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Spaf's Crystal Ball: Network Security Predictions

remora writes "Eugene Spafford[?] (of CERIAS, and co-author of "Practical Unix Security") has written an article for Information Security Magazine with eight of his predictions for the coming years in network security. He touches on subjects such as "Spam will grow as a problem" (obviously), to the "Greater emphasis on international cooperation and communication. Some of the article is fairly predictable, but it is still interesting to hear from one of the more experienced security people out there."

93 comments

  1. Is it just me... by rovingeyes · · Score: 1

    or some one else finds this article kind of predictable. I thought I'd see some insightful discussion from such a leading person in the field.

  2. Spam is more than a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    it's ruining the whole concept of email. As soon as I set up an email address, boom, hundreds of spams. They find ways of sending it to you no matter what you do, unless you block all incoming email except from certain addresses, which defeats the point of email in the first place. How are we meant to give an email address to children when they're going to be bombarded with "See horny naked amatures live NOW!" half a dozon times per day.
    If someone was dumping 100 pornographic adverts into your house's mail box each day, or DOSing your website, they can at least get in trouble. But with spam, nothing really is done to stop them, and they just keep on doing it. Convictions are rare and don't disuade them any more than a parking ticket. It needs to be recognised that spam is doing a heck of a lot to undermine the evolution of the internet.

    1. Re:Spam is more than a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hardly get any spam

      What do people do to get so much?

    2. Re:Spam is more than a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nothing really. Spammers use dictionary lists like crack0rs, and have automatic emailaddress-finder software gradually bombard a domain with every concievable word-combindation. They then find out which email addresses are active, then pass on the information to other spammers. You can easilly have 100 spams per day within one week of setting up an email address.
      A domain's resistance to this sort of email-finding depends on the vigilance of the admin and the type of email address you have - "cat@domain" will be more likely to be found than "3liteh1dd0n3m4il@domain".
      Also, there are the viruses. You can email someone, they get a virus from someone else, boom - every email address on their harddrive is auto-emailed to every other email address on their harddrive - instantly your email address whisks off to every Korean spam-bot this side of Pluto.

      I'm guessing you don't get much spam because:
      1) Your admin is good
      2) You have an unusual email address
      3) You don't email people who get viruses
      4) You don't post your address to usenet nor list it on places like Slashdot

    3. Re:Spam is more than a problem by Chanc_Gorkon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Um....I don't hardly get any on my home one. You know why? I DON'T USE IT ON PUBLIC WEBSITES!! I also don't plaster it all over my web page. I only give it to sites and people I implicitly trust. My S/N Ratio is rather low. Now anytime I want to make a entry onto a public website, I use my hotmail account. Hotmail, Yahoo, AOL and other major ISP's are hardest hit because they are so large that there is almost one address for every thinkable name(except for really weird ones). So, the spammer knows there will probably be a jsmith@aol.com.

      Now in contrast, I checked my work mail this monrning and it was about 90 percent spam. Why? Someone high up in the college thought it would be a good idea to out our whole college's e-mail directory online. There defense of the idea was we are a public school and must make everything except the stuff voered by FERPA public. I guess our e-mail and snail mail addresses aren't covered there. Anyway, I tried to tell them within a month our whole directory would have been crawled by a spammer and I was right. Everyone's getting high levels of spam. I even get stuff that could be targetted at students even though they have a entirely different domain and everything for their student issued e-mail accounts. Funny thing was they asked our mail server admin to help set this up! (well, he could have been TOLD to do it too)

      --

      Gorkman

    4. Re:Spam is more than a problem by tanveer1979 · · Score: 2

      I agree with you. One comment I liked is the bit about international cooperation. I receive a lot of international spam(from the US). Now I cant call them up and tell them to shut up in the US or for that matter take cause any real annoyance to them except for spamassasin!
      This problem will grow unless govt takes more interest in internet and stricter anto-spam laws are there. But the case is that with more govt interference come more evils. The only option is offence, like finding their home numbers and ringing them up at 2am to tell them if they want to buy so and so cream... Mahatma Gandhi once said
      "An eye for an eye will make the world blind"
      But I guess that seems a better option than my ISP bills.

      --
      My Aurora : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o91ZsGwJYyg
      FB : https://www.facebook.com/TanveersPhotography
    5. Re:Spam is more than a problem by Chanc_Gorkon · · Score: 2

      Er this morning and covered by FERPA. I should know better then posting before I have had my first cuppa joe!

      People get spam because they aren't careful who they give their address out to. It's as simple as that!

      --

      Gorkman

    6. Re:Spam is more than a problem by $rtbl_this · · Score: 2

      I think you mean spamassassin rather than spamassasin. The misspelled-domain squatters are at it again.

      --
      "Are you being weird, or sarcastic?" said Emma. I said I didn't know because I get the two feelings mixed up.
    7. Re:Spam is more than a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you need a near-term solution suitable for children, try 'spamfree.net'. That will cut your spam by about 98%. The parent can set up the filters using the web interface, and can give the email account/password to the child. Costs $5/mo, and you don't have to change your email address.

      If you have a mail server, use Spamassassin. It has auto-whitelisting, and many other features. Works on any platform which can run Perl. Better than 95% effective and it's free.

    8. Re:Spam is more than a problem by Delphis · · Score: 2, Informative

      Your use of some sort of (Realtime Blackhole Lists) RBLs is required then..

      We suffered a lot from spam where I work, but since I have installed QMail and rblsmtpd, plus set up local blacklists and whitelists (banning large chunks of the korean network space seems to work wonders) our levels of spam have dropped dramatically. And this is even with morons who still give out their company email address on every single website they can find.

      --
      Delphis
    9. Re:Spam is more than a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Um....I don't hardly get any on my home one. You know why? I DON'T USE IT ON PUBLIC WEBSITES!! I also don't plaster it all over my web page. I only give it to sites and people I implicitly trust. My S/N Ratio is rather low. Now anytime I want to make a entry onto a public website, I use my hotmail account. Hotmail, Yahoo, AOL and other major ISP's are hardest hit because they are so large that there is almost one address for every thinkable name(except for really weird ones). So, the spammer knows there will probably be a jsmith@aol.com.
      Now in contrast, I checked my work mail this monrning and it was about 90 percent spam. Why? Someone high up in the college thought it would be a good idea to out our whole college's e-mail directory online. There defense of the idea was we are a public school and must make everything except the stuff voered by FERPA public. I guess our e-mail and snail mail addresses aren't covered there. Anyway, I tried to tell them within a month our whole directory would have been crawled by a spammer and I was right. Everyone's getting high levels of spam. I even get stuff that could be targetted at students even though they have a entirely different domain and everything for their student issued e-mail accounts. Funny thing was they asked our mail server admin to help set this up! (well, he could have been TOLD to do it too)
      Since you're going to get all high and mighty about this, I'll repost what I posted earlier. Sorry but you're totally wrong.
      Spammers use dictionary lists like crack0rs, and have automatic emailaddress-finder software gradually bombard a domain with every concievable word-combindation. They then find out which email addresses are active, then pass on the information to other spammers. You can easilly have 100 spams per day within one week of setting up an email address.
      A domain's resistance to this sort of email-finding depends on the vigilance of the admin and the type of email address you have - "cat@domain" will be more likely to be found than "3liteh1dd0n3m4il@domain".
      Also, there are the viruses. You can email someone, they get a virus from someone else, boom - every email address on their harddrive is auto-emailed to every other email address on their harddrive - instantly your email address whisks off to every Korean spam-bot this side of Pluto.

      I'm guessing you don't get much spam because:
      1) Your admin is good
      2) You have an unusual email address
      3) You don't email people who get viruses
      4) You don't post your address to usenet nor list it on places like Slashdot
    10. Re:Spam is more than a problem by Chanc_Gorkon · · Score: 2

      3liteh1dd0n3m4il@domain

      You mean to tell me a good mail admin has to force crap like this on you in order to reduce spam? HECK NO! Number 4 and possibly number 3 on your list are the only vaild ones. Unusual e-mail addresses will only last about 5 minutes if you try to institute that. The hassle (typing in a mile long e-mail address) is more then it's worth (less spam). Spam reduction happens by BEING A SMART USER! That means, don't give it to every Tom, Dick and Harry. Don't put it on the ladies room wall either. You mean you'd hand person after person on the street a piece of paper with your e-mail address or home address on it? I didn't think so.

      In the many years I have been using compuers I have only seen a virus attack come via Code Red and when a stupid admin infected a file everyone touches when they login to the network. Both of these were no fault of my own. I have done what many used to consider risky computing. Downloading from BBS's and the Net. Some people still think that stuff is dangerous. It can be, if you just download and install/run any piece of code! If you practice being a smart user you don't download from websites that look terrible or work terribly. In the BBS days you did not download stuff from a new system until you were on a couple days and got a feel for how the system was run. You don't click on executables you get in E-mail unless you knew it was coming! You don't click OK everytime you see it on the screen! You READ what is on the screen. If everyone would just do simple things like that, even Microsoft systems would be a whole lot safer.

      --

      Gorkman

    11. Re:Spam is more than a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      jmclaug3@columbus.rr.com

      Does email aggregators browse at -1? You'll be the first one to know!

    12. Re:Spam is more than a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Register an email address. Spam one hour later. No fault of the user. It has nothing to do with being smart. You don't know what you're talking about. I don't know why I'm writing this.

    13. Re:Spam is more than a problem by Chanc_Gorkon · · Score: 2

      Yes I do. I have never had that problem. Only way you have that problem is if you have an account at some famous_domain.com or something like that. Good examples are yahoo.com, hotmail.com and aol.com. No question. That happens there. Everywhere else....I don't even see how it coudl happen unless you were working at microsoft.com, or redhat.com or some big business.com. Most people only have a yahoo or hotmail account FOR spam. They start one (like I did) so that if someone wants to send you a joke, you give them that address. Then you can summarily delete them in a fell swoop.

      --

      Gorkman

  3. Interesting point... by Ratface · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While most of "Spaf's" comments seem fairly self evident, I liked this point regarding add-on security products:

    "Expect to see several established products fail or be withdrawn because they are too invasive, have unfriendly interfaces, or are found to be considerably less effective than claimed."

    This kinda makes me think of the effect that ZoneAlarm have had on the personal firewall market for instance. 3 years ago, firewall technology was clunky and strictly for the network administrator. Nowadays anyone can have a simple to configure basic level of protection thanks to a product that broke the paradigm and set a new standard for ease of use. Of course, the really security consciuos out there still have their infinitely configurable command-line tools, but at the same time, my dad (for instance) can feel comfortable with a product that he can understand.

    --

    A little planning goes a long way...
    1. Re:Interesting point... by wheany · · Score: 3, Interesting
      but at the same time, my dad (for instance) can feel comfortable with a product that he can understand.
      When you combine a personal firewall and an inexperienced user, one of two things will happen, judging from newsgroups:

      a) "My machine is completely invulnerable, I have a personal firewall!"
      b) The firewall says: "AIEEEEE!!! A dangerous hacking attempt is in progress", and the user panics, because someone pinged his machine.
    2. Re:Interesting point... by Ratface · · Score: 4, Insightful

      True, but I only need to explain to him once or twice that

      a) Still be careful with information you give out/files that you open ... and ...
      b) Turn off automatic notification.

      It's definitely better than no protection or completely mis-configured protection because the user interface is designed for systems administrators.

      Hence the whole point of Zone Alarm as a paradigm-buster.

      --

      A little planning goes a long way...
    3. Re:Interesting point... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hence the whole point of Zone Alarm as a paradigm-buster.
      But what about this paradigm-buster-buster

    4. Re:Interesting point... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      D*mn! Can't log in!

      Anyhow, I find it funny when ZoneAlarm users misconfigures the app so they end up DoSing themselves.

    5. Re:Interesting point... by Tassach · · Score: 2

      Actually I think the broadband personal security market is better served by dedicated hardware appliances than software. Even my non-technical father was able to set up his Linksys router without my assistance. With DHCP on both the public and private nets, it was literally plug-and-play. This level of simplicity is what the non-technical masses need. Even zone alarm isn't this simple, and as was noted previously, often results in people getting themselves worked up into a frenzy every time somebody port-scans them.

      --
      Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
  4. Fads and Flash by osullish · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I totally agree with the Author in terms of Consumers are always looking to new Technology, instead of making the existing technology more secure.

    Whats the Use in enabling data streaming over bluetooth when we can't safely sent files over LANS and existing technology

    Oh and I really think the advent of Wireless Networks and 3G Systems will open up a whole new Can of Worms in terms of security - We can Already intercept calls over GSM systems, now we're looking to send huge chunks of data via the same systems!

    Someone is gonna get burnt...

    --
    It's hard enough to remember my opinions, never mind the reasons for them..
    1. Re:Fads and Flash by Corporate+Troll · · Score: 2, Interesting
      We can Already intercept calls over GSM systems

      We can intercept them, yes. But can we do anything with the intercepted data? I don't think so because it is encyrpted -granted a small key- but that's good enough to kill off the amateur eavesdroppers. It's not like the analog crap of 10 years ago, that anyone with a scanner could listen to

    2. Re:Fads and Flash by Ben+Hutchings · · Score: 2

      An attack on GSM encryption has been described (seems to be offline at the moment) that requires a few days' surveillance of the target and a lot of processing afterwards. So the security services can do this (or they can get a tap in the network, or maybe even force the network operator to hand over the secret key) but real-time eavesdropping of random calls is AFAIK impractical.

  5. Software Engineering by rovingeyes · · Score: 2, Interesting
    "Expect to see several established products fail or be withdrawn because they are too invasive, have unfriendly interfaces, or are found to be considerably less effective than claimed."

    1) Apparently this guy hasn't been using windows.
    2) He hasn't read the book "Mythical Man Month".

    As I see it this statement is not insightful but redundant.

    1. Re:Software Engineering by Zanguinar · · Score: 3, Informative

      In response to your accusations...

      1) Apparently this guy hasn't been using windows.
      I'm sure he has to some extent, but I believe he uses Mac OS X in his office.

      2) He hasn't read the book "Mythical Man Month".
      Yes, he has. It was assigned reading for one of the courses he taught.

      Recall, this is a predicition, a guess. Wierder predictions have come true.

      The reason most people use Windows is because they don't realize they have a choice. For the average consumer who can't handle Linux/BSD/etc. and uses PCs at work and therefore is more comfortable with Windows than MacOS, there realistically isn't a choice. That's why appliance PCs will take off (IMO), if they're designed right. Because of the age old KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) formula. If you make it easy enough for everybody to use, they will. That is, as long as they are willing to pay the price for the functionality. That's why appliance PCs have failed so far...

    2. Re:Software Engineering by Tassach · · Score: 3, Informative
      The reason most people use Windows is because they don't realize they have a choice.
      Actually, I think that's a secondary cause. I think the top two reasons people use windows is because 1.) It's what came on their computer, or 2.) It's what they're familiar with from work. I can't tell you how many machines I've seen that have been in use for years but still have the default settings for everything.
      --
      Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
  6. What the?! by Pat__ · · Score: 4, Interesting
    From the article... (emphasis mine)
    Other technologies about which we should exercise caution include VOIP, Bluetooth, open source, automated patching, RFIDs and biometrics.

    I always thought it was the other way around!
    As in we should exercise more caution about closed source systems no matter which one we are advocating !!
    Oh well! ... He is the security expert so I guess who am I to argue!
    1. Re:What the?! by Dr.+Charles+Forbin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      He didn't say open source was bad - he said it was a technology 'about which we should exercise caution'. The listed technologies are not Bad Things, they are just things that require caution when incorporating them. Biometrics were also listed in the technologies where caution needs to be exercised. I think what he's getting at is that it is completely possible to build an insecure system with secure components, and that something can't be assumed to be good just because it is grouped with things that are.

  7. Real Network Security by rob-fu · · Score: 0, Troll

    Simple. Don't connect your computer to a phoneline/DSL/cable modem :)

    1. Re:Real Network Security by OrangeSpyderMan · · Score: 5, Funny

      Don't connect your computer to a phoneline/DSL/cable modem

      Oh please don't try and convince me that wireless is more secure! :-)

      --
      Try NetBSD... safe,straightforward,useful.
    2. Re:Real Network Security by rob-fu · · Score: 2

      Oh please don't try and convince me that wireless is more secure! :-)

      No, I meant no network connection at all. :) Trying to make a lame joke and the moderators kill me.

    3. Re:Real Network Security by CharlieO · · Score: 1

      Don't connect your computer to a phoneline/DSL/cable modem

      Oh please don't try and convince me that wireless is more secure! :-)

      Or that IR is a practical alternative...

      Or that you won't get mugged carrying the CD-Rs between home and office for you sneaknernet...

  8. h4x0r? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wasn't Eugene Spafford the anti-hacker in hackers?!

    Well, near enough anyway :)

    1. Re:h4x0r? by Delphis · · Score: 1

      No, the character name was Eugene Belford .. played by Fisher Stevens. Close though.

      http://us.imdb.com/Title?0113243

      --
      Delphis
  9. The greatest security risk... by Noryungi · · Score: 2, Funny


    As far as you web server is concerned, getting slashdotted ranks way up there, along with using IIS (gratuitous MS baching). =)

    --
    The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
  10. His point on open source by jki · · Score: 2
    Consumers and technologists will continue to be enamored with fads and flash rather than quality and safety. Wireless will continue to be deployed in sensitive locations despite the terrible vulnerabilities and risks. Furthermore, we'll see policymakers and technicians continue to place faith in technology to solve our problems instead of investing in sound management and trained personnel. Other technologies about which we should exercise caution include VOIP, Bluetooth, open source, automated patching, RFIDs and biometrics.

    Is exactly what? Placing open source in that list makes no sense to me. Why?

    1. Re:His point on open source by PerryMason · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Take a look at CERIAS's sponsor list for a few reasons;

      http://www.cerias.purdue.edu/about/related/spons or s/

      --
      "I'm tired of all this 'Aren't humanity great' bullshit. We're a virus with shoes" - Bill Hicks
    2. Re:His point on open source by jase! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      after listening to a lecture he gave at AUSCERT2002 I think it comes down to his belief that even open source doesn't use methodologies that promote secure code from design. The example he gave was an old kerberos security flaw that existed for several years. many people had looked at the code but none picked it up. Just having a hundred people look at code doesn't make it secure. see trojan code that has been added to tcpdump as an example

    3. Re:His point on open source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course his sponsors are large companies with money. Who else can afford to give large amounts of gift money. IF you think that Spaf is pro Microsoft, you obviously have not read even a small selection of his writings. Lastly /.'s seem to freak out as soon as they see M$ on a page, thinking the devil is at play. If you would take time to read the very good reasons he thinks open source has a few insecurites you wouldn't be so quick to judge. For every time he mentions an open source problem he mentions 3 Microsoft problems. The problem is a general problem with Market pressure from consumers wanting everything new, quick, fast, and easy to use, throwing caution to the wind. If consumers would put more pressure for security in their products, Microsoft and Linux would change their stratigy. What type of systems do you think CERIAS uses honestly? Win32? Linux? Unix? Apple? Something else?

    4. Re:His point on open source by coj · · Score: 4, Informative

      FYI, My day job is CERIAS webmaster.

      I believe he mentions it in response to the common belief that OSS is *inherently* more secure than closed source. We use tons of open-source software at CERIAS, so it's not the case that Spaf has a dislike for open source.

      -Ed

    5. Re:His point on open source by jki · · Score: 2
      I believe he mentions it in response to the common belief that OSS is *inherently* more secure than closed source. We use tons of open-source software at CERIAS, so it's not the case that Spaf has a dislike for open source.

      Thanks for that info :) I guess the thing that I did not understand, is why he put open source inbetween words that describe specific technologies (VOIP, Bluetooth, open source, automated patching, RFIDs and biometrics) - I mean, open source/closed source/shared source whatever are methods(not maybe the correct word, blame my english) under which you can create the other mentioned specific technologies. It just seemed to me that for some reason, he wanted to put open source in that -wrong- family.

    6. Re:His point on open source by coj · · Score: 1

      Thanks for that info :) I guess the thing that I did not understand, is why he put open source inbetween words that describe specific technologies (VOIP, Bluetooth, open source, automated patching, RFIDs and biometrics) - I mean, open source/closed source/shared source whatever are methods(not maybe the correct word, blame my english) under which you can create the other mentioned specific technologies. It just seemed to me that for some reason, he wanted to put open source in that -wrong- family.

      I can't speak for him, but I didn't read that deeply into it. I took it as a list of technologies/methods of solving problems that we have to look closely at, because they could be problematic from a security standpoint (mostly because people make assumptions about how secure they are).

      -Ed

  11. Spam may not be a problem much longer by DrXym · · Score: 4, Informative

    Mozilla 1.3 is adding support for Bayesian spam filters

    1. Re:Spam may not be a problem much longer by PigleT · · Score: 2

      Unfortunately, allowing the clueful few who wouldn't buy or respond to spam anyway (meaning mozilla users) to filter mail easier does nothing in the way of telling spammers to get knotted. That's where integrating the spam-check at the MTA receipt stage would come in handy; you don't have to passively accept crap, nor do you have to waste bandwidth sending complete bounce emails (potentially to innocent victims), but rather you drop things at injection. Fine by me :)

      There's a patch and spiel about an exim module and filter that hooks into SpamAssassin at http://marc.merlins.org/linux/exim/sa.html

      HTH,

      --
      ~Tim
      --
      .|` Clouds cross the black moonlight,
      Rushing on down to the circle of the turn
    2. Re:Spam may not be a problem much longer by DrXym · · Score: 4, Insightful
      That is not the point. The point is that if Mozilla can have a Bayesian filter and it proves effective at catching spam then in a few years *every* mail application and many services such as AOL/MSN/Yahoo etc. will have one too. There will be no more need for the user to set up 20-odd advanced filter rules to filter for crap like $$$, xxx, Nigeria etc., or buy spam filtering shareware or anything else requiring effort - they simply click "this is spam" or whatever on their mail software and it's dealt with.


      There was a slashdot article the other day that mentioned the return rate on spam was something like 0.001-0.002%. If a filter that learns can kill 90% of it or more then you can stick an extra 0 in there at least. Let the fuckers burn their money if they wish, but there will be a point when most of them will simply give up.

    3. Re:Spam may not be a problem much longer by PigleT · · Score: 1

      That's also not the point. It might not cost them 10x as much to send 10x as much spam if that becomes the case. Not to mention, someone's bound to *try* circumventing any sufficiently common anti-spam system.

      (And Bayesian filters are no panacea, nor are they invulnerable, btw; I still get the occasional junk-mail through here, despite my better efforts. I even had one over the weekend that fell back to SpamAssassin and scored over 27 but bogofilter considered clean - simply base64-encoded all its body, and I don't know that bogofilter either handles that well, or if it does, it hadn't been well enough trained against that sort of mail.)

      The best way is still a moderately aggressive "just say NO!", not a passive acceptance, IMO. Spam should always be nuked at source.

      --
      ~Tim
      --
      .|` Clouds cross the black moonlight,
      Rushing on down to the circle of the turn
    4. Re:Spam may not be a problem much longer by LostCluster · · Score: 1

      But these types of filters are unique to the user. Words that might get though my filter might hit a red light in yours because you've never seen that word outside of spam. Therefore, there's no common technique that will get through all filters, and never will be one.

    5. Re:Spam may not be a problem much longer by PigleT · · Score: 1

      That doesn't have to happen. All the spammers need to do is carry on pushing crap out and someone's bound to get it - drop a block of varied nice-words in the bottom of the mail (start "talking about" PHP, java, diet-coke and stuff, and you'll be going up in my estimation) and the damage potential will increase.
      And in the process, more bandwidth will be consumed (which is where the real work-load is inflicted on the 'Net, not and the end-recipient) and the poor eejits out there *not* using these filters will still be getting crap.

      --
      ~Tim
      --
      .|` Clouds cross the black moonlight,
      Rushing on down to the circle of the turn
  12. cooperation: 'out-share' hackers by UnderAttack · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I like the part about cooperation. Hackers do it for years successfully, while network administrators prefer to sit in their closets under tin-foil hats hoping to preotect themself with obscurity.


    Systems to share already exist. Just check the "Internet Storm Center" and DShield for a place to exchange logs and ideas.

    --
    ---- join dshield.org Distributed Intrusion Detec
    1. Re:cooperation: 'out-share' hackers by lokki · · Score: 1

      OK, as an admin, I take offense to this statement. I don't "sit in my closet", and I don't rely on obscurity for security. Blanket statements (that don't make sense, no less) don't show any sort of *insight* at all. Modded up...sheesh.

      --
      I won't dance in a club like this...All the girls are slags, and the beer tastes just like piss! -The Specials
    2. Re:cooperation: 'out-share' hackers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WTF? This is not insightful.

  13. Re:Its Simple by jki · · Score: 2
    1) Open Source is a technology. 2) Open Source is inherently less secure than closed source projects because you have more people analyzing the algorithms and processes in an open source project. 3) Open Source is a fad. Does that clear things up for you?

    Yes, it clears some things up *hidden message here* - but not related to my guestion. :)

  14. Most important point by ifoxtrot · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I don't think that any of these predictions are particularly insightful, but the 8th is a good illustration of the root of the problem with security.

    Consumers and technologists will continue to be enamored with fads and flash rather than quality and safety. Wireless will continue to be deployed in sensitive locations despite the terrible vulnerabilities and risks. Furthermore, we'll see policymakers and technicians continue to place faith in technology to solve our problems instead of investing in sound management and trained personnel.

    The point being that security is frequently misunderstood, isn't sexy and doesn't appeal to the mass market. Possibly the only way to change this is for security to become a major feature of the products (a bit like microsoft is saying it's doing now) so that people will come to expect the security... Somewhat similar to the safety features in cars...

  15. Well I'll be a monkey's uncle! by morhoj · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Other technologies about which we should exercise caution include VOIP, Bluetooth, open source, automated patching, RFIDs and biometrics."

    Slashdot reporting on something that says Open Source has security problems? Wow!

    For all of you who's wondering what he's talking about, think: trojan in OpenSSL, trojan in libpcap, immediate disclosure of apache vulnerabilities... its not all peaches and cream just because its open. Closed source has some important inherant security benefits.

  16. Oh for goodness' sake by Dr+Thrustgood · · Score: 0

    Yes, it is entirely predictable and the fact that it's a well-known person who's spouting forth such prattle doesn't make it any better.

    Thrustgood's prediction for the next five years: OK then, man, like there will be, like a total far-out radical 1337 hax0r of, like, some network product, man, you dig?

  17. Appliances? by Omkar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Consumers will embrace appliance-based computing as it becomes available."

    Spaf apparently believes that consumers aren't capable of dealing with real computers; he thinks dedicated apps and devices are the future.

    This reminds me of the NC vs. PC debate. PCs were supposedly too clunky, hard to use, and powerful for the average user; NCs were going to replace them. Eventually, PCs ate NCs.

    I believe that looking at this issue from a security point of view is somewhat misleading. As Spaf himself seems to realize, most domestic consumers are misinformed and apathetic about security. The average person will see a refrigerator, that for no good reason, can go online, rather than a secure online service. PCs will still be more versatile than appliances, and will continue to provide more value. Remember how the next big thing 10 years ago was the iCoffeeMaker?

    Domestic consumers won't use them. Corporate consumers won't use them. Who will adopt appliances?

    1. Re:Appliances? by Chanc_Gorkon · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually I kind of agree with him. I will tell ya why. Personally, when I am at home it's my time. I usually love unplugging for at least an hour if not the whole evening. Yeah I love technology and all, but why I want to is invariably, I always start to ask the question is it worth it when I start working on something. If it isn't, I push away and relaxe by watching a DVD. Now if I didn't have the hassle of normal day to day computer using, I would use it more. Case in point, my PDA is what I take with me on trips rather then a laptop. It works EVERYTIME and powers on in less then a second. People hate having to wait for the boot sequence and all of that. People want to work. Remember when the first home computers came out and they were real popular? Remember why? The reason it was was that they were instant on. No waiting for a disk to be read or any of that. On my Atari 800XL, when I wanted to write a paper for school, I would insert the cartridge for the word processor and turn it on. THAT'S IT! The software was available soon after (less then a second) I flipped the power switch. The only downside of the older ones was that saves took forever because you usually could not afford the disk drive so you were stuck with tape. My Atari 800XL cost LESS then the disk drive! We used a tape drive. There's no reason we can't have these type of computers and no reason to kill off the PC because of them. The PC could turn out to be a household server more then anything with everyone having a laptop style or pad style computer that could be used anywhere. When you were at home, the pad could periodically dump it's contents to the PC and when you leave you can make sure you have the files you really need with you. Appliance computers will happen eventually. Even us geeks will use them.

      --

      Gorkman

    2. Re:Appliances? by fferreres · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Price. Start offering NC for $4,99 a month (say you already have a monitor and only need to plug a micro NC that is netword card + video display and some simple bios).

      You can only win against a PC if you can offer the NC at "ridiculous" (for past standards) price. Everything should be thin clients if you ask me, and if I need I could "network to my own server" or to a server provider i hired (for my personal apps, my disk space, email, whatever). Everything will be distributed services.

      The PC will then be a seens as a "local NC + server" all-in-one.

      But we'll have to wait some years. It will be fun:
      - No instalation of software
      - Almost no configuration, except for user choices

      Just imagine: click here to play Doom IV (service cost $0,05 a minute, or buy a monthly pack at $10). Here to launch a word process (prices start at $0,02 (OO) and up to $0,10 (MSO)). Click here for phone service, etc. etc.

      Companies offering lots of "service packs" (not the MS ones! Real service packs). Your own computer will be irrelevant, the best stuff WILL NOT INSTALL ON YOUR COMPUTER.

      The reasoning behind this is simple: as network speeds become incresingly powerfull, there will an inflexion point in the economics of running a local computer: when the needed "combined" bandwith for using all the applications you need + upgrade to them and updates surpasses the needed bandwith to just broadcat the "video stream" to your computer, network computing will arrive.

      And the needed bandwith to broadcast a video signal grows little over time and can even go down (small screens, PDAs) but the bandwith to install new games, OSs, to watch video and applications and to stay current is growing exponentially.

      It's just a matter of time! Gone will be the days one will have a computer faster than your friend. You could compile your kernel in 3 seconds in a virtualized mainframe as long as you don't exceed your CPU/hour quota!

      People will ask what CPU/hour you are hiring (if you run a server) and how many clients/hour are you serving, not how much mbits you have :)

      --
      unfinished: (adj.)
    3. Re:Appliances? by fermion · · Score: 2, Informative
      This is absolutely the case. When consumers can buy a flexible device that just works, they will. It is not that we can't understand how to make a computer work, it is that there are other things we would rather do

      For instance, I have a store bought firewall. I have an extra box that I could have made into a linux firewall, but i just didn't feel like it. There was a time when I might have done it for the educational benefits, but there are other things I want to do and people I want to those thing with.

      This was also what was great about the original Mac. I don't know if anyone remembers the morass of the pc world 20 years ago. Hacked up cables, printer codes in word processor documents, device drivers for each program, networks that were hand configured, if not coded. The original Mac ushered in a world of microcomputers and component that just worked. Cables would work, layers were abstracted so one printer driver, or set of menus, or modem drivers, would work for all applications. It was a box on the table that let the user compute. It was, in fact, an appliance. Like a TV things could be plugged into it. MS ran with part of this idea, but for the most part never fully implemented the 'appliance' part.

      A big reason we do not have such a device is that MS sucks at embedded software and lives at the teat of yearly upgrade cycles, and has convinced consumers that MS is the only solution. For instance, I tried to give one relative a old mac that did exactly what she wanted, did not need to be upgraded every month(it was very stable software that had not been upgraded in two years). The problem was she was so indoctrinated into the MS world and did not believe that this machine could do what she wanted. She basically was so branded by MS that anything else would not do. So now she has a machine that does not consistently work, and will have this machine until MS and companies like Dell develop machine that just works. I am not holding my breath.

      So yes I do expect to see many computing devices being made into appliances. I know my life would be much easier if I could just give my relatives a secure box that they can plug into the wall and use. It would dial, download mail and surf the web. It would not be so flexible that it could run spyware, download webbugs in email, or become owned.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    4. Re:Appliances? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is Microsoft working towards that with .NET?

      *(I only know .NET as a buzzword)

      I do agree this vision of a thin client appliance would appeal to a lot of average users / businesses.

      How well are current OSs equipped for this today? Citrix? X?

    5. Re:Appliances? by dwm · · Score: 2

      Two words:

      Game consoles.

    6. Re:Appliances? by Tassach · · Score: 3, Insightful
      You seem to be missing the point. "Network Appliance" doesn't mean "Toaster with a RJ-45 port", it means "Dedicated computing device". Domestic and Corporate customers are buying single-purpose, dedicated appliances like mad. Security applicances. Network-Attached Storage appliances. Search appliances. And so forth.

      When you want to do one job, and do it well, a dedicated piece of hardware almost always wins out over a general-purpose computer. Can a PC with 2 nics and the appropriate software do everything a high-end router can do? Sure it can. Then why do people by dedicated routers? Because they are more reliable, have better performance, consume less power, and are simpler to administer. It's the same reason you have a toaster and an oven. A toater does one thing: it converts bread into toast easily, reliably, and efficiently. You can't cook your Thanksgiving turkey in the toaster, but that's why you have an oven. You can make toast in your regular oven, but it takes more power, it's easier to burn it, and it's far less convienient.

      --
      Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
    7. Re:Appliances? by fferreres · · Score: 2

      X is perfectly equiped, under a Unix system that is. Windows is not clearly so but it's not really difficult. But the thing that's needed is bandwith, a significant increase. I would say a 400 MBits/s "constant" speed would be more than enough for a 1024 display at 70 fps (compressed video of course, but good quality).

      X does just that, the application broadcasts you the video inside the window you are using and if you hide the apps, it stops using your bandwith. So you only need need enough bandwidth to fill a screen even if you use many apps (+ some overhead).

      --
      unfinished: (adj.)
    8. Re:Appliances? by fferreres · · Score: 2

      ....Erh, I meant 400 Kbit/s (400 Mbit's hehehe, that would be nice anyway).

      --
      unfinished: (adj.)
  18. You must be new here... by Dot.Com.CEO · · Score: 2

    Slashdotters do not read the articles. ;-) SCD

    --
    Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
  19. Open not necessarily better for security... by Sheetrock · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Recently, I think we've had some pretty good demonstrations of the false sense of security we've all smugly adapted regarding open source:

    oTrojaning of popular open source software (such as OpenSSH and tcpdump).
    oRepetitive exploits in the same software, such as the recent BIND exploits in the latest version (and the eighty or ninety exploits that came before it).
    oProgrammers releasing details of security flaws after their platform is covered but before everybody else has a chance to patch the problem.

    So I think he may have a point. Closed source isn't secure, to be sure, but irregardless these continual problems with dealing with security flaws in free software beg the question of whether or not the open source methodology is much better in 'root'ing out problems.

    Note: I'm just talking about security, not overall quality of product. I still use open source because I feel it is superior to closed source in so many ways. However, I want to burst this bubble we've collectively got about "Thousands of eyes on the source code mean we're all safer", because obviously it isn't turning out that way.

    --

    Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
    -- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.




    1. Re:Open not necessarily better for security... by Zocalo · · Score: 4, Informative
      Repetitive exploits in the same software, such as the recent BIND exploits in the latest version (and the eighty or ninety exploits that came before it).
      Latest version? I don't think so. BIND currently has three main code bases:

      v4.x - essentially an ugly, bug ridden hack (or at least it seemed like it).

      v8.x - a very stable DNS server, but unfortunately largely built upon the v4.x codebase and inheriting issues galore as a result.

      v9.x - A complete rewrite of v8.x, plus extra features, with much more attention paid to code integrity.
      Almost ALL of the recent serious BIND exploits, including the recent one you are referring to, have been focused upon the v4.x and 8.x trees. Sure, v9.x isn't without it's problems, but all in all, it's proven to be pretty secure and stable so far.

      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
  20. predictions? hardly ... by AlCoHoLiC · · Score: 2, Interesting

    With utmost respect I can't see any predictions, he's just stating obvious facts and logical conclusions derived from the present state of things. I feel the hidden message in the whole prophecy: M$ sux, Linux sux, closed source UNICES rules. A few rants/unconstructive comments follow:

    1) Consumers will never be able to 'distinguish safe code from the typical dreck they're used to buying' just because there's no _SAFE_ code and they're not supposed to do so. They're _CONSUMERS_.

    2) Yes the sales of security products will grow, US goverment and media are working around the clock with their 'war on human rights'.

    3) I don't understand the point behind this rant.

    4) The spam _IS_ a problem already, but there're effective solutions. Smart ISP already offer SPAM filtering service.

    5) I hope he's not talking about US DOJ way of international cooperation when any human being living on earth is subject to US laws, which is also known as "All your ass belongs to us".

    6) When lawyers and insurance companies jump in, software prices will skyrocket and we're going to see even more stupid EULAs and laws. That's the way lawyers work.

    7) Oh, consumers _ALWAYS_ focus on wrong things, it's hardly any news. But, honestly who made him (or me) god to say: What you do is the wrong thing?

    8) Open source isn't technology it's more a philosophy, a way of thinking. Other mentioned technologies can be safe enough for average consumer or company when implemented properly. Even matches are dangerous technology in the fire-lighter's hands.

    1. Re:predictions? hardly ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hope this guy didn't get paid for such obvious "predictions." Gee , spaf, I predict tomorow I'll pickmy nose.

      (Might find somethignmore usful than your ramblings.)

  21. Caution with open source? by quadcitytj · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Other technologies about which we should exercise caution include VOIP, Bluetooth, open source, automated patching, RFIDs and biometrics.{Emphasis mine}

    It would be nice if he could give us a concrete reason why we should "exercise caution" with open source. Does he really have a valid point, or is he just propogating the "open source is less secure because crackers can see the code" myth?

    1. Re:Caution with open source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, I'd say so! You obviously missed the tcpdump trojaned story yesterday.

      The last few stories about opensource code being trojaned has kinda scared me a little bit.

    2. Re:Caution with open source? by theBraindonor · · Score: 3, Informative

      Spaf is simply trying to drive a point home that he teaches constantly at Purdue--and yes, I had the privelage of taking his class. When it comes to computer security, you should never blindly trust anything! Why is he saying that we should be cautious? Simple... Too many people have the impression that open source == security. And we've all heard it: "It's open source, it must be secure..."

      Why is that a bad thing? Risk Analysis... You can never achieve 100% security. At best, you can develop a plan that takes into account most anything that can go wrong: Fire, Burglary, Natural Disaster, Hacking, etc. If you blindly trust a component, then your risk analysis isn't worth anything.

      PS: Spaf... See... I wasn't asleep in class.

    3. Re:Caution with open source? by swordgeek · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Spaf is a Smart Guy, and of the many things he's said, 'open source == less secure' is certainly not one that I'm aware of!

      Open source may or may not be more secure because it allows for independent code review. It is NOT, however, inherently secure which is something that some people seem to think.

      What he's saying is that none of these things are a panacea. We can't say that we're secure because we use open source software (like tcpdump, sendmail, BIND), nor can we say that we're safe from bad guys because of biometrics.

      He's reminding us of the fundamental point of security: It's a journey, not a destination. The technologies that he mentioned are great cases of either or both (a) easily breakable technology, and (b) technology that too many people are willing to wave their hands at and call 'secure.'

      Caution is a fair attitude, I'd say.

      --

      "People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
  22. Iris firewall/filter appliance. by Bocaj · · Score: 3, Funny

    We need a good appliance that can detect spam/intruders/viruses. In a nice little package with an LCD "Iris" that closes when it detects a "bad" incomming packet and the makes a thud sound when it kills it. :-)

    Ok, yes, I watch too much Sci-Fi channel...

  23. Me Too!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have had about 5 spam in the last 3 years. Needless to say I am very strict about what I use the address for and who I give it to. If I have to give an addy, I go signup for a free one somewhere and use that.

  24. Ineffective laws by Vincy · · Score: 2, Informative

    7. Consumers will still focus on the wrong things. Insiders will defraud companies because all the defenses will point outwards. Bad software will continue to be purchased and deployed because "it's what everyone else uses." Little funding will be provided for education and long-term research because it has no obvious impact on the quarterly report. Instead, untold billions of dollars will be spent on short-term patches and fixes that need to be replaced every few months. Military systems will be purchased because they are COTS, not because they are safe or well-tested. Many disasters will make the news in coming years as a result.

    As reports of spectacular security failures increase, the public will feel more and more insecure. Instead of taking their own responsibility, they will turn to the lawmakers to provide them with laws that will give them back their security. These laws will come, since the lawmakers have to do something, even if the effect would be largely debatable.

  25. One point where I disagree by djembe2k · · Score: 2, Interesting
    On the whole, this is a good essay that makes a lot of valid points. Some are just common sense, others show some real insight. But he says something that strikes me as just wrong:
    The market for add-on security (firewalls, intrusion detection, antivirus, monitoring, probing, etc.) will continue to grow, although we'll see considerable consolidation in the marketplace as the similarity of many tools becomes apparent. Sales of these items will be strong for years to come, despite the fact that the only real solutions require rearchitecting the underlying systems.
    It sounds like he is saying that intrusion detection, antivirus, firewalls, etc. are combinable, which is pretty questionable, and even more questionable, that they can be integrated into the "underlying systems". If I understand this correctly, he's talking about rolling all of this functionality into operating systems.

    The last thing I want is all my security tools prepackaged in my OS. Not all intrusion detection is the same. Not all firewalls are the same. I want to be able to pick the tools that make sense for the needs of my network. I want to be able to run some of my critical security services on separate dedicated boxes from critical network services. (Obviously the firewall, but other stuff too.) I want to create multiple layers of security distributed around my network. I don't want the OS of my production box to give away all the details of my security posture.

    We all know that admins out there fail to keep up patch levels at an enormous rate, let alone creating a well designed multi-layered security posture. Maybe rolling it all into one box would simplify the job of getting to a minimally secure configuration. But seriously, who doesn't believe that the black-hats wouldn't have a field day with this? He talks about real solutions, but the only real solution, now or 10 years from now, is hiring IT security experts to create and maintain a real comprehensive security solution.

    I don't disagree that "underlying systems" need to be "rearchitected" to meet basic security needs, if that means, for example, that MS needs a radically different approach to integrating security concerns into the OS development process. But that isn't a solution to the problems addressed by what he calls "add-on" security tools. That's a different problem, and an important one. But no matter how well designed my underlying OS, I'm still going to put it behind a firewall, I'm still going to run some sort of IDS, I'm still going to monitor the logs, and I want control over how I do those things.

    Or maybe I'm reading his relatively sketchy argument wrong, but I can't figure out a different way to take it.

  26. Open up first, secure later... by LostCluster · · Score: 1

    The problem I see with absolutely every new protcol, going all the way back to the telephone and postal service is that there is an inherent assumption that all communication attempts are desired, and should be brought to the attention of the recipient. Only later are additions made to secure the protocol, such as Caller ID and the Telezapper for the phone, and requirments that large packages be delivered in person to protect the mail system.

    For that reason, I think eventually every commincation protocol will have requirements that clearance to send be requested before the actual payload is allowed. And furthermore, upstream routers would remember when permission is denied for a limited time and repeat the denial, therefore cutting off DOS attacks early in their journey, and assuring most people still have access to the apparent target.

  27. Ultimate Security by queenb**ch · · Score: 1

    Ultimate security is achevied only with the air gap firewall.

    --
    HDGary secures my bank :/
  28. Interview with Spaf: more DEPTH by securitas · · Score: 2


    This interview with Spaf goes into much more depth about his thinking about security -- or 'assurance' as he says -- because '...security really is a property that's an absolute that we can never quite achieve.'

    Read the interview.

  29. Last Post! by alpg · · Score: 1

    With every passing hour our solar system comes forty-three thousand
    miles closer to globular cluster M13 in the constellation Hercules, and
    still there are some misfits who continue to insist that there is no
    such thing as progress.
    -- Ransom K. Ferm

    - this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...