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Transmeta Needs Microsoft

An anonymous reader writes "Faced with dwindling sales, it looks like Transmeta needs Microsoft's new tablet PC to survive." Or, if not Microsoft, some company who can spark the long-overdue tablet-computing revolution.

20 of 443 comments (clear)

  1. Face It by nizcolas · · Score: 5, Funny

    The best tablets, came from Sumeria.

    --
    If you get an error, type "OVERRIDE" or "SECURITY OVERRIDE" and then try the optimize command again.
    1. Re:Face It by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
      The best tablets, came from Sumeria.


      Man, I am so sick of you pro-Sumerian, anti-Hittite Slashdot bigots.

  2. Tablet PC's are a way cool tech by djsable · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And if Transmeta makes the chips, then that is double cool.

    I personally don't care WHO makes the damn things, as long as someone makes them, and gets them out there for reasonable prices!

  3. A niche chip by TiMac · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Transmeta took the risk in having a very specialized chip--that is...it's very low power but not as fast as others...maybe the risk just isn't going to pay off if there's no market for it.

    Supply and demand....but where's the demand?

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    1. Re:A niche chip by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Transmeta took the risk in having a very specialized chip--that is...it's very low power but not as fast as others

      Actually, they took a different risk. They never thought the performance would suck as much as it does. They thought they could take a very wide core and implement software emulation such that it would be faster than pure hardware solutions by making the software "smarter".

      They failed.

      Which is really not surprising. It's exactly the same delusion that makes people still think that "compilers are so smart nowadays that they can easily create better assembly code that humans" when that is and always has been patently untrue. People always underestimate the complexity of optimization.

      We will never have optimizers as good as humans until we solve the "great question" of human AI. They go hand in hand, but people just don't want to accept that.

      --
      Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
    2. Re:A niche chip by (startx) · · Score: 5, Insightful

      actually, gcc is getting pretty damn good at assembly, at least on the x86 anyway. I was at a confrence the other day where rastman was one of the speakers, and he was talking about his new canvas library called evas. He said he wrote the speed bits in assembly by hand, and then for fun (and benchmarks) wrote it in c and had gcc compile it to asm as well. It spat out line for line what he had spent hours writing.

    3. Re:A niche chip by mocm · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I don't think performance sucks as much as Intel may want you to believe. Take a look at this for some benchmarks.
      And you have to consider that all tablet with Pentium III will run at a lower speed when they are on battery.

      --
      ***Quis custodiet ipsos custodes***
  4. Transmeta needs to give up by sheddd · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They're so far behing on mfg technology that they're screwed. AMD or Intel can take a .13 micron part, underclock it, under-volt it and spank em silly (while getting many more chips per wafer).

  5. Transmeta to create "profit morphing" technology by truth_revealed · · Score: 5, Funny

    Transmeta to create "profit morphing" technology to turn an unprofitable business plan into to a profitable one.
    They will roll out newly patented "micro profit opcodes" to soak up Microsoft money at the molecular level.

  6. Re:Aw man... by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If your business model needs MS, then you're already done.

    Yeah, because NO ONE has EVER made a lot of money hitching themselves to the Windows platform... (*cough*Quicken, Visio, Norton, McAfee, Innumerable Games, etc, etc, etc*cough)

    Sheesh, dude, get a clue. Microsoft is dominant exactly BECAUSE they make it easy for people to develop for the platform and make lots of money. Review the history of OS/2 to see what happens when you rape the developers.

    --
    Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
  7. The truth is... by Cervantes · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Transmeta should have realized a long time ago that they couldn't break into the laptop market (which is where they seem to have been trying to go). What Intel doesn't monopolize, AMD jumps on with greater resources than Transmeta could hope for (Hammer notwithstanding).

    The MS Tablet PC could be the best thing to happen to Transmeta. MS isn't exactly happy with the major box brands offering *nix, and inside rumours say debate over whether security should be hardware or software have put a good dent in MS/Intel relations. By going Transmeta, MS can get a good price on a suitable processor (not megapowered like the portable P4's, but perfect for the job), which means more tablets running MS software, they get a bigger say in the design of the tablet, and the poke Intel in the ass and say "Don't push your luck, big guy, we don't need you as much as you want to believe."

    And in the end, the result is just as good for open source on the tablet platform, because cheap tablets with a big company behind them will get a strong push into the marketplace, give OpenSource developers a reason to write for the tablet.

    I say, Go Transmeta!
    (hey, wasn't that a catchphrase from an 80's kids show?)

    --
    If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
  8. it reminds me... by thanq · · Score: 5, Insightful
    But it turns out that American computer users aren't interested in ultra-thin and lightweight laptop PCs. That's why Transmeta has had more success in Japan(...)

    I wonder if that has much to do with the US way of life - we see almost exact same trend in automobile and home appliance industries. People in the States like to drive muscle cars, SUVs, full sized cars, who guzzle gas like crazy. In Europe, the trend is reverse, smaller, more economic cars running on electricity or natural gas and well esablished. Here in the US, they all seem to be either developing very slow or even failing.

    Same thing with the dryers and washers. Europe in Japan goes for making them more energy efficient and smaller (due to space constraints, mainly), where here in the US we dont see much of a move away from the full sized washers.

    Because of that, I would think the quoted statement could very true.

    1. Re:it reminds me... by Otterley · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The reason Americans buy inefficient products is because energy is so cheap in the USA. However, when energy becomes expensive (as it did in the 1970s during the oil embargo) to the point at which switching to something more efficient is cheaper than continuing to purchase the means to power it, you'll find that Americans will quickly dump the guzzlers.

      It's really quite simple...

  9. Re:Aw man... by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "If your business model needs MS, then you're already done."

    Tell that to Gateway and Dell.

  10. Predatory Pricing (aka Biatch slap) by airrage · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Intel can afford to sell chips less expensively than it normally would in order to gain a foothold in a given market--and it has proven its willingness to engage in price wars.

    This is the crux of the article, predatory pricing: airline seats, xboxs, OSs, etc. Sell the low-margin product at a loss to sell 5 high-grossing products for an AVERAGE price greater than your competitor. Even if the tablet PCs are a hit, they'll get squeezed when Intel wants that market share. So one foot in the grave at this point ...

    --
    "This isn't a study in computer science, its a study in human behavior"
  11. Re:Aw man... by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The only resin Quicken exists is b/c MS lets them exist.

    Oh man, look at this history of Quicken. Microsoft tried damn hard to kill Quicken. Damn hard. In fact, they were going to just give and buy out Quicken, but the DOJ blocked the buyout.

    Don't you think they would just bundle Money with the OS if they wanted to stomp out Quicken?

    Sure, if they wanted to screw themselves in the process. The point isn't to destroy Quicken, the point is to maximize profit. And giving away "Money for nothing" (heh) doesn't maximize profit. It's hard to start selling something again after you give it away.

    If you think MS plays nice-nice for the benefit of the other company, then think again.

    Microsoft is smart enough to realize that the biggest advantage they have is their range of applications. That's why they treat their developers so well.

    On top of that, I think MS now owns Viso.

    That's called being a successful Windows developer. If only I could create product that Microsoft would want to pay 100s of millions of dollars for. :)

    --
    Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
  12. What about Apple? by teamhasnoi · · Score: 5, Funny
    Apple always needs new, slow chips for their computers.

    Put the gun down! I was only kidding!

  13. But it is a Growing Niche by Gerry+Gleason · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Low power is a big win. There are blade servers based on these chips too, and you can pack a lot more low power blades into a box without cooking everything. Wasn't there a story linked here a while back about how MIPS/Watt is a more important performance metric for huge server farms?

    The number of humans that can outcode GCC is vanishingly small, and even smaller when you have to do keep track of all sorts of parallel dependencies and such. If I had to guess, I would say their problem is that they don't have the necessary capital to do the software development they would need to make this idea really fly. This seems like more of a research project than a business plan, maybe if they enlisted more support from the community by openning things up GPL style, it might have a chance.

    If you are going to make chips, you should concentrate your investment on designing and making the chips, not the software. I'm sure they could do another design cycle in more modern fab technology and get much more speed (or lower power if that is the priority).

    Also, my impression is that they aren't sharing a lot of board level IP either. There are lots of applications that are getting StrongArm and other low power processors that would be an ideal market for them, but these are all small companies without a lot of bucks to risk with new designs. OTOH, if you give them a basic design that uses your chips, and sell cheap prototyping parts and support gear, your going to get a lot more inquiries. Would this be enough to turn it around for them? I don't know, but would you bet your company on Billy G. deciding to endorse tablets? Even if they are successful, the danger is that Intel can swoop in and steal the market. You're much better off staying small and concentrating on the emerging niches. Specifically, the embedded market where Linux is already a good fit and doing well.

    Too bad, though, it was a good idea, but the timing was bad. They still have some investment money that hasn't been spent, but it would be difficult to change direction now.

  14. Table PC's are good for medical but what else? by sterno · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Except for a few limited fields, tablet PC's are really not ideal. They are well suited to any field where you need some portability, and expect to be doing more data viewing than entry. The field that is most obviously well suited to this is the medical field. There you have X-rays, tests, etc, that can all be loaded from a central server and you only need to make small annotations. You need some portability, but not much.

    The problem is that not many fields really fit that bill. You usually want either total portability or very limited portability (thus making the laptop or PDA a good choice). Furthermore you sacrifice a lot of your ability to do data entry on a tablet PC with only a limited gain in portability. A well designed PDA is actually far superior for data entry because I can use a thumb keyboard and enter data quickly. A tablet requires one hand to hold the thing, and then the other to do data entry.

    I've used them and I've found that, for the most part, they are solving a problem that I've never had. I suspect that it's a problem very few people have, so except in a few niche fields tablets aren't going to be a big thing. So buhbye transmeta.

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  15. I left Transmeta June 2001 by ddt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What they needed then and need now is a comprehensive, grass-roots developer support program and to get humble quick about the power and performance.

    It's a nifty freaking technology, and it was a LOT of fun to play with. Did you realize that the Crusoe during the launch party was the fastest native picojava bytecode processor in the world? Did you realize that had they exposed an interface to CMS (code morphing software), that someone out there could have written a PowerPC personality for it, allowing it to run both x86 and PPC apps at the same time? Can you imagine what else you could do with access to this incredibly powerful, real-time, back-end compiler? Did you realize that you could decode, issue and retire two integer ops and an MMX or fp op on every cycle, the same decode rate as a modern Athlon and a faster decode rate than the P4? Did you realize that all the tech is in place to allow you to download CMS upgrades that vastly improve performance? Did you know they have a perf monitoring tool that puts vtune to shame? Did you know that using gdb connected as a cross-debugger, you can hit "ctrl-C" in an NMI handler or anywhere else and get a complete dump of the internal processor state, including numerous perf statistics?

    Tip of the iceburg for the current core, and their next generation architecture (TM8x00) is SO MUCH COOLER. Like hella-cool with chocolate sauce.

    But you probably didn't know any of this because they don't think developers are their #1 customers. Someone there needs to watch Ballmer do his developer dance.

    Crusoe's are cool. Transmeta was cool, too. Working there was like working down the hall from about a dozen John Carmacks. You could walk into any one of these offices and be blown away by what they were working on. They were crossing real-time translation and optimization bridges that Intel won't be getting to in years but will eventually have to face.

    Microsoft learned long ago how important developers were. That should have been the main market to chase. Crusoe wasn't ready for the masses, not by a long shot. The performance is catching up with a vengeance with every new core, but they made so many promises and IPO'd on so much hype, that they entered the classic promise debt trap that so many dot-coms fell into, and their lofty marketing plan claiming that benchmarks are "wrong" (please!) and that it offers this brilliant power savings are just goofy.

    Had they remained lean, not staffed up to 400+ people from the 150ish they had when I joined, and stayed quiet, humble, and in the service of developers until developers helped propel them to mass marketability, they would not be the laughing stock they are today.

    Yes, they hoped to be faster than "native" x86 based computers by morphing to VLIW, but what they didn't realize was that there would be a terrible price in instruction bandwidth. They ended up with a lemon, made lemonade, then added red food coloring and called it wine.

    If they exposed an API to CMS, I think they would be truly impressed by the tricks that independent developers could come up with to compress their own instruction stream to make the compression ratio competetive with x86 code footprint.

    Do you realize that's really the main performance problem with Crusoe? The instruction bandwidth! On average, x86 instructions, because they're variable width and byte granularity, are 6X smaller than the average Crusoe instruction, which is made up of two or four 32-bit atoms in the current architecture.

    OK, that's too darn bad, but it's the youngest surviving newcomer to the x86 market, and this is a solvable problem, and "with many eyeballs, all problems become shallow," once said a bright chap who ought to put his foot down and say it again.

    Tablets: I made the demos that ran on tablets for their shows and IPO roadshow. They're cute, fun, no market for them yet, but again, something to get in the hands of developers so that they can make killer apps to create a market for tablets.