz mother = whore

[Guspaz]

Wow, you've shown your ability to copy and paste text from a website. You American's must be such an advanced country to have mastered this difficult art! I congradulate you on your technological acheivment.

Re:Unconstitutional.tsarkon guspaz mother = whore

[Anonymous Coward]

cunt fucking cunt bullshit anus cunt fuck you asshole fuck you shit anus licker fag fuck you anus bitch asshole cunt fucker face in shit butt fucker guspaz is a nigger fucking islamic terrorist fucker cunt bitch stupid quake playing nigger fucking you suck shit from pigs asses fucking bull kyke jew fucker islamic likcer fucking islam sniffer anus pie bitch cunt piss off you nigger anus shit lick chink zipper fuck nigger in the woodpile fuck cunt piss anus fuck off piss shit fuck face. cunt fucking cunt bullshit anus cunt fuck you asshole fuck you shit anus licker fag fuck you anus bitch asshole cunt fucker face in shit butt fucker guspaz is a nigger fucking islamic terrorist fucker cunt bitch stupid quake playing nigger fucking you suck shit from pigs asses fucking bull kyke jew fucker islamic likcer fucking islam sniffer anus pie bitch cunt piss off you nigger anus shit lick chink zipper fuck nigger in the woodpile fuck cunt piss anus fuck off piss shit fuck face. cunt fucking cunt bullshit anus cunt fuck you asshole fuck you shit anus licker fag fuck you anus bitch asshole cunt fucker face in shit butt fucker guspaz is a nigger fucking islamic terrorist fucker cunt bitch stupid quake playing nigger fucking you suck shit from pigs asses fucking bull kyke jew fucker islamic likcer fucking islam sniffer anus pie bitch cunt piss off you nigger anus shit lick chink zipper fuck nigger in the woodpile fuck cunt piss anus fuck off piss shit fuck face. cunt fucking cunt bullshit anus cunt fuck you asshole fuck you shit anus licker fag fuck you anus bitch asshole cunt fucker face in shit butt fucker guspaz is a nigger fucking islamic terrorist fucker cunt bitch stupid quake playing nigger fucking you suck shit from pigs asses fucking bull kyke jew fucker islamic likcer fucking islam sniffer anus pie bitch cunt piss off you nigger anus shit lick chink zipper fuck nigger in the woodpile fuck cunt piss anus fuck off piss shit fuck face. cunt fucking cunt bullshit anus cunt fuck you asshole fuck you shit anus licker fag fuck you anus bitch asshole cunt fucker face in shit butt fucker guspaz is a nigger fucking islamic terrorist fucker cunt bitch stupid quake playing nigger fucking you suck shit from pigs asses fucking bull kyke jew fucker islamic likcer fucking islam sniffer anus pie bitch cunt piss off you nigger anus shit lick chink zipper fuck nigger in the woodpile fuck cunt piss anus fuck off piss shit fuck face. cunt fucking cunt bullshit anus cunt fuck you asshole fuck you shit anus licker fag fuck you anus bitch asshole cunt fucker face in shit butt fucker guspaz is a nigger fucking islamic terrorist fucker cunt bitch stupid quake playing nigger fucking you suck shit from pigs asses fucking bull kyke jew fucker islamic likcer fucking islam sniffer anus pie bitch cunt piss off you nigger anus shit lick chink zipper fuck nigger in the woodpile fuck cunt piss anus fuck off piss shit fuck face. cunt fucking cunt bullshit anus cunt fuck you asshole fuck you shit anus licker fag fuck you anus bitch asshole cunt fucker face in shit butt fucker guspaz is a nigger fucking islamic terrorist fucker cunt bitch stupid quake playing nigger fucking you suck shit from pigs asses fucking bull kyke jew fucker islamic likcer fucking islam sniffer anus pie bitch cunt piss off you nigger anus shit lick chink zipper fuck nigger in the woodpile fuck cunt piss anus fuck off piss shit fuck face. cunt fucking cunt bullshit anus cunt fuck you asshole fuck you shit anus licker fag fuck you anus bitch asshole cunt fucker face in shit butt fucker guspaz is a nigger fucking islamic terrorist fucker cunt bitch stupid quake playing nigger fucking you suck shit from pigs asses fucking bull kyke jew fucker islamic likcer fucking islam sniffer anus pie bitch cunt piss off you nigger anus shit lick chink zipper fuck nigger in the woodpile fuck cunt piss anus fuck off piss shit fuck face. cunt fucking cunt bullshit anus cunt fuck you asshole fuck you shit anus licker fag fuck you anus bitch asshole cunt fucker face in shit butt fucker guspaz is a nigger fucking islamic terrorist fucker cunt bitch stupid quake playing nigger fucking you suck shit from pigs asses fucking bull kyke jew fucker islamic likcer fucking islam sniffer anus pie bitch cunt piss off you nigger anus shit lick chink zipper fuck nigger in the woodpile fuck cunt piss anus fuck off piss shit fuck face. cunt fucking cunt bullshit anus cunt fuck you asshole fuck you shit anus licker fag fuck you anus bitch asshole cunt fucker face in shit butt fucker guspaz is a nigger fucking islamic terrorist fucker cunt bitch stupid quake playing nigger fucking you suck shit from pigs asses fucking bull kyke jew fucker islamic likcer fucking islam sniffer anus pie bitch cunt piss off you nigger anus shit lick chink zipper fuck nigger in the woodpile fuck cunt piss anus fuck off piss shit fuck face. cunt fucking cunt bullshit anus cunt fuck you asshole fuck you shit anus licker fag fuck you anus bitch asshole cunt fucker face in shit butt fucker guspaz is a nigger fucking islamic terrorist fucker cunt bitch stupid quake playing nigger fucking you suck shit from pigs asses fucking bull kyke jew fucker islamic likcer fucking islam sniffer anus pie bitch cunt piss off you nigger anus shit lick chink zipper fuck nigger in the woodpile fuck cunt piss anus fuck off piss shit fuck face. cunt fucking cunt bullshit anus cunt fuck you asshole fuck you shit anus licker fag fuck you anus bitch asshole cunt fucker face in shit butt fucker guspaz is a nigger fucking islamic terrorist fucker cunt bitch stupid quake playing nigger fucking you suck shit from pigs asses fucking bull kyke jew fucker islamic likcer fucking islam sniffer anus pie bitch cunt piss off you nigger anus shit lick chink zipper fuck nigger in the woodpile fuck cunt piss anus fuck off piss shit fuck face. cunt fucking cunt bullshit anus cunt fuck you asshole fuck you shit anus licker fag fuck you anus bitch asshole cunt fucker face in shit butt fucker guspaz is a nigger fucking islamic terrorist fucker cunt bitch stupid quake playing nigger fucking you suck shit from pigs asses fucking bull kyke jew fucker islamic likcer fucking islam sniffer anus pie bitch cunt piss off you nigger anus shit lick chink zipper fuck nigger in the woodpile fuck cunt piss anus fuck off piss shit fuck face. cunt fucking cunt bullshit anus cunt fuck you asshole fuck you shit anus licker fag fuck you anus bitch asshole cunt fucker face in shit butt fucker guspaz is a nigger fucking islamic terrorist fucker cunt bitch stupid quake playing nigger fucking you suck shit from pigs asses fucking bull kyke jew fucker islamic likcer fucking islam sniffer anus pie bitch cunt piss off you nigger anus shit lick chink zipper fuck nigger in the woodpile fuck cunt piss anus fuck off piss shit fuck face. cunt fucking cunt bullshit anus cunt fuck you asshole fuck you shit anus licker fag fuck you anus bitch asshole cunt fucker face in shit butt fucker guspaz is a nigger fucking islamic terrorist fucker cunt bitch stupid quake playing nigger fucking you suck shit from pigs asses fucking bull kyke jew fucker islamic likcer fucking islam sniffer anus pie bitch cunt piss off you nigger anus shit lick chink zipper fuck nigger in the woodpile fuck cunt piss anus fuck off piss shit fuck face. cunt fucking cunt bullshit anus cunt fuck you asshole fuck you shit anus licker fag fuck you anus bitch asshole cunt fucker face in shit butt fucker guspaz is a nigger fucking islamic terrorist fucker cunt bitch stupid quake playing nigger fucking you suck shit from pigs asses fucking bull kyke jew fucker islamic likcer fucking islam sniffer anus pie bitch cunt piss off you nigger anus shit lick chink zipper fuck nigger in the woodpile fuck cunt piss anus fuck off piss shit fuck face cunt fucking cunt bullshit anus cunt fuck you asshole fuck you shit anus licker fag fuck you anus bitch asshole cunt fucker face in shit butt fucker guspaz is a nigger fucking islamic terrorist fucker cunt bitch stupid quake playing nigger fucking you suck shit from pigs asses fucking bull kyke jew fucker islamic likcer fucking islam sniffer anus pie bitch cunt piss off you nigger anus shit lick chink zipper fuck nigger in the woodpile fuck cunt piss anus fuck off piss shit fuck face. cunt fucking cunt bullshit anus cunt fuck you asshole fuck you shit anus licker fag fuck you anus bitch asshole cunt fucker face in shit butt fucker guspaz is a nigger fucking islamic terrorist fucker cunt bitch stupid quake playing nigger fucking you suck shit from pigs asses fucking bull kyke jew fucker islamic likcer fucking islam sniffer anus pie bitch cunt piss off you nigger anus shit lick chink zipper fuck nigger in the woodpile fuck cunt piss anus fuck off piss shit fuck face. cunt fucking cunt bullshit anus cunt fuck you asshole fuck you shit anus licker fag fuck you anus bitch asshole cunt fucker face in shit butt fucker guspaz is a nigger fucking islamic terrorist fucker cunt bitch stupid quake playing nigger fucking you suck shit from pigs asses fucking bull kyke jew fucker islamic likcer fucking islam sniffer anus pie bitch cunt piss off you nigger anus shit lick chink zipper fuck nigger in the woodpile fuck cunt piss anus fuck off piss shit fuck face. cunt fucking cunt bullshit anus cunt fuck you asshole fuck you shit anus licker fag fuck you anus bitch asshole cunt fucker face in shit butt fucker guspaz is a nigger fucking islamic terrorist fucker cunt bitch stupid quake playing nigger fucking you suck shit from pigs asses fucking bull kyke jew fucker islamic likcer fucking islam sniffer anus pie bitch cunt piss off you nigger anus shit lick chink zipper fuck nigger in the woodpile fuck cunt piss anus fuck off piss shit fuck face. cunt fucking cunt bullshit anus cunt fuck you asshole fuck you shit anus licker fag fuck you anus bitch asshole cunt fucker face in shit butt fucker guspaz is a nigger fucking islamic terrorist fucker cunt bitch stupid quake playing nigger fucking you suck shit from pigs asses fucking bull kyke jew fucker islamic likcer fucking islam sniffer anus pie bitch cunt piss off you nigger anus shit lick chink zipper fuck nigger in the woodpile fuck cunt piss anus fuck off piss shit fuck face.

Re:constitutional... Offensive, incorrect. tsarkon

[Anonymous Coward]

stop asking us for money then fuckheads. all you fucking "resentful" counties sure the fuck sign up for loans.

idiot.

yeah, thanks for WW2. nice apprecation. fucking asshole. 300,000 americans died in WW2 [we killed 4 million krauts, 1.4 million japs no thanks to you fucks], 40,000 canadians did as well. The probably all volunteered while being sick of the idiots in Canada not doing aything.

And thanks Canada, for seeling breeder reactor parts to north korea. thanks a fucking lot

Re:Unconstitutional.tsarkon guspaz mother = whore

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi, Guspaz! Before you shit on American advancement, you might want to spell "congratulate" and "achievement" correctly. Looks like McGill passed you up this time around. And after McGill, not many schools left to go to. Nice job, sweet try. Now go back to being a good little socialist and watch some TV telling you how good Chrétien is and sell some more nuclear reactor parts to countries seeking to obtain WMD. And I like your F-18's you guys use in your Air Force.

Re:UnconstitutionalTry learning English vermillion

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, you little overzealous weirdo. You might want to check out those English schools so you can learn how to spell ridiculous. You and your little microcosm specific view on life are obnoxious, stupid and largely irrelevant. Nothing you say here is general case. It is unilaterally centric to you. You are the most self centered ignorant sheltered person and you perpetuate garbage here. Your posts are a testament to your moronic self centric view on the world, you talk about everything in reference to Canada, Québec, Canadian dollars - you name it. It is annoying. Please review what you post here before posting it for you own sake. Anyone with a brain has a field day laughing at the detritus and cruft you leave behind. And one can tell beyond a doubt you are not technical in any serious way or programmatically inclined. Most likely you are living at home with your parents, or a subsidized existence, you like cheap things over good things because you can not afford good things; you are a gamer and a user. You are neither a progenitor of new and useful code nor a creator of useful things. You are on the bottom rung to the computing public and it is painfully apparent.

Re:Unconstitutional.tsarkon guspaz mother = whore

[Guspaz]

McGill passed up a college student, surprise surprise. Last time I checked you had to have a DEC to go to university.

Maybe some people understand that one's grammar on troll-infested messageboards is not even remotely the most important thing in the world. You are obviously not one of them. If it is your whim that I use a spell-checker before every post, you can piss off.

Re:Unconstitutional.tsarkon guspaz mother = whore

[Anonymous Coward]

Man you are a frothing little snarky ankle-biting dog. I have become cognizant of two types of Canadians. There are those who are amicable towards the USA are we just accept that countries are neither good nor evil, they just are, and the only thing you can do is to make peace with one another on the local level, and hopefully that goodwill will manifest itself on the macro scale. Then there are those elitist idiots such as you that think they are better than everyone else and are largely unproven, and who have no self actualized or made peace with themselves or their existence and have to viciously attack people and cultures and countries with provincial viewpoints. Canada has to spend barely anything on a defense budget because they know in reality we would never attack. But your rhetoric sometimes is irritating and it sounds more full of crap than usual. But the budget tells all. If you really though of the US as an aggressor you might start spending more money on defense than harboring terrorists at us and having a few flaming idiot cities have anti US sentiment. I like Canada's open door policy. It so nice to know that if I break any laws, murder people and plan to commit acts of mass destruction I have a safe home in the world. It's comforting, all on the same continent! Land of the free, home of the brave to the south, and home of fugitives and men on the lam to the north!

The USA has 10 times Canada's population, and probably 10 times the number of problems. Despite no military spending and feverishly supplying really, really shady nations with arms and nuclear reactor parts and having apparently far less corruption in politics, your GDP is 27,700, 8,600 [$36,300]. Clearly you collectively are less useful to yourselves than the US is. And a larger percentage of your income is taxed creating even less disposable income. Which is probably something that explains your repeated moronic love of cheap crap like shitty networks cards [you claimed a D-Link gigabit card was "good" lol] or cheap ass IDE hard drives. The US currency is the metric of all others, as is the US economy. I detect that in reality economists around the world know that the US is fairly balanced when compared to other former and emerging superpowers across the sea of time, and that working together to ensure economic growth around the world is what the US wants, and what the ROW wants. It is clear that emerging economies are overseas but other nation's inability to separate religious extremism or extremist ideology [communism, dictatorship, military rule] or to come up with sound economic policy is not the US's fault. But the US does need the solicitation of others for the economy to grow. Believe me; if the US economy could grow without dealing with some of the fucking scum we deal with, we would close up shop to the outside world leaving them kicking, begging and screaming for trickle down and our intervention [sounds like WW2, isolationist until Europe begged for our help]. It is not easy to just not crush little bastards like a bug when you can. When you are right, or are ordained to carry the scepter of power until you lost touch with your ideals. People act as if the US didn't properly earn the position the US has right now. Truly there are problems with ideology in the US political system, and if you weren't so stupid you would realize there are political cycles in the US that lead to left and right wing administrations taking power, with periods of aggression and permittivity. Better than the evil empire tact of the former USSR, which Canada was cuddling up with the US for any hopes of defense in the advent of a Soviet attack. oh how times of changed.

Something about the white trash "problem" in the US. At least the US's poor white trash are improperly educated, do jobs meant for improperly educated people and think they live in the greatest country on earth because they have lots of disposable income compared to other trash in other countries and can burn it on beer, watching TV, eating at McDonalds and buying hunting guns to blow deer-head off. In your country, you are poor white trash, or even worse, French white trash, and you are slightly better educated. At first this seems like a great system, to have everyone be educated (term used loosely, you have been educated enough to be dangerous, you are pseudo intellectual at best), and you find yourself doing menial white trash things at work and getting paid shit for it. I know several companies such as Oracle that hire Canadian workers at a fraction of the cost of a US workers, you are a form of cheap labor and US corporations [and other foreign companies] subsidize your life, and yet you still get pissy. Not everyone can work on high margin items like nuclear reactor parts or arms proliferation to the enemies of the very country that provides your defense. Anyways, your slightly over educated mediocritomaton self gets restless and pissy when you realize your compensation sucks and you lash out blaming not your ridiculous fiscal situation and other rudimentary problems in the societal structure but everyone else.

Please, fuck off Guspaz. Countries are neither good nor evil, they just are. People just are. Your feelings of resentment are your own and you would be surprised that in times of trials and tribulations Heroes arise and to do the right thing. You would be one of those fucking weasels that wouldn't pick a side and have heart. And there is a special place in hell [in a non sectarian sense, in remembrance, in the time thereafter life, your soul is stained] for those who have not the spine to see things one way or another. Have your cake and eat it too, but I doubt you will run a successful marriage, have the gumption to reproduce or if you do you will be a horrible father, and society will take care of your offspring so that they can be as shitty of a human being as you are. I'm sorry your parents didn't do a good job with you. Carry on the cycle, carry on.