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The Pentagon Wants Your Secrets

Teknogeek was one of the many readers to point out today's New York Times report on what one submitter dubbed "Son of Carnivore." "This should scare you: Vice Admiral John Poindexter wants to create a supercomputer capable of hunting through electronic databases all over the world, looking for suspected terrorists. According to the article, Poindexter outlines a need to '"break down the stovepipes' that separate commercial and government databases, allowing teams of intelligence analysts to hunt for hidden patterns of activity with powerful computers.'" Update: 11/10 16:15 GMT by T : Here's an updated link to the (no-registration) Arizona Star. Update: 11/24 17:42 GMT by T : Thanks to expiring links, here's another updated link to the NYTimes story.

9 of 540 comments (clear)

  1. Re:This guy sounds like a real.... by Imperial+Tacohead · · Score: 4, Informative

    This guy still has a job? Wasn't he implicated in some Reagan scandals way back in the day? Shouldn't he have resigned in disgrace by now?

  2. Alert: INCOMPLETE ARTICLE! by xyzzy · · Score: 5, Informative

    The original link cited in this article points to an truncated version of the original NYT story. For a more COMPLETE version, use this link:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/09/politics/09COM P. html

    (it's more than twice as long, with much more information)

  3. Want to fight this? Support the EFF. by updog · · Score: 5, Informative
    From the EFF website:

    The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) was created to defend our rights to think, speak, and share our ideas, thoughts, and needs using new technologies, such as the Internet and the World Wide Web. EFF is the first to identify threats to our basic rights online and to advocate on behalf of free expression in the digital age.

    Other than bitching about it on /., you can take action, and join this organization which will help fight against this type of privacy invasion.

  4. Re:Scary Quote from Article by Imperial+Tacohead · · Score: 5, Informative

    I wouldn't be so sure. Private enterprises will surely object to the inconvenience, not to mention the huge potential for abuse; this is not to mention the fact that I'm sure many companies don't want it slipping out exactly what details of your life they know. For once the corruption of the government should work for us: lobbyists from major private firms will hopefully be enough to counterbalance the military's influence in this matter.

  5. Re:Poindexter IS a convicted felon by goombah99 · · Score: 5, Informative

    You are sort of right. I went and looked it up. True his conviction was overturned on appeal. But the reason was not because he was innocent. Rather the grounds for overturning the conviction were that his testominy before congress had immunized him from prosecution. He is a convicted felon. He just had the conviction overturned but no one, no even poindexter or oliver north, denies he committed a felony.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  6. Poindexter Biography shows he can do this by goombah99 · · Score: 4, Informative
    Education Ph.D., Physics, California Institute of Technology, 1964
    M.S., Physics, California Institute of Technology, 1961
    B.S., Engineering, U.S. Naval Academy, 1958 Experience Summary
    Brings a unique blend of experience to problems from the highest levels of government to the laboratory. Demonstrated exceptional management and command ability ranging from naval operations to the national security of the United States. Noted for creative solutions to difficult issues and ability to quickly grasp the essence of new tasks. Goal oriented. Professional Background DARPA Information Awareness Office, Director 2002 - Present
    The mission of the Information Awareness Office (IAO) is to imagine, develop, apply, integrate, demonstrate and transition information technologies, components, and prototype closed-loop information systems that will counter asymmetric threats (most notably, terrorist threats) by achieving total information awareness: enabling preemption; national security warning; and, national security decision making.

    SYNTEK Technologies, Senior Vice President 1996 - 2002
    SYNTEK is a small high technology firm with contracts in domestic and international defense and commercial business. Poindexter was responsible for high-level advice on management and direction of information systems projects (for example Defense Advanced Research Project Agency's Project Genoa).

    TP Systems, Inc., Co-founder 1990 - 1996
    TP Systems was a software development firm specializing in commercial software for the IBM PC's and compatibles. Poindexter was the chief designer and programmer. Development included a symbolic debugger for multi-tasking environments, a BBS communications program plus numerous utility programs.

    Elkins Group, Consultant 1993 - 1996
    Elkins was a business alliance with Electronic Data Systems (EDS), has developed Elkins Interactive Training Network (EITN), a satellite based training delivery system that has world-wide marketing potential. Poindexter was the Chairman of the Maritime Advisory Committee and a member of the Board of Directors. He also provided advice on strategic planning.

    Presearch, Inc., Senior Scientist 1988 - 1989 Presearch had primarily been involved with defense studies and analysis. Faced with anticipated defense budget reductions, Poindexter joined the firm to develop new

    ....
    and so on. No where does he mention his crimes.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  7. What the traditional media seem to leave out... by gilroy · · Score: 5, Informative
    Blockquoth the article:

    But Poindexter, national security adviser in the Reagan administration,

    later convicted for his role in the Iran-Contra diversion of monies and coverup. Poindexter's conviction was overturned on appeal -- but don't let that fool you into thinking the appeal court cleared him. Instead of dismissing the conviction, they ordered a new trial. Luckily for the Admiral, President Bush the First pardoned him, obviating the retrial.


    This is the sort of shady character we want implementing any sort of information system?? Have we decided that the only way to beat felons, thugs, and barbarians is to hire some of our own?

  8. Posse Comitatus Act by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 5, Informative

    This will violate the Posse Commitatus Act of 1878.

    http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1385.html

    Sec. 1385. - Use of Army and Air Force as posse comitatus

    Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both

    Now if Congress allows this, it's perfectly legal. I doubt it will happen, there are some privacy activists in the Senate and House.

    http://www.homelandsecurity.org/journal/articles /T rebilcock.htm

    "The original 1878 Posse Comitatus Act was indeed passed with the intent of removing the Army from domestic law enforcement. Posse comitatus means "the power of the county," reflecting the inherent power of the old West county sheriff to call upon a posse of able-bodied men to supplement law enforcement assets and thereby maintain the peace. Following the Civil War, the Army had been used extensively throughout the South to maintain civil order, to enforce the policies of the Reconstruction era, and to ensure that any lingering sentiments of rebellion were crushed. However, in reaching those goals, the Army necessarily became involved in traditional police roles and in enforcing politically volatile Reconstruction-era policies. The stationing of federal troops at political events and polling places under the justification of maintaining domestic order became of increasing concern to Congress, which felt that the Army was becoming politicized and straying from its original national defense mission. The Posse Comitatus Act was passed to remove the Army from civilian law enforcement and to return it to its role of defending the borders of the United States."

    http://www.dojgov.net/posse_comitatus_act.htm

    http://law.wustl.edu/WULQ/75-2/752-10.html

  9. Yes, it's the Iran/Contra Poindexter by Animats · · Score: 5, Informative
    Yes, but he got off on appeal because Reagan refused to declassify some information needed for his defense.

    See the Independent Counsel's Report on Iran-Contra: "Poindexter in April 1990 was convicted by a jury on five felony counts of conspiracy, false statements, destruction and removal of records and obstruction of Congress. The Court of Appeals reversed his conviction in November 1991 on the immunized testimony issue."

    The White House has defended Poindexter's current role. When asked in a February 25 press conference about the new appointment, White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer said, "Admiral Poindexter is somebody who this administration thinks is an outstanding American, an outstanding citizen, who has done a very good job in what he has done for our country, serving the military." He was then asked by veteran White House reporter Helen Thomas, "How can you say that, when he told Colonel [Oliver] North to lie?" Fleischer disagreed and said, "I understand. The president thinks that Admiral Poindexter has served our nation very well."

    This is a real worry. It hasn't appeared much in the mainstream press, either.