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The Ethics of Desktop Chips Stuffed Into Laptop PCs
squareBIT writes "I recently found this article on THG about my SmartStep 250N having a desktop CPU stuffed into it. That's all fine and dandy. but when I paid for this thing, nobody told me it would run at HALF SPEED in battery mode. I don't recall there being any mention of this before I handed them thousands of dollars. Shouldn't there be some sort ethical ramifications put into action here? I feel so dirty ..." The least-satisfactory computer I've ever owned (won't even boot now) is a Toshiba with just such a chip -- wish I'd asked about that in the store.
Contrary to this was the exciting thing Toshiba did with the Libretto 50CT when they ran out of Pentium 75 chips... they started putting in P120s downclocked to 75. Unfortunately I didn't get one of those, but I *was* able to OC my 75 to 100... too bad someone stepped on my libretto and cracked the screen, eh?
If you bought an old Mustang and found out it was a four cylinder POS and not an eight cylinder monster would you feel cheated? Or would you feel stupid for not having researched a major purchase? Just because you have the cash on hand doesn't mean you have to buy something this second - check it out first. The internet is a fantastic way to learn the true specs of a product, especially computers. Use it.
Writers imply. Readers infer.
What you are talking about is actually a good feature for many laptops. If you want to maximize your performance while depending on battery, check your BIOS while booting. There probably is some switch for gliding between max. power savings and max. performance.
The article mentions in passing that the user has no control over this performance degradation.
Even if they did, it's hardly convienient have to reboot and enter the BIOS to rev up the processor in the midst of heavy operations.
Well if you can't make it run full speed, and they didn't tell you, return it.
The article says they clearly state this is the case, maybe they changed something, or you didn't look very hard.
Either way I'd return it, and ask for one that runs full speed.
I think this is generally a good idea, the way I use a laptop it would work well. When I am at a proper desk, I do the serious "work" that takes more CPU power, and I'm generally plugged in. When I'm using batteries, it would typically be less demanding applications (reading email, simple quick work in ofice software) and I don't need all that speed. Realistically most computers are overpowered for the work they need to do. Here at work I have a 350MHz Pentium machine, and it works fine.
A friend of mine went through hell trying to get any customer service from Toshiba. Even when they finally agreed that he deserved a replacement, he got censored (and censured) for telling other customers.
Buy a ThinkPad next time
It's a *WELL* publicized fact that laptops use power management in order to extend battery life. I mean, people deliberately go out and buy ultra-low voltage P3s with speedstep because they need the battery life...
Besides, it's pretty well known that *most* laptop action occurs in the *indoors* near "power outlets".
------- "From bored to fanboy in 3.8 asian girls" ----------
I work in IT for a law firm. If any lawyer came up to me and asked for a laptop that did NOT have this feature (or to turn it off), I would laugh in their face. How hard is it to understand: 1) Computers have so much speed now that only the most graphic intensive game or the most complex calculations are going to come close to pushing their limit. 2) Batteries have not kept up with chips, and thus have laughable capacities for the things you use. 3) Unless you carry spare fully charged batteries with you, you have to be a moron not to use the incredibally helpfull feature that you are complaining about. Even if you are playing Doom, it is far better to play Doom for 2 hours with a slight jerkiness and speed reduction, than to lose power and have to kill the game 1 hour into your 2 hour train ride.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
I expect you will hear a lot from Toshiba 5005-s504 owners or ex-owners such as myself. After 9 months, a fried MB, three cooked DVD-CD players and a sizzled MB, TOSHIBA finally purchased my 'machine' back. The problem? A desktop CPU, and insufficient cooling. At first it just shutdown from over heating, along with the loss of any unsaved work. Next TOSHIBA modified the BIOS to change the CPU speed inversly with temperature. Of course the performance sucked at this point. This machine was advertised as the ultimate in multi-media available. I decided it was the ultimate in bad design and ask and got my money back, ...full refund. One other major problem, you can't get to the BIOS except via the OS. The Lagacy machine, I think they (T and M$) say.
Look at it this way, when you're on power, you've got a better chip than the equivalent mobile CPU, right?
;^). At the beach? Sand plays hob with your CD drive -- which won't last long on battery power either.
And the control panel for SpeedStep (under Windoze at least) lets you turn it off and burn through your batteries anyway.
And how often are you away from power? Cars and planes, it's only $100 or so for a DC adapter. Camping? Unless you're backcountry, you've probably got an accessible outlet, even if it's next to the sink
Frankly, what are all those cycles for? I can only think of a few things:
* Gaming -- but if you've got broadband to play, isn't there a power outlet around?
* Digital photos and video -- snag some extra batteries -- if you're video editing, you've got a backpack full of gear anyway.
* Warskating?
* Serving Oggs from a park bench?
* Digital capture at the Two Towers premiere?
Design for Use, not Construction!
Forgive me if I come off sounding snide, but you really should have done your research. Intel has at least for the last 4 years been differentiating between their desktop processors and their mobile processors. You can always tell this because laptop processors are distinguished with the word "mobile". It's not that tricky, and is why I waited a few extra monthes for laptops to start using the mobile processors in their laptops instead of the full-blown model
I'm only paranoid because everyone is against me...
I shelled out big bucks for my "desktop replacement" Toshiba satellite 5000 which has a desktop PIII 1000GHz chip. Unfortunately, the processor runs so hot that it constantly overheated and powered down. The BIOS "fix" clocks down the CPU when it gets hot (which is always) so it doesn't shut down spontaneously any more, but now I have a VERY expensive pentium two equivalent. When you apply the BIOS fix it changes the BIOS so that the install disks which contain the gimped version of your Win OS won't unstall on the "unrecognized laptop" until you take it in to an authorized dealer.
Not to mention that this laptop doesn't even have a standard bios that you can configure. It's some wierd proprietary thing that lets you make a password and select boot priority and that's it.
The sound is problematic too because it runs through ACPI, which is fine for windows, but very difficult if you want to run linux. So for the one in four linux distros that can actually boot up on this laptop, so far none of them have sound that works.
Toshiba won't do a thing to help you when you get these headaches. I would stay away from buying a brand new laptop until you can do a little research to see what sort of problems will crop up.
I have daily experience with hundreds of apple and PC laptops (about 50/50) and honestly the apple's batteries dont last much longer then a quality pc laptop. Apple designs with battery power in mind from the start, many consumer and high performance pc laptops couldn't care less. Some of these will have battery life's 30 minutes. When compared with similiar laptops the Apple battery life isn't anytihng to write home about. I still think the case designs on the Apple laptops are worlds ahead of their pc counterpart.
Case in point; Back when MFM hard drives were the only show in town, I built my first computer from parts. After a few weeks researching each part, I boldly went in and asked for a 1:1 hard drive controller -- paying extra for it -- along with the other premium pieces needed to build the beast.
Meaningless fact: The old MFM drives would not necessarily be fast enough to continuously read data. Instead, they would read a track, fill up, and then skip a track or more; the disk would have a 1:2, 1:3, ... interleaving of tracks. If the drive and controller were in tune, the data could be read one track after another with no gaps; 1:1 interleave.
After putting it all together, I ran some tests and found that data was being read from the drive with a 1:2 interleave. When I accused the uber geek salesman back at the store of giving me the wrong parts, his only comment -- sealed with a grin -- was;
Since then, I've assumed that no matter how I plan something isn't going to be right.
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
"I would feel cheated if the dealer told me it was an eight cylinder mark2"
...and rightfully so. The UCC states that any contract you enter into where the seller lies (either intentionally or mistakenly) about the product sold is voidable, thus allowing you to escape it.
However for the original poster, this might not apply because all laptop chips downshift when running on battery- to save power consumption, duh. So this might qualify as a case where the lack of investigation (normally not expected of the consumer) might be so grossly negligent that it amounts to acting in bad faith on part of the consumer to ascend to the terms of the contract. That is of course, my opinion, a court might rule otherwise, but it would certainly be surprising of they did.
Unless you can show that they represented the product to run always at a certain speed, I don't think you'll have much legal ground against the merchant.
75% of the Windows laptops I have been assigned over the last 5 years have had that "feature."
Yes, feature. In each case the builder added little stickers and tray icons saying how it had a "power saving feature" that slows down the CPU to save battery power. The tray icon points to an applet that controls what triggers the speed drop.
The biggest offenders in my case where IBM and Toshiba. Neither could play a full DVD. I remember one specific instance that the battery died right at the intermission for 2001: A Space Odyssey!
My 600 MHz iBook on OS X 10.2 has this kind of feature in the system preferences, but as far as I can tell it defaults to full power. You would have to specifically set it to cut performance to save power. And I can watch a whole DVD without sweating it out.
Pedro
----
The Insomniac Coder
However for the original poster, this might not apply because all laptop chips downshift when running on battery- to save power consumption, duh.
First off, my laptop's cpu does not downshift. I tell it not to. Second, its a desktop chip masquerading as a laptop chip, which causes more problems. They don't technically downshift because they're missing SpeedStep circuitry. Instead, the timer sends the CPU empty cycles every other cycle, so the processor only does work half its cycles. This effectively lowers power consumption and performance, without techincally changing the speed of operation (because the desktop processor can't change speed)
This is where I get my recommended daily allowance of "Foot in Mouth."