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Longhorn Server Scrapped

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the moving-to-whistler dept.

punkass writes "Microsoft announced Tuesday that plans for .Net Server, aka "Longhorn" have been scrapped and they will instead focus on the the release after that, code-named Blackcomb. NT4 came out in 96, 2k in 2000, and Longhorn was due out in 2005-06...Blackcomb seems to be a long time between releases."

30 of 468 comments (clear)

  1. scraped? by Hank+Scorpio · · Score: 5, Funny

    Plans have been scraped?? Ow! That must hurt!

    1. Re:scraped? by Tsar · · Score: 5, Funny

      Plans have been scraped?? Ow! That must hurt!

      That would make it a planed release, wouldn't it?

      Actually it makes sense. Remember Gattaca? They were probably just scraping off the Windows DNA to hide its defective genetic code.

    2. Re:scraped? by dildatron · · Score: 5, Funny

      If so, do you think they would release the beta/code?

      it is scheduled for open source release just after hell freezes over. don't ask stupid questions.

      --


      If you had nuts on your chin, would they be chin nuts?
  2. This is good. by Penguinoflight · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The longer Microsoft has between releases, the longer Linux has to come up with great releases. Just think how many security patches there will be between 2000 and blackcomb... that's not fun and sysadmins know it.

    --
    "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
    1 John 4:14
    1. Re:This is good. by Jeppe+Salvesen · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Security patches are to be reckoned with. However, the long interval between new Windows server releases means that there will be large differences inbetween versions. If there's something that the IT departments don't like, it's large differences. That means that there are more things that may go wrong. Their current business logic software may even need a complete rewrite if the changes are large enough.

      So - I really have to wonder what crack Microsoft is smoking. They seem to be desperately out of tune with their users in the server market, and the Linux acceptance is proof. Professional users like backwards compatibility, and incremental changes. That is something UNIX and Linux provides.

      Look at OSX, too. After their initial release, they've been spewing out evolutionary releases and bug fixes.

      So, by having such large new server releases, they are raising the stakes for everyone - both themselves and the corporate users.

      Oh well. I don't mind if Microsoft loses power and influence..

      --

      Stop the brainwash

    2. Re:This is good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      However, the long interval between new Windows server releases means that there will be large differences inbetween versions. If there's something that the IT departments don't like, it's large differences.

      Not to mention accumulating cruft in the exsting releases.

      Anyone here have to put up with NT4.0? Between option packs and service packs and patch rollups and old 4x CD-ROMs, correctly installing an NT4-based IIS server was basically an all-day affair. Not to mention numerious things that could be screwed up, leaving goatse-sized security holes. Not even MS could keep the hotfixes straight.

      Then Windows 2000 comes, which is great, but requires an order of magnitude more network planning for Active Directory. Many places still haven't bothered.

      The key bit is the next server release after 2003 is when MS will scrap classic LanMan/NT4-style networking. At that point many customer networks are going to break, and they might just as well switch to something cheaper (Linux). MS might have wised up and chose to push that date out as far as possible.

      It's a dual-edged sword -- MS got into the server market for being simple, cheap, and partially autoconfiguring. Then big customers start demanding lots of complexity, and you end up with expensive, complex, and requiring good admins. Novell never quite survived the introduction of NDS -- it will be interesting if MS does better with AD.

    3. Re:This is good. by 4of12 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      They seem to be desperately out of tune with their users in the server market

      It's because they don't compete in a normal market anymore.

      When you essentially own a marketplace, such as they do with desktop PC operating systems, then you can make a lot more decisions that your customers don't like but have to accept because the alternatives have disappeared or are considered too drastic (MacOS, Linux, etc.).

      Actually, the competition they seem to be desperately out of tune with their users in the server markethey've endured trying to enter the server market has been good for them and their customers: each revision of NT was compared with UNIX. Early revs were laughable, but MS had a target to aim towards in terms of reliability and scalability. Finally, with Win2K they have something where they don't get laughed out of the room anymore. I doubt whether it would have been as a good product as it is without the competition.

      They face a more serious threat in the future with their server operating systems. If they strongly leverage their desktop dominance in Windows and Office, then they can insure their servers are the only brand that works in a networked environment.

      But if services are standardized and commoditized, which is what customers really like for their effects on price and quality (as in the PC hardware market), then open source flavors of UNIX will have already eaten their server marketplace for breakfast when they finally trot out some shiny chrome-plated Blackcomb .NET product that "does everything and more".

      --
      "Provided by the management for your protection."
    4. Re:This is good. by ergo98 · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Security patches are to be reckoned with. However, the long interval between new Windows server releases means that there will be large differences inbetween versions. If there's something that the IT departments don't like, it's large differences...So - I really have to wonder what crack Microsoft is smoking.

      Obviously not as potent as the stuff you're smoking. Here are the facts as I see them. Please feel free to disagree.

      • IT departments HATE non-stop tiny changes, each of which requires new testing, and likely breaks several of their applications. This can be seen in the reality that many shops still use NT 4.0 even with its successor 2000, and its successor XP, available. Hell, most IT departments shun at even installing service packs.
      • Microsoft has oft been berated for doing what Apple now is the champion of, which is pushing minor changes as new versions (see 95, 98, 98SE, Me) and getting people to pay up. People don't like being "behind" when applications start using some esoteric feature of XP that adds little value, but suddenly renders obsolete their 2000 base.
      • Because Microsoft has moved at such a rapid rate, many organizations have simple ceased moving with them: By the time they get a plan together and start to act, they're behind again. There are still a large number of organizations that aren't using Active Directory. There literally is such a thing as being too-rapid in your development (at least in areas where users and IT have to move with you) because the early-adopters will give up, and the late adopters will always feel that something better is just around the corner.

  3. Longhorn isn't .NET server by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 5, Informative

    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Longhorn is the codename for the next general Windows release, ie meant for the desktop, it's not .NET Server which is something entirely different and without any of the SQL based filing system stuff

    1. Re:Longhorn isn't .NET server by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Informative

      Correct. .NET server is effectively Windows XP server. It's based on the XP codebase and it sure as hell isn't being scrapped, we have a beta installed on a test server right now and it's almost complete (mainly just the documentation needs to be finished).

      Longhorn is the next OS. So MS is going forward with the deskto version for 2004, but is pushing the server version back.

    2. Re:Longhorn isn't .NET server by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Windows XP is a client-only OS, there is no XP Server (nOt a Matrix-reference!)
      Windows .Net Server 2003 is the (server)followup to Windows 2000 Server.
      Windows XP (Pro) is the followup to Windows 2000 Workstation.
      And Windows XP Home (finally!) 'replaces' Windows 9x.

      JB

    3. Re:Longhorn isn't .NET server by netringer · · Score: 5, Informative

      You're right. Bill Gates himself talked about Longhorn last week on the Charlie Rose show.

      He said it's a "bet the company" project he's leading for a new easier to use desktop OS where all of the applications have the same easier to use user interface.

      The idea is for example, viewing a picture would use the same user interface as listening to a music source.

      --
      Ever dream you could fly? Get up from the Flight Sim. I Fly
    4. Re:Longhorn isn't .NET server by ink · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The idea is for example, viewing a picture would use the same user interface as listening to a music source.

      Oh, kinda like WMP8 then. A horrible interface that takes up 200% of the screen real estate as the media that you're viewing, with built-in software to "protect the user" from copying images from one medium to another all the while promoting Microsoft-patented media formats on the net.

      I can't wait!

      --
      The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
    5. Re:Longhorn isn't .NET server by sys$manager · · Score: 5, Funny

      This made me nearly shit my pants when I read ".NET Server is being scrapped" in the story. I am in the final stages of a book on .NET Server Security (okay, have a good laugh) and if they had cancelled .NET Server I would have been screwed.

  4. yup by MonkeyPaw · · Score: 5, Funny

    Microsoft announced Tuesday that plans for .Net Server, aka "Longhorn" have been scraped and they will instead focus on the the release after that, code-named "Foghorn".

    --
    My studio - www.graylands.ca
    1. Re:yup by Clover_Kicker · · Score: 5, Funny

      >>Microsoft announced Tuesday that plans for .Net
      >>Server, aka "Longhorn" have been scraped and they
      >>will instead focus on the the release after that,
      >>code-named "Foghorn".

      >Foghorn Langhorn? Now boy ... you're doin' it all
      >wrong!

      Ah say, them boys are about as sharp as a bag full o' wet mice.

  5. Hell ... by NWT · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... even Debian releases faster. HeHe

    --
    Life sucks.
  6. Not .NET Server... by Anonymous+Commando · · Score: 5, Informative
    Longhorn is the successor to .NET Server. .NET Server is currently at release candidate 1.

    <ob_editor_bitching>How about a little fact checking, eh?</ob_editor_bitching>

    --
    Corporate Jenga: You take a blockhead from the bottom and you put him on top...
  7. .Net server is not Longhorn.... by Dot.Com.CEO · · Score: 5, Informative
    ...and it has definitely not been scraped. It is in final beta stage, actually.

    Longhorn refers to the next version of the Windows Server OS. I sometimes wonder whether the editors do any fact checking or even read the articles...

    --
    Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
  8. Who Needs a Whole NEW Microsoft OS? by ausoleil · · Score: 5, Funny

    After all, we have auto-updating now, and since Microsoft is completely dedicated to battling Linux, et. al, with the lower Windows TCO, no one will need to pay for an upgrade cycle for years! In fact, all of the Windows administrators who've installed SP3 can now rest easy knowing that the boys and girls in Redmond are diligently uploading security patches, bug fixes and feature enhancements to your machine when-ever and where-ever it needs it.

    Isn't life great, MCSEs? No more staying up all night reconstructing servers, praying that the tape backups were current, etc.

    I wouldn't know, though. I changed my systems over to Red Hat, and keep up with the errata, and amuse myself by opening a sessions and typing in "uptime" ...

  9. .Net Server hasn't been scrapped by theinfobox · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you read the article, it is the version AFTER .Net Server that has been scrapped--code name Longhorn. .Net server has already shipped Release Candidate 1 and RC2 should be out shortly. The final .Net Server should be out next year. Longhorn server and desktop versions were due out in 2004. Since it take corporate environments a couple of years to roll out a server upgrade, MS figured .Net Server would never get implemented by most IT departments(i.e. they wouldn't sell many copies of .Net Server).

    Now, MS is just going to skip the Longhorn release in 2004 and instead go to the Blackcomb release.

  10. Some people are screwed by alen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Didn't all those people who signed up for the subscription did so on the premise of a new upgrade every 2 years or so? So now MS gets to take their money and no product to show for it.

    Maybe not enough people signed up?

  11. Nice excuse for bad software engineering by Stonehead · · Score: 5, Funny

    The delay "is a response to what our customers are asking for."
    I want to have customers like that..

    1. Re:Nice excuse for bad software engineering by Saxerman · · Score: 5, Funny
      The delay "is a response to what our customers are asking for."

      Dear Microsoft,

      Could you please skip meaningless releases of your software? We'd only like to pay for your 'upgrades' if they contain features that are actually useful. Thanks.

      --

      A steaming cup of soykaf would be real wiz right now.

  12. Let's skip them, and do it ourselves. by ka9dgx · · Score: 5, Interesting
    The goal of the next version (as I understand it) is to allow virtual folders, so that you can search everything with a common set of tools.

    Let's build a virtual folder driver for Windows 98 and upward, to allow APPLICATIONS to virtualize the information they manage. It would be nice to have an email manager than presents emails as a list of files, or folders. Sending could be as easy as copying files to a folder, and then specifying an address. (To.txt?)

    A virtualized database would present a list of folders in place of a table, with the fields being individual files, some read only (sequence numbers, keys, etc). To update the data, you just write to the file containing the appopriate field. If you wanted to add a field, you just copy a new file into the folder.

    There is great power in letting an APPLICATION control the virutalization of the OS, this is why the idea of GNU/HURD is important for the future.

    If APPLICATIONS can virtualize, then you get a freedom to innovate that would give Bill nightmares.

    Virtualizing the address space for existing millions of users and applications could do more to help freedom to innovate than pretty much anything it's going to take Microsoft years to come up with.

    Who's with me?

    --Mike--

  13. I don't know, this makes sense to me... by iiioxx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Personally, I don't know why Microsoft would have released .NET server next year, and then followed a year later with Longhorn. It doesn't make any sense. Every shop I've ever worked in or worked with as a consultant had a general rule of never upgrading Microsoft's server platform until it had been out for at least 6 months, if not a year. By the time these guys finished doing a deployment of .NET, Longhorn would be hitting the streets. At least by pushing the schedule back to Blackcomb, they are getting to a more reasonable timeline.

    Personally, I think Microsoft should maintain a 4 year release cycle on their server OS, and a 2 year cycle on the desktop OS/productivity suite. Anything shorter and you are going to outrun your customers. I mean, if you are running a big, multisite network with 2000+ users, do you really want to deploy an OS upgrade every year or two? Hell, I know of at least one large, multinational company that is still standardized on NT 4.0 Server and Windows 95 (and as far as I know, they are going to milk it as long as they can). Besides, a 4/2 cycle is pretty close to your average lease times on hardware, which simplifies deployment since you can time your OS upgrades with your hardware upgrades (at least, on the desktop).

    The only thing Microsoft gets by releasing a new OS every year is a lot of people skipping versions. Maybe they finally clued in to that fact?

  14. Windows NT corrections by Joe+U · · Score: 5, Informative

    Actually, Windows NT 3.1 (the first release) was a multi-cpu architecture operating system that ran on Intel, Mips, Alpha and eventually the PPC platform. It was Posix compatible and compatible with most well behaved Windows 3.1 apps. It had a version of Office for it and even a TCP/IP stack before the Internet was popular.

    I'm not sure what OS you're talking about, but it wasn't Windows NT.

    I won't even begin to get into the fact that longhorn was supposed to be a point release and not a new revision. (This would be Windows NT 5.2 if MS marketing didn't ruin a perfectly good version numbering scheme) (BTW, .net server is Windows NT 5.11, expect to see it in about 6 weeks.)

  15. What Kind Of Name Is "Blackcomb"? by limekiller4 · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Internet Explorer." Ok. Explains what it does. "NT". Ok, it's an acronym of sorts. People like those. "XP," same thing except it uses the letter "x" which people just adore in acronyms. "Intellimouse." Sounds nice and maybe people will think they become brighter when they use it, good call.

    "Blackcomb"?

    Marketroid #1: "Ooo! Bob! I have it! We'll combine the word 'black' -- dark and insidious -- with the word 'comb,' which is something that most of the people using our services pine longingly for the use of!"
    Marketroid #2: "Jesus, Tim, you're a !@#$ing genius! I love you!"

    --
    My .02,
    Limekiller
  16. Re:Analyst kisses up to MSFT, Film at 11 by gosand · · Score: 5, Funny
    This is utterly bizarre - only MSFT can get away with cancelling a major release and not undergoing a hailstorm of criticism in the trade press.

    That is because Microsoft trademarked the word "Hailstorm".

    Look for these other upcoming releases:

    "Insecure (tm)"

    "Monkey-manageable (tm)"

    "Vulnerable(tm)"

    "Bloated(tm)"

    "Unstable(tm)

    "Internet(tm)"

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  17. Re:The beginning of the end? by Jason+Earl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The funny thing about innovation is that it happens everywhere. Take the upcoming version of MS Office which touts two technologies that have debuted in Free Software first. The XML formats for Office are nothing more than a ripoff of OpenOffice's XML formats, and Outlook's new virtual folders are lifted directly from Evolution and it's VFolders.

    There is no question that Free Software is doing a lot of mimicking of commercial products, but that is simply because Free Software hackers are building a desktop from scratch. It's pretty tricky to build a word processor that doesn't look like MS Word, or a spreadsheet that doesn't resemble Excel. Especially considering that one of the major goals of these projects is to get people to switch to the Free Software products. Part of convincing people to switch is making the transition as easy as possible.

    When you get outside of the desktop, where Free Software has to copy Microsoft to even be considered, then it is clear that Free Software has done quite a bit of innovation. The reason for this is simple, with Free Software you don't have to start from scratch each time you have an idea. Instead you can add a bit on to an already existing product.