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Boosting Battery Life For RISC Processors

prostoalex writes "National Semiconductor and ARM Holdings will jointly develop the power management solution for RISC chips, that they estimate will improve battery life by 25-400%. The target date of the first sample product is Q2 2003." My old Tadpole laptop sure could have used this. I counted myself as lucky when I got a whole 45 minutes out of a battery.

35 of 113 comments (clear)

  1. ultra low power consumption cpus by gTsiros · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I once had this link to research done on cpus, which are designed from the ground up to be VERY low power. Consider this: they saved power at the *gate* level!

    --
    Looking for people to chat about multicopters, coding, music. skype: gtsiros
    1. Re:ultra low power consumption cpus by e8johan · · Score: 4, Informative

      That is one method of doing it (turning of clock trees to shut down a set of gates). One other way is to adjust the supply voltage and clock frequency to the CPU core. As ARM allready utilizes clock gating, the voltage/frequency technique is a very viable option for even more efficient CPUs. I'm usually not a big fan of Intel's, but look at their XScale and the measures they've taken to preserve energy. I have to say that I'm impressed!

    2. Re:ultra low power consumption cpus by gTsiros · · Score: 3, Interesting

      no, actually, the energy to turn "on" a gate is returned to the "power supply" when said gate turns "off" :) Very l33t i might say...

      --
      Looking for people to chat about multicopters, coding, music. skype: gtsiros
  2. Great move! by e8johan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When developing portable devices the most limiting factor today is not processing resources, memory or anything such. It is simply the power source.

    Batteries of today are either too weak or too heavy. How ofter does one have to choose between a slim-line battery or an ultra-long life.

    There have been many suggestions for competing technologies such as fuelcells, harvesting of motion energy and solar cells to mention a few. But still, they have proven to be too expensive, large or have some other problem (such as not being ready for production use yet). Hopefully these one of these, or any other, portable power sources will make it possible to carry real computing power without having to carry a heavy battery pack.

    The solution today is to reduce the power usage. This can be done by shutting down parts of the clock trees in the CPUs, or by using Intel's PowerStep (i.e. two working speeds), or Transmetas's variable voltage and frequency technology, LongRun. As the article lacks technical details we can only guess about the techniques used behind the PowerWise solution. Also, the figures 25-75% efficiency gain is most probably measured under special conditions.

    But, in order to avoid sounding too negative, it seems like the industry has realized the problem and are working for a solution. I feel that most of today's solutions (power saving) are just a cure for the symptoms (bad battery time), not for the cause (bad battery technology).

    1. Re:Great move! by clickety6 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Perhaps another approach would be to reduce requirements on the PC power by writing software that is less bloated and more efficient and is geared towards a portable solution. There really should be no need for my laptop to have a 1 Ghz chip just to run some word processing and spreadsheet software. Nor should the computer need 250 Megs of memory just to start up and run some windows. We should eb using nutcrackers to crack our nut, not a pile driver!

      --
      ----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
    2. Re:Great move! by e8johan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Very true. Look at this for a laugh. A minimal installation will take approx. 120MB of disk space and 40MB of RAM. I can't help wondering what they are doing over there (at M$).

    3. Re:Great move! by e8johan · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How is it then that we do not see standard CPUs with custom portable devices?

      You are correct when you say that backlit displays, disk drives, CD players and such consumer much power, but so does also all transistor switches (from on to off and the other way around). The sheer number of transistors and the incredible frequency of these switches makes the CPU one of the power hogs in a portable system today.

    4. Re:Great move! by e8johan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "dont expect the battery life of a portable device improve by 100% when the power the CPU consumes goes down by 50%"

      I don't, but Amdahl's law apply here too, reduce the biggest factor. You probably get a better yeild if you attach the CPU than any other device. These companies tend to evaluate the problems before attacking them (even though it doesn't seem so all the time).

    5. Re:Great move! by SmittyTheBold · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The solution today is to reduce the power usage. This can be done by shutting down parts of the clock trees in the CPUs, or by using Intel's PowerStep (i.e. two working speeds), or Transmetas's variable voltage and frequency technology, LongRun. ...or, by using an architecture that does not require as many useless (er...extra) transistors and is therefor more efficient to begin with. Witness the PowerPC, for example. In particular, the G3 is amazingly efficient in the desktop form.

      Compare, for example, the G4 at 11.5 million transistors, (I am not sure about the current G4e) and the P4 at 42 million (once again, this is an old number - recent P4s may have a different count). Is it any mystery, then, why the G4 uses so little power in comparison?

      I'm not discounting your ideas totally here - I'm just saying there is more to saving energy than throttling the CPU.

      In response to your last line - "most of today's solutions (power saving) are just a cure for the symptoms (bad battery time), not for the cause (bad battery technology)" - I have to say that although batteries are a hindrance, they are not much of one at the moment. Portables currently dissipate quite a bit of heat. If you increase the power they use (and increase the power given to them) you increase heat output, which is bad. Current laptops are about like holding a lightbulb against your lap. Are you sure you want that to be increased?

      The real limits with laptops these days have more to do with dissipating the heat they already produce than powering that mess. Upgrading batteries is not a solution to this, while more efficient processors are.

      --
      ± 29 dB
    6. Re:Great move! by e8johan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have to agree that the P4 is a monster when it comes to transistor count and the PowerPC and the derivates are amazing. However, there will always be idle parts of the CPU core that can be shut down during different periods (for example fp ops.). Just since you have a simple (as in beatiful, optimized, etc) architecture does not mean that you should not further improve it by using state of the art optimization methods.

    7. Re:Great move! by SmittyTheBold · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm not saying (or at least didn't intend to say) that the G4 is a perfect architecture, not that is has no room for improvement. I'm just suggesting that performance tweaks like those used in the P4 are a bit like worrying about the aerodynamics of your '57 Chevy. Sure, you can add a bit of fuel efficiency, but there are far greater gains to be had.

      --
      ± 29 dB
    8. Re:Great move! by jonbrewer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      by writing software that is less bloated and more efficient and is geared towards a portable solution.

      Last I checked, the older versions of WordPerfect still worked... And there's always vi. :-)

  3. Ugh. by archeopterix · · Score: 4, Funny
    Here's the marketspeak-filtered cache, in case it gets slashdotted:
    We are developing technology to optimize battery use in portable devices.
  4. Re:They're ripping off Transmeta by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    [BLOCKQUOTE]
    According to the article:

    Arm's Intelligent Energy Manager solution implements advanced algorithms to optimally balance processor workload and energy consumption, while maximizing system responsiveness to meet end-user performance expectations.

    Transmeta's only claim to fame for their chips was using software to reduce power consumption, and it worked -- obviously, the Intelligent Energy Manager is just a ripoff of Transmeta's design. Linus should sue. [/BLOCKQUOTE]

    Umm, no? These aren't CPUs used in computers and laptops.. these are used in handheld devices and embedded applications. I develop for ARM personally and the "algorithms" (note: they do not say software) is simply silicon embedded within the processor.. not software that runs on the processor itself.

    As the poster mentioned, I doubt this will affect any laptops. I don't know of any that run off ARM cores.

  5. More detail at ARM's web page by doug363 · · Score: 5, Informative
    ARM's press release has some technical details in it:
    http://www.arm.com/news/powerwise1111

    They're basically targetting mobile phones and similar embedded systems like PDAs, because this is where ARM's main market share is at the moment. They say that they're looking at a more system-wide approach than is currently used, and they want to standardize the embedded software/hardware interface as part of this.

    Also, note that "samples available Q2 2003" doesn't necessarily mean actual silicon. ARM doesn't make chips, they license their designs out to other companies which use them as a basis for an actual chip, so a "sample" quite likely means a software simulation. Actual devices which use this technology probably won't be around until 2004 at least.

    1. Re:More detail at ARM's web page by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think it's interesting to note that they use cellphones as a typical example of improvement.. however, the micros in cellphones use a fraction of the power. The vast majority of power is consumed by the RF transmitter, as evidenced by the amount of battery life you get while making a phone call as opposed to standby operation.

      25 to 75% baseband power savings probably amounts to no more than 10% total improvement on battery life. Marketing fluff?

    2. Re:More detail at ARM's web page by doug363 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Certainly, even a huge reduction in processor power usage probably won't do anywhere near that much for overall power usage. However, they're anticipating a massive blowout in power usage by the phone's microprocessor in the next few years. As I'm sure you're aware, there's a move towards adding all sorts of significant enhancements: video conferencing, larger colour screens, interactive content, etc. They think that this could increase processor power usage by up to 10 times without some sophisticated power management. I don't know accurate this is, but since this stuff is probably aimed at ARM's customers, i.e. mobile phone designers, I'd guess that they'd better provide some significant saving in overall power usage before anyone would use it.

      I'm not sure on what the transmitter's power requirements are like with 3G phones, or (hypothetically) ultra wideband phones... Does anyone know how they compare to GSM phones? I know that the max allowed transmitter power of a GSM phone varies a lot between countries.

  6. Obligatory Simpsons Quote by VTg33k · · Score: 3, Funny

    "...that they estimate will improve battery life by 25-400%."

    "Aw, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. Forty percent of all people know that."
    -- Homer Simpson

  7. Merits of RISC by EggplantMan · · Score: 3, Funny

    I always thought RISC was inferior, that's why it lost out to CISC and went the way of the dodo. Who wants a reduced instruction set anyways? That's why it always lagged in the floating point benchmarks. I look forward to the day when our CISC processors are even better equipped - with an instruction for every conceivable operation.

    --

    ?-|||-----x<*))))><
    1. Re:Merits of RISC by e8johan · · Score: 3, Informative

      "always lagged in the floating point benchmarks"

      This lagging is not due to flaws in the ISA (instruction set architecture). Todays CISC cpus (atleast the post-Pentiums and Athlons) are RISCs with a CISC shell.

      The expansion of instruction sets have two drawbacks: 1) bloated designs and 2) more and more complex compilers. That is why RISC is leading the way (in a CISC suite) and CISC is degraded into keyboard controllers etc.

    2. Re:Merits of RISC by dcoetzee · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yes, wouldn't it be wonderful? Instead of compiling down to LISTS of instructions, we compile every program down to a SINGLE instruction, designed in hardware to do whatever that program does. The speedup would be immense. Admittedly, there would be some pressure on hardware designers. Personally, I still think all hardware should be implemented in software...

    3. Re:Merits of RISC by Fembot · · Score: 3, Funny

      ...compile every program down to a SINGLE instruction, designed in hardware to do whatever that program does.

      Q: "Why is your code full of bugs Mr Jones?"
      A: "Don't blame me its a harware issue"

      For once developers could say that and still be telling the truth :-)

    4. Re:Merits of RISC by e8johan · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The points were indicating the drawbacks from expanding instructions sets (further). I understand that it can be read as being a part of the conclusion, but I did not intend it that way.

      When discussing what ISA the compiler sees I can't help wondering how efficient code a compiler could emit if it gained access to the risc cores of a P4 or a Tbird? Maybe it is time to introduce another mode (after protected mode of the 386): RISC mode (or, as intel's marketeers would call it PowerMode(tm) :])

    5. Re:Merits of RISC by e8johan · · Score: 3, Informative

      Each CISC instruction is transformed into a set of RIST instructions. These u-ops (micro-ops, Intel lingo) are then dynamically resceduled and register renaming and all such techniques are applied. I don't know if the P4 can manage out of order comitting, but the instructions are issued and executed in arbitrary order.

      This gives that the internal state of the CPU will be complex and dynamic. This does however not indicate the there are no optimizations that can be made by removing the CISC abstraction layer.

      For example, all fp operations on x86 CPUs emulate a stack based maths co-processors, which is implemented with real registers. Direct access to these can improve quality of the code tremendeously. When saying this, one must remember that the P4 bashes most CPUs in fp benchmarks, and can, most likely be even better with direct access.

      To sum things up: I do not understand how you can say that a CISC layer does not slow the system down and that the ISA is "almost irrelevant". I have interpret that as pure ignorance.

  8. Asynchronuous logic? by Koos+Baster · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In line with the low-power paradigm gaining momentum within CPU designs, asynchronuous design is often mentioned in the context of battery life. Apparently, the ARM processor seems to be the (only) architecture used for innovative CPU designs.

    Is this really the case, and if so, why? (Obviously CISC architectures are far too complicated to fine-tune in a drastic manner - other than building a Crusoe-like RISC chip and emulating the whole thing.)

    Moreover, is power consumption (and not primarily performance) after all those years, going to be the criterium that's going to decide the RISC-CISC issue in favour of RISC?

    1. Re:Asynchronuous logic? by e8johan · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'd say that SPARC VI and VII will be more innovative (article here). I must say that ARM is not the *only* architecture used for innovative CPU designs. In academia I've seen both MIPS, SPARCs and custom designs to show/implement special innovations (vector co-processors, async logic, etc.) Usually small subsets of commersial CPUs are used for the truly innovate designs. (IMHO)

    2. Re:Asynchronuous logic? by KeggInKenny · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I know that the University of Manchester was designing an asynchronous Arm-binary compatable processor (here). Now that is has been shown to be feasable to do RISC in asynch, maybe big vendors will start to take notice.

      A bit of (greatly simplified) background for those who havn't looked into this. The huge decrease in asych power consumption (at least using CMOS) is becasue the MOSFETs discipate (sp?) power during voltage level changes. Many transisters in sychronous chips change state every clock pulse, but changes are much more isolated in asynchrouns chips. I predict (in my infinite wisdom, and using my crystal-ball-of-infinite-wisdom) that RISC based asynch will get much more powerful and fast as companies like Intel, Motorola, etc put more money into reasearching this previously forgotten/niche field.

      Probably they'll only be used in portable systems at first to conserve power, but maybe if design techniques progress, we'll see them in desktop PCs or even some heavy metal systems within 10 years or so as other benifits becom apparent... But even my crystal-ball can't say for sure.

      -- below is opinion, don't read it if you're an easilly offended Republican or supporter thereof as you may be unintentionally offended - damn -1 flaimbait modders... --
      I wouldn't count on much (US) government research money or grants going into it while Bush is president though... I don't exactly think he's interrested in energy conservation...

      --

      "A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, there's no question about it." -George W. Bush
    3. Re:Asynchronuous logic? by e8johan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Another advantage of the ARM is the Thumb instructions that reduces the traffic over the memory bus. We must remember that driving memory bus is an expensive operation (power wise) compared to finding data in the cache. Smaller code means more code in the cache. One problem is that multimedia applications (such as movies, music, etc) fails to utilize the cache well (since the data isn't re-accessed). This is a problem area that needs more research.

  9. Potential is there by NutMan · · Score: 3, Informative
    I think there is a lot of room for improvement here. For example, TI has a family of RISC microcontrollers that use a tenth of a microamp in sleep mode, but only take 6 microseconds to wake up due to an interrupt.

    In typical usage, there is a lot of time that the CPU is doing nothing. Design one that can take snoozes for as little as a millisecond at a time with insignificant latency and you can save a lot of power.

  10. The market decides... by jonr · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It is a simple question of market laws. The x86 architecture is the ruling class, therefore it gets most of the research money, and as a results has the fastest running processors.
    When the ARM came out, it blowed the 386s (The top x86) and 68020's out of the water. We were talking 3-4 times faster. And when the ARM3 came out with it's cache, it really kicked 386 ass.
    And remember the Alpha? Another RISC design that was way ahead the rest. The only one left is the PowerPC family, still holding on to the x86 juggernaut.
    And programming the ARM was a bliss. 13 general purpose registers, the barrel shifter. (Do a arthimetic and shift in the same instruction) Conditonal branching... It was a real joy. The x86 assembler is what programmers do in hell.
    J.

  11. 25 - 400% ? by Roofus · · Score: 5, Funny

    That's a nice range there.

    Me: Hey Jim, we're throwing a party at your house tonight.

    Jim: Great! How many people are gonna come? I need to know how much beer and hoes to pick up.

    Me: Oh, plan on somewhere between 25 and 400.

  12. Re:Ummm... maybe they can learn from... by class_A · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As an old Acorn user who switched to Mac back in 1998, I can safely point you to this fact without appearing anti or pro Apple/IBM/ARM.

    "ARM Company Milestones: ARM History - 1985 - Acorn Computer Group develops the world's first commercial RISC processor"

  13. There's RISC and RISC by melonman · · Score: 3, Informative

    > My old Tadpole laptop sure could have used this.

    I think the type of RISC processor might have something to do with the power consumption. ARM has always concentrated on frugal at the expense of fast.

    --
    Virtually serving coffee
  14. Re:Obligatory Simpsons misQuote by MacAndrew · · Score: 3, Funny

    You're giving statistics a bad (worse) name. Get your HomerStats straight, that was 14%.

    "Internet. They have that on computers now?" -- HS
    "Is the poop deck really what I think it is?" -- HS

  15. Basic engineering math gentlemen... by ctimes2 · · Score: 3, Funny

    You have to take the unknown value of x hours of battery consumption and apply it to the estimated average of the inverse expected increase in n.

    x = 1/n(25%/400% - y) where y = battery life now (say 4 hours).

    x = 1/n(16% - 4) [.16 - 4 = -3.84)

    x = 1/n(-3.84)

    1/3.84 = n .26ths of an hour increase in average expected battery life, or about 15 minutes. This is how you keep your job as an engineer... :)

    [this is a joke. this is only a joke. these numbers may be interperated by completing the square in a quadratic equation]

    --
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