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Replacing WEP for Wireless Security

i.r.id10t writes "Over at infoworld.com they have an article about the organization that certifies wireless LAN products under the Wi-Fi name revealed new specifications Thursday for how vendors should make their products more secure. The guidelines call for new mechanisms to replace the current security system, based on WEP, which has come under fire for being too easy to circumvent. The certification body, Wi-Fi Alliance, plans to lay the mechanisms out as optional features beginning in February and require them for Wi-Fi compliance about six months later, said Dennis Eaton, chairman of the Wi-Fi Alliance."

79 comments

  1. cool! an arms race by nounderscores · · Score: 2, Funny

    between Wi-Fi alliance and the successors of SNORT. this is good news! It will create jobs and nobody has to die.

  2. WEP? by mgibbs · · Score: 5, Insightful
    From the article:
    The guidelines call for new mechanisms to replacement the current security system, based on WEP (Wireless Encryption Protocol), which has come under fire for being too easy to circumvent.

    The last I checked, WEP stood for Wired Equivalent Privacy. Has to make you wonder how technically accurate the rest of the article is...

    1. Re:WEP? by BurKaZoiD · · Score: 2, Funny

      yeah, I thought the whole 666-bit encryption algorithm part sounded fake...

    2. Re:WEP? by Proaxiom · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Yes, but for some reason that's a common error. I've seen WEP expanded to 'Wireless Encryption Protocol' in a few places. It's just one of those things, it seems.

    3. Re:WEP? by jamie · · Score: 5, Informative
      "The last I checked, WEP stood for Wired Equivalent Privacy."

      I found a few places, like this, that say either is OK:

      What Type of Security is Available?

      WEP (Wired Equivalent Privacy a.k.a. Wireless Encryption Protocol) is data encryption defined by the 802.11 standard that was designed to prevent access to the network...

      But Google finds over 20 times as many hits on "Wired Equivalent Privacy," so that's the de facto winner. I'm guessing "Wireless Encryption Protocol" is just such a good expansion of the acronym that it's sprouted up all by itself. That's actually what I had understood "WEP" to mean until 10 minutes ago. :)

    4. Re:WEP? by Fjord · · Score: 2

      I think the name stated changing when they realized it wasn't the equivelent to wired privacy.

      --
      -no broken link
    5. Re:WEP? by Zeinfeld · · Score: 1, Offtopic
      Yes, but for some reason that's a common error. I've seen WEP expanded to 'Wireless Encryption Protocol' in a few places. It's just one of those things, it seems.

      I don't know if the change is official yet but I have been deliberately trying to change the name.

      The problems with WEP started with the name. It contains a broken metaphor and dooms the project to failure. First it asserts that privacy is the issue, ignoring integrity and access control is a typical rookie mistake

      Second we have security by analogy. If X is secure and we provide the security characteristics of X we have security - NOT. Ross Andersson has some great examples here. I use WEP as my example. The problem is that the security threats faced in a wireless protocol are completely unrelated to those of a wired protocol. It is no longer necessary to have a physical connection to access the network.

      Bodging the requirements means that WEP did not address important issues like how to deal with the sacked employee who is surfing the internal network from the car park.

      Yet another problem is that to some people 'privacy' is simply a weaker form of confidentiality. I don't think that it was being considered in the comsec sense of a very challenging form of confidentiality where you attempt to disclose information but with strings attached.

      --
      Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
      Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
    6. Re:WEP? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now you know, actually WEP = Wanna Eat Pie.

    7. Re:WEP? by geekindustries · · Score: 0, Offtopic
      But Google finds over 20 times as many hits on "Wired Equivalent Privacy," so that's the de facto winner. I'm guessing "Wireless Encryption Protocol" is just such a good expansion of the acronym that it's sprouted up all by itself. That's actually what I had understood "WEP" to mean until 10 minutes ago. :)

      google fight show this: Wired Equivalent Privacy ( 61 400 results) versus Wireless Encryption Protocol ( 129 000 results)

      --
      Hard work usually pays off over time, but procrastination pays off now.
    8. Re:WEP? by Fluid+Truth · · Score: 1

      Funny...I thought it stood for "Worthless Encryption Protocol."

      --
      Apparently, of the rich, by the rich, for the rich.
    9. Re:WEP? by g4dget · · Score: 2

      Well, since "WEP" doesn't actually provide anything near "wired equivalent privacy", it makes sense to change what the acronym stands for. "Wimpy Encryption Protocol" might be a better choice, though.

  3. WEP Acronym by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not wireless encryption protocol. It's wired equivalent privacy.

    1. Re:WEP Acronym by xiaix · · Score: 3, Informative

      Which I always took to mean "this is just as secure as if you had a wired network jack sitting out in the street which anyone who found it could use to connect to your network."
      This does seem to be a reasonably accurate descripion of the security level, and this is how I explain it to the execs here who want to set up wireless at home.

      --

      Have you read the Moderator Guidelines yet?

    2. Re:WEP Acronym by zmalone · · Score: 2

      Do you neglect to mention that most of them do in fact have a network port sitting unprotected on the street? Most houses do not have locks on their telephone boxes, and as such, there is nothing preventing some random kid from droping recording devices in there, and capturing all phone data. I have not heard about this being done to listen to DSL connections, but it should be doable with the right hardware.

    3. Re:WEP Acronym by jshare · · Score: 2
      That's on the untrusted side of the firewall anyway though.

      If you actually have sensitive material going out onto the Internet, without encryption, then who's fault is that? Being able to sniff your internet traffic is nothing compared to being able to sniff your LAN traffic.

      Hmm, maybe it is time to start using all IPSec internally....

  4. Yeah, but most people don't even use WEP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    A condom doesn't work if you don't put it on.

    1. Re:Yeah, but most people don't even use WEP by wrax · · Score: 1

      your right, a condom doesn't work if you don't put it on, but if its a low quality condom full of holes does it really do its job, or does it provide a false sense of securlty to those who use it.

  5. why don't they realize by Allaria · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That trying to base wireless security on wired security will not work. There will always be a workaround if WEP is used/based on. The only way you're going to be able to secure wireless networks is through authorization and encryption. Tons of companies have already done this, and it seems to be transparent to them.

    --
    If a and b in c, and a can create b, and a can create a, and b can create b, and b cannot create a, then a created c.
    1. Re:why don't they realize by kevlar · · Score: 1

      Agreed, however that type of security implies a software level solution regardless. I'd personally rather leave WEP alone and let thirdparties solve the issue in their own proprietary way. Not to be a troll, but it forces large corporations to buy software... which is a rare thing these days.

    2. Re:why don't they realize by invenustus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The best thing to do, if you have the option, is to have a box somewhere on the network with inbound ssh access. At work and at home, I've got a laptop and a Linux workstation. I SSH-tunnel everything sensitive (IMAP, AIM, even web pages) through the work station. People can sniff my traffic all they want and without breaking SSH2, they can't do anything with it.

      At some point, I'd like to write a tool that would set this all up transparently, but that's in the distant future. (Is there a way to add a tunnel to a running SSH session?)

      --
      grep -ri 'should work' /usr/src/linux | wc -l
    3. Re:why don't they realize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look at the proposal again.

      802.1X is about supporting user-identity-based authentication. TKIP is about making the radio encryption stronger than it is with WEP -- and with an appropriate EAP method, 802.1X supports radio key distribution.

  6. Secure by default by iiioxx · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I think it's great that wireless standards are expanding to include better security, but I think the real problem is with the way the products ship from the manufacturers. WEP would be a "good enough" security protocol for the average application, IF IT WAS USED CONSISTENTLY.

    But every wireless product I've ever used (and there have been a lot of them) shipped by default with WEP disabled, I guess to make it more plug-and-play. In my mind if you want to make wireless networking more secure, start by shipping the products with WEP enabled by default, and require the user to configure a unique SSID and WEP passphrase when they setup the equipment.

    I mean, you could have a rock-solid encryption protocol, but if nobody is using it... what's the point?

    1. Re:Secure by default by Build6 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, I don't think that's quite right. Having WEP on is "better" than not having it on, but the problem with WEP is that even with it on, with airsnort and enough traffic, the thing can be broken quite speedily. That's the whole point of the various papers published (e.g. by the CMU people) - WEP isn't "private" at all, provided someone out there WANTS to listen. Granted once you turn it on, assuming there's any other networks in range, anyone trying to "break in" will probably go for the low-hanging fruit.

      But what I want to say is, the other way of looking at what you say is this - if the manufacturers all ship with WEP on by default, the people using it would be lulled into a -false sense of security.

      (And if the manufacturers ship with WEP by default, then there'd be quite a few people leaving them on with the default keys... yet another problem).

    2. Re:Secure by default by nerdbert · · Score: 3, Informative

      You haven't tried an Orinoco setup then. They ship by default with WEP turned on and with the latest drivers they avoid the weak keys problems of WEP. A very nice setup, even out of the box, for your average user.

    3. Re:Secure by default by str8 · · Score: 1

      My company uses wep+vpn for security. I wanted to know if this was necessary so I opened kismet and captured about 100K packets on a busy AP. During this capture I got exactly 0 weak packets. Without the weak packets, AirSnort and everything else can't easily break WEP. Has anyone actually broken WEP without weak packets? Tell me of your 1337ness. .Com veteran, Hungry, Will code for sig God Bless

    4. Re:Secure by default by iiioxx · · Score: 1

      if the manufacturers all ship with WEP on by default, the people using it would be lulled into a -false sense of security

      People have a false sense of security about a lot of things. Do you think having an alarm system on your house makes you "secure"? No, but it's more secure than having nothing at all. The main problem with wireless networking today is that people ALREADY have a false sense of security. Most people don't realize that having an AP on a small LAN in their house, is like inviting public access to their systems. These are the same type of people that hook up a PC to a broadband connection without a firewall. They already have a false sense of security, because they are ignorant of the dangers.

      And if the manufacturers ship with WEP by default, then there'd be quite a few people leaving them on with the default keys...

      Like I said, force the user to choose a unique SSID and passphrase when they setup the AP or card. In other words, don't provide a default, require that the user enter their own information before the product will work. One thing to remember here is that in most cases we are simply trying to deter casual intruders. Anyone who REALLY wants to get into your system, will find a way. What we really need is just a measure in place to make things harder for the average script kiddie with a laptop and a Pringles can.

    5. Re:Secure by default by iiioxx · · Score: 1

      No, I haven't. I'm glad to see that a manufacturer is taking a little more proactive approach to wireless security. Does the product come with some obvious documentation to inform the user as to why the encryption is necessary? Most I've seen, make mention of it in a footnote buried deep in the book. I think they are trying to keep from scaring consumers away from the wireless products by warning them about security.

    6. Re:Secure by default by nerdbert · · Score: 1

      Yes, they do explain the key and why it is necessary in the documentation, which is almost required since you need the key to get everything set up. The setup program tells you how to figure out the default key and when you run the configuration program for the router you're clearly shown how to set a new key if you want to. They even tell you how to set 64 vs. 128 bit encryption!

      All in all, they're nice units for relatively nontechnical folks in my experience.

  7. Compatibility by JoshuaDFranklin · · Score: 5, Interesting
    A task group within the IEEE... 802.11 working group... is now working on a tough new security standard called 802.11i. However, it isn't expected to ratify that standard until September 2003, so the Wi-Fi Alliance took a "snapshot" of 802.11i.

    Great! More non-standard possibly incompatible implementatins ahead.

    For home users, the eventual goal is to have the new security features activated out of the box
    This would actually help a lot, as long as "activated" doesn't mean "password set to 1234".

    This article also didn't say anything about vender support, especially whether all the existing 802.11b gear will get new firmware. This is a really big deal for someone like a Uni or Wireless ISP where students/customers are going to try to buy the cheapest stuff they can find and expect it to work.

  8. On the back page... by i0chondriac · · Score: 5, Funny

    Several comittee members of the Warchalk Standards Organization met today to hammer out a new standard for Warchalking. They claim that the current warchalking symbols are too easily recognized by the media and authorities, and leave little room for future expansion.

  9. Why, oh why... by Alex+Belits · · Score: 2

    when I have first read the title it looked for me as "Replacing WEP for great justice"?

    Seriously, can't they just umm... adopt others' work?

    --
    Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
  10. Weak key avoidance/WEP Plus/etc by zardie · · Score: 5, Informative

    I've found that most manufacturers get around the current WEP issues by using a method called weak key avoidance. This doesn't use a sequential init vector, therefore rendering the attack invunerable to things such as airsnort.

    However, Cisco APs won't do that with my Orinoco cards. Orinoco APs won't do that with Cisco cards. Which is why I'd welcome some sort of standard "WEP plus" method implemented across the board. As each manufacturer implemented their own weak key avoidance algorithm via a firmware update on the cards and the AP itself, it should be a trivial task to implement a standard method, assuming the WiFi standards group doesn't make any stupid mistakes and require more powerful hardware. Wireless has been the hot technology lately, educational institutions have been the big users of this technology so the last thing they'll want to do is shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars for another 100 access points (in the case of Monash here in Melbourne).

    Also remember that WEP 128 (RC4) is NOT part of the Wi-Fi standard! I think they should address this one while they're at it as well.

    1. Re:Weak key avoidance/WEP Plus/etc by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 2, Informative

      Weak key avoidance involves skipping over weak IVs.

      This shortens the time before the IV space has been exhausted and security is compromised through Key/IV pair reuse.

      So it is six of one, half a dozen of the other.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    2. Re:Weak key avoidance/WEP Plus/etc by jhereg · · Score: 1

      The WEP plus I have seen:
      http://www.orinocowireless.com/upload/docum ents/WE PplusWhitepaper.pdf

      Should be interoperable just fine however you
      will not get the advantage of weak key avoidance
      if any of the stations using the same shared key
      do not have it implemented.

      Note that there are other attacks that this does
      not protect against. I would not count on WEP
      for secure communications.

  11. So, where does one get Wi-Fi Alliance standards? by roybadami · · Score: 1

    Are they available to the public, or only to Wi-Fi Alliance members.

  12. WEP isn't "good enough" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your points about secure-by-default are well taken, but let's be clear. WEP can never be a "good enough" security protocol. It has flaws that make it easy to crack, no matter how you set it up, and the software to exploit those flaws is relatively easy to find and easy to use.

    1. Re:WEP isn't "good enough" by iiioxx · · Score: 2, Informative

      WEP can never be a "good enough" security protocol

      If you are going to quote me, do so in context. What I said was:

      "WEP would be a 'good enough' security protocol for the average application..."

      The key phrase here is "for the average application". Meaning, home LAN, small business, or anything where high security is not a tantamount concern. WEP is "good enough" to provide a reasonable level of deterance against the casual intruder. Is WEP an end-all-be-all security panacea? No. And I don't think anyone said it was, least of all me.

  13. Two things... by strateego · · Score: 0

    Why can't this Wi-Fi product be build secure from the start. Security should be a feature like it is in Microsoft products.

    Why does a product have to be certified to be Wi-Fi, if it work with Wi-Fi product you should be able to use the genaric term. That is like saying you can't call a Kleenex(c) a Kleenex(c) unless it is certified.

  14. But is it easy to implement? by robdeadtech · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I don't see this doing much good for the 60-70% of access points that are totally unsecured out there today.

    Wireless manufacturers are doing such a poor job now "wizardizing" or even simply mentioning security concerns in the setup of the access point/wireless card, you could have DH encryption on the thing and 70% of the AP's out there would still be wide open.

    Also, I don't see how this will affect the majority of the wireless access pionts currently out there. Will the current access points be able to inherit this functionality via a BIOS flashe to support this encrytion? and if so, how many people will actually do it?

    --
    Heil Sig! -Rob
  15. Stupid! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Wired equivalent privacy? You haven't sniffed an ethernet cable, have you?

    Don't trust the wire (or wireless). YOU DON'T HAVE TO!!!

    Why try to create new technology for this? The problem can be solved with technology OFF THE SHELF.

    Linksys makes a "VPN router" that uses IPSEC and 3DES for under $100. It works fine with windows 2000 ipsec and many many others. I use it with OpenBSD. Linksys also makes wireless access points. Combine the two devices! Problem solved.

    Now if linksys would combine the two devices into 1 box and write some clear documentation for the newbies, they would have a great product!

    Are you listening linksys? d-link? netgear?

    Hmmm. Maybe I should go patent this idea.

    1. Re:Stupid! by khill3210 · · Score: 0, Flamebait
      Hmmm. Maybe I should go patent this idea.

      Yeah, that'll stimulate innovation.

    2. Re:Stupid! by ryanvm · · Score: 2

      Hmmm. Maybe I should go patent this idea.

      Too late. I've got prior art from an Anonymous Coward on Slashdot that dates back to 10/31/02. ;-)

    3. Re:Stupid! by louissypher · · Score: 1

      Well, your going to need one hell of a powerfull linksys box if you want the encryption to scale to say, 2000 users, how about 10,000?.

      Really, if it were that easy.

      --
      www.bleepyou.com
  16. Government Security Flaw by UTPinky · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I don't remember if this was ever posted to /., but this summer I was reading an article in some magazine, where supposedly a group stood across the street of some high-security military building (I want to say pentagon, but I'm not 100% sure) and was able to sniff the wireless network name. They then did a DOS on one of the APs, stole it's IP and had full access to the wireless part of the network. Now granted the wireless network was not connected to anything "too sensitive" but was used to control all of the security cameras... There's our tax dollars at work for you. It was supposedly fixed immediately once they were contacted about the whole... Just thought of this as I was reading and figured I'd share.

    --
    I'm only paranoid because everyone is against me...
  17. This hasn't been explained well.. by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 5, Informative

    This article doesn't really give the whole story..

    WPA is a renaming of SSN. This is based around a scheme called TKIP (temporal key integrity protocol).

    TKIP attempts to wrap WEP in mechanisms to address all the currently known attacks against WEP. This is with the express intention of allowing it to be provided as a software upgrade to existing hardware.

    TKIP does not attempt to be super secure. It does various bad things from a cryptographic standpoint. It is just that exploits haven't been discovered yet.

    The mechanisms of TKIP are:
    1) Key and IV mixing. The IV and the key are cryptographically mixed to avoid weak key attacks.
    2) Longer IV. The IV is 48 bits, not 24. Preventing Key/IV pair reuse.
    3) An MSDU level MAC (Message Authentication Code) called a MIC (to avoid overloading the term MAC). This gives proper message authentication and replay protection. The WEP ICV fails badly in this respect.
    4) An 802.1x derived protocol for mutual STA-AP and AP-STA authentication and key distribution.

    Things to keep in mind are..
    1) TKIP fails in its goal to be backwards compatible with some existing hardware. It will not work on some manufacturers equipment, since they cannot insert the mixed key into the system at a point to replace the RC4 WEP seed.
    2) This is a stopgap to hold out until real security can be provided via 802.11i, using some mode of AES.
    3) It is not using vanilla 802.1x. The 802.1x spec has been rewritten in places to provide for the needs of 802.11. So it is not enough to just read 802.1x. You also need to be aware of the as yet unpublished changes in 802.1aa and 802.11i.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    1. Re:This hasn't been explained well.. by roybadami · · Score: 1

      You also need to be aware of the as yet unpublished changes in 802.1aa and 802.11i.

      This is what concerns me about the whole WPA initiative. How are we to make reasoned decisions about whether to purchase and deploy WPA products if their security is based on unpublished standards.

      I really hope the Wi-Fi Alliance and IEEE come to some kind of arrangement to allow these drafts to be sold to the public -- otherwise this is just another proprietory encryption scheme...

  18. People are still USING this Swiss Cheese? by CrystalFalcon · · Score: 5, Informative

    Last company I worked for shut down the entire WLAN service corporate-wide when a loophole was found. It took MONTHS to get it back to service, still with WEP.

    Really, really. It is not that hard. Consider anything wireless to be untrusted, and require that they establish a VPN connection to your wired network. Set the clients to not accept any communications from outside this VPN. This technology has existed seemingly forever and IS tried and true.

    1. Re:People are still USING this Swiss Cheese? by MImeKillEr · · Score: 1

      Can't you just use MAC address authorization and essentially lock out unknown NICs?

      --
      Cruising the internet on my TI-99/4A @ a whopping 300 baud!
    2. Re:People are still USING this Swiss Cheese? by CrystalFalcon · · Score: 2

      MAC addresses can be both sniffed and changed.

  19. Re:So, where does one get Wi-Fi Alliance standards by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

    WiFi Alliance docs are available to WiFi alliance members.

    802.11i docs are available to 802.11 members.

    To get the 802.11 docs you must attend an 802.11 meeting and pay the up front money ($250-$400 depending on the phase of the moon. I believe WiFi alliance membership costs money.

    So a stay-at-home hacker is going to have a hard time implementing WPA/TKIP for Linux unless someone is naughty and slips them copies of the specs.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  20. I've got a copy of the spec on my desk by Chazman · · Score: 2

    ISO/IEC 8802-11:1999(E), that is, the official ANSI/IEEE 802.11 spec.

    It says WEP is Wired Equivalent Privacy and makes absolutely no mention whatsoever of a "Wireless Encryption Protocol". The latter term may have grown into some level of colloquial use, but has no backing by the official standard at all.

    --
    -----Chaz
  21. 802.11 authenication by Luminous+Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
    Matthew Gast, the author of 802.11 Wireless Networks: The Definitive Guide, has written a good article for the O'Reilly Network describing the future of 802.11 authentication:

    A Technical Comparison of TTLS and PEAP

    ZDNet also has a good overview of the proposed solutions.

  22. Hmph by drhairston · · Score: 3, Insightful

    One has to wonder how much faith we should have in a body which named their original effort 'Wired Equivalent Protocol'. Anyone who believed that signals blared across the electromagnetic spectrum were equivalent to those inside of copper wires needs to take a deep breath and then leave the field of Engineering.

    I for one have no faith in this body whatsoever. I use cables, and so does anyone who values their privacy.

    --
    Dr. Joseph Hairston
    Superintendent, CCBC
  23. Good. Do I have to buy ANOTHER WAP? by MImeKillEr · · Score: 1

    This is a Good Thing (tm) as long as I don't have to go out and purchase another 4 port DSL Switch+WAP and Wireless PCI NIC in order to get the new "encrpytion".

    While we're on the subject: Has anyone else noticed just how clueless LinkSys' tech support is on their own WAPs?

    --
    Cruising the internet on my TI-99/4A @ a whopping 300 baud!
  24. Re:So, where does one get Wi-Fi Alliance standards by roybadami · · Score: 1

    I believe WiFi alliance membership costs money.

    Wi-Fi alliance membership costs $20,000 per year, according to their web site.

  25. I heard WireLESS Eqv. Thanks for correction. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 2

    ISO/IEC 8802-11:1999(E), that is, the official ANSI/IEEE 802.11 spec.

    It says WEP is Wired Equivalent Privacy


    Thanks for the correction. I had heard it called "wireLESS equivalent OF privacy", which made enough sense (given the 802.11b context) that I didn't look deeper.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  26. Would this do it for you? by smartfart · · Score: 2
    Assuming your laptop runs linux, ssh -X to your workstation, then run whatever apps you want by starting them on the command line. The display will pop up on your laptop.

    If your laptop isn't linux, then you could run vncserver on your workstation, ssh to it with the VNC port forwarded, then point your laptop's vnc client to localhost, using the forwarded port.

    You want it automatic? A simple shell script would do the trick.

    1. Re:Would this do it for you? by invenustus · · Score: 1

      The laptop mainly runs Windows, but it has a working Debian partition.

      What I really had in mind was something completely transparent. Something that works like this:

      Mozilla asks network interface for a socket connection to slashdot.org:80. Network interface - which got my ssh login and password for the workstation at startup - immediately opens a tunnel through the Linux box to slashdot.org:80, and hands that tunnel to the browser somehow. Does that make sense? And does such a product exist?

      If it doesn't, it'd make a nice transparent VPN client. The problem, of course, is that it wouldn't support UDP or ICMP off the bat....

      --
      grep -ri 'should work' /usr/src/linux | wc -l
    2. Re:Would this do it for you? by fyonn · · Score: 1

      don't bother with using ssh then. try a proper VPN client. ipsec if you have a hankering for messing about, otherwise, if you're talking unix on both sides, then something like openvpn works great. one command run on each side and "bang" you have a virtual interface with an IP address you can route down and everything inbetween is encrypted with blowfish (or whatever openssl cypher you specify).

      you can get complicated and do it all with keys and ca's etc but you could just used a preshared key. it works great for me.

      and if you route down it then tcp, udp and icmp all work fine as it's a virtual network interface, ie any tcp/ip traffic will flow over it fine.

      dave

  27. WEP as expression of intent by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ... if the manufacturers ship with WEP by default, then there'd be quite a few people leaving them on with the default keys... yet another problem

    Actually, it looks more like a solution.

    WEP, now that it's so thoroughly cracked, is useless for actual security against even a mildly-interested eavesdropper. But WEP also serves another funciton.

    In much of the computing industry and culture, permissions serve another purpose - the expression of intent. A read-any file is intended to be read without bothering to ask, a read-owner-only file is intended to be private (i.e. don't break the lock without asking even if you're the sysadmin), and so on.

    Many people deliberately leave their WiFi hubs open and allow them to be used (on a non-interference-with-owner's-use basis), for a variety of reasons. The configuration COULD be used to indicate intent - open = go ahead, WEP on = I want it private, etc.

    But that is compromised by the practice of having WEP off by default. If WEP is on it's clear that the owner DOESN'T want you using it without at least asking permission. But if it's off, was it because the owner is granting permission, or because he just left the default in place, typically through ignorance.

    Shipping with WEP on and a default key adds a clear third category:

    - WEP off: It was TURNED off, a clear sign of intent to let the port be generally used (or total cluelessness).
    - WEP on, non-default key: The key was changed, a clear sign that the user INTENDED the port to be reserved for those to whom the owner granted permission.
    - WEP on, default key: The configuration is default. The user's just plugged it in and started using it, so his intent is not clearly expressed.

    Unfortunately, every security option that's on by default means an additional barrier between a new user and getting something to work. So it represents a flood of service calls, and a heavy extra expense. Thus, vendors have an incentive to ship products with security options off by default, leaving the user wide open until they become sufficiently educated (or burned) to pay attention to plugging the security holes.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  28. Security is just one consideration among many. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is very short sighted. Transmitting data over the airwaves has its own considerations, considerations that argue *against* having point-to-point encryption down at the lowest layer.

    Wireless is naturally a broadcast medium, and furthermore the overall data rates are modest. This means that there is a great opportunity for intelligent protocols to use "snooping" and adaptive caching to enable higher perceived throughput to the users.

    Imagine N users on the wireless lan trying to watch the same live stream. Does it really make sense to use N*R of the shared capacity when a much smaller constant factor of R could achieve the same perceived results? There are a host of other scenarios that would all benefit from being able to "snoop" at least selectively on packets depending on the application. (Think about searches in peer-to-peer filesharing or distributed hash tables...)

    This means that in wireless contexts encryption belongs at the application layer and sticking it on as WEP does destroys our ability to exploit the medium fully.

    Privacy has its place --- it's called the application layer. For other rare situations, an encrypted tunnel will do the job just fine.

  29. More info at Cryptonomicon.Net by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There seems to be a discussion of this going on over at cryptonomicon.net as well...

  30. PKI by redcliffe · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Why don't we just add public key encryption to the TCP/IP stack? When you join a WLAN you broadcast your public key, the others broadcast their's back to you. This key could be used to sign messages and to join the network you'd have to have your key signed by someone already in the network. With sufficiently long keys it's unbreakable by the script kiddie walking past.

    1. Re:PKI by posdnous · · Score: 1

      because public key encryption is bloody slow as molasses, that's why WEP was used in the first place, because it is fast.

    2. Re:PKI by redcliffe · · Score: 2

      So you just build hardware crypto acceleration into the wireless networking hardware.....

  31. Re:So, where does one get Wi-Fi Alliance standards by jhereg · · Score: 1

    http://www.drizzle.com/~aboba/IEEE/

    This site is best place I have seen for wireless
    security. It has a link to the 802.1X stuff.
    Note IEEE has been making its specs available in
    PDF.

  32. what about kerberos? by zonker · · Score: 0

    i am going to install wireless in my house and have been pondering similar things such as "what about when i'm my bills from my laptop" so i've been concerned that neighbors might be able to snag any outlying signal. anyway, i'm curious if kerberos would work as a means of securing my internal network? admittedly i don't know a heck of a lot about kerberos, but it sounds like a possible solution. i understand that it is an authentication system, but don't the communications that go over it get encrypted as well? thanks.

    1. Re:what about kerberos? by jhereg · · Score: 1

      It really depends on what you want/need. When
      you are paying bills from home I assume you are
      using the the http protcol and the agency you
      are dealing with is using ssl/tsl. That should
      secure your communication. If you want to
      provide confidentiality (IE encyption) then ssl /ssh/ipsec well do just fine. In kerberos
      the authentication is encrypted but other than
      that it is up to the app to decide. For instance
      you can use rlogin/telnet and kerberos in either
      encypted or plain text. (the auth will be
      encrypted assuming its a kerberoized host but the
      rest of the communication will be plain text)

    2. Re:what about kerberos? by zonker · · Score: 0

      i should have been more specific... if i am on one of my computers and am logging into another and using files from that other machine (say excel spreadsheets) i don't want others to have access to them. i wasn't talking about security through the internet itself. however you did answer my question about encrypting the communications from machine to machine... thanks :)

  33. Re:So, where does one get Wi-Fi Alliance standards by dtmos · · Score: 1

    The IEEE 802 standards that form the basis of the Wi-Fi Alliance (IEEE 802.11, .11a, .11b, etc.) are available for FREE download from the getieee web site, six months after they are published in pdf by the IEEE Standards Association.

  34. Wired Equivalant privacy is just that. by linuxbert · · Score: 2

    wep is insecure. it was designed to offer some security, not be unbreakable. it is a trivial effort to pull a signal off a wire, if i really want to do it, i can. just like cracking wep.
    wep wasent designed to be a complete security solution, it was meant to be discourageing to outsiders

  35. WEP is just broken by g4dget · · Score: 2
    WEP would be a "good enough" security protocol for the average application,

    No, it wouldn't. WEP is just broken--it can be listened into with one of a number of simple software downloads.

  36. Re:So, where does one get Wi-Fi Alliance standards by roybadami · · Score: 1

    The IEEE 802 standards that form the basis of the Wi-Fi Alliance (IEEE 802.11, .11a, .11b, etc.) are available for FREE download from the getieee web site [ieee.org], six months after they are published in pdf by the IEEE Standards Association.

    The Wi-Fi WPA standard is based on a draft IEEE standard. Draft standards are not available for free download. In fact, as I understand it most drafts are not available at all to people outside the working group (though some draft standards seem to be available for purchase -- how does this work?)

  37. Availability of IEEE 802 draft standards by dtmos · · Score: 1

    AFAIK no draft standards are available for purchase. 802, like most standards organizations, works hard to limit draft distribution outside the organization (and to stop companies that advertise "compliance" to a draft). Drafts are, by definition, unapproved by the organization. Since they change often, they can cause confusion; also, it is felt that interested persons can best improve the draft by becoming active in the standards organization itself. After all, anyone can attend a meeting; at the 802.11/.15/.18/.19 meetings a Wi-Fi LAN and server is installed, over which attendees can download draft standards to their laptops 'til their hearts are content.

    The next meeting is November 10-15 in Kauai, Hawaii; the one following that is January 12-17, 2003 in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.

  38. Last Post! by alpg · · Score: 1

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    improve ...
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