Slashdot Mirror


Microsoft's Political Lobbying Record

pierreduFwench writes "With the U.S. national elections just around the corner, you may find this interesting: Opensecrets.org, a website focusing on 'Responsive Politics' recently published lobbying and donations info for the 2002 elections (to date). You can see the breakdown of Microsoft's individual dossier here. Also, looking at the 'Top Donations by Industry', you may notice that Microsoft is, conspicuously, the only entry under 'Computers/Internet.'" Very interesting graphs.

59 of 319 comments (clear)

  1. corporate power is out of control by drDugan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    what more evidence do people need?

    huge organizations designed to aggregate money with all the rights and abilities as citizens. how can the interests of individuals even come close to being recognized in an arena like that?

    they can't.

    1. Re:corporate power is out of control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I have to disagree. They are not abusing power nor infringing on the rights of individual citizens. The graphs show huge amounts of money flowing to both parties. Now I would be more worried if almost all the money went to Republicans (as the trend is slowly turning), but regardless it is within their rights to promote their interests. It is neither immoral nor illegal. If you, specifically, were a major player in an industry and controlled billions of dollars, I would hope that you promoted your own interests. It's capitalism, no more, no less.

    2. Re:corporate power is out of control by nomadic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The sad thing is we're not talking huge sums of money here; 9.5 million, spent on multiple candidates? It's because of the small amounts of money that actually get spent that I don't really think there's much quid pro quo involved. The way the lobbyists really get things done is simply through access. They get more access than us, and can argue their case directly to the lawmaker, while we peons have to hope that some of our letters get through their staffs to them, or some non-profit org marshals enough resources to argue their case.

    3. Re:corporate power is out of control by drDugan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree it is within their (a company) rights to promote their interests. The point is that a huge group of people, organized to aggregate cash -- in a world where money = = interests -- these groups can push their interests so much more effectively than any individuals, even well organized individuals. I am not saying it is immoral or illegal. (put another way... a bit of cash for each sale of windows goes toward greasing wheels in politics to, say... keep the monopoly together.) It's just that the interests of individuals and the interests of corporations are typically not aligned completely. the current system puts these different interests in direct competition, and because of the disparity in dollars, the corporate interests almost always win out. the vague notion that our elected officials are in place to make life better for the people is the only reason corporate interests don't win out entirely.

    4. Re:corporate power is out of control by ratamacue · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Keep in mind, the root of the problem is still government. Microsoft (or any private corporation) are not the ones who determine which laws pass and which ones do not. They cannot force a politician to pass any law; they can only attempt to bribe the politician with money. Whether or not the politician accepts the bribe is a decision made by the politician, not Microsoft. Government holds the ultimate power, and therefore the root of the problem lies in government. If we really want to address this practice, the only way to do it is to address the policies of government.

      With that said, the only sure-fire way to reduce the practice of private corporations bribing politicians is to limit the powers of government. The smaller the government, the less incentive private corporations have to try to take advantage of it.

    5. Re:corporate power is out of control by drDugan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Personal attacks aside, I would agree that it _is_ the responsibility of every citizen to VOTE WITH THEIR DOLLARS . The problem is that it doesn't work very well, and not just because each individual only contributes a small part. The drives and pressures in society that get people to buy things are independent of the uses to which corporations apply their profits.

      I would also agree that money does not grow on trees, however the only corporation that 'makes' money (in the US) is the Federal Reserve Bank. All the other corporations take money in exchange for goods and services. It is a subtle point, but one people should keep in mind. The money supply is a zero-sum game. I think that the assessment of 'useful' that you make is of limited scope and context. Do humans really need faster palm pilots? Is it enough to conclude that just because a company can get money for something, then it is an appropriate use of human time and effort?

      I think not.

    6. Re:corporate power is out of control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Nonsense. Have you ever owned your own business?


      Dealing with employees who accept bribes is very
      easy. You replace them! You don't just close the shop to solve
      to solve this type of problem.


      Same thing for crooked politians. Replace them. Closing
      down the government, or yielding power to big
      business, are proposals advanced by big business
      so that they sieze powers currently owned by the citizens.

    7. Re:corporate power is out of control by plague3106 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Capitalism isn't the right way to run a government though. People that make the most money get to determine the laws and rights of others? I don't thinks so.

    8. Re:corporate power is out of control by Sarcasmooo! · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But representatives only take time to meet with lobbyists when they know that lobbyist represents and organization that is funding their campaign, and keeping them in power. They don't have to meet with every lobbyist. So you can hire a lobbyist, or we can all geek ourselves together and hire a lobbying firm, and the reps are still going to choose to spend there available time in other ways, rather than listen to a pitch from someone who can't afford to payroll their re-election.

    9. Re:corporate power is out of control by Hott+of+the+World · · Score: 3, Funny

      IF you think for one second that 9.5 million dollars is NOT A HUGE SUM of money, I would be happy to see you carry it FOR A MILE!

      Sorry knee jerk reaction, politically speaking, you're right, 9.5 is not a lot, but damn, I'd sure love to have that kinda money just to push MY idealogies.

      DAMN THAT CAPSLOCK KEY!

      --
      | - | - |
    10. Re:corporate power is out of control by SideshowBob · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So why even bother with the pretense of a Democracy? Just let the mercantile class run things. Hey, it worked for 16th century Italy, right?

      Here is a free clue for you: what "capitalist" society (as you put it) is a multi-national corporation a member of?

      I honestly think the founding fathers would roll in their graves if they could hear their decendants :-(

    11. Re:corporate power is out of control by Mac+Degger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I cannot agree with you for one simple reason. Corporations get the same rights as individual persons, but they lack one very important, if not crucial aspect of being a person: morals.

      Sure, corporations have acharter, but that states nothing more than it's one purpose: make money for the shareholder. And that does not a code of ethics make. I would argue that if you lack any form of morals or ethics, you cannot and should not be treated as a human being. Therefore giving corporations 'human rights' is rediculous.

      --
      -- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
  2. Interesting... by dogas · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I like how all this lobbying started right about when the anti-trust suits started rolling in. Hell, they even set up a "Washington lobbying office". It seems that it might have worked, considering no one really knows what their 'punishment', if any, is.

    --
    'When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.' -HST
    1. Re:Interesting... by dattaway · · Score: 5, Interesting

      In America, you can buy your freedom. Someone I was related to was a dumbass for using his chemistry degree to set up a nice drug lab. He was caught, because of his antisocial antics disturbed his neighbors and they called the help of the EPA, which called the FBI, which called the DEA, which called state marshalls...

      His lawyer stated it would cost him $40,000 to guarantee him his freedom. Interestingly, one of his "partners" happened to be a judges son, who got off free. Since my uncle didn't have a defense fund, he is now thankfully serving time and is not using his abilities to further stockpile his toxic waste dump (I'm not sure why it takes *boxes* of different cyanide compounds to manufacture E.)

      My own experience with lawyers many years ago was getting out of 5 nice speeding tickets in one year. $1055 for combined legal costs to maintain my perfect driving record. I would learn from my misdeads others would spend money to work the legal system for their vices. I feel ashamed for my experience, but I learned this is a true way of life for others.

    2. Re:Interesting... by Osty · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My own experience with lawyers many years ago was getting out of 5 nice speeding tickets in one year. $1055 for combined legal costs to maintain my perfect driving record. I would learn from my misdeads others would spend money to work the legal system for their vices. I feel ashamed for my experience, but I learned this is a true way of life for others.

      I don't understand what you find wrong with doing what you did. You spent $1055 to save yourself untold thousands of dollars in artificially inflated insurance fees over the next several years after your tickets. Is it then not worthwhile to use the system as it was designed -- you're innocent until proven guilty, and if your lawyer is good enough, they can't prove you guilty. Considering speeding tickets are designed mainly as a source of income for the government, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever fighting those tickets. (many speeding tickets are issued when there's no "unsafe driving" happening other than maybe a bit of excess speed -- why not ticket the people trying to read the morning paper or put on their makeup during their commute?) I pay more than enough in taxes, so why should I also pay for speeding tickets, and the increase in insurance rates (which goes towards buying radar and laser speed detection equipment for law enforcement agencies, to increase the number of speeding tickets issued, to increase the insurance premiums, to buy more equipment, etc)?


      People joke about lawyers being scum, and just out to get your money, and just generally being a bad sort of person. However, I for one would not like to live in a world without lawyers. When the government can trump up anything to get you to pay up (oh no! I was going some arbitrary speed higher than some arbitrarily set speed limit, on a road that can handle some speed higher than what I was going, in a car that can handle the same, with no traffic around me at all!), I consider lawyers the last line of defense between me and the money-grubbing politicians.

  3. Surprised? by Sean+Trembath · · Score: 3, Funny

    I don't think it comes as any great shock that Microsoft is doing all they can to get their hads in politicians pockets.
    Microsoft walks and talks like a big tobacco company. All that's missing is Bill Gates in cowboy boots.
    It's interesting how the tobacco companies (also huge lobbyists) ancestors owned slaves, whereas Microsoft has enslaved the human race with their craptacular software.

  4. Under the table? by umStefa · · Score: 5, Interesting

    IF microsoft is spending 3 million in 2002 on contributions, how much are they spending on unreported little perks (a notebook to "try out" for a couple of years, fully functional "demo" copy of software, etc)?

    --
    Technology is most abused by the very people it was created to help
    1. Re:Under the table? by mcubed · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't doubt that this kind of still happens to a limited degree, but I think the degree is very limited and has been for quite sometime. It simply isn't worth the risk of getting caught, and members of Congress know how easy it is to get caught accepting a gift like an expensive notebook or a car. I know an editor who persuaded the publishing company he works for to send complimentary copies of a newly published book to every senator. (The subject of the book pertained to legislation pending in Congress.) Almost all the books were returned with gracious letters thanking the editor for his interest, but explaining that the publisher's price for the book exceeded the amount Congresspeople are allowed to accept as gifts. Many expressed support for the position taken by the book's author (which was well-known and obvious from the book's title), some said they were interested in the author's arguments and would purchase a copy (probably a tax write-off anyway!), most had no comments one way or the other.

      There are plenty of perfectly legitimate ways for Congresspeople to get perks without accepting under-the-table gifts.

      Michael

      --
      "No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality;..."
  5. So where's the report on KPCB? by spectecjr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So where's the report on KPCB?

    The venture capital firm behind Netscape, Oracle, Sun, Apple, etc etc etc etc...?

    Until halfway through the antitrust trial, Microsoft's donations were nearly negligible. Compare and contrast that with the above. Don't forget to include the members of the boards of directors of these companies as individuals, as well as their spouses and immediate family when looking up their donations.

    You may be surprised. Microsoft is very new at this game; Silicon Valley has been doing it for YEARS.

    Simon

    --
    Coming soon - pyrogyra
  6. And the winner is... by meta-monkey · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm surprised that MS was the focus of this story. According to the website, other computer companies donated more than MS did. Yeah, MS was the only one under "Computers/Internet," but AOL Time Warner is on there under "TV/Movies/Music." AT&T, Bellsouth, Verizon...they're also internet providers, and all four of those companies gave more than MS did.

    MS clocked in with $9.5M, where AOL spent $12M, and AT&T clocked in with a whopping $17.5M!! Man, I wish they'd lobby me for something...

    --
    We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    1. Re:And the winner is... by drDugan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I stridently disagree. Just because we don't have a law expressly that forbids action X -- that does not make X ok, moral, or helpful.

      The assumption that laws are the only way to get people to act decently is the reason we have such a bloated, ineffective legal system.

      You are also under-informed to suggest changing the constitution. The assumption that corporations have rights as people, and that money = speech, are nowhere there, but rather in many, much more recent rulings.

    2. Re:And the winner is... by spongman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "the right of the people peaceably to assemble" sounds to me like corporations fit that description...

  7. Where the power lies. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It is a sad thing that all the real power in this country lies in the big companies, ie, Microsoft, Tobacco companies, Enron, and so on. They are the ones that decide what passes and what doesn't. That's why us, the average joe, has to put up with stupid laws like the DMCA. This is a sad, but true development.

    1. Re:Where the power lies. by Stonehand · · Score: 3, Interesting

      - The Microsoft anti-trust mess still appears to be continuing. Inability to make a suit goes away is not a sign of power.

      - The tobacco companies got hit with a /huge/ lawsuit, and had to surrender an extremely large settlement. And, they're /still/ being nailed with lawsuits from longtime smokers (which will only increase if a certain curious model of asbestos lawsuit succeeds -- some plaintiffs are suing an asbestos firm not for suffering actual ailments, but merely because exposure imposed risk of developing such ailments). Having to pay out billions and billions, and then further being raped by politicians raising cigarette taxes (discouraging your customers) and bans of smoking in bars (ditto) is not a sign of power.

      - Ken Lay should probably not be planning any trips out of the country soon, because the heat isn't off. Neither, for that matter, should Bernie Ebbers, who has gotten to see executive after executive cooperate with authorities to save their own skins.

      When was the last time a government department went bankrupt and had to fold due to chronic inefficiency? When was the last time a high-ranking civil servant was sacked due to incompetence or malfeasance -- keeping in mind that both Reagan and Clinton served a full eight years despite their questionable records? How many companies could basically ignore the need to have a budget, or survive that long with bozos who care more about popularity than efficacy?

      --
      Only the dead have seen the end of war.
  8. Microsoft is not the problem by NotAnotherReboot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The American Federation of Teachers ($15,512,224
    ) is throwing in much more than Microsoft is on lobbying efforts ($9,468,287).

    And look at how lopsided their contributions are toward democrats. They obviously have special interests- this needs a lot of attention from the media!

    "Microsoft is, conspicuously, the only entry under 'Computers/Internet.'"" Microsoft also conspicuously has tens of billions of dollars in cash to sit on. Heaven forbid that they have any interests in politics.

    And this is interesting how?

  9. Sadly its a rational move for MS by Aliks · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A company is bound to invest where it thinks its future revenues will lie.

    In this case the future revenues will come from legislation protecting Intellectual Property monopolies. Sad but true. Every million dollars spent protecting interests in DC will return manyfold millions of dollars in terms of higher prices for product.

    Maybe there is a ray of hope though. The so-called robber barons of the railroads, steel, shipping and oil back at the end of the 19th Century were eventually reined in. I wonder why they didn't lobby the hell out of government at the time, and if they did, why did they lose the battle against anti-trust legislation?

    1. Re:Sadly its a rational move for MS by Odinson · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I wonder why they didn't lobby the hell out of government at the time, and if they did, why did they lose the battle against anti-trust legislation?"

      They did lobby and won most battles, just not all.. The side effect was for our economy to gear up for a very deep cleansing cycle. We call it the great depression.

      Capitalism in a democracy (or republic) can operate with only so much overhead (corruption) and then it cleanses itself. This happens every sixty years or so. The greater the corruption, the deeper the recession/depression. Every single MSFT or AOL or PMs lobbying successes equals a larger failure country wide. Eventually (any remotely) economic law will be total spegetti code and we will need an FDR to fix it.

      Lets hope the voting public realises this before they vote/relect any candidate without strict views on campain finance. Soft money may be gone after this election, but the election process is far from fair.

  10. Note the change in party loyalty by sam_handelman · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A decade ago, Chairman Bill was minor league, but decidedly democratic, by a 3:1 margin. This was back when Big Blue was the great enemy, and Microsoft wrote cool Mac software (oh, yeah, and DOS.)

    As his power base has grown, and as he has become more entrenched and established, he has increasingly favored the Republicans. Of course, the decision of the Clinton white house to trustbust him can't have helped.

    --
    The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
  11. This came up during HDTV standards debates by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I remember years ago there was a big flap in the computer press about how the leading candidates for HDTV standards that the FCC was considering would not work well with computers.

    The reason for this was that the broadcasters and the TV manufacturers and pretty much everyone else remotely interested in HDTV standards had tons of lobbyists working full time to push their interests, except for companies in the computer industry. A couple computer companies had a couple of part-time lobbyists working on this, or something pathetic like that.

    Microsoft is not doing something bad here. The ones doing something bad are all the other companies that should be on that list but aren't.

  12. Top recipient: Jay Inslee by jukal · · Score: 5, Interesting

    According the site Jay Inslee has got most from MSFT, total of $237,400 - nice money already. He is one of the persons behind the "Internet Radio Fairness Act" - "designed to make the copyright royalty arbitration process more fair for smaller entities." What else has he been involved with?

  13. The Open Source community needs a PAC by AELinuxGuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Perhaps we already have one (correct me if you know), but it seems that a lot of important tech issues are being decided in Washington by the highest bidder. Two things get action in the U.S. political system...money and votes. They pay attention to groups of people - like the steel workers of america - because they vote uniformly in mass and all contribute financially to their PAC. There are way more of us (the open source community) than many of these unions...we just need organization. I'd be more than willing to give the amount I owe in taxes each year to the Free Software Foundation to balance off as a tax credit if they acted as a PAC for our cause.

    1. Re:The Open Source community needs a PAC by Fnkmaster · · Score: 4, Informative
      This is a fabulous idea. We are pretty good at organizing, very politically opinionated on certain issues that may not be of interest to the general population but affect all of our lives, and we have a rather high mean income, so we could all afford to give a bit of money.


      Wait a second, isn't the EFF supposed to do this already? I guess the EFF spreads their efforts out a bit, and perhaps fails to focus strongly enough on the legislative branch, and lobbying Congress to pass bills more friendly to the technology community. The EFF seems to get stuck in the judicial process, relying on the admittedly somewhat more rights-friendly judiciary to save our asses. Frankly, I don't think the Free Software Foundation, which you mention, is the kind of organization I would want representing my point of view in the political arena, though I think they have done a lot of great work to promote Free Software. I think we could accomplish a lot with an organization that existed to promote legislation friendly to the cause of freedom online, that had a pro-Free Software stance without being radically dogmatic.


      In the meantime, why not donate to EFF?

  14. Interesting chart by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It completely reaffirms why I can't stand the Republican party.

    Look at the charts that are overwhelmingly Republican. Tobacco, Oil, Big Business.

    Now look at the charts that are overwhelmingly Democrat. Individual Rights, Workforce Rights.

    Realistically both parties completely suck, but I still don't know how anyone with any common sense or sense of social Justice can be a Republican.

  15. Wow, and they still pale in comparison.... by JohnTheFisherman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...to the grotesque and lopsided amount of influence big labor has. But wait, they're for the "little guy" just like the Democrats. Hah. Vote Libertarian.

    http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/

    Blue Chip Investors
    Top Donor Dossiers

    Here you'll find total contributions for the 100 biggest givers in American politics since 1989--information that exists nowhere else. Read the full report. Read about our methodology.

    * View top organizational givers by rank
    * View top organizational givers by alphabetical order
    * View top individual contributors from these organizations

    Search for an organization by name:

    Top 10 donors:
    American Fedn of State, County & Municipal Employees $30,671,426
    National Education Assn $21,116,383
    National Assn of Realtors $20,414,385
    Assn of Trial Lawyers of America $19,931,717
    Philip Morris $18,951,671
    Teamsters Union $18,858,733
    Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers $18,394,547
    American Medical Assn $18,377,814
    Service Employees International Union $17,647,346
    Communications Workers of America $17,597,372

  16. Contributions should be illegal by dh003i · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Both soft-money and hard-money contributions to either political party should be flat-out illegal.

    With this kind of money flying around, there's no way in hell that the Senate and Congress will represent the people, and be for and held accountable to the people. They're for the corporations and accountable to them, as well as other money-laden organizations.

    Money being given to politicians for political objectives is disturbing, no matter who does it. Its obviously disturbing when its MS and the Tobacco companies giving money to politicians, especially when the government's supposed to be trialing MS for being an illegal monopoly.

    Its also disturbing when teachers unions donate 15M dollars. Sure, some of that goes to make sure that the teaching of evolution isn't outlawed in schools. But most of it goes towards protecting bad teachers who should be fired. Thanks to fanatical tenure terms enforced by teachers unions, teachers who should be fired aren't. Point in case, Rita Wilson. That child-molesting bitch sexually harassed, sexually assaulted, and violated the privacy of at least twenty teenaged girls entering a school dance. Another great one is the case around Brandy Blackbeard, where some retarded teacher accused her of "casting a hex on him" and she was suspended.

    Contributions to politicians from organizations are just thinly veiled bribes. In a democracy, everyone is supposed to be equal, but such contributions make that impossible. Ideas and laws are propogated not based upon how many voting citizens like them or how good they are, but on who has the most money to give to politicians. Point of case, the DMCA, and the 1998 Mickey Mouse Copyright Extention Act.

    1. Re:Contributions should be illegal by Maul · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not to mention teachers who flat out suck and should be fired for that.

      I had a Spanish teacher in High School who didn't teach jack. He would spend most of the class period asking the students "trivia" questions for extra points. Maybe once or twice a week we would crack open the Spanish book and attempt to learn something. There were hardly any homework assignments or tests at all in the class.

      Yet, very few students complained because he gave almost everyone in the class a free grade of "A." The only students who complained were the one or two people who actually wanted to learn something.

      When I privately asked an administrator if they knew what was happening in the class, they said they did. When I asked why they didn't fire the bum for not teaching what he was being paid to teach (or at least get on his case), they replied they couldn't because of some nonsense with the teacher's union and "tenure."

      Seriously, it seems like something really warped is going on in schools, and I wouldn't put it past all the teacher's union "contributions" that are often made against the will of many teachers themselves to state and federal legislatures.

      --

      "You spoony bard!" -Tellah

  17. Big difference. by BoomerSooner · · Score: 3, Funny

    People choose to use MS. No one chose to be a slave.

    1. Re:Big difference. by Mac+Degger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I dare you to start working in a big corporation which uses Windows and ask for a Linux machine.

      So where's you're choice now?

      --
      -- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
  18. The FEC Database has errors: Quality of Disclosure by stefanlasiewski · · Score: 3, Informative

    Notice how the site posts the following disclosure at the bottom of many of the Congressional query pages:

    Quality of Disclosure:

    Quality of disclosure data has been removed from the site because of errors in the Federal Election Commission's database. The FEC has informed us that it will not supply updated disclosure data until mid-October. We will post new figures on disclosure quality as soon as possible.


    Convenient timing, eh? Elections are November 5th, and the FEC won't supply the updated information until "mid-October". That's probably not enough time for opensecrets to input the data before the elctions.

    If the FEC supplied that information on a timely basis, I might be able to make a more educated decision on November 5th.

    Suspicious timing, if you ask me.

    --
    "Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
  19. No, government power is out of control by Crag · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The corporations have no police or armies of their own to speak of (thankfully), and any power they have is given to them by a government which is available to the highest bidder(s). If that government didn't have the kind of power it does, the corporations would have to create their own force, which would alienate their customers.

    It's a myth that the US government holds back the corporations and forces them to play fair. For at least a hundred years it has done the opposite. The only times it every does anything right is when some wealthy person or group pays it to.

    Unfortunately, there is no graceful way to change this situation. Try to change the government and the corporations work against us. Try to change the corporations and the government works against us. It will come to a head this century.

    1. Re:No, government power is out of control by kir · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'm seriously considering deporting to a safer eu country before 2020 or so.

      I'm guessing you whackos hang out at kuro5hin too.

      --
      3cx.org - A truly bad website.
    2. Re:No, government power is out of control by hype7 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      next time you hear the words "campaign reform" or "finance reform" in the mouth of a political representative, don't just pass it off as a unimportant/fringe issue. It matters, nowhere more so than in the United States. I don't live over there, but I sure as hell would have loved to have seen John McCain get up and put his campaign finance reform measures through. It would have cleaned up the politics of your country, and done so much good for the entire world - because decisions made in the US (often very much influenced by lobbyists) reverberate around the rest of the globe.

      -- james

  20. opensecrets information not complete by stefanlasiewski · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Microsoft is, conspicuously, the only entry under 'Computers/Internet

    Hold on to those conclusions cowboy, just because they are the only entry does NOT mean that they are the only technology contributor.

    Opensecrets is a GREAT site, and I really appreciate their efforts[1], but their database is far from complete. I've been browsing the site over the last few days, and I notice that Opensecrets has information for many of the Democratic congressional candidates, but not for many Republican candidates.

    Check out the race in my District. We have information for Barbara Lee, for the other two candidates, it says "No reports on record for this candidate. ". Not a good measure, yet.

    Does this mean that Democrat$ receive more money then Republican$? NO!

    It simply means that, for whatever reason, Opensecrets has the data for the Democrats, but has less information for the Republicans.

    [1]: So valuable that I donated money to them, even through I just got laid off. YOU SHOULD DONATE TOO).

    --
    "Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
  21. anthropomorphic powers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Corporations are neither human beings nor are they citizens. The notion that they are entitled to donate money to a politician is ridicules. If corporations are allowed to donate money to politicians or political parties (which they are) then so should other none citizens and inanimate objects like, rocks, dirt, houses, house pets, books, computers, etc. Corporations are inanimate objects that have been granted (unfairly) anthropomorphic powers because they are the possessions of the 'super rich'. As long as this situation is allowed to endure the US should not be considered a democracy.

    1. Re:anthropomorphic powers by AvitarX · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Does it really make a difference if they can donate or not?

      I mean if Bill Gates got a 2 million dollor bonous (or not, he has plenty o dough) and then donated 2 million dollors to campaign x, does anybody doubt where it came from?

      I don't think you can prevent this from happening without capping spending to a certain amount, and you can't do that without taking away free speech. It's a bitch, but that is all there is too it.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
  22. Re:Further proof by jamie · · Score: 3, Insightful
    "Sweden middle class has a lower standard of living than the lowest earning group in US - Blacks."

    Conservatives keep claiming this. It's been debunked before. Here's the best example, from p. 5 of Paul Krugman's excellent piece "For Richer":

    Let me use the example of Sweden, that great conservative bete noire.

    A few months ago the conservative cyberpundit Glenn Reynolds made a splash when he pointed out that Sweden's G.D.P. per capita is roughly comparable with that of Mississippi -- see, those foolish believers in the welfare state have impoverished themselves! Presumably he assumed that this means that the typical Swede is as poor as the typical resident of Mississippi, and therefore much worse off than the typical American.

    But life expectancy in Sweden is about three years higher than that of the U.S. Infant mortality is half the U.S. level, and less than a third the rate in Mississippi. Functional illiteracy is much less common than in the U.S.

    How is this possible? One answer is that G.D.P. per capita is in some ways a misleading measure. Swedes take longer vacations than Americans, so they work fewer hours per year. That's a choice, not a failure of economic performance. Real G.D.P. per hour worked is 16 percent lower than in the United States, which makes Swedish productivity about the same as Canada's.

    But the main point is that though Sweden may have lower average income than the United States, that's mainly because our rich are so much richer. The median Swedish family has a standard of living roughly comparable with that of the median U.S. family: wages are if anything higher in Sweden, and a higher tax burden is offset by public provision of health care and generally better public services. And as you move further down the income distribution, Swedish living standards are way ahead of those in the U.S. Swedish families with children that are at the 10th percentile -- poorer than 90 percent of the population -- have incomes 60 percent higher than their U.S. counterparts. And very few people in Sweden experience the deep poverty that is all too common in the United States. One measure: in 1994 only 6 percent of Swedes lived on less than $11 per day, compared with 14 percent in the U.S.

    The moral of this comparison is that even if you think that America's high levels of inequality are the price of our high level of national income, it's not at all clear that this price is worth paying. The reason conservatives engage in bouts of Sweden-bashing is that they want to convince us that there is no tradeoff between economic efficiency and equity -- that if you try to take from the rich and give to the poor, you actually make everyone worse off. But the comparison between the U.S. and other advanced countries doesn't support this conclusion at all. Yes, we are the richest major nation. But because so much of our national income is concentrated in relatively few hands, large numbers of Americans are worse off economically than their counterparts in other advanced countries.

    You can (and should) go read the whole thing right now: For Richer

  23. Re:It's the Democrats, stupid -- Vouchers -- Blech by Proudrooster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You don't know jack about inner-city schools. The problem isn't vouchers, the problems are

    1. No one wants to teach there.
    2. No one wants to go to school there.
    3. No one wants to live there.

    In Detroit, substitute teachers get FULL health coverage (and of course Kevlar vests). The current daily substitute count is about 2,000.

    As for vouchers, schools of choice, charter schools. How does this help the inner-city? Are parents going to drive their kids to the good schools in the subburbs every morning? Maybe you'd be kind enough to start a bus service.

    What about reinventing education with charter schools? Charter schools have proven to be a total failure and that fact is proven out with test scores?

    What about "schools of choice"? This is a fancy way of saying, we want to take our tax dollars and fund exclusive private schools that our kids go to. Also, the exclusive private schools don't have to take problem kids or handicapped kids and reserve the right to boot anyone they want back to public schools. So we get the money and the best kids, and you can turn your public school into a home for all the people we reject. Nice!

    If you have an answer I'd like to hear it. The only solutions I can see are:

    1. We need a lot more giving caring teacher in the innercity.
    2. The innercity needs to stop having more children than they can properly parent.
    3. The republicans need to stop trying to rape all the money out of public education so they can go fund "star wars" or "bombing Iraq".

    Lastly, packing in bodies has nothing to do with Federal FUNDS. The reason bodies are packed in is because THERE AREN'T ENOUGH TEACHERS IN THE INNER-CITY, so class sizes grow HUGE! I am sure Deroit would love to have 15 kids per class in the lower elementary, but guess what.. there aren't enough teachers! Additionally, the Feds and State are going to pay out no matter where that kid ends up.

    My apologies to the NON-Americans out there, but this offtopic post was neccessary.

  24. They're playing by the rules. by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Microsoft, like many other industries, is under attack by government. Microsoft, like many other industries, is trying to buy off the US government by lobbying Congress. It's a slimy, immoral thing to do, and I'd expect just that of Microsoft. But it's not illegal.

    Ya know, everyone thinks corporations have too much power over the government. Thing is, everyone blames the corporations. Me, I blame the GOVERNMENT. What, they make bribery legal, and you blame people and organizations for taking advantage of the fact?

    Everyone pisses and moans about the US being ravaged by capitalism and the free market. But the United States doesn't run under a capitalist system. It runs under a MERCANTILIST system, which is a very different animal. A truly free market can't exist when the government meddles with it, with taxes and tax credits, and regulations and licenses... A large corporation is very happy to have regulations placed on it; those rules may decrease its profits a little, but a smaller business will wither and die under that chilly wind. Do you wonder why small companies are disappearing?

  25. Other major corporate donors by leonbev · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Microsoft isn't the only major corporation that has been funneling money to political organizations. Looking at the top 100 list, you'll see a lot of companies with "questionable" ethics that "donate" even larger sums of money than Microsoft:

    5 Philip Morris $18,951,671
    12 AT&T $17,464,374
    18 Citigroup Inc $14,762,646
    19 United Parcel Service $14,621,284
    21 Goldman Sachs $13,665,527
    26 AOL Time Warner $12,195,822
    28 FedEx Corp $11,555,286
    29 BellSouth Corp $10,838,209
    30 SBC Communications $10,695,349
    31 Verizon Communications $10,255,052
    33 RJR Nabisco/RJ Reynolds Tobacco $10,079,162
    34 Ernst & Young $9,967,638
    35 Lockheed Martin $9,862,899
    36 JP Morgan Chase & Co $9,861,326
    40 Microsoft Corp $9,468,287

  26. No, the open-source community needs a party by greenguy · · Score: 3, Interesting
    ...And it's the Green Party. The Greens do not take any corporate donations at any time, for any reason. That's one of the reasons it's the ONLY party to have grown during the last year.


    In fact, the Green Party is the only one that thinks corporate power is a problem. And we are the only party whose values line up with the open-source commuity. See for yourself at http://www.greenpartyus.org/

    --
    What if I do the same thing, and I do get different results?
    1. Re:No, the open-source community needs a party by Maxwell'sSilverLART · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Of those four, I disagree (to some degree or another) with all four, or at least with the specifics of the pillars.

      "Grassroots Democracy." As spelled out by the manifesto on the Green Party website (yes, I actually read it, in its entirety), the Party wants to make everything a direct democracy. I am wholly opposed to the idea; the Founding Fathers were careful to avoid it because direct democracy is functionally equivalent to mob rule. Consider this: the abolition of slavery, and, later, the civil rights legislation of the 1960's, was highly unpopular; it was pushed through, despite heavy opposition, because the elected leadership was able to do its job, instead of having the people directly vote on the bills. Indeed, if everything is a direct democracy (an absurd idea, given the volume of legislation considered each year), what would even be the point of having representation? All we'd need is ballot counters.

      "Social Justice." Generally an emotionally-loaded term for Communism (that's with a big 'C,' the way Marx described it, not like the Soviets implemented it), the Greens' definition of "social justice" lives up to the reputation. Here's my definition of social justice: unequal rewards for unequal efforts; that's derived from the basic concept of justice, letting the consequences (positive or negative) of an action be proportional to the action itself.

      "Non-violence." Again, loaded words--who in his right mind is in favor of violence? And again, the devil is in the details. I am opposed to wanton use of the military, but I do recognize the need for one, and I think that if we're going to have one, it needs to be the most capable, most effective, most overwhelming force possible. Indeed, such a force would have a deterrent effect; "the best defense is a strong offense." I also believe that we owe it to the persons who make up that force to make them as powerful as possible: the greater their effectiveness, the less the risk to which they are exposed when called upon to do their duties. Additionally (this seems like a logical place to put it), I don't agree with their position on gun control. The Brady Law was a terrible idea which has been wholly ineffective in preventing crime (details available upon request, but would be offtopic here), has led to major violations of civil rights (i.e. the gov't illegally maintaining records of background checks, creating a de facto database of gun owners), and, while not explicitly defined, the "reasonable gun control" they propose would probably be distasteful, particularly in light of their stance on the Brady Law.

      "Ecological Wisdom." Wisdom is good, right? Nobody wants to be a fool. Well, yet again, the name of the pillar is good, but the stones comprising the pillar need examination. First of all, I am all in favor of preserving the environment; I'm a backpacker, hunter, fisherman, sailor, camper, and probably spend more time outside than 95% of the Slashdot population. Nonetheless, I disagree with some of the Greens' proposals for maintaining the environment. For example, I disagree with their position on nuclear power (they're wholeheartedly against it, and call for the complete shutdown of all plants in five years, if possible); I feel that, while renewable sources are the best long-term option, they're not ready yet, and, until they are, nuclear power is one of the best interim options available. Yes, I know of the hazards, and of the accidents; I also know the why and how on many of the accidents, and recognize that most of them were results of nuclear power being pushed ahead before its time; now, with a more relaxed political climate (no more Cold War), and another thirty to forty years' experience, I think we're in a better position to handle nuclear power.

      So, there's the short version: I disagree with all four, to some degree or another. Documentation is happily provided on the Greens' own web site; if you really need me to, I'll be happy to reply with chapter and section, but please don't ask unless you really can't find it. And, just for the record, I didn't make any accusations about what their positions are, I just said I didn't agree with them. If you're going to put words in my mouth and accuse me of making accusations, well, documentation would be nice.

      --
      Moderate drunk! It's more fun that way!
  27. Re:read between the lines... by BWJones · · Score: 3, Interesting

    looking at the numbers, i'd say they were hedging their bets in 98-00, and then went w/ the winner when dubya got in. judging from the results of the case, i'd say it paid off.

    Gates absolutely hated Clinton. A good friend of ours (went to the dark side for many $$'s at M$) was at a party at Gates house where Gates went on an absolute tirade against Clinton almost to the point of breaking down in tears before leaving the room. Our friend tells us it was really spooky and kinda sad, but it was most certain where Bill Gates political bent was focused. Shortly after hearing about this, I was watching CSPAN where dubya was coming out against the M$ anti-trust trial. And we all know the history since...Dubya gets in courtesy of the supreme court, appoints Ashcroft and gets rid of the entire Microsoft anti-trust legal team.

    --
    Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
  28. Re:Gun-/Human rights by Stonehand · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Personal safety is certainly a 'rights' issue -- you have no rights if you're trivially open to violation.

    Take a look around you. Are they identical to each other in capabilities, when it comes to handling themselves with regards to violence? Probably not -- both physically (some people are larger, faster, stronger than others) and mentally (ability to take in a tactical situation, ruthlessness to follow through if need be). Even if you assume a "fair" situation, the playing field of crime is biased towards an attacker...

    An attacker can bring partners and choose his victims, within reason -- there's not much point in trying to carjack pedestrians, for instance, so if he really wants a car, that slightly limits things. But say that a man wants sex, and is a sufficient asshole that he'd rather take it than earn it or pay for it. In that case, he can pick where he operates (e.g. areas with cover where he can hide), when (probably when there are minimal witnesses), and on whom (pref. a woman alone, one smaller and likely much weaker physically). Would you say it's a coin-toss, or would you say that the attacker has an edge? I'd say the latter -- while he may not be bright enough to avoid leaving evidence, that's of little consolation to the victim.

    Even for a mugging, weapons aren't needed -- say, three-on-one. Two approach from behind, the third punches in the kidneys or chops at the back of the neck, follow up with groin kneestrike from the front. Even if the victim fights back -- without a weapon, as you would seem to prefer -- the attackers might expect at most a bruise or two, given the ratio, plus the victim's money and other valuables. A lethal firearm equalizes things a bit given that many thugs won't be amenable to taking a bullet (instead of a punch that can be recovered from MUCH more readily) just so his partners can split $40.

    Incidentally, in Pittsburgh a serial sex offender was recently caught -- after eight or so victims. He wasn't caught by police footwork -- he was only stopped after he attacked the wrong civillian, twice in one day (the first time, she got away... and went home and retrieved her pistol). Tell the final "victim" that she shouldn't have had a gun.

    --
    Only the dead have seen the end of war.
  29. OT: Noelle Bush was caught with crack! by maynard · · Score: 4, Interesting

    No, she wasn't just snorting coke. In fact, she was caught hiding a rock of crack cocaine, by staff at a drug treatment center, at which she was a patient. For this she received a ten day jail sentence. It should be noted that the evidence of her possessing crack was thrown out of court on a technicality, on the presumption that staff members of a medical treatment center should not be compelled to testify given confidentiality rules. However, some staff members had already publicly admitted finding the crack to journalists, so the facts had already become public knowledge.

    Given that Ms. Bush has a long history of drug abuse, it's astonishing that the matter wasn't pursued further. Except for her family connections. Further proof that if you're rich or powerful criminal law simply doesn't apply.
    --M

  30. Re:american democracy? by Stonehand · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Have you heard of primaries and write-in votes, yet? People are permitted to choose their candidates; it's just that a large number feel that it's easier to choose a party affiliation, and many probably vote on the basis of party instead of the competencies and positions of individual candidates.

    --
    Only the dead have seen the end of war.
  31. By outsepending them by overunderunderdone · · Score: 3, Insightful
    How can the interests of individuals even come close to being recognized in an arena like that?

    If that individual is Jane Fonda by outspending them by a massive amount. To quote Counterpunch.org
    Jane Fonda continued to be the largest soft money donor in federal politics. During the first quarter of 2002, Fonda gave $400,000 to Pro-Choice Vote, bringing her total donations to the abortion rights group to $12.7 million since July 1, 2000


    Anyways a couple of points: First off much of what OpenSecrets.org is tracking here IS contributions by individuals. The methodology of OpenSecrets.org is somewhat flawed, or at least debatable. They are not just taking the contributions of Corporate PACs but also take the contributions of individuals and count them as the contributions of their employers. SO Peter Amstein giving 100% of his money to Democrats and George Spix giving all of his money to Republicans is assumed not to be because they are committed (and wealthy) partisans but because Microsoft Corp is directing their giving for the corporations purposes. This probably has *some* merit when you are talking about the very top tier of management giving hundred of thousands. But Open Secrets also includes every $200 or more contribution by every cubicle dweller at Microsoft. If you gave $200 to a candidate because you agreed with their position on Abortion, Open Secrets doesn 't see it as a healthy participation in democracy but as a nefarious plot by Micro$oft to influence Washington. Even for the big donors I think at least *some* of that money is probably donated not by corporate dictates for corporate purposes but because the individual is a partisan for one or the other party or for some cause. Jane Fonda's $12 million dollar expenditure probably has more to do with her stance on abortion than with trying to get special breaks for Universal Studios. She probably even giving money to candidates that support abortion at the *expense* of her personal financial interests - The Pro-choice Democrats she supports are likely to raise her taxes quite a bit more than the pro-life Republicans she is seeking to defeat.

    Also the huge organizations designed to aggregate money (corporations) don't hold a candle next to the huge organizations whose purpose is to aggregate political power - out of the top ten groups donating money to politics only one is a corporations (Phillip Morris) three are proffessional Associations (Realtors, Trial Lawyers & Doctors) the rest are unions.
    1. Re:By outsepending them by SideshowBob · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The Pro-choice Democrats she supports are likely to raise her taxes quite a bit more than the pro-life Republicans she is seeking to defeat.

      I have to call bullsh*t on this particular myth. In the 22 years since Reagan was elected in 1980 the only time the budget was balanced was when a Dem was president.

      The Republicans, despite vociferous claims to the contrary, are much more for big, intrusive, authoritarian government.

      I think we can all agree that Republicans are morre likely to spend money on defense. Well, the military represents over 40% of the federal budget alone! (source: FCNL)

      The Republicans have had things far too easy for far too long on the tax-n-spend issue. This is the party of corporate welfare, bloated military spending, and intrusive, unnecessary policing of its own citizens (e.g. the 'war' on drugs, which has inflated the prison populations to unprecedented levels in the industrialized world - yes, prisons do cost money).

    2. Re:By outsepending them by Storm+Damage · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'm not a fan of Democrats or Republicans, but I have to note the following facts:

      I have to call bullsh*t on this particular myth. In the 22 years since Reagan was elected in 1980 the only time the budget was balanced was when a Dem was president.

      While the Presedent enjoys the power to veto any actions of Congress, he does not set the Federal budget, Congress does. In the final years of Clinton's presidency, when the government came into the black, Republicans controlled a majority in the Legislature. When Congress shifted to a Democratic majority in 2000, and Bush II was (s)elected, the budget slipped back into the red. Whether this was the fault of the Legislature or of the Executive (or of the political climate in the wake of the terrorist attacks) can be debated ad infinitum.

      This is the party of corporate welfare, bloated military spending, and intrusive, unnecessary policing of its own citizens (e.g. the 'war' on drugs, which has inflated the prison populations to unprecedented levels in the industrialized world - yes, prisons do cost money).

      The Clinton administration saw record levels of drug arrests, convictions and imprisonment. More Americans were prosecuted under his (Democratic) watch, than under Reagan and Bush I combined.

      Now, I'm well aware that the Republicans are guilty of increasing military spending, which grants enormous windfalls to many aggressive-minded corporations, typically run by conservatives. But the arguments being presented here to dispell a "myth" are simply propogating another. There is a lot more going on in the Federal Government than simply the whims of whoever has the helm of the Executive Branch. Also, the modern left in America is way to the right of center when viewed in a global or historical context.

      Simply speaking, if you're truly interested in reducing Federal expenditures, corporate handouts, and intrusive, unecessary policing, voting for Democrats OR Republicans into Federal office is going to get you further from your goals, despite the rhetoric either party uses in it's campaigning.

  32. Re:Further proof by zulux · · Score: 3, Funny

    And very few people in Sweden experience the deep poverty that is all too common in the United States.

    Here's interesting food for thought: Swedes who have immigrated to the US also don't experience deep poverty.

    It's only a few deadbeats that give America a bad name.

    --

    Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.