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No Windows Allowed On Ex-Battleship Cruise Liner
uucee writes "Wired has a story on an ex-warship cum cruise ship. Owner of the ship, Doug Humphrey, on why no Windows aboard his ship: 'We didn't want to have viruses blowing up systems that we depend on for navigation and monitoring engines and other systems. And since nothing seems to be able to stop all of these Windows viruses, the best way to win is to just stop using Windows.' However, it's not clear why Mac programmers can be trusted more than Windows programmers to keep a ship running: USS Yorktown was brought to a halt not by a virus but by bad coding: divide-by-zero.
As Windows viruses don't travel through 'the ether,' it's also unclear how mission-critical systems, properly cut off from the outside world, would become infected in the first place."
They didn't have Windows on the ship because sailors kept opening them and getting all their stuff wet. Ta da!
(So long, karma.)
But then how do they see where they're going?
--sdem
Well if the general public is going to base purchase desisions on half truths, marketing BS and FUD then at least this should give them a hint of balance.
1) This is a coastal patrol boat with a 40 mm cannon and two machine guns. It isn't remotely a "battleship".
2) The owner doesn't mention the Yorktown incident at all. Given the way it's constantly, erroneously invoked here, I'm surprised this is the story picked in which to debunk it.
3) So, somebody with a fairly sketchy understanding of computers made a billion by selling his startup to someone else before it cratered. It's been a while since people like that were a novety worth expending thought on.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
(1) It's not a battleship, it was a patrol ship....quite a small one at that.
(2) It's not used as a "cruise ship" now -- it's the personal vessel of an entrepreneur.
(3) As for how viruses would have gotten aboard (because they don't "travel through the ether") -- the ship has satellite Internet and is hooked-up to DSL when moored.
All that said, it's an ugly fsck'ing boat that dude's got!
-psy
What are you trying to do, piss off as many people at once as you can? The Yorkton may have been "bad programming" but it was NT and not a Mac. In fact there was nothing to do with Macs and the Yorkton.
"My brother was hit by and Audi last year, so I don't see why I should trust all those Ford cars to be safe"
There is no text here. That's what the [nt] means. The filter obviously doesn't like it though.
Consultancy: If you're not part of the solution, there's money to be made in prolonging the problem
"We didn't want to have viruses blowing up systems that we depend on for navigation and monitoring engines and other systems."
It's note-worthy that this is not a military vessle anymore. Unless I'm reading the article wrong, this boat is a glorified private yacht. I fail to see the importance of the whole issue from this perspective.
I can see the ads now...
"My name is Doug Humphrey, and I'm a rich bastard who downsized my company and bought a disused warship-turned-yacht for my own private use!"
Good for him. Worried about your navigation systems? Get a stand-alone GPS unit (Assuming the Royal navy stripped out the navigation equipment that the ship originally had, that is, which I'm sure didn't run Windows!). And I'm sure an engine room in a ship like that still requires a trained engineer and at least one assistant to operate.
The only 'critical system' I can imagine on that ship that could possibly rely on the stablility of an OS is his stock-market update streamer.
Now... if anything, the interesting story here is how they converted his *company* to use Macs, and is supposingly saving the firm a bunch of money on maintainance. That's something to talk about. Now we can have a meaningful discussion on the Mac vs. Windows situation in the business world.
=Smidge=
"... the only complaints were from people who couldn't play games on their machines any longer. So sorry, no games at work. We are so mean...I don't play computer games so that might help explain why I don't miss the Windows box." I didn't know only windows had computer games... chris.
If we don't end war, War will end us. - H.G. Wells
you know, it doesn't need to be clear. it's his ship, he can use whatever rules he wants. seems like pretty wise rules really.
US Citizen living abroad? Register to vote!
Why don't they just isolate the network that the ship's computers are on (the important ones like navigation) from all other computers. Don't connect it to the internet. And have every computer on it locked down, take out disk drives/etc. It would be very hard to get a virus that way, and you could run whatever you want for an OS.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
"We forced everyone to go to Macs for the desktops," he said. "The support load dropped to almost nothing and the only complaints were from people who couldn't play games on their machines any longer. So sorry, no games at work. We are so mean."
"I've used Macs for the last six years," he said. "I had a PC before that, but Macs were fun and more reliable. I don't play computer games so that might help explain why I don't miss the Windows box."
"We avoid the Windows operating system since it is such a huge security risk," he explained. "We didn't want to have viruses blowing up systems that we depend on for navigation and monitoring engines and other systems. And since nothing seems to be able to stop all of these Windows viruses, the best way to win is to just stop using Windows."
Two paragraphs noting that Mac's don't have as many games, and one noting that Mac's are more secure that Windows machines. If I hadn't read the Slashdot headline I would've thought this article was about a game-hating sailor.
> it's also unclear how mission-critical systems,
> properly cut off from the outside world, would
> become infected in the first place."
They come pre-infected from the vendor. Infected
with backdoors. E.g. the proliferating IIS
vulnerabilities, just one of which allowed
Code Red and Nimda to own the Internet for
over a year now. E.g. the NSA backdoor Kerberos
keys. E.g. SP3 and Media Player auto-install
"features". Infected also with DOS modes. E.g.
Media Player DRM.
Who needs viruses to make the platform unstable
and unreliable? The vendor does a good enough
job, in this case.
Oh, and then there's the issue of real-time
mission-critical response. What is the peak
interrupt latency of a Windoes 2000 Adv Server
system? What is it for an up-to-date Mach or
Linux system? Clue: With Windows it is effectively
unlimited. With Linux, it is measured in
microseconds. With Mach it is measured in
milliseconds.
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
It's clearly a terrorist organiztion!
>80 column hard wrapped e-mail is not a sign of intelligent
>life
Oh come on, some people go cruising for the uhh.. uhhh.. well, I'm sure people go cruising for other reasons.
how are they using a satellite connection without going through a PC running Windows? Every report I see at DSLReports.com indicate that there is no way to connect directly to a Mac (or linux). You need Windows to do the ICS because there are no Mac/linux drivers for the satellite modems available.
Welcome Aboard the Badtz Maru! has more photos and details of her history.
Found this on his company's website (http://www.cidera.com/):
;-)
The Internet: A Brief Timeline
1968 ARPA--the Advanced Research Projects Agency--contracts for the Arpanet, a network of linked computers for the military and also academia.
1975 The first do-it-yourself computer kit: the Altair 8800.
1989 The World Wide Web is born.
2000 Worldwide users on the Internet exceed 300 million.
Yeah, I'd say that pretty much sums it up
Journey onward.
That's easy - unless the machine is unplugged, sealed in cement and at teh bottom of the ocean, *someone* is going to bring his special program from him and will install it on the box.
Unless you post a guard on every box at all times, someone is going to play with it and screw it up.
Or steal it. One guy was so brazen that he came into a training class, and removed RAM from the machines while the class was going on. We found out about it a little while later when the person giving the class called us to ask when were were going to send the guy back to "finish working on the machines."
"Uh, what guy?"
"The guy that you sent out, earlier!"
"We didn't send anyone out . . ."
The point is, with 5000 employees in a manufacturing plant, we had the occasional problem where one of our critical systems would drop off-line because someone wanted to plug in their coffee machine, or play his solitaire on OS/2, or decided that they really wanted to chill down their alcohol in that nice, air-conditioned cabinet during the summr months . . . and Cruise Ships will have that many employees. All it takes is *ONE* idiot, and you end up in the press . . .
Chivalry is not dead, it's just frequently misspelt. - M. Langley
Wired has a story on an ex-warship cum cruise ship.
Whoa, hold on! Did you just say "cum cruise ship"? Can I get a ticket?
When the firm underwent a drastic downsizing recently, he moved his entire staff to Macs because it was too expensive keeping a fleet of Windows machines shipshape.
"We forced everyone to go to Macs for the desktops," he said. "The support load dropped to almost nothing and the only complaints were from people who couldn't play games on their machines any longer.
I expect slashdot reader to comment on the story before reading it, but shouldn't the SUBMITTER read it first?
Man this entire story would make a good Apple switch ad :).
Newport News Shipbuilding is constructing CVN 77, a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, for the Navy in Newport News, Va. In January (2000), the shipbuilder chose Lockheed Martin Corp. to develop the carrier's integrated warfare systems, said Jerri Fuller Dickseski, a company spokeswoman. Lockheed Martin officials chose Microsoft for the project.
On the Slashdot page, the headline says no Windows machines are allowed onboard, but the article says only Mac's onboard.
Does this mean you can't bring on PC's with linux? But you can bring on Mac's with linux on it? Technically it would still be a Mac, but without the Mac OS.
I Wonder if you can bring Pocket PC's on....they run on a form of Windows.
thats funny
So if he ever runs amuck on the see will pirating finally become a big problem for apple ? :-)
What the fuck is that all about? Half the facts in the headline are wrong (battleship, cruise liner, yadda yadda) and then you strike off on a tangent that's just plain inflammatory and, from the looks of it, shows off your ignorance of closed system infections.
Argh! I've so had it with this bullshit. Slashdot has become incredibly unreliable. You guys fucking lie in your headlines (let's call it what it is.. it's no merely "inaccurate", it's fucking lying for the sake of sensationalism) and then just go on about your business when half your [huge] readership makes note of it.
ARGH! I defy you [Slashdot editorial staff] to address this issue. I defy you. Go ahead... prove that you all aren't the true 'anonymous' cowards hiding behind your 'code of silence'.
Headline: Slashdot makes shit up just for shits and giggles. Facts secondary to inflaming the masses.
- I am made of meat.
And since nothing seems to be able to stop all of these Windows viruses, the best way to win is to just stop using Windows.
The immediately brought to mind a line from the old Wargames movie: "Strange game: the only winning move is not to play."
Software Wars
If it weren't too long for it, your entire post would become my sig. I think I'll make a poster out of it or something to the effect ;P
Hey dumbass he's not cutoff from the world due to a satellite connection. You can have all the security you want but a half-ass operating system is going to let stuff through every time. If you had even the faintest idea of security architectures, firewalls, and applications you would kow that. Also this boat is the size of a life boat on a battleship. What an ignoramus you are.
Funny, yet true. There are no actual windows on a ship, nor are there doors -- only "hatches," etc.
So like, I was gonna fire my cannon and stuff....and my ship started going BEEEBEEPBEEEPBLIPBEEEP...and I missed. Then I had to try and shoot again but it wasn't as good...cuz I was dead. It was kind of....a bummer.
According to the article :
They have satelite uplink to the internet.
So they can get viruses.
Now repeat after me: Stupid shit happens. Sure you're only supposed to trust tested and validated CDs from reputable places. Sure that's the way it's supposed to happen. Aren't all CDs from Microsoft trusted? Surely they wouldn't let a virus slip out their door on one of their own CDs. If you think that you're wrong. Microsoft distributed copies of Visual Studio .Net that were infected by Nimda! Companies do dumb shit. IT workers don't always scan incoming media for viruses on isolated machines. Weird shit happens. Dumb shit happens. Eliminating one of the most common conductors of the effects of dumb shit makes sense.