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Stan Lee Sues Marvel Comics
night_flyer writes "In a story that demonstrates the way the entertainment industry manipulates its artists, Marvel is claiming that the 400 Million dollar blockbuster movie Spiderman produced no profits, and they are trying to weasel out of their contract that gives Stan Lee 10% of the profits from his creations. Nuff Said!"
That's a load of crap. You pay a man an honest wage for an honest days work.
Seems like these things have been going on in the comic book industry from the beginning tho.
. Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
Surely the studio should cut its losses, and not make the proposed sequel then.
Shareholders should be complaining to the board as you read this.
Pop stars are getting ripped off, developers are getting ripped off, fishermen are getting ripped off, the fire department are getting ripped off, etc, etc, etc
Dont mean to sound despotic, but Stan, join the queue
After all, he didn't do anything important re: Spiderman. All he did was develop the idea in print, nurse it along for years, pour his sweat and blood into it, bring respectability to a substandard art, etc.
The studio did the hard part. They hired the lawyer to screw Stan! If that isn't worth the 10% I don't know what is.
Time's fun when you're having flies. - Kermit the Frog
the artist steve ditko should receive some credit and money too. Unfortunately, none of the press seems to care that he is a co creator.
Then here you go:
Spider-Man creator sues Marvel
NEW YORK, Nov. 12 -- The creative force behind Spider-Man, the Incredible Hulk and the X-Men filed a $10 million lawsuit Tuesday, charging his old comic book company is cheating him out of millions of dollars in movie profits. Stan Lee, who crafted a menagerie of superpowered heroes with very human flaws, now claims Marvel Entertainment Inc. has tried to shut him out of the "jackpot" success of this summer's "Spider-Man" movie.
LEE'S ATTORNEYS filed court papers in Manhattan federal court, claiming that Marvel signed a deal to give their client 10 percent of any profits from his characters used in films and television shows.
"Spider-Man" has been the year's biggest hit, grossing more than $400 million domestically -- but the 80-year-old Lee says he hasn't seen a penny.
"Despite reaping enormous benefits from Mr. Lee's creations, defendants have failed and refused to honor their commitments to him," the lawsuit charges.
Marvel has reported millions of dollars in earnings from the film but has told Lee the company has seen no "profits" as defined by their contract.
Lee hopes a judge will intervene and make sure he gets a percentage of profits from the Ben Affleck movie "Daredevil," based on another of his creations, scheduled for release in February.
He also seeks a share of profits from the upcoming movie "The Hulk," and the sequels to "X-Men" and "Spider-Man."
The lawsuit demands damages and a court order forcing Marvel to turn over Lee's share in any profits from movies about characters he created.
Marvel issued a statement saying Lee "continues to be well-compensated" for his contributions to the industry. It said the company is "in full compliance with, and current on all payments due under, terms of Mr. Lee's employment agreement."
"Spider-Man" stars Tobey Maguire as the teenage superhero, Willem Dafoe as the villainous Green Goblin and Kirsten Dunst as love interest Mary Jane Watson. A sequel is due out in 2004.
Huge Economic Success due to Spiderman, but Peter Parker can't benefit because:
* Check written in Spiderman's Name
* False agency
* Peter's sense of morality (and flashbacks of Uncle Ben) prevents him from accepting check.
* Etc etc.
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
Maybe we should remove all copyrights on fictional written works for a while? The industry is creating a false sense for would-be-artists that they can make a good living doing what they excel at, but most of them don't get anywhere due to mismanagment and greed. So - copyrights have largely ceased to benefit those who create the works of art.
Why then should we feed the corporations with gullible, naive people out to change the world?
I also get increasinly mad at people who continuously get money because their granddad was a good writer. That somehow is very wrong - as in, all people should have equal opportunity and equal responsibility.
Copyrights on factual works is a bit of a different story. We have not understood the world sufficiently well to do something that drastical to the science community. However, patent reform is direly needed if our industry is going to start growing again - with real growth, not just growth based upon more effective court-room tactics.
Stop the brainwash
This sounds a lot like DC's dispute with Alan Moore over Watchmen. (Doesn't DC own Marvel now?). Basically, Alan Moore (one of comics writing gems) created a wonderful story that made DC millions. Posters, T-shirts, coffee mugs sold like hotcakes, and Alan Moore got zilch (even though he was entitled to royalties and such). DC said the Posters, et al were "advertising" and thus were not subject to the royalty clause, thus legally screwing Alan Moore. It was that event that caused Alan Moore (a UK citizen) to quit writing for US based comics altogether for a good long while (until the advent of some of the more independent labels who actually treat their artists right). I may have some details a bit fuzzy, but I believe that's the gist of the story. (There were apparently other factors that also led to his "retirement" from US comics, as well).
:P
A google search didn't come up with anything substantial, but I seem to recall an interview with him in Comic Shop News or the other big weekly comic paper, maybe I'm just smoking crack regarding this. Might be best to disregard this.
If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
The Supreme Court of the US ruled more than ten years ago that the tradition of the US movie industry is well-known to cheat its stockholders and others by accounting tricks that reduce `profit' to zero -- at least on the books.
It's a little like Enron in reverse -- cooking the books to remove all traces of return.
It's quite legal and easy for them to do, and it has been the tradition in Hollywood since it began. And that's how the SC ruled in a case brought by a(n other) writer of one of the Predator series of Movies IIRC. In that case, like this one, Stan seems to have gotten percentage `points' (in Hollywood jargon) instead of real dollars.
The studios find it easy to do this, as they can charge whatever they like for stock footage (stuff they've already shot and used in other movies) since they are the true producers, whatever the credits might say. And all movies use stock footage somewhere. F'rexample, the fire scenes in Gone with the Wind have been used (and charged for at inflated prices) in hundreds of movies.
This and `distribution costs' allow them the room to reduce the booked profits on any and all projects to zero.
The Predator movie the Court ruled on was, at the time, the largest grossing (worldwide) movie in history. And it never made a profit.
Neither did Goodwill Hunting or Titanic.
OK, there's a little more info here.
Namely, that the source of the claim is not from any copyright or other rights as creator of the characters, but from a 1998 contract giving him royalties for the licensing of his creations, but not the actual comic book sales.
Looks like it's going to be a legal wrangle over whether movie profits can be considered to be royalties.
How can we afford to ever sleep
So sound again
--ebtg
Remember young Jedi..."percentage of the gross".
That's how Sir Alec Guiness, a man well used to the ins and outs of the film industry, managed to get his money. I believe Peter Cushing got the same deal, although I may be wrong in that. Percentage of the gross, not percentage of the profits.
Cheers,
Ian
My mate Al is going to kill me for slashdotting his site but:
This is one of the best articles I've read on this situation. It helps if you have some idea of the US Comics industry but Paul O'Brien is a good enough writer to make it all crystal clear. FWIW, Paul is a UK Lawyer.
http://www.ninthart.com/display.php?article=428
Sorry, should've held the parent post until I found the contract.
The pertinent clause is:
(ii) You also continue to have the benefit of a single full-time assistant. (f) In addition, you shall be paid participation equal to 10% of the profits derived during your life by Marvel (including subsidiaries and affiliates) from the profits of any live action or animation television or movie (including ancillary rights) productions utilizing Marvel characters. This participation is not to be derived from the fee charged by Marvel for the licensing of the product or of the characters for merchandise or otherwise. Marvel will compute, account and pay to you your participation due, if any, on account of said profits, for the annual period ending each March 31 during your life, on an annual basis within a reasonable time after the end of each such period.
Note that profits are explicitly mentioned.
How can we afford to ever sleep
So sound again
--ebtg
The "piracy" problem must be even worse than they're admitting....
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
Some public information from Marvel's 10-Q SEC filing in this PDF:
"7. SPIDER-MAN: THE MOVIE
During 1999, the Company entered into a license agreement with Sony Pictures Entertainment, Inc., ("Sony") providing for the licensing of the Spider-Man characters in exchange for a gross participation in the marketing of the Spider-Man: The Movie (which was commercially released on May 3, 2002) and related releases on DVD/VHS and likely other revenue sources (e.g., syndication sales, etc.), and established an equally owned joint venture for the merchandise licensing of the Spider-Man: The Movie characters.
Earnings associated with the Company's participation in the gross proceeds of the movie have been recognized as non-refundable advance royalty payments as received, which amounted to $10 million in 1999, and $2.5 million in the second quarter of 2002. During the quarter ended September 30, 2002, Sony reported Marvel's participation through such date at approximately $2.0 million in excess of advances previously received - which amount was subsequently collected from Sony. Prospectively, additional movie royalties will be recognized as revenue - as reported by Sony. Earnings associated with our merchandising joint venture (accounted for under the equity method of accounting) amounted to approximately $1.8 million during the three month period ended September 30, 2002, and $7.1 million during the nine months ended September 30, 2002, and represent the Company's share of merchandising royalties, net of expenses. The Company's share of the joint venture's earlier losses were $0.3 million in each of the years 2000 and 2001."
Millions in revenue, but no profits?
"For every right, an equal responsibility..."
This is usually how rookie unproven writers get screwed, especially authors who have had succesful novels. This is unfortuantly very common in the movie industry. Established names usually never have a problem getting Gross Points instead of Net Points, they are real tight with Gross Points because there are only so many of them to go around (Gross Points also count as an expense driving down the pool available to Net Points). I don't get why Stan didn't have a better entertainment lawyer.
I mod down any one who says "I'm sure I will get modded down for this"
That should be:
- Make blockbuster movie
- ????
- No Profit!
- Profit!!!!
Be wary of any facts that confirm your opinion.
You pay a man an honest wage for an honest days work.
But... but, that's not the American way! The American way is all about pleasing the shareholders.
Um, no. That is the corporate way. The American way is an honest wage for an honest day's work. The fact that America let large corporations hijack its government and undermine its constitution during the anti-communist ferver of the cold war may mean America kneels beneath their jackbooted heels, but it does not mean that corporatism is the ideal to which the country aspires.
Quite the opposite, in fact, and a backlash to this sort of crap is brewing.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
That's why you NEVER agree to take a cut of the profits. You take a cut of the gross revenue. That way there can be no accounting games.
Remember, You are unique...just like everyone else.
Spiderman is one of the many movies that I actually went to a cinema to watch... why? because I respect Stan Lee, and I would rather let him have part of my ticket proceeds rather than pirate the movie off Kazaa or something.
But when shit like this happens, I wonder whether it was worth it. It's amazing how 400mil is not enough to be considered profitable. Last I checked the movie didn't cost a billion bucks to make (I don't think it even costs 500mil).
Thanks Sony... I'll repay you with my unlimited bandwidth.
Welley Corporation - SLM Scammers
Say you have a fleet of limos sitting around to drive executives/actors around. Ah, let's put that all on Spiderman... don't want to lose corporate profit by giving out higher royalties than you absolutely need to. Etc...
The incredibly stupid thing here is that Stan Lee has control over a rather large field of 'intellectual property' that said movie studios may want to draw on in the future, not to mention the sequel(s) of current films.
Imagine... Stan Lee's contract terms for Spiderman III: "5% of gross ticket sales and, oh yeah, %5 of gross ticket sales of Spiderman 1&2 you f%&#$!!!"
Peering into my crystal ball...
StanLee: You owe me $40 million.
Marvel:Well, we calculated that 30 million copies of Spiderman were downloaded via peer-to-peer programs...
StanLee:..and..?
Marvel:
Trolling is a art,
That sounds great on the surface, except that it doesn't work that way in real life, because corporations don't pay taxes, as such- they pass them on to others. Who really pays taxes when they're levied on a corporation?
Now, I know you may not care about the last one, but when you tax a corporation, you're really punishing the very people you rely on to spur the economy.
I would start to tax coorporations and individuals in similar manors
A tax, any tax, removes currency from the economy and places it in the government, where some of it may come back into general use again. The state of the economy is not how rich the government is, but how rich the populace is.
so that the little guy, the driving force behind the economy, has more money to spend to keep the economy going.
The "little guy" does very little one way or the other in the economy, or in taxation now. Folks who would fit into this category aren't likely to invest cash into new businesses or technology. They definitely aren't going to actually hire someone.
Right now coorporate tax law dictates that coorporations do not pay income tax, they pay a profit tax, in other words, no increase in net worth, no taxes.
Are you under the impression that corporations don't pay taxes by the truckload?
Even a small coorporate income tax would provide enough government revenue to reduce the tax burden on the american consumer, and stimulate the economy.
Lost you on this point... You want to raise taxes on the folks that produce the goods that the consumer's are going to buy from? Umm, who do you think actually pays for that? The money that companies pay in taxes really does come from somewhere. You and me.
This would also make it much more difficult for companies to dodge their financial obligations to the government (see what Marvel is doing to Stan).
A tax increase would have given Stan a better contract? You really lost me on that point. Care to work the logic that brought you to that conclusion please?
The line must be drawn here. This far. No further.
Even simpler (well, not really simple considering you'd be fighting vested interests) would be trim the damn budget by the 30-50% the GAO estimates is wasted / lost / stolen by the gov't every year. Gov't bookkeeping makes Enron's look honest. The solution wasn't giving Enron more money, and the solution isn't to give the gov't more money either. Let them learn to live on what they've got.
Marvel has learnt from its past mistakes and no longer simply takes a step back from their film properties. They have a subdivision "Marvel Films", or something to that effect, which involves this guy being on the set to every single Marvel film property. From what has been released, Marvel gets a profit slice, not just a flat licensing fee.
Oh and by the way, Sony Pictures made the movie and it cost about 100 million to make. It took in 800 million at the box office worldwide thusfar and is the 7th highest grossing film of all time. It earnt an estimated 245 million in it's first week on video release. So out of this billion dollars, yeah, I'm sure Marvel only got "$12 million or so".
s200.org - visit it (me), love it (me).
I'm a little guy.
36K a year working tech support in Portland OR.
My last surviving parent died in early March. She had been running the family farm that'd been in the family since 1952.
Before G.W. Bush - Estate (Death) Tax would have left me with $12,250 from the Estate.
Since G. W. Bush - Estate (Death) Tax left me with the money to finish college and hopefully build a strawbale home in 2003.
So personally, I feel the President's tax cuts are helping that little guy.
To all you people babbling about films not making profits, and how Stan Lee should have negotiated for a percentage of the gross, let me make it simple:
1. Stan Lee's contract is with Marvel, and
2. Marvel licensed the intellectual property to the movie studio.
3. Marvel's lawyers knew enough to negotiate for gross points, therefore
4. Marvel made a profit, and
5. Stan Lee is therefore entitled by contract to 10% of Marvel's profits.
The contract dispute is not with the movie studios who, however evil, have done nothing particularly wrong by Lee. This is all about Marvel trying to redefine those profits.
that the entertainment industry makes no profits from movies... If they did, they could afford to go to Washington and lobby for digital copy protection laws that would threaten our fair use rights...
Whew... What a relief!
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!