Review: EyeTV

EyeTV from El Gato Software is a USB peripheral housing an MPEG-1 encoder, a TV tuner, and coaxial and RCA inputs, and accompanying Mac OS X software to operate the tuner and record and playback programs, saving the data to your local hard drive. In less geeky terms, it is a digital video recorder for your Mac. Boffo. OK, there's nothing exactly unique about a DVR for your computer. But this one is made for Mac OS X, and it works with any Mac OS X box that has USB.

I've been using it for a couple of months now. I schedule it to record The Daily Show four nights a week, along with all my Sunday political shows, so I can watch (er, listen to) them as I work. I turn the news on in the middle of the day. I watch hockey games while I am working late. And because I have a big ol' 160GB FireWire hard drive, I can save a lot of programs without worrying about deleting (one hour takes 650MB at standard/VCD quality, and 1.3GB at high quality). And if I have Toast, I can burn VCDs directly from EyeTV for posterity.

The performance is fine. Because the MPEG encoder is in the EyeTV box, most of the performance drag is where it has to be: playing back movie files, and writing them to disk. I keep EyeTV hooked up to my house file/web server (a PowerBook G3/500 which also serves as MP3/CD/DVD player and -- now -- television), and when I go on the road, I merely copy a bunch of programs to my laptop. Warning: watching Trigger Happy TV on the subway can be a bit dangerous; people think the abandoned aluminum foil hat under the bench belongs to you.

To view a recording on another computer, you Save to QuickTime Movie from EyeTV, or you can install another copy of the EyeTV software on another computer, and copy the EyeTV files over.

If you want to copy individual recordings, either bypassing Save to QuickTime Movie (the movies will play just fine in QuickTime Player), or copying selected recordings to your other EyeTV folder (instead of all of them), it can be difficult to locate the right files: the filenames don't really tell you anything about what's inside. So, I wrote a command-line utility to search the recordings.

Also, it is difficult, but not impossible, to edit programs. QuickTime tools don't allow for editing MPEG-1. You can "export to QuickTime", but you won't be able to edit the resulting file. What you'll need to do is demux (I use bbDEMUX) the file into separate audio and video streams, then convert the streams and merge them back together.

I convert the demuxed audio to AIFF with SoundApp (under Classic) and then put that file in the same directory as the demuxed video, one called "movie.aiff" and the other "movie.m1v", and when I open the video in QuickTime Player, it merges them together automatically (a nice time-saver). Then I export it to MPEG-4 format. This process can be very tedious, and is prone to failure for large files, but it can be done.

I did have problems for awhile with EyeTV not saving recordings. I had set my drive to spin down, and EyeTV wouldn't properly spin it up; I changed my Energy Saver prefs to not sleep the disk whenever possible, and the problem was solved. There are some other minor glitches: for instance, the software allows the screen to dim and screen savers to come on during playback, and there is the occasional crash (which happens less with the latest release of the software). Also, as the resolution is 352x240 (regardless of quality setting), I don't want to use it to watch programs that demand high resolution. I'll record those on the DirecTiVo.

But really, the only serious problem I have had with EyeTV is the scheduling. You can use the TitanTV service via a web browser, which is a nice idea, but it is often incredibly slow, such that finding the program and manually adding it can be less frustrating, if not faster, than going through the browser.

The service has improved recently, so maybe it won't be much of an issue anymore for some people, but for me, a better solution is Karelia's Watson, which is similar to Apple's Sherlock, but better in most respects (more and mostly better tools, and faster). The new version of Watson (1.6, released Tuesday) has new buttons in the TV Listings tool, one for "watch," one for "record," and even one for adding the program to iCal. I use Watson to quickly find the program I want, I hit the right button, and EyeTV is ready to go. You can't beat that with a stick, although it will cost you another $29 for the privilege, if for some insane reason you've not yet purchased Watson.

I also use EyeTV to digitize other video sources; you can play back something from your TiVo or VCR and record a copy to take with you on your next trip. I have a Meade telescope with an electronic eyepiece, so I can record the moon. Mmmmmm, moon.

EyeTV isn't perfect; the software could use some improvement, it could be easier to convert to an editable file format, and the resolution could be better (which will require updated hardware, perhaps using FireWire). In the meantime, I could live without EyeTV, but I wouldn't want to. It's a nice device to have.

Comments

Naming question

[American AC in Paris]

This product was designed for use with MacOS X.

This product can also be used to record full length motion pictures, which is piracy as far as certain industry groups are concerned.

Thus, shouldn't this product be called "iEyeTV"?

Re:Naming question

[miTTio]

A pirate walks into a bar, with a steering wheel on his crotch.

The bartender brings this to the pirate's attention.

The pirate replies: "AArghh! It's driving me nuts!"

Some other owner comments

[bbk]

You can find some other comments by owners Here .

The general feeing is that the drivers aren't up to snuff yet, but it's a neat idea and a relatively nice to work with.

BBK

Re:Some other owner comments

[faster]

El Gato makes Toast for Roxio (long story truncated: the Toast guys quit, Roxio begged, they said "we won't be your employees, but pay our company and we'll keep working on Toast"), so it will get better. They do have a clue about creating great software.

USB 1.1

[batboy78]

Does USB 1.1 have the bandwidth to store HDTV signals into MPEG-1? I have used a WinTV USB Tuner before for video capture, and I must say the framrates weren't that good.

I would like to see a firewire or USB 2.0 device that is platform independent. That way I would never miss another episode of Smallville again.

Agreed - good stuff

[Anonymous Coward]

I have been using Eye TV, on a PowerBook G3/500 as well, for a few months. The first couple releases of the software were "too slow" - recordings came out with pausing and other glitching - but between OS X improvements and ElGato's improvements, it's working perfectly fine right now.

I've only used it to record VHS video tapes. I generally don't watch TV at all, and don't care much to know what the current schlock on TV is. But I do want to save the VHS video tapes onto a more permanent medium. A good thing is that it even records tapes that are Macrovision encoded.

The quality isn't superb, but the price is right.

Formac (http://www.formac.com) has a box that claims higher quality, similar features, and connects via Firewire. It has a higher price too.

- David

Saw it...passed

[droopus]

I saw EyeTV at Macworld NYC during the summer. I had my credit card out to buy one, but saw the MPEG1 quality, and put the card away.

I have a couple of Tivos and the EyeTV quality is well below even the lowest quality I can get on my Tivo. I would rate it at about the same level as a decent telesync of a film...no better. I asked why no MPEG4/Divx compression and didn't get a decent answer.

Also, I don't want to watch TV off my Mac, even on a Cinema Display. I could stream it to my tv using Qcast but then what's the point? Might as well just buy a Tivo.

I'm the most gullible of early adopters and I didn't buy EyeTV. Hopefully it'll improve in time.

I did however buy the very cool Powermate volume knob that they were using to control EyeTV. That's turned out to be a neat gadget, and really nice for film editing.

Re:Saw it...passed

[jdcook]

Am I the only one who looked at the Powermate knob mentioned inthe parent and wondered about Tempest on MAME?

Re:bitrate limitations

[jolshefsky]

Umm ... USB is limited to 12 megabits/second or 1.2 megabytes/second which is about 10 times faster than low-quality VCD (150 kilobytes/second) and about 5 times faster than high-quality VCD (about 300 kilobytes/second.)

You might be thinking of low-speed devices which run at the slower 1.5 megabits/second if I recall correctly ... I haven't seen one, though.

Re:What about satellite users?

[mgs1000]

Okay, this is what you do:

1. buy an ethernet card for your Tivo http://9thtee.com/

2. Install it, and the software that comes with it

3. Add the module noscramble.o (find it on the dealdatabase.com forums)

4. Install TyTool on your computer to extract the mpeg-2 video to your PC(find it on the aforementioned forums)

try formac's firewire solution

[redherring22]

the Formac Studio/TV does this but it has firewire and with much better quality. Yes, it's 2x the price of El Gato's recorder, but the quality will probably make it worth it.

Re:try formac's firewire solution

[scrypt]

The only problem with this approach, is that you will need a much, MUCH larger hard drive to record to. The Formac device stores video in DV format, which eats up 1gb for every 4 min. of footage. So, unless you just plan on recording commercials (or you have/plan to buy a large RAID), you will be better off with something that compresses the signal.

Re:try formac's firewire solution

[mr100percent]

Sure, I've used the formac DV Studio. It comes in 2 flavors, one with an FM tuner, and one without.

It's got all you want, RF, S-Video, and Composite In and Out for all them. It's firewire and DV, so Final Cut Pro and iMovie can import the DV, even from a TV show. Qualitywise, it's DV so depending on your video source, it should look pretty good, very high quality copying.

Formac makes its own program to watch TV in a window, floating or regular, and lets you record channels on a schedule.

The OS X software, at the moment, sucks. There is a lag between changing channels and the change, and it eats up 80% of the CPU time on a Powerbook G4 800MHz. Recording a show is straight into DV-size uncompressed .mov files, unless you set otherwise. Recording just takes almost all your processor and HD use to keep up, which it does. A half-hour show gives me over a gigabyte of data, which I got Quicktime Pro for me to crunch down to smaller size (like MPEG-4, which does wonders).

Luckily, Formac announced they're working on a updated OS X version of the software, availible this month, which I eagerly await.

Get Watson 1.5

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought one of these the FIRST day they came out. I had been waiting for a good TV tuner for Os X for a while. The software support is very good, they come out with new updates all the time. And it has gotten better and better over time. They are promising new features soon. Although it can be used as a PVR, i never used it, because i HAD to use IE to get the stupid little files from TitanTV. The site is slow and the process sucks.

I just got Watson 1.6 (came out yesterday) and it RULES. Using the TV section when you find a show you want to record, click on it, then click on the EyeTV icon and it will set it up to record, it works GREAT!

Give it a try, i'm actually using it as a pvr now...

To "store?"

[fireboy1919]

Perhaps you mean does it have the bandwidth to transmit MPEG-1 encoded video?

The answer is yes. More than enough for NTSC size and resolution. WinTV USB just sucks, and AFIAK it transmits uncompressed video.

A better question is exactly how much is done on the hardware before its transmitted to the computer. Its likely that the device merely does mjpeg encoding, which is then enhanced to full mpeg using software (because the motion component requires knowledge of several frames - more frames in memory means much higher cost for the device). If mjpeg is all it does, then this means that hacking it to Linux might require more work than otherwise (because you can do mjpeg more than one way since its just an intermediate step on the road to mpeg encoding, and not necessarily following a standard).

Re:Great, except I don't want to make a Mac

[l33t j03]

Problem is the 32" flat panel TV is actually a 15" Optimus TV/VCR combo that he pretends is a 32" flat panel.

See, thats why the Mac would be the focal point.

Answers to slews of dumb responses

[jolshefsky]

First, the MPEG-1 stream they're getting is VideoCD quality. VideoCD quality was designed to come from 1x CD-ROM drives which spit data at 150 kbytes/s which leaves plenty of bandwidth on the 1.2 mbytes/s USB.

Second, the picture quality is pretty low, but the files are "small" (i.e. the same as raw audio CD or about 600 mbytes/hour.) In all, it looks like VideoCD quality. It's better quality than a lot of QuickTime movies on the web, but a far cry from DVD, or even Sorensen on a good day. But it's good enough. I'd rank it around the quality of a 5 year-old VHS tape at EP. Far from videophile acceptability, but also far from unwatchable (unless you're a real snob about it.)

I happen to own one and I didn't have aspirations to download copies of movies and be able to watch them at DVD quality levels. It's so far worked fine to watch (oddly exactly the same as the reviewer) the Daily Show at work. I was looking for a quick way to create time-shifted copies of a handful of shows I watch. I also want to rip VHS tapes recorded at EP in 1995 and before to VideoCD and this looks like a great solution.

So anyway, my main point is, the tradeoffs are acceptable, and it's nice that it's bus-powered and includes its own tuner along with a video input.

MacAddict Review

[NutMan]

MacAddict had a review of EyeTV and also MyTV.

They liked EyeTV as well.

Dazzle Hollywood DV Bridge

[red_dragon]

For those who'd rather have a FireWire device, there's the Dazzle Hollywood DV Bridge, which I've been wanting to buy for some time now. The DV Bridge, however, is bidirectional (D->A and A->D), has S-Video and Firewire ports, doesn't have a TV Tuner, and goes for about $100 more, making it more geared towards video editing than just video recording á la TiVo.

Re:What about satellite users?

[Anonvmous Coward]

This link might be interesting to you:

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/snapstreammedia/cablep acks.html

Snapstream is a PC-based DVR. This is their solution to the satellite question. I'm not sure what it does for Mac, but it does show that Satellite users are not left out. :)

I bought one recently, the quality is OK

[5n3ak3rp1mp]

...but I have tended to avoid TV recently, so my standards are not that high =)

It's neat as a PVR. Not the greatest quality, but good enough for me. The 1.5 second delay from live is too bad- I wanted to use it for gaming, too. But that delay is the cost of being able to pause live TV, instant replay your live TV, etc...

Tip- Register for my.yahoo.com, configure the TV listings, then just manually set programs if you don't have or want to use IE.

There is no technical reason why EyeTV *needs* IE. All Titan/IE does is download a file with a certain protocol that EyeTV is listed as a helper for.

My conclusion is it's worth the 150 bucks I spent on it. (Now if only Formac, or someone else, would EVER deliver OS X drivers for my dead ProTV card...!)

MPEG-2 PCI card for OSX

[Anonymous Coward]

A better alternative to EyeTV is available from the Japanese company Pixela. They sell a PCI capture card for Mac OSX featuring built-in TV tuner and s-video and composite inputs that captures in both MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 up to 12Mb/s at full DVD resolution 720x480. The english language page is at http://www.pixela.co.jp/en/press/captytv_pci.html

oh boy.

[hrieke]

If the TV execs. hated Tivo and company, El Gato just became target number one.
It's one thing if the process to record TV is see as technically hard, but this thing will allow your mother to do it- and that's where the execs will start to worry. It's too simple...
I'm guessing that you can edit out the commericals, compile a season of a TV program and send it around the world in nothing flat.

I'm Going to TRY to make this clear For EVERYONE

[Anonymous Coward]

EyeTV uses a HARDWARE ENCODER, can you say hardware?

This device ENCODES and then sends the ENCODED mpeg1 video to the computer using usb at 1.2 megabytes per second.

Lets do some math:

if one hour of mpeg1 = 650 megs then:

650 / 60(mintutes) / 60(seconds) = 180555.6 bytes

you following me?

now the correct bandwidth that we need here is 180kBps. I think USB can handle that, don't you?

I hope we are all informed now, and i don't see anymore: "USB can't handle that" or "every USB tuner i've seen SUCKS"

cause its a HARDWARE ENCODER.

Thank you for your time.

You don't need it.

[pantherace]

if you are building a linux box for PVR, use mencoder to capture DIRECTLY TO DIVX/MPEG4. Last night I captured an episode of smallville directly from cable, and it looks great.

CPU usage was about 50% on one cpu (800 MHz P3 (box is dual) filesize is 374.5MB (using default VBR mp3 and a vbitrate of 800 (default)) it can be reencoded to a lower bitrate and nearly the same quality if you turn vhq on (Very High Quality) in mencoder (note this is without commercials taken out (57 minutes, most shows are about 43 mins with them out so: about 280 MB with commercials edited out.

Box used: dual P3 800
256MB RAM
ATI TV Wonder VE (~$30 when I got it)
mplayer/encoder 0.90pre10
redhat 7.3

Command line used (or one that has been used, not sure this is the EXACT one I used for smallville):
mencoder -tv on:driver=v4l:width=320:height=240:input=0:norm=NT SC:outfmt=rgb32:freq=83.250 -oac mp3lame -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4 -o test6.avi

This comes with a disclaimer though, there isn't a nice frontend to recording to mplayer. freevo (freevo.sourceforge.net) is working on easy recording though.

Re:What about satellite users?

[swb]

I don't know about satellite, but I wish there was a more open standard for digital cable tuners. I'd like to see them included in TVs, VCRs, Tivos, or other devices, even if it only means "closed" non-PC devices (ie, no capture cards, I wouldn't count Tivo as a PC, others may disagree).

I hate the idea of having to pony up $8 per TV for tuners. It'd be great if they could be integrated into the device directly.

I don't know how practical this would be -- I'd imagine that there are multiple digital cable standards out there (Motorola, Scientific Atlanta, etc) and probably little desire for a common standard.

I'm also curious about the economics to the cable company. While I'm sure my SA2100 box wasn't $500 in bulk to the CATV company, I can't see them making a profit off the box @ $8 per month for at least a year, maybe two.

If I could take a few weeks off work and had a few thousand to spend, I could do a decent job of rewiring my house and get a couple of TVs per CATV tuner box, centralized Tivo, etc, but not now.

Re:USB vs. Firewire

[Twirlip of the Mists]

Whether the device uses USB or not probably has nothing to do with quality of the encoded material. As I said in another post, broadcast TV only uses 8 Mbps (of MPEG-2), so the 12 Mbps available over USB is plenty. (Assuming you're not sharing that particular bus, but that's obvious.)

Now, your experience may simply have been with crappy devices. But that doesn't necessarily mean that USB sucks.

I mean, USB does suck, but just not in this particular way.

A better solution....

[z-kungfu]

...is the studio/tv from formac. It's firewire so you can get much better throughput, and OSX.
http://www.formac.com/p_bin/?cid=solutions_conve rt ers_studiodvtv
It beats the EyeTV hands down.

Hauppauge supports OS X

[Spencerian]

Hauppauge supports Mac OS X under their MyTV product line from their Eskape Labs division.

MacAddict recently did a review and comparison of EyeTV (which I also use) and MyTV. EyeTV was easier to use and had a stronger value in their opinion. I was waiting for MyTV to get its drivers out of its eternal beta stage by the time EyeTV showed up.

Re:Hauppauge supports OS X

[Tumbleweed]

> the WinTV PCI cards can take 1600x1200 stills!

That's interesting - but what are they taking those nice 1600x1200 stills _from_? NTSC and PAL aren't anywhere NEAR that kind of resolution - not even CLOSE (like around 1/4 that resolution). So what they're really doing is taking the image and scaling it up. Shit, you could do that better in the GIMP or Photoshop, so that's hardly a big deal.

Re:IE

[Anonymous Coward]

The instructions for setting up Mozilla with TitanTV & EyeTV are available from

http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/FileSharing.w oa /wa/default?user=bscholln&templatefn=FileSharing.h tml&aff=consumer&cty=US&lang=en

I'm also setting up a small section on EyeTV on

http://bschollnick.phpwebhosting.com/digital

- Ben

Editing can be easier than that

[SirOgre]

From EyeTV, export to quicktime movie.

then use this killer utility to split the file (at time intervals) and rejoin components.

Much easier than what you are doing, IMO. I've been recording Simpson's episodes for a month now and I delete the commericals from the file each night.