Douglas Adams Written Dr. Who Episode Goes Into Production

oddsheep writes "The BBC have announced they will be showing a new version of an episode originally written by Douglas Adams and that was never shown after industrial action halted the original production in 1979." "Shada" will star Paul McGann as the Doctor.

Comments

Webcast

[isorox]

Following several false starts in attempting to bring it back, the drama will finally be premièred in a webcast on BBCi in the spring.

Not broadcast on one of the BBC's many channels (BBC Three would be good, kick people into getting Digital TV), but instead in dubious quality on the web?

Re:Webcast

[squaretorus]

(BBC Three would be good, kick people into getting Digital TV)

Couldn't agree ... less. I seriously hate the way the BBC pumps my licence fee into projects that the majority of licence payers have no access to.

This should be on Radio 4. Not BBCi, not one of the digital TV or Radio stations. This is the kind of crap Radio 4 was made for! And we can all receive it. Even online!

Re:Webcast

[Duds]

BBCi has 3 TV channels on Freeview, and presumably at least one on sky. They can broadcast it in audio there too.

And that would be CD quality.

Re:Webcast

[isorox]

I hate the way the BBC pumps my license fee into projects that are completely worthless (fame acadamy, eastenders). Fortunatly the BBC exists for the minority of the population. If we relyed on tabloid "mob rule", we'd have back to back football and big brother on TV, back to back Justin Timberlake on radio, and stupid flash and "Free Tonez" on bbci.

Back in the day when BBC pumped money into 625line TV, and then Color, and Teletext, and Nicam, it was exactly the same. Not everyone have Teletext, why should they have to subsidise teletext people? Why does the BBC maintain a website and broadcast radio online for people in america and beyond, that dont pay a license fee? They had a website back in the days when there was 30,000,000 internet users worldwide

Everything starts off as a minority, specialist, service. Then the mainstream get it.

Besides, I'd think the 5 million DST, 2 1/2 million DTT and 2 1/2 million cable subscribers is a large chunk of the license fee payers. More people can techincally receive BBC Four and Choice then can receive BBC Two on analog. A second hand digibox and dish from ebay - £100. Someone to install it - £50. That gives access to 50 channels with no subscription, anywhere in the UK (unless you cant put a dish up because of conservation issues). For the 50,000 people that cant have a dish, DTT and cable will cover about 90% of them. The rest are unlikely to receive a full analog signal anyway - the highlands of scotland viewers that cant receive BBC2 dont get a rebate on their license fee.

Re:Webcast

[isorox]

All the BBC channels are available on satelite for the cost of a box and dish (about £100 second hand - less then the cost of a DTT box and new ariel). You get loads more free channels too like boomerang (24 hour cartoons). They are also on DTT (""freeview"") too, as well as the digital only radio stations.

BBCi is the interactive part of BBC (Digital "teletext", the website, and extra video streams on news24). BBCi is not the Digital only channels.

Re:Webcast

[johnburton]

Couldn't agree ... less. I seriously hate the way the BBC pumps my licence fee into projects that the majority of licence payers have no access to. Well fine, but who exactly are those people? Everyone in the UK has access to those channels. Ok, so you've got to buy some equipment but you have to buy a TV to watch BBC1 and I don't see anyone complaining that that's unfair.

Re:Webcast

[glesga_kiss]

Besides, in a few years, when the old analogue system is switched off, you'll have to have this equipment. Why wait?

Re:Webcast

[perlyking]

I don't have any mod points so I will just say I found your comment insightful :-)
It's wierd when I have both cable TV and Sky Digital and still most of the best programmes seem to be on the terrestrial channels.

Re:Webcast

[bigboard]

90% can get DTT? That's just plain wrong. I live 50 miles from London in a highly populated area and can't get it, and won't be able to until they switch of analogue transmissions. Why should I pay for something I can't get?

Re:Webcast

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe the thought never crossed your mind, but hey, you know, you might just be in the 10% of people who can't get DTT? Just because you're 50 miles from London doesn't mean anything, as you could be using a repeater transmitter* which has not been upgraded to repeat the DDT transmissions.

Just to answer your question; I don't read Teletext subtitles. I don't mind that part of my licence fee pays for those subtitles, though. Who do you think will pay for you to get DTT transmissions if you don't want to pay for them, by the way?

*: Needed when an object blocks the signal from a main transmitter.

Re:Webcast

[operagost]

I have a crazy idea- how about having private citizens start TV and radio stations, instead of the government? Shoot, that would never work!

Re:Webcast

[bigboard]

From the CrownCastle website (One of the Freeview Partners): "Freeview covers around three out of four households". Mmm, I make that around 75%. So up yours, retard.

You may not *read* subtitles, but at least you can *get* them. The difference is, I *can't* get Freeview, even if I want it. So I ask again, why should I pay for it?

Try rubbing your two brain cells together, it might generate a little heat in that cold, empty brani pan of yours.

Re:Webcast

[ParrotDroppings]

Actually it could work. In the USA they have public access tv, any Joe or Mary can have a timeslot...

OTOH it brings you something like "The Ozbornes"...

OTOH commercial tv is ruled by viewers-ratings...

I'll segfault now if you don't mind...

Re:Webcast

[isorox]

No it wouldnt. If every tom, dick and harry stuck up a 100W transmitter, broadcasting god know what kind of unfiltered, unnicefied UHF signal, TV would be unwatchable. If they forced cable nets to be open, that might work.

Re:Webcast

[andyt]

For the 50,000 people that cant have a dish, DTT and cable will cover about 90% of them

Maybe you can help me out then. I live in Mile End, East London, on the third floor of a small block of flats.

I can't put up a dish, as I don't have access to the exterior wall of my flat (the only windows that open are small things I can just about get an arm through and I have no balcony. Yes I'm sure this probably contravenes a load of fire regulations)

I can't get OnDigital (or the new equivalent) through the communal arial as the signal is too weak.

I can't get cable, as the only cable available in East London is for phones. (Because of the Cable London fiasco).

I would LIKE to be able to get Digital TV, or Sky, or anything.

How can I do it?

Re:Webcast

[Bishop]

but wait it is a democracy! Private citizens run the government.

Re:Webcast

[gorilla]

There are loads of examples around the world which give the lie to your argument.

Even in America, which has the biggest 'mob rule' around has channels like PBS, Discovery Channel, etc.

Re:Webcast

[isorox]

From where I live I can see 3 analog transmitters and 1 digital transmitter. That means I receive 17 UHF channels in good quality (assuming I rotate the ariel). 4 analog channels, from 3 transmitters, and 5 digital MUXes. In addition to this I get spilage from a couple more transmitters which mean that a TV station cant broadcast on those frequencys. The U only has 40 UHF channels to choose from, theres rarely room to squeeze an extra 1 channel (hence Channel 5 and DTT coverage is only about 60%. You have to be careful about interfereing across the channel too. Some areas can receive 30 UHF channels in good quality, however they are all repeats of the big 5, and digital muxes. Countries like the U.S. have local stations, which carry some network programming (like local radio in the UK). the UK doesnt have any local stations (aside from about 10 city-sized RSL's). The UK emphasises full coverage of every broadcast station, instead of maximum number of stations. Also theres less space alocated to channels in the UK (other countries have 70 UHF channels and VHF channels - twice as many as the UK)

Incidently I dont know a single country that has unregulated use of the UHF band.

Re:Webcast

[isorox]

Things to try
1) Mount satelite dish inside (will go thorugh a window). Only works if you have a clear view of 28 degrees east
2) Petition landlord for a satelite dish on the roof, with a coax cable running down into your flat.
3) Try a booster on the ariel for DTT. Try an indoor ariel (can work if theres a more pwoerful DTT transmitter nearby that your main ariel doesnt point to)
4) Get a big fat YAGI loft ariel, mount it *in* your flat, point to nearby transmitter (preferably through a window, but not essential

Re:Webcast

[Duds]

DTT has 3 channels marked "BBCi" , they're usually used to cover the sports events. They were ch 701,702 and 703 a while ago.

Oh, and very few need new aerials. Hell, I'm in an area with "no coverage" and I get perfect DTT from my little internal aerial.

Re:Webcast

[mikerich]

You're not in Milton Keynes are you?

That's right, the City of the Future!

I can't get digital TV, digital radio or digital cable.

Oh and while I'm moaning about great British institutions, BT can't offer me ADSL either.

Naturally, what passes for a government in this country says that digital provision isn't a matter for them and pass you on to the regulators, who say that since x% of people CAN get these services there is nothing to complain about.

If the government is determined to switch off the analogue signal they are going to be in for one hell of a shock. There aren't just millions of people unable to get a digital signal, but millions of others who will resent being asked to fork out more money for a service they've already paid for once.

As yet, the date of the switch off hasn't been finalised and I get the impression that it will continue to be pushed back time and time again.

Just to rub salt into my wounds, my parents, who live at the very tip of Cornwall can get digital TV, digital radio and ADSL.

There is no justice in the World.

Best wishes,
Mike.

Re:Webcast

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, I wasn't the original poster who gave the 90% figure, and you " 90% can get DTT? That's just plain wrong." While 75% is clearly not 90%, a difference of only 15% is also not plain wrong, it is simply statistical error. Besides which, you are still clearly in the 25% of the population who cannot recieve DTT.

Actually, I can't get subtitles. DTT screws up the Teletext signal due to MPEG2 compression. I can get neither Page 888 subtitles or standard Teletext. I can't get it, but I don't whine like a little bitch because part of my licence fee goes to pay for it.

I'll not be thinking of you as I flick through my 100 channels of DTT programming tonight, while you desperatly struggle to find something other than Children In Need.

Re:Webcast

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you can help me out then. I live in Mile End, East London, on the third floor of a small block of flats.

You live in Mile End, i recommend prozac!

Mile End - By Pulp

We didn't have no where to live,
we didn't have nowhere to go
'til someone said
"I know this place off Burditt Road."
It was on the fifteenth floor,
it had a board across the door.
It took an hour
to pry it off and get inside.
It smelt as if someone had died;
the living-room was full of flies,
the kitchen sink was blocked, / the bathroom sink not there at all.
Ooh,
it's a mess alright,
yes it's
Mile End. / And now we're living in the sky!
I'd never thought I'd live so
high,
just like Heaven
(if it didn't look like Hell.)
The lift is always full of piss,
the fifth floor landing smells of fish
(not just on Friday,
every single other day.)
Below the kids come out tonight,
they kick a ball and have a fight
and maybe shoot somebody if they lose at pool.
Ooh,
it's a mess alright,
yes it's
Mile End.
[mumbled mutterings... you love it...]
Oo-ooh
Nobody wants to be your friend
'cause you're not from round here,
ooh
as if that was
something to be proud about.
The pearly king of the Isle of Dogs
feels up children in the bogs.
Down by the playing fields,
someone sets a car on fire I guess you have to go right down
before you understand just how,
how low,
how low a human being can go.
Ooh,
it's a mess alright,
yes it's
Mile End.
(don't do that! Leave it out!)
Bababa...
Lalala...

Re:Webcast

[Wolfrider]

"The Osbournes" are broadcast on MTV -- a CABLE channel -- you insensitive clod.

--Double clod if you're British - Ozzy certainly wasn't born in the US.
.

I am quite looking forward to this...

[Not Quite Jake]

Dr. Who!? Douglas Adams!? can't be beat i tells ya, can't be beat! i just finished reading "So long and thanks for all the fish" again and i still love it...hey do you think i can get people to call me "Wonko the Sane?" Or how's about "Wonka the Insane"

(pardon the gibberish, i am a tad intoxicated)

Re:I am quite looking forward to this...

[Anonymous Coward]

hey do you think i can get people to call me "Wonko the Sane?" Or how's about "Wonka the Insane"
(pardon the gibberish, i am a tad intoxicated)

Would you settle for "Not Quite Jake the Intoxicated"?

Re:I am quite looking forward to this...

[jeremyp]

Douglas Adams wrote lots of Dr Who episodes many of which were aired.

Re:I am quite looking forward to this...

[Anonymous Coward]

BAH, book two was the best.... books 3 and 4 sucked.

and book one was really only a lead-in to book two.

he shoud have stopped there and wrote something else.

Re:I am quite looking forward to this...

[gorilla]

Well not 'lots', three. City of Death, The Pirate Planet, and Shada.

Re:I am quite looking forward to this...

[QuackQuack]

I think he wrote 3 total One was called "Pirate Planet" or something like that. Another was called "City of Death", but it was actually written under a pseudonym. The third was this one, Shada, which was never finished due to a strike IIRC. He did serve as a script editor for Dr. Who for a season. BTW, I did own "Shada" on videotape. The BBC released it some years back with Tom Baker narrating the missing bits

Re:I am quite looking forward to this...

[acroyear]

yeah, that was it. BBC Contracting for script editors generally states that the script editor can't write more than 1 story per season. Eric Saward had a similar thing in Colin Baker's first season, writing under a pseudonym for his rewrites of Attack of the Cybermen since he'd already committed to that season's dalek episode for himself.

However, as Saward had done, Douglas did write a number of other mini-scenes throughout his season to adapt to the casting and other situations, such as coming up with ways to explain K-9's absence in certain stories, the Romana body change, and so forth. He also rewrote some of the final scene in the previous season's Armegeddon Factor, including introducing the randomizer.

Re:I am quite looking forward to this...

[AndroidCat]

And the first Dirk Gently book is basically a relabeled Dr. Who story.

Re:I am quite looking forward to this...

[ShawnDoc]

He only wrote 2 or three. However, he was the script editor for almost all of the Tom Baker years. This means he had input into almost all episodes, and he bitched in the past that he often had to (re)write entire story arcs.

Based on this, he probably made serious contributions to many episodes, even if he didn't get full credit.

Re:I am quite looking forward to this...

[Phexro]

"However, he was the script editor for almost all of the Tom Baker years."

No, he was script editor for the 17th season only. Outpost Gallifrey has a list of all his contributions to Doctor Who.

serious question

[molrak]

...but production was halted by industrial action.

What exactly does 'industrial action' mean?

Re:serious question

[JeremyALogan]

it's the kinda action (wink wink) you can only get from scary bands that like to make noise...

Re:serious question

[Anonymous Coward]

It means that they didn't quite pick an abandon gravle pit for the alien planet this time. Someone wanted to do more mineing :)

Re:serious question

[Anonymous Coward]

"Industrial action" means a strike (where the workers cease working).

Re:serious question

[Anonymous Coward]

It means being woken up by random bulldozers running over your house, just before the earth explodes and you are suddenly found upon an alien space vessel, which has functioned according to design by improbably saving you from global distruction.

Read the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, it's still worth it, even today.

Re:serious question

[Twirlip of the Mists]

There was a BBC strike in 1979. The script was complete, but it never went into production due to the stoppage.

Re:serious question

[PCM2]

What exactly does 'industrial action' mean?

It means the BBC Unions went on strike during the original filming. They never completed the episode, though a restored version was produced for home video with Tom Baker narrating the missing bits.

Re:serious question

[Graspee_Leemoor]

It did go into production, they just didn't finish filming it.

graspee

Re:serious question

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah it was a workers strike actually. I've got copies of the original new paper clippings (for real)

Re:serious question

[why-is-it]

It did go into production, they just didn't finish filming it.

It is unfinished, but it was released on video. If you have read the Dirk Gently novels, you will see more than a couple of plot similarities.

Re:serious question

[Anonymous Coward]

They did finish filming it, they just didn't finish editing it.

Re:serious question

[frankthechicken]

no, no, no, they did finish editing it, they just hadn't finished building some of the special effects, its kinda hard getting that futuristic cardboard wobble effect just right.

Re:serious question

[Anonymous Coward]

Union sods going on strike, that's what.

because..

[Anonymous Coward]

..maybe like the good doctor, Douglas Adams doesn't really ever die. ;)

Sigh. I hope.

Re:because..

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, you're on to something. There is something connected to each of us which persists after death of the body. I call it a 'soul', but you can call it whatever you like.

Plato, Buddha, and all them guys had this thing figured out too. Too bad Teddy Baseball didn't.

Re:because..

[cbuskirk]

{arogant sarcasm} How dare you insult Mr. Adams like that. As an ardant Athiest he would be quite offended at the notion of an afterlife. {/arogant sarcasm}
While I personally disagree with this, it is just one of many many quirks/traits/sidesplittingly-funny-nurosies that made Douglas Adams who he was. Now that he is dead and gone lets us thank (Anyone but God) and join The Great Propeht Zarquon in saying....
So long and thanks for all the laughs

Re:because..

[JimPooley]

It's not so much an afterlife, more a sort of apres vie...

Re:because..

[Anonymous Coward]

Douglas Adams is no longer an atheist: He's either a regretful theist, or nothing more than a collection of particles that formerly functioned as a cohesive human being.

Re:because..

[Anonymous Coward]

He's sleeping like Magrathea, waiting for the economy to catch up to him. Luxury planet
building requires a more sophisticated clientele.

Re:because..

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not so much an afterlife, more a sort of apres vie...

I'm sorry I'm a bit late. I've had the most ghastly time, all sorts of things cropping up at the last moment.

Re:because..

[Anonymous Coward]

*poof* // The Shade of Douglas Adams appears before you
"Actually, there is an afterlife. It seems that God has a sense of humour..."
*poof* // The Shade vanishes in a puff of logic.

one little detail...

[jesse.k]

what the poster forgets mention that this is not the TV show, but rather a web based audio drama.

sorry to get your hopes up, Whovians, but this isn't the new dr. who series you were promised.

Re:one little detail...

[tigress]

Audio? Like, a radio show?

Nothing big will ever come out of a radio show. =)

Why remake it?

[bovril]

There is already a Tom Baker version of Shada. It's a 2 tape set and I can get it at my local video store. The back of the slick makes reference to production hassles but I've never hired it because I've found that re-watching Dr Who (Blake's 7, Battle of the Planets, etc..) is an effective way of exterminating any sense of fond nostalgia.

Re:Why remake it?

[Graspee_Leemoor]

The Tom Baker version of Shada, i.e. the original and proper version of Shada was never completed due to a strike at the BBC. Way back whenever the BBC did the post-production on the unfinished scenes and got Tom Baker to do some new segments where he stands in a Dr. Who museum and narrates what happens in some scene that is missing.

They then released this version of Shada as a boxed set with the script.

I admire any new Who stuff they do, or rather I admire the effort, but nothing will ever be able to match the on-screen chemistry between Tom Baker and the sexy sexy super-sexy Ms. Ward.

In particular there is a scene at Prof. Chronotis' where the Prof., Romana and the Doctor are talking about Galifreyan stuff, and it just rocks. I think some of it is ad-libbed.

graspee

Re:Why remake it?

[Duds]

True, it won't match Baker.

Which is why it's actually kind of good that's it's an audio drama, it doesn't really have to.

Re:Why remake it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Possibly, but they're still damn fun to watch :)

Re:Why remake it?

[krugdm]

Karma :Karma Cameleon (It comes and goes)

That wretched Karma Cameleon circuit! I think I've got it fixed this time...

Re:Why remake it?

[VivianC]

In particular there is a scene at Prof. Chronotis' where the Prof., Romana and the Doctor are talking about Galifreyan stuff, and it just rocks. I think some of it is ad-libbed.

You will find that a lot of Prof. Chronotis made it into the first Dirk Gentley book. I had read the book long before seeing the special edition of Shada and it gave me the strangest sense of de ja vu.

Re:Why remake it?

[JBCybernautics]

Actually, if you want more of that strange sense of already-seen, may I suggest you also look at 'The City of Death', again with Mr. T. Baker and Lala Ward. Dirk Gentley lifted the plot. In a way, those two together kind of make a Dirk Gentley movie. You can feel a lot of Adams in the stories and characters (like the P.I. who likes thumping people on the head).

'The Pirate Planet' doesn't remind me of anything, though.

For those who haven't seen the special edition of Shada, I quite recommend it. Some important scenes are missing, including the exciting climax, but strangely, having Tom Baker narrate it works really well. I think it's proof of the charm of the series...losing the whiz-bang-wow special effects of the end doesn't really hurt the overall show.

"That's traffic control"

Re:Why remake it?

[Wolfrider]

IIRC, Tom Baker Married the actress that played Romana.
[pause]
Lucky bastich... [g]
.

eh?

[PositiveGround]

So what's this episode going to be called? The Hitchhikers Guide to the Space-Time Continuum? So Long and Thanks for All the Who?

Re:eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

The Tardis at the End of the Universe

Re:eh?

[lemonparty.org]

Douglas Adams actually (at leasted partly) wrote many other Who episodes.

Re:eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

If its thanks for all the Who, then should the theme song be changed to Teenage Wasteland or something?

Although, that sounds like a good final album for them "So Long and Thanks for all The Who".

Re:eh?

[gaudior]

Teenage Wasteland? I'm not familiar with that song from The Who.

Oh, You mean 'Baba O'Reilly'. That's the name of the song, that has the phrase 'teenage wasteland' in the chorus.

Re:eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhm, maybe you're not familar with Lifehouse Chronicles. Since The Who IS Pete Townshend.

It has a song called "Teenage Wasteland" which is a longer version of "Baba O'Reilly".

Here is the lyrics for the uninformed you:
Out here in the fields
I fight for my meals
I get my back into my living
I don't need to fight
To prove I'm right
I don't need to be forgiven

My kids ain't gonna break my heart
My greed ain't gonna spoil their part
This land just has to be a new one
I'm gonna tan underneath the new sun

Don't cry
Don't raise your eye
It's only teenage wasteland

Don't have the latest suit
The long grass is my fruit
I am really ordinary man
The family is free to do just as they please
And we all sleep together in the caravan

Hey you don't walk on the turnips
My Lord when will they learn it
Look there nations of traveling children
Nowhere to go to escape the chill wind

Don't cry
Don't raise your eye
It's only teenage wasteland

My kids ain't gonna break my heart
My greed ain't gonna spoil their part
This land just has to be a new one
I'm gonna tan underneath the new sun

Sally take my hand
Travel south cross land
Put out the fire
Don't look past my shoulder
The exodus is here
The happy ones are near
Let's get together
Before we get much older

Teenage wasteland
Teenage wasteland
Teenage wasteland
It's only teenage wasteland
Teenage wasteland
It's only teenage wasteland
Teenage wasteland
It's only teenage wasteland

They're all wasted!

Yes! The BBC has done it

[Kiwi]

Finally, after six years, we have another Dr. Who episode. From the BBC, to boot. This can be the sign of more things to come.

I can see why they chose Shada; Douglas Adams has a reputation which makes it that much easier to secure funding. Now, hopefully, this will not be a one-time shot like the 1996 Dr. Who episode was. Since they will build some sets, such as a Tardis set, this will make it more cost-effective to make more Dr. Who episodes if this program generates enough interest.

I am wondering how they will handle Ramona; there was one sentence which mentions Lalla Ward (the actress who played the second Ramona) but it is not clear whether they are referring to her role in the original production, or whether they are referring to her playing the role again in this production.

Fandom will have to come up with a story about how Ramona and K9 got out of N-space and got back together with the doctor again (with a possible regeneration if a different actress plays Ramona).

Glad to see somehting more substansial from BBC besides a vague promise from some BBC executive.

- Sam

The most dangerous book

[Zayin]

Shada, which was originally planned to conclude Dr Who's 17th season, finds the doctor teaming up with Romana (Lalla Ward) and K9 (John Leeson) in trying to track down the most dangerous book in the universe.

I think someone already did that. I get emails all the time offering "the most dangerous book in the universe" for sale.

Re:The most dangerous book

[Anonymous Coward]

That wouldn't be a book filled with poetry from a certain race, would it?

Dr. Who is the bomb.

[Anonymous Coward]

That all i want to say. I loved it then. I love it now.

New Doctor

[Anonymous Coward]

Vote for Anthony Stewart Head as the new Doctor. McGann isn't as lame as Sylvester McCoy, but he doesn't really cut it.

Re:New Doctor

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, I agree. and I'll throw in all the expletives I can think of if it helps....

Re:New Doctor

[pommiekiwifruit]

I thought Pierce Brosnan was the new Doctor. Oh wait...

Re:New Doctor

[perlyking]

I thought Pierce Brosnan was the new Doctor. Oh wait...

No.. but in a sudden change of heart (after certain key BBC execs found new BMWs outside their houses) the Doctor will no longer use the tardis and will instead drive a BMW.

Re:New Doctor

[b1t r0t]

And he's got new catch phrases:

"Who. Doctor Who."

I'd like a jynnan tonix, shaken, not stirred.

Also, Dame Judi Dench will appear as Romana.

Re:New Doctor

[Aexia]

Pierce Brosnan is currently playing the latest incarnation of well-known Time Lord James Bond.

We just need a Doctor Who/James Bond crossover to explain all this.

It's an audio play!

[PCM2]

From the article:

Following several false starts in attempting to bring it back, the drama will finally be premièred in a webcast on BBCi in the spring ... Produced by the Big Finish company, it stars Fox in the role of Professor Chronotis, with Sachs as the evil Skagra.

For those who don't know, Big Finish has been producing a series of audio dramas starring various incarnations of the Doctor. They use the original actors (Colin Baker, Sylvester McCoy, Peter Davidson, and some of the companions, among others) and they have access to some of the original theme music, sound effects, etc. There's nothing in this article to make me believe this is anything else but another in the series. If the BBC was really going to produce a video version of the Doctor -- with all the budgetary concerns that entails (no snickers from the Doctor Who haters out there, please) -- do you really think they'd premiere it as a Webcast? No, expect this one coming your way via MP3 or RealAudio sometime soon.

Re:It's an audio play!

[Czernobog]

Considering the BBC has been experimenting with ogg webcasts, I wonder if there's any chance of the play being cast as an ogg stream...

Re:It's an audio play!

[mbourgon]

Just an FYI - the radio shows ROCK. Many are written by former writers of the show, they have the actual actors performing their original roles (one with the Brigadier, even!). This is as close to the show as you'll get.

-1 Redundant

[Niggle]

IIRC, most of this was already filmed with Tom Baker as the doctor. If you remember "The 5 Doctors" (where they get transported to Gallifrey to loot Rasilons tomb), Tom Baker's doctor is grabbed from a punt in Cambridge. I believe that was part of Shada.

From the article:
> Produced by the Big Finish company, it stars Fox in the role
> of Professor Chronotis, with Sachs as the evil Skagra.
> Gordon is behind the silky voice of Skagra's spaceship, and
> Hayes makes a cameo performance as college porter Wilkin.

I think Douglas Adams eventually re-wrote this as one of the Dirk Gently books. One of them definitely includes a Professor Chronotis and lots of time travel. I think that bits of the same book came from another Doctor Who story as well (the one with all the extra Mona Lisas).

OK, it's an audio-only webcast

[Kiwi]

Not clear in the article, but this is an audio-only webcast. Oh well; nice thought while it lasted. - Sam

Re:OK, it's an audio-only webcast

[Phexro]

It's also not made clear that this isn't a BBC production. It's produced by Big Finish, which has been making excellent Doctor Who audio drama for a few years now.

I expect they will have a release on CD before too long.

K9 is a PERSON???

[The Original Yama]

From the article: "...Dr Who's 17th season, finds the doctor teaming up with Romana (Lalla Ward) and K9 (John Leeson)..."

So is K9 going to be some guy (John Leeson) in a suit??? How will he fit in there? From what I remember, K9 was much smaller than a normal-size human. Is John Leeson some kind of midget?

Re:K9 is a PERSON???

[Anonymous Coward]

Er, John Leeson was one of the people who provided K9's voice in the original series. In fact for quite a number of episodes.

Re:K9 is a PERSON???

[Shimbo]

So is K9 going to be some guy (John Leeson) in a suit

It's, like earlier recent episodes, mostly streamed audio, with some cartoon style images. So of course they credit the voice actors equally.

Re:K9 is a PERSON???

[silhouette]

How will he fit in there? From what I remember, K9 was much smaller than a normal-size human.

Ah yes, but you forget - it's much bigger on the inside than it is on the outside.

Re:K9 is a PERSON???

[Anonymous Coward]

The proper "Who" terminology for this state is "Dimensionally Transcendental"

Re:K9 is a PERSON???

[Anonymous Coward]

John Leeson does the VOICE of K9, dumbass!

Re:K9 is a PERSON???

[The Original Yama]

It's called a joke, dumbass!

Re:I am quite looking forward to this...49

[Anonymous Coward]

"(pardon the gibberish, i am a tad intoxicated)"

Hey! Let's all start singing. 49 bottles of beer on the wall. 49 bottles of beer...

Sure...

[Anonymous Coward]

But here's an interesting question. How many people here have seen the old "Dr. What" show? I watched it once, on the BBC or the PPC or something like that, and by the end I was rolling around on the ground, trying to claw my eyes from their sockets. "Why?" I hear you ask. Simple. The very Britishness of the show got into my skull and put a demon named Todd in it. I wrote a letter of complaint to the MMD or the DVG and they basically responded with a question, like one of those unintelligible Zen koans. I actually had to go down to the GHG or TPY offices (I took the number 41 bus) with a pickle jar containing my eyeballs in brine (I had already eaten the pickles, mind you) to get them to refund my lost time. Anyway, the Dr. What (or was it Dr. Whence?) show didn't last very long. I think they cancelled it after four episodes and fifty or sixty thousand complaints (most of which came from myself and my late aunt Charfles (with a silent "f")). I hope this Dr. Who show is better, but you know what they say: if it comes from England, you just can't trust it not to put a demon in your brain.

Re:Sure...

[Walt Dismal]

Exterrrrminate....exterrrminate. We will rule. We will conquer. We plan to introduce Palladium to an unsuspecting Earth.

Re:Sure...

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you have *any* idea of the American Shite we have to put up with over here?

**** off you twat.

Re:Sure...

[joss]

Whoever modded this as a troll is a fuckwit, it's art.

Re:I am quite looking forward to this...49

[Anonymous Coward]

You are so gonna regret this in the morning.

I've Got The Origional "Shada" On Video

[tokki]

With Tom Baker (the actor who played Dr Who in the episode) narrating the parts that were left out because they weren't produced.

They released it as a special video a couple of years ago.

It's not fair!

[Azahar]

I wanted to be the next doctor. Everyone else has their turn.

ideal fantasy production

[tomlord]

Screw douglas adams.

Ya know what I wanna see? A really high budget Dr Who film about his origins, staring Tom Baker who's acting and portrayal-of-this-character-in-particular ability was barely exposed during his stint on the series, yet pretty much defined it for many americans. Man he managed to make gold out of average scripts ("I gave him a blank look"). I'll bet it'd make plenty o' money. Something about the politics of the timelords and the doctor's renegade nature.

Dr Who is a great low-budget tv vehicle -- you can do nearly any cheezy sci-fi plot within its framwork. Nevertheless, there's some neat ideas there, Baker's era stands out among all the others, and I'd like to see more. (Gosh, is baker still around? I'll bet he's all grey now.) (And, ya gotta love all those $3 BBC special effects -- really.)

Make it dark, dark, dark and funny. And make cheezy special effects part of the theme.

And bring in Leela. She was hot and smart (Janus thorn, anyone?). and sarah jane, cause she's cool too and so much a part of the tradition.

children's series, indeed,
-t

Re:ideal fantasy production

[Anonymous Coward]

Speaking of Leela (Louise Jameson), what about in the Sunmakers episode when she's climbing up the ladder and then passes the camera side-on with her crotch at camera level... she's got no damn underwear on under that little leather loin skin. Man when I was 10yo I thought that was the sheeite!

Re:ideal fantasy production

[tomlord]

Damn. I wish I recalled that or could find a jpg on-line. I'm really not into promoting conventional conceptions of sexiness -- but Louise was hot! I think it was the way she exuded a warrior's competence (plus, of course, the skimpy custumes).

Ok -- having found a "fan site" and his official site, it seems Tom Baker is very much alive, and very much grey. So, instead of the origins of Dr. Who, how about a combination of his origins and (gasp!) his fate. Screw perfect continuity with the TV series which is incoherent anyway.

"gobbldygoodk with conviction" -- Tom Baker
-t

Re:ideal fantasy production

[Anonymous Coward]

Tom Baker is alive, and recently stared alongside Vic Reeves and Bob Mortimer in a remake of the television series Randall and Hopkirk (Deceased) It was a good show, a good series, and Tom Baker was as good as he always is.

Re:ideal fantasy production

[epeus]

The ideal Dr Who cast for today would be Stephen Fry as the Doctor, Alan Rickman as the Master and Ann Friel as the assistant.

Re:ideal fantasy production

[mikerich]

Hmmmm, how about Richard O'Brien? Funny, slightly sinister and he'd be great in a musical episode.

Best wishes,
Mike.

Re:ideal fantasy production

[Anonymous Coward]

Look, I'll be the first to say that Tom Baker is the "best" doctor but...I mean come on, he's not the only person to hold that particular office. Patrick Troughton is probably a close "second" in my book, of all the Doctors. Pity so many of Troughton's episodes are missing (although the recently rediscovered Tomb of the Cybermen is worth the $30 for the DVD).

Secondly, if you're going to do an "origins" episode, the Tom Baker Doctor is probably the WRONG one. Have you watched any of the Hartnell episodes? The "original" Doctor was an OLD MAN, a very grandfatherly fellow quite unlike Tom Baker's Doctor. He makes it quite clear in the very first episode that he's "exiled" and "on the run"...it would be interesting to hear the prehistory!

Then again...Baker is not the spring chicken he used to be anymore...wonder if he could pull off a passable Hartnell imitation?

Re:ideal fantasy production

[AndroidCat]

I'll be the first to say that Tom Baker is the "best" doctor

Nar, you're far far too late for that! :^)

Re:ideal fantasy production

[jruschme]

It seems like the question with an origins story would be, how old does The Doctor *have* to be? We see him on Earth as an old man, but is there anything which establishes that he went directly there from Gallifrey and/or how long he was there?

As for a passable Hartnell imitation... how about Patrick Stweart ala Ebeneezer Scrooge?

>>

Re:ideal fantasy production

[Phexro]

Yeah, for his first episode, he could fix the Tardis' chamelion circuit, and materialize on Earth in the 70s, disguised as a castle. A newly-engaged couple would drop by unexpectedly, and he could unravel the mystery of their sexuality.

We could call it "Doctor Whorror Picture Show."

Re:ideal fantasy production

[Anonymous Coward]

He almost certainly spent a great deal of time outside Gallifrey before arriving at Totter's yard. Always thought that they ought to have someone portray a younger version of Hartnell's Doctor and do a series that would sort of explain his origins (not explaining everything, of course) and cover some of his earliest adventures. I figure that Susan's character wasn't really a timelord/Gallifreyan but a transplanted Earthling, and that there is some sort of crucial link between Earth and Gallifrey's history that perhaps only the Doctor is aware of.

Re:ideal fantasy production

[Anonymous Coward]

Hartnell's Doctor was really grand even though Hartnell's age was beginning to show and the scripts at the time weren't always the best. He had a kind of flair and self-assuredness that was very much unlike Troughton and all the later Doctors.

Re:ideal fantasy production

[Anonymous Coward]

Few British actors nowadays could do a good Hartnell impersonation. The trouble with Patrick Stewart is that his voice isn't right. He has the same problem that Charlton Heston has in that his voice is so resonant and his delivery is so perfect that it often sounds kind of campy. Casting a star trek icon in a completely difference science fiction series would also be a bad idea.

Dirk Gently & Shada

[JimPooley]

Most of the plot of Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency is a retread of Shada. When the video release of the filmed bits of Shada plus Tom Baker's linking narration came out. Adams donated his royalties to charity, which stopped any annoying legal turmoil over the fact that he'd used the same plot in Dirk Gently.

Life, The Universe and Everything used large amounts of a rejected Dr. Who plot which was originally put forward as Dr. Who and the Krikkitmen.
Once Adams ran out of radio series and old Dr. Who ideas to recycle, he really went downhill...

Re:Dirk Gently & Shada

[Shimbo]

Most of the plot of Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency is a retread of Shada.

Interesting. I always thought it was a rewrite of 'City of Death'. Douglas Adams humour always sat uneasily in the Doctor Who format for me but as a book Dirk Gently is excellent.

The idea of professor Chronotis was particularly fine. I had the privilege of some tutorials from an old professor when I was an undergraduate, and when I spoke later to other people they all said: "Professor X. - he's the top man in the field - didn't realise he was still alive".

Re:Dirk Gently & Shada

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes -- important bits of both "Shada" and "City of Death" were used in Dirk Gently, though I wouldn't exactly call it a "retread" of either story.

The funny thing about this is, I read once where Adams was supposedly unhappy about the "Shada" video being released, precisely because of the reused elements in Dirk Gently. (This was according to a fan at a book signing.) What's funny about that is that "City of Death", of course, DID air way back when, and that certainly didn't deter him.

Re:Dirk Gently & Shada

[Anonymous Coward]

"...Once Adams ran out of radio series and old Dr. Who ideas to recycle, he really went downhill..."

I don't know about that, I just think he grew up a little bit and started thinking about other things. I loved his early stuff, too, but Last Chance to See is a wonderful read in its own right. Give it a chance.

Re:Dirk Gently & Shada

[a1englishman]

It is really sad that you think Mr. Adams went downhill after he "ran out of radio series and old Dr. Who ideas to recycle". That's a truely cynical view, and possibly sponsored by not reading Salom of a Doubt.

Fiction writing is all about creating a series of scenarios and chaining them together with plot. If he came up with the ideas while trying to create a Dr. Who eppisode, or something in HHG, that's fine. Just because the idea didn't fit in one place, doesn't mean it's rubbish.

Reading Salom made me even sader of our loss of Douglas. Some of his short writings were brillant, and the beginings of SoaD had so much potential. He never lost his ability to tell a good story, or to paint a vibrant image like ...they hung in the sky, much in the way that bricks don't....

I will agree, that Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency is a very good retelling of Shada. The electric monk was a very good addition.

actually

[v8interceptor]

The footage of Tom Baker in "The Five Doctors" was from Shada, as he pulled out at the last minute, and they had to do a bit of a re-write at the last minute - hence the story seems a bit odd. I really hope this one isn't like the last Dr Who they made - that sucked.

Re:actually

[Biscit]

Are you talking about the TV Movie or this year's "Real Time"?

Re:actually

[DuncMan]

The last 'web cast' Doctor Who they (BBCi) made was "Real Time", with Colin Baker as the 6th Doctor. I thought it was rather good.

You can refresh your memory at http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/doctorwho/realtime/index .shtml .

Perhaps you're not referring to the last 'web cast' Doctor Who adventure, if so what are you referring to?

Re:Industrial Action?

[Anonymous Coward]

OMG, I've totally had my eyes opened to new horizons by this post! Moderators, do your thing and let's get this guy some karma!

Re:Who is Dilbert playing?

[Anonymous Coward]

WOW, really excellent point! I wish I had some mod points for you. Moderators, are you listening?

Re:Read the title before posting ...

[LittleBigScript]

is that sarcastic?
don't panic

Re:Industrial Action?

[Anonymous Coward]

Zwei
Vier
Zwei

Plot Summary

[ewhac]

The entire script used to be online, but I can't seem to find it anymore. A shame, because it had some funny lines in it.

If you've read Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency, you already have a vague idea of Shada's premise. Adams re-used some characters in Shada to create DGHDA.

Anyway, check out the detailed plot summary. A fun story.

Schwab

Re:Plot Summary

[A_Duck_Named_Ping]

This script is still on line and linked from the above plot summary:

• More information, including the scripts of the episodes, is available from the Script Project page.

.. and there are some funny lines especially if you replace certain words and phrases with "slashdot posters" ..

DOCTOR: Well, When I was on the river I heard a strange sound, a sort of babble of inhuman voices. Didn't you Romana?

ROMANA: Yes.

PROFESSOR: Oh just undergraduates talking to each other I expect. I've trying to have it banned....

Re:Read the title before posting ...

[Anonymous Coward]

YHBT. YHL. HAND.

Available in OGG format?

[imag0]

If it's not available in OGG, I want nothing to do with it.

yes, this is a joke. Seems to be the prevailing whine on slashdot for OGG to I thought i'd throw my 0.02 in as well

Re:Available in OGG format?

[h0tblack]

Although the beeb insists on using Real for 99% of it's audio and video these days, the geezers in the background tested ogg vorbis a while back. It was a great trial IMHO and had some good content. It was a shame when they stopped the streams, but now, with the legal issues resolved, they're planning on bringing them back up. This could bode well, especially with the increase in streaming content from the beeb.

+1 Weird, but damn funny!

[MonTemplar]

Better up your medication, if I were you...

Why Not Use Tom ?

[NexusTw1n]

Surely if it's audio only, why use Paul McGann and not the incredible Tom Baker ?

It's a story from his regeneration, his snow white hair doesn't matter with no pictures.

I like McGann, but Tom was the definitive Who.

Re:Why Not Use Tom ?

[MonTemplar]

Three thoughs come to mind :

1) Paul McGann may not be demanding as much money to take part.
2) If Lalla Ward is taking part as Romana, that might cause problems - she was briefly married to Tom Baker, but they separated.
3) Tom Baker seems to have lost his marbles a bit with the advancing years...

Re:Why Not Use Tom ?

[AndrewHowe]

I saw Paul McGann while cycling to work this morning... Saw him a couple of weeks ago in Sainsburys too.
I thought he was a pretty good Doctor. But then I quite liked Colin Baker too, so maybe I am mad or something.
Anyway, Tom Baker was almost everyone's favourite, and Sylvester McCoy was the worst... Stupid question mark wearing mumble mumble...

Re:Why Not Use Tom ?

[Atrahasis]

I don't think Tom ever had what could be called a complete set of marbles....

Re:Why Not Use Tom ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why does everyone hate Sylvester McCoy so much?? I just watched "Remembrance of the Daleks" and I quite enjoyed it. As for the question marks, I mean come on...it's not like the other Doctors weren't wearing them either. I think it started with Tom Baker in his final season, and was carried through to McCoy. If you want to complain about anything, how about Colin Baker's siezure-inducing "Doctor" outfit?!

Sylvester McCoy put a nice mean streak into the Doctor's character...a sort of Patrick Troughton-with-a-touch-of-the-Master Doctor.

Re:Why Not Use Tom ?

[fr2asbury]

Sometimes, I think it must be me that's mad. My personal favorite was the never mentioned Peter Davison. I also like the first doctor, whose name escapes me. You know, the quaker oats lookin' guy.

Maybe it's that they have straight hair without looking like Moe from the three stooges.

Re:Why Not Use Tom ?

[b1t r0t]

I'm kind of partial to John Pertwee myself. Pertwee and Baker were the best. Of course they were the ones us "bloody yanks" got to see the most too. Don't think I ever did get to see any Sylvester McCoy episodes.

Re:Why Not Use Tom ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I liked Paul McGann as the Doctor, and I liked Sylvester McCoy, too. I just didn't like the stories they were in. (Contrast with Colin Baker, where I liked neither.)

Re:Why Not Use Tom ?

[foistboinder]

Anyway, Tom Baker was almost everyone's favourite, and Sylvester McCoy was the worst... Stupid question mark wearing mumble mumble...

I alway thought Colin Baker was the worst. I rather liked Sylvester McCoy.

FWIW, I started watching Dr. Who back in the John Pertwee days.

Re:Why Not Use Tom ?

[mcleland]

I think one reason we (or at least I) like Tom Baker's doctor is his facial expressions. Who (ha ha!) can forget the hilarious look on his face he gets that's somewhere between bewilderment and stupidity. Absolutely he could deliver the lines, but we won't get his face and body movements.

Doesn't mean he shouldn't do it, but that half his greatness won't be there.

Re:Why Not Use Tom ?

[KnightStalker]

I think McCoy was a good Doctor. But he had horrible writing. Colin Baker was... interesting. I've only seen a few of his (Trial of a Time Lord series and some other one).

Re:Why Not Use Tom ?

[foistboinder]

I think McCoy was a good Doctor. But he had horrible writing.

There was a time during the McCoy era when I thought the writing was getting pretty good. I don't remember if was in the beginning, middle, or end of his run.

Re:Why Not Use Tom ?

[Vector7]

I've read that for McCoy's first season they were using scripts originally written for Colin Baker. I don't remember most of McCoy's stories very well, but I think as a character he really came into his own in his second or third season, and I enjoyed him as the Doctor.

That makes me wonder what happened to Colin Baker, I've never heard the story - did they fire him? did he quit?

Re:Why Not Use Tom ?

[DuncMan]

Tom Baker had his moments- and there were a lot of them, when he failed to shine it was through poor script/ story or pornographic over-use of K9- but he was a product of and for his time.

Tom's Doctor was an unpredictable loon, an idiot savant solving problems with ludicrous coincidence and verbal sparring.

I prefer either Jon Pertwee's 3rd Doctor or Sylvester McCoy's 7th Doctor, but I like what I've seen of Paul McGann's 8th Doctor.

It's actually impossible to do a definitive "top/ favourite Doctor" because they're all meant to be different (unlike, say, James Bond) and they're all excellent. Just different degrees or types of excellence.

As an aside, I wish Colin Baker had had a chance to develop his Doctor. All those postponements and cancellations meant that we never really had a chance to see what he could do with the role.

Re:Why Not Use Tom ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably the end of his run. The strange thing about the early McCuoy episodes is that they look positively amateurist, and they were produced by John Nathan Turner, who did a great job with the last few Tom Baker episodes when he first took on the job. I guess part of the problem also was worn-out script writers and the BBC management constantly changing Dr. Who's weekly timeslot.

Re:Why Not Use Tom ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Colin Baker was told that he wouldn't be allowed to complete the upcoming season (apparently he got the blame for flagging ratings--I think the people who put him in that awful suit, cast Peri's character, and wrote those annoyingly bad scripts are to blame), so he left before production began and they filmed that hasty regeneration sequence on the Tardis control room floor with Syl playing Colin Baker's corpse.

Re:Why Not Use Tom ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Tom Baker's Doctor, much like Troughton's Doctor, liked to play dumb so that people would underestimate him.

This is frightening

[yroJJory]

After seeing how Fox destroyed my favorite series with that attrocious movie in 1996 (starring Paul McGann), I suppose the BBC won't do worse.

Still, I hope they don't kill it with high production values and lots of orchestrated scores. Perhaps they'll be smart enough to hire the same composers who worked at the BBC Radiophonic Workshop back in the 70's, or, failing that, get Wendy Carlos to use her Moog goodness!

Part of the great thing about Doctor Who is how innovative the production designers were without having a budget to support them properly.

While the scripts are key, and Douglas Adams' have proved to be particularly good (i.e. "The Pirate Planet" is classic Adams), the cheesy production values are still key.

Please, BBC, don't let us down!

Re:This is frightening

[Big Mark]

Quote:

"Please, BBC, don't let us down!"

The BBC will throw sackloads of cash at it as it is a guaranteed ratings hit in the UK. (Damn us and our good taste!. Er, except for Marmite ;) Which is a shame, as the baddies made from egg cartons and poster paints were genius.

Wonder if it will still make me scared...

Bigger and More Usefull Article

[seh99]

here
Seems that it will be the same deal as the previous "new" adventure "Death Comes To Time", with pictures being played over a radio dramatization of the script. Shame, whould have liked an actual tv program.
Good to see Manuel from Fawltey Towers in there, though I pass up the oportunity for lame Manuel/Doctor humour.

Tom Baker

[Malorian]

Aye, you should also check out his stint in 'Fun at the Funeral Parlour' (wierder than League of Gentlemen at times) as Quimby :)

The series also has Brian Blessed apprearing as himself basically taking the piss out of himself-- "Gordon's alive??"

Re:Tom Baker

[Anonymous Coward]

I've never gotten into The Legue of Gentlemen so I gave Fun at the Funeral Parlour a miss. Then again, I've never watched an episode of The Office either...

Whilst on the subject

[Dr Thrustgood]

(which is rather timely when you take into consideration all the strikes currently taking place here in England)

Some might be interested to know that Red Dwarf was very nearly not made due to the same type of industrial action a few years later down the line.

Rather depressing that whilst the unions fight for their workers' rights, it can mean that great TV might never have been made. Of all the things!

It's going to really twist continuity

[troff]

It IS going to twist continuity. Badly.

Question 1: Does this mean that the Fourth (Tom Baker) Doctor will have been in "Shada", gone to Cambridge, dealt with Skagra, or not?

Question 2: If not, then where/when exactly did President Borusa snatch the Fourth Doctor and Romana from (in "The Five Doctors" - as footage from the incomplete "Shada" was taken from that to make up for Tom Baker's absence when they filmed T5D...)?

Question 3: If it IS Paul McGann's Doctor (Eighth), then it means that Romana is currently President of Gallifrey with K-9 in attendance, after the Fourth Doctor left them both in a completely different universe ("E-Space")... and why would Romana be hanging around the Doctor then when she's President of Gallifrey? She never had much need for him until the day when she was going to use him and effectively let him die to get what she wanted

Question 4: Not to mention that Romana and all but maybe four Time Lords are suspected most likely dead and the Doctor's in shock-induced amnesia (forgetting what Gallifrey is or who he is), because Gallifrey was destroyed (in the BBC novel "The Ancestor Cell"), so where's she coming from? And for that matter, to where are they going to return the "most dangerous [Gallifreyan] book in the Universe" to when Gallifrey isn't even a smoking cinder in space?

Question 5: Not to mention that in "The Ancestor Cell", Romana had already regenerated away from her Lalla Ward / "Princess Astra copy" body into something newer, by the time Paul McGann's Eighth Doctor had taken over...

Some VERY, VERY, VERY deft script-editing is going to be required to fix this. Sadly, the seemingly non-existent Continuity/Canon Cops at the BBC don't seem to care about fixing it the way continuity's been bollocked.

The Doctor's continuity has been BADLY scrambled from the very minute in the Fox/BBC telemovie we heard the Master say the Doctor was half-human (something useless which was NEVER hinted at in the series at ALL; never had any suitable explanation in the sequel books and actually proved to make things worse, rather than actually explain anything).

Even worse, some of the "more famous" authors of the current BBC and previous 90s Virgin Books series have been allowed to bollock it up even worse; very, very, very badly.

<rant> Especially by pretentious authors who decided that the Doctor didn't need and should never, ever have a continuous, single, canon continuity because "that would just be too limiting and narrow-minded". I'm desperately resisting the urge to name names - but thanks to you, for screwing it all up. </rant>

For an excellent site which summarises nearly ALL the Doctor Who stories available, try David Boies's <http://www.drwhoguide.com/who.htm>; look up the Fourth Doctor's "Shada" (and when it's positioned), the Eighth Doctor's "The Ancestor Cell", the Fifth Doctor's "The Five Doctors"...

Re:It's going to really twist continuity

[Jim Hall]

It IS going to twist continuity. Badly. [..continuity points deleted..] Some VERY, VERY, VERY deft script-editing is going to be required to fix this. Sadly, the seemingly non-existent Continuity/Canon Cops at the BBC don't seem to care about fixing it the way continuity's been bollocked.

Dude, you need to get out more. Turn off the TV and go play in the big blue room, the one with the bright yellow orb. Dr Who is only a television show.

Re:It's going to really twist continuity

[Anonymous Coward]

holy crap, you are the biggest dork ever. like, seriously. ever. kudos. i hope the atomic wedgies don't hurt too bad.

Re:It's going to really twist continuity

[Anonymous Coward]

Excuse me, but I always knew the Doctor had two hearts while watching the series in the 70's and 80's. If that doesn't make him obviously not-quite-human then perhaps it's the regeneration that first made me wonder...

Re:It's going to really twist continuity

[troff]

It was a very GOOD TV show and it's a shame to see it go south. I've gotten out way too much lately and had far too much of the big blue room; I'm sitting down and turning on the TV now just to relax. C'mon, allow me to enjoy my small beige room with the small black box.

Re:It's going to really twist continuity

[Anonymous Coward]

Ummm, repeat after me: it's just a TV show.

"It's just a TV show."

Feel better?

Re:It's going to really twist continuity

[Masem]

In regards to the books, there's plenty of 'time' between the end of the FOX movie (yes, BBC considers that canon) to when the BBC timeline starts in "The 8 Doctors" book (the first BBC-published novel, and where he picks up Sam, starting that storyline) for the Doctor to have solo adventures.

(Technically, the last Virgin DW-blessed book has Benny meeting the McGann reincarnation one more time; after this one, the series became the New Adventures, and Virgin wasn't allowed to use any characters or references to DW, only the characters that were specifically introduced in the Virgin run of DW books (Benny, Jason, Chris, etc), which of course went down the crapper really fast as they included elements of the big canon events in the BBC series but didn't actually mention them by name or details, and the vagueness of it all got annoying. From what I've seen, the Virgin books are not considered canon at this point, which unfortunately wrecks a lot of the good plot continuation they had with the 7th Doctor as being the Guardian of Time, more Valeyard foreshadowing, and more. Of course, most DW fans think that allowing even Ancestrial Cell to be considered canon wrecks the entire DW universe...)

And I don't think individual authors are necessarily screwing this up. I read the BBC writer's bible once at their Cult site, and it seems to me that prospective writers with stories will be asked to make their they are up to date on continuity, and not to introduce anything that 'upsets' the balance unless specifically asked to by the book series' overseers. That is, I'm pretty sure books like Interference, Shadows of Avalon, Ancestrial Cell, and the (something) of Hernietta Street one, where crucial canon elements were made, had been thoroughly discussed among a number of people before the athors were allowed to write them. Other books are more placeholders and not meant to disrupt the current canon too much (such as The Year of Intelligent Tigers and Hope, for example).

At least they aren't totally messing up the past continuity with the 'missing adventures' series using the other regenerations and past companions (though right now I'm reading through Asylum where they force a meeting of Nyssa well past her time in the TARDIS with the 4th Doctor before he even meet Nyssa... yeah....)

Re:It's going to really twist continuity

[Duds]

I always assumed they followed the star trek model and the books are not "canonical" anyway

Re:It's going to really twist continuity

[QuackQuack]

Dude,

Continuity has ALWAYS been screwed up in this series. There are so many examples. For one small example, despite the frequent, cheesy, multi-doctor storylines. Why do the past doctors have no memory of their future selves? Why do the present doctors have no memory of what their past selves did? (IE in the 2 doctors, why doesn't the sixth doctor not remember that he visited the space station with a message from Gallifrey as the 2nd doctor?) I could give many examples.

There is a simple way to reconcile all inconsistancies, including this one. Since the timelords travel in time, and there are several renegade timelords who are always trying to muck with history. They could in theory, change past and future events and make something that you saw happen in the series never happen.

Do you think the doctor can always manage to show up just in time to foil the Master's plot? What if the Master and the Rani are executing separate operations simultaneously at different points in space and time? There again, if two things are occuring at different points in time, how can they be occuring simultaneouly? Of course they can't, yet this type of thing has been used as a plot device too many times.

Anyway maybe some renegade time traveler caused the events in Shada to never have occured in the 4th doctors time. Maybe the fact that the Timelords pulled the 4th doctor out of the Shada episode, and returns him to the end of the Shada episode negates the whole Shada episode.

And these same events maybe lead to the doctor to never visit E-space, thus never leaving Romana and K-9 there (there are actually 2 or 3 K-9's BTW). In turn, this would mean that much of the fifth doctor never happened, since the Doctor never would have found Adrick. See? Everything you know is wrong.

So now the Eighth doctor (who really should be manipulated out of existance because that Fox movie that introduced him was unforgivable) has to come in and fix the mess that the fourth doctor never did.

(my brain hurts)

Re:It's going to really twist continuity

[Anonymous Coward]

Question 6: ???
Question 7: Profit!

Re:It's going to really twist continuity

[Woko]

Of course, most DW fans think that allowing even Ancestrial Cell to be considered canon wrecks the entire DW universe...)

I think Lawrence Mile's review of The Ancestor Cell pretty much sums up a lot of people's feelings about that book.

Credit correction

[troff]

Big oopsie on my part. The very excellent Doctor Who Web Guide is managed by a DOMINIQUE Boies and Cameron Dixon. My big bad. Sincere apologies.

Very seriously, visit http://www.drwhoguide.com for a rather comprehensive and excellent synopsis site.

Grabbed from the punt.

[dpilot]

Yes, the scene was from "Shada."

I have VHS of both "The 5 Doctors" and "Shada". The "Shada" release I have wasn't part of any fancy souvenier set, just a tape. It appears to have the film they had, plus Tom Baker narrating through the missing parts.

A better article (from gallifreyone.com)

[shadowlight1]

BBCi has revealed plans for its 40th anniversary of Doctor Who webcast: a remake by Big Finish Productions of the classic "lost" Doctor Who story Shada, written by the late Douglas Adams. "Shada" was originally abandoned due to an industrial strike, although it was eventually released on video with linking narration by Tom Baker. In this new version of "Shada", the Eighth Doctor (Paul McGann) is reunited with old friends Romana (Lalla Ward) and K-9 (John Leeson) "in a quest to track down the most dangerous book in the universe." The cast features such notables as James Fox ("A Passage to India," "The Remains of the Day") as Professor Chronotis, Andrew Sachs (best remembered as daffy waiter Manuel on "Fawlty Towers") as Skagra, Sean Biggerstaff (Oliver Wood in the "Harry Potter" films) as Chris Parsons, Hannah Gordon (presenter of UK Channel Four's "Watercolor Challenge" and originally in the Doctor Who serial "The Highlanders") as the voice of Skagra's ship, Susannah Harker ("Ultraviolet") as Clare Keightley, Melvyn Hayes ("Quatermass II," "Ain't Half Hot, Mum") as college porter Wilkin, and Stuart Crossman in an unknown role. "This is a tremendously exciting project," director Nicholas Pegg told BBCi. "We've really pulled out all the stops on this one. We've had a fantastic time in the studio and I hope people will agree that we've done justice to one of the greatest writers Doctor Who was ever blessed with." Says Big Finish producer, Jason Haigh-Ellery, "This is a great opportunity to finally produce Doctor Who's most famous lost script, and a fine tribute to Douglas Adams." Lee Sullivan will produce animation for the new webcast and Gary Russell, on authority from the estate of Douglas Adams, has tailored the script to add some framing information and tie it into the story. BBCi senior producer James Goss stated on the Outpost Gallifrey Forum, "Big Finish have come up with a neat way of fitting the new Shada into continuity without messing around with the original script too much. Without going into detail, there's a short prelude set on Gallifrey, where the Doctor turns up to see Romana, explaining that they've got some unfinished business to attend to... involving a call for help from an old friend that they appear to have been somehow prevented from answering." At right, a photo from BBCi with McGann, Ward and K-9. The recording was taped in early November, and is set for debut on BBCi next spring. (Thanks to BBCi, as well as everyone who wrote in to let us know about it and the report on Biggerstaff's website)

suspend disbelief - don't be so dogmatic

[doubleyou]

Regarding the fact that Paul McGann is playing the Doctor, I believe the expression is "suspend disbelief". He's playing the fourth Doctor, not the eighth.

I think you may be getting just a little too dogmatic about continuity. Don't let continuity keep you from enjoying a good story.

Re:suspend disbelief - don't be so dogmatic

[troff]

Question: are you sure he's playing the Fourth Doctor? I don't remember seeing that in either of the articles. It wouldn't make sense because Paul McGann's is a face and voice now associated with the Eighth Doctor's; the Fourth Doctor had a VERY (unfortunately) well defined appearance, sound and behaviour.

Granted, in the upcoming audios, the role of Iris Wildthyme will be voiced by the woman who used to play the Third Doctor's companion, Jo Grant; but her appearance and voice have changed significantly since those years, so she CAN get away with this (not to mention that her appearance and sound now fit the Wildthyme character rather well). Paul McGann doesn't look or sound like Tom Baker at all.

A good story that fits inside continuity is even better, not only because it has thirty-nine years to draw and rest on.

It's a jarring experience to see it break continuity. You have to suspend disbelief to get into the idea of a 1000-plus year old being with a timeship bigger-in-than-out; having established all that history and setting, "a good story" is not an excuse to then throw out that history and setting.

In other words - good story that it is (was), it would be even BETTER if they actually kept to some kind of continuity.

The other reason I mention this is because I've written published Doctor Who fiction and I had to do my level best to make it fit into continuity. It was more fun to be a part of that great and well-established "Doctor Who" universe; just screwing it all over wasn't fun, smacked of laziness and just didn't fit. Again, just a jarring experience that doesn't really enhance at all.

Re:suspend disbelief - don't be so dogmatic

[doubleyou]

Question: are you sure he's playing the Fourth Doctor? I take that back. I went back and read the article a little more carefully. And yes, he is indeed playing the 8th Doctor. And they're even fudging the script a bit so that he goes back to Gallifrey just to grab Romana. A little lame. As for the rest of the discontinuity, I think that can be reconciled if we just assume that the episode takes place before the events in "Ancestor Cell". I'm guessing it will be continuous in the same way the Charley Pollard arc is (which is iffy). her appearance and sound now fit the Wildthyme character rather well Do you mean the old Iris or the new one? I've written published Doctor Who fiction... What have you written?

Re:suspend disbelief - don't be so dogmatic

[doubleyou]

Ah, crap. I forgot to preview that. I forgot to put in the line-break tags. Oh well...

Re:suspend disbelief - don't be so dogmatic

[troff]

I figure you're right here. Pre-Ancestor Cell is the only way it'll make sense.

I'm still looking to get copies fo the Charley audios to work out what happened here (I understand there's a "she never should've appeared" thread going on).

I don't know details of which yet, but I understand there's a Big Finish audio where Katy Manning will be voicing Iris (I may have missed an Iris book... did she regenerate? You say "the old Iris or the new one"?)

To be honest, I always found Iris to be an INCREDIBLY annoying character. The only time I found her at all enjoyable was when she was the only enjoyable thing in the whole damn book - specifically, "Mad Dogs And Englishmen" (you may think I'm being harsh, I know, it's a matter of opinion. But that book... man...).

Hm. I may have been (telling the complete truth, but was a tad) overly generous when I said I'd written published Who fiction. Apart from the usual fanzine (but at least prize-nominated) stuff, I also co-wrote for "Missing Pieces", the non-profit anthology to benefit Sudden Infant Death Syndrome babies trust. I co-wrote a Third Doctor / Brigadier story, "For Queen And Country".

The idea was that we wanted to give the Brigadier a bit more of the spotlight.
Dylan was responsible for most of the historical and military research. The TARDIS, travelling and Russian parts were mine. We argued about the idea of History being mutable in the Who universe and the winner of the argument is only revealed in about three words in the last paragraph.

The bit in the story where we mention that the Doctor had previously been in Crimea was due to us submitting the story to the Anthology Editors and then the Editors writing back to us, telling us that another submitting author had put a First Doctor story based in the Crimean War, same month, just a couple of dozen miles away; we were quite pleased to be able to work that one in.

Re:suspend disbelief - don't be so dogmatic

[doubleyou]

I may have missed an Iris book... did she regenerate? You say "the old Iris or the new one"?

Yes, she regenerated in "The Scarlet Empress". I enjoyed that book, and the atmosphere it created, but it left me unsatisfied in the end. It seemed like a bit of a pointless romp.

I don't know...

[Amtiskaw]

I'm sure I remember reading a comment from Adams saying that basically, Shada was not an especially good Doctor Who story and wouldn't have been remembered if it weren't for the fact that it wasn't filmed. If you're looking for really good Douglas Adams Doctor Who, get "City of Death", its got everything; mad professors, evil aliens, british detectives and 7 Mona Lisas.

HOW CAN THEY MAKE THIS WITHOUT TOM BAKER?

[emil]

I admit, I'm somewhat attached.

Re:HOW CAN THEY MAKE THIS WITHOUT TOM BAKER?

[Cujo]

Somewhere in my VHS archives I have this unfinished episode (Shada) with Tom Baker both starring and hosting (in a ridiculous pinstripe suit) and filling in the story line for the missing scenes. I can't remember where I found it.

Is Tom Baker still with us?

Re:HOW CAN THEY MAKE THIS WITHOUT TOM BAKER?

[Codifex Maximus]

Yeah, to me Tom Baker *IS* the Doctor. What I really want to know is... when will he get the TARDIS' chameleon circuit fixed? Will K9 be in the show? Is the Brigadier still alive? The Master?

Care for a Jelly Baby?
NO! NO! YOU WILL BE EXTERMINATED! STAND STILL!

Re:HOW CAN THEY MAKE THIS WITHOUT TOM BAKER?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah Tom Baker is still around - he lives in a little hamlet in Kent just a few fields over from me

Re:HOW CAN THEY MAKE THIS WITHOUT TOM BAKER?

[buckeyeguy]

Yes, Tom Baker is still around... and acting, but as we saw him in Dungeons and Dragons a few years ago, he's getting up there in years, and probably not the best fit for The Doctor at this point.

Still, he was always my fave Doctor, too.

Re:HOW CAN THEY MAKE THIS WITHOUT TOM BAKER?

[AndroidCat]

he's getting up there in years

Since when has that ever been a handicap for playing The Doctor?

Re:HOW CAN THEY MAKE THIS WITHOUT TOM BAKER?

[buckeyeguy]

Well, if you take into consideration the ages of the early Doctors, yeah, age isn't necessarily a factor, but as the Doctor regenerated over the years, he seemed to get younger... suddenly getting older again would be kind of a shock.

Pretty sure he's the oldest one still around... the first 3 have all passed on. Any of the other previous Doctors would be ok, as long as it's not Colin Baker... the big mistake in the Dr. line, IMHO.

Re:HOW CAN THEY MAKE THIS WITHOUT TOM BAKER?

[Nermal]

The brigadier (Nicholas Courtney) is still alive, as is Anthony Ainley, who played the Tom Baker era Master (please please please let them not use that wretched Master from the Fox movie). Will they have K9? I guess he's still alive, too. =:) As for the Chamelon Circuit, they fixed it for a while when they were trying to keep the show afloat amid a string of crapass episiodes during the Colin Baker era. But the TARDIS being anything but a blue police callbox just didn't sit well with DW fandom.
</patheticfanboy>

On a personal note, I'm glad they're using Paul McGann. I loved Tom Baker as much as most other people, but lets face it, he's ooooooold. Did you see him in Dungeons and Dragons? If not, don't. the rest of that movie is not worth the effort, but he just couldn't play the Doctor anymore. And I will say right now that as lame as the Fox movie was, Paul McGann's Doctor was fantastic. He really captured the character and I can't wait to see him again.

Re:HOW CAN THEY MAKE THIS WITHOUT TOM BAKER?

[Anonymous Coward]

Tom Baker's official website

Re:HOW CAN THEY MAKE THIS WITHOUT TOM BAKER?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes Tom Baker is alive.

I saw him at Techno Gadgets show (Live 2002) in Earls Court in September of this year..

He was by himself. short white hair. Long cream raincoat.. i think i was the only person that recognised him.

They useda snippet of "Shada" in the 5 doctors episode...

when he's punting a boat through cambridge. i remember he was babbling on about Wordsworth or something..

cheers,
Suresh.

Mary Tamm was much better.

[emil]

The original Romanavoratnalunda had a certain Je ne said quois.

Re:Mary Tamm was much better.

[operagost]

Do you mean, "Je ne sais crois?" Or is this an inside joke I'm missing?

Re:Mary Tamm was much better.

[Anonymous Coward]

je crois => "I believe"

je ne sais quoi => "I don't know what"

Re:Mary Tamm was much better.

[Anonymous Coward]

No kidding! For one thing, she never said anything about being a "time tot", for another, she was tall enough to be worth hanging out with, and for another she was a hell of a lot sexier!

Re:Mary Tamm was much better.

[Anonymous Coward]

I disagree. Tamm's Romana did have her moments, but I think Ward seemed a lot more confident in the role.

Re:Mary Tamm was much better.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's actually spelled Romanadvoratrelundar

The Leisure Hive?

[doubleyou]

Great. Can they re-do "The Leisure Hive" next?

Re:The Leisure Hive?

[adelayde]

was that the episode with Bertie Bassett in it? even if it wasn't, be good to do this and loads of the many, many episodes again. There is just sooooo much material and soooo many good ideas. IMHO I've always though Dr Who a much more inventive and interesting series than Star Trek, maybe not the original Trek, but certainly DS9, Voyager and the latest one (Milkingitager is it called?). It really only suffed from the small budget that the BBC obviously had and eventually from Micahel Grade.
RIP!

Slightly off topic, but a good question...

[crashnbur]

Speaking of Douglas Adams, is there room to speculate about the movie project for The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy? Rumors were flying up until his death about the books being transformed to film, and other movies (like Men In Black) did it first, only not nearly as well, causing Adams to say things like "I should have done it first", only when he said it, it was cleverer and funnier.

Just curious about HHGG.

Re:Slightly off topic, but a good question...

[doubleyou]

Yeah, but Hitchhiker's has a distinctive "English" quality and humour to it, which turns-off a lot of the American audience.

Because of that, I think that any Hitchhiker's movie will be caught in a catch-22: if it's done well, most Americans will not "get it" and only a small niche audience will go see it; if it's defiled in typical Hollywood fashion, then the loyal fans will be disgusted, and the mainstream will be unimpressed, thinking it's just an MIB knockoff.

Depressing, innit?

Re:Slightly off topic, but a good question...

[shplorb]

Like the Mr. Bean movie?
They really wrecked that.

Re:Slightly off topic, but a good question...

[c64cryptoboy]

(As long as we're off topic...) Its uncanny how often slashdot get pulled towards its hacking / Doctor Who / Commodore 64 center-of-gravity. We seem to want to recast everything in terms of high school nostalgia. I suspect this puts the typical poster in his/her 30's.

Re:Slightly off topic, but a good question...

[crashnbur]

Yes, very. I'm all about loyalty to the story itself, and thus to the fans. Americans might not catch the British humor, and it might not do well at the Box Office, but a good production would be satisfying to me!

...the animated series

[doubleyou]

For a while now I've been thinking that Doctor Who would translate really well into an animated series. Big Finish would seem to be the natural choice to produce such an animal, since they've already shown that they can pull off the audio dramas.

Wouldn't that solve a lot of budget problems? No money needs to be spent on sets. Though, I suppose they could go nuts with CGI if they really wanted to spend money.

Re:...the animated series

[Biscit]

I think there was an attempt to make an animated series by the bloke who produced the amazing "Death Comes to Time" for the web.

I don't think it got anywhere.

Re:...the animated series

[Anonymous Coward]

Animated series. Yes.

Doctor Who and "Scrappy Who" ...

Re:I don't know... (And...)

[Malic]

And it ALSO has Lala Ward in a school girl outfit...

Mmmmm... Lala Ward...

And it also has the best quote ever...

Duggan: You know what I don't understand...?
Romana: I expect so.

Yeah, Doug wrote that - no doubt about it.

Douglas Adams Fans - H2G2

[Captain_SpankMunki]

http://www.h2g2.com

Run by the BBC, the Hitch Hikers' Guide To The Universe, Earth Edition.

Liam.
--

Re:Yes! The BBC has done it

[Biscit]

Well sort of: this is the third webcast of it's type, presumably on their Doctor Who sub-site.

Big Finish, the company producing this, have been making a living out of releasing new Doctor Who stories starring Davison, C Baker, McCoy and McGann on audio CDs for 2 or 3 years now.

Tom Baker has been offered scripts but has declined to participate.

this wasn't Adams' only Who script

[doubleyou]

The original poster seemed to imply that this was a big deal because it was written by Douglas Adams. However, Shada is not unique in that sense. Adams also wrote "City of Death" and another Doctor Who script which never made the cut, "Doctor Who and the Krikkitmen" (to be later recycled as the thrid Hitchhiker's book, "Life, the Universe, and Everything").

He was also script-editor for the series for quite a few years.

Re:this wasn't Adams' only Who script

[malf-uk]

IIRC, he also wrote the Pirate Planet episode too

mal

Re:this wasn't Adams' only Who script

[doubleyou]

Oh yeah, thanks. I knew I was forgetting one.

Romana - Jo Grant

[Anonymous Coward]

With that hairdo, Lalla Ward looks more like Katy Manning.

Film of Hitchniker's Guide...

[EnlightenmentFan]

Check out the BBC's movie promo.

Continuity?

[mcleland]

Since when did Dr. Who emphasize strict continuity? What about when the first doctor regenerated into the second?

"Ack, they've changed the main character! What's that going to do to the continuity of the series?!?!?"

Ah well, we have to have something to argue about. Let the religious wars over what is in the Cannon commence...

Now all we need

[hackwrench]

is someone to complain about the lack of continuity introduced by the American movies with the first Doctor, and how the actor playing him looks and sounds nothing like William Hartnell.

Books aren't canon

[Anonymous Coward]

And neither is the Fox movie, as far as I'm concerned. Yes, the half-human thing was appalling... absurd "Star Trek" biology, never mind what it did to the story. There are a LOT of other things we could attack in the movie, but I think we can both agree that it was so bad that it's better to just ignore the whole thing.

I don't understand where you're coming from with Romana as President, in question 3, at all. Though the last time I saw her was in E-space.

Anyway, just because it's Paul McGann playing it in this case, I wouldn't necessarily interpret it as being an 8th Doctor story. We'll see how they handle it. (BTW, I like Paul McGann as the Doctor, and I don't hold him responsible for the atrocity that the movie was.)

Re:I am quite looking forward to this...49-7

[Ans42]

lets remember the answer (42) and not the questions (died at 49)

Romana /= Ramona

[doubleyou]

Her name is Romana, not Ramona.

Apologies for nitpicking on your mis-spelling of her name, but you were doing it consistently.

Not that it matters much, since her full name is Romanadvoratrelundar anyway.

Re:Romana /= Ramona

[Gron-gron]

Actually, I thought it was Fred :)

Douglas Adams

[HippyCraig]

There was another episode that Douglas Adams wrote for the Doctor Who series and was one of my favorite episodes. There was a 6 part mini-series that revolved around the Key to Time, with Tom Baker (also my favorite Doctor Who Actor).

Just call him Hotblack

[bullgod]

He's back working!
Does this mean he's being spending the last year dead for tax reasons?

I may be alone but I have to say it...

[Call Me Black Cloud]

Dr. Who sucks.

Douglas Adams, on the other hand, rocks. Or rocked. What a waste of talent, writing a Dr Who episode. I guess when you only have 3 channels to choose from you'll watch anything. If I had to choose I'd rather see a Douglas Adams "Prisoner" episode. But I don't get to choose, so it's time to move on to the next article.

What exactly does 'industrial action' mean?

[Anonymous Coward]

industrial INaction

Industrial action's even MORE depressing now...

[darylp]

Our firefighters are standing by while children burn.

Re:Yes! The BBC has done it

[Aexia]

Fandom will have to come up with a story about how Ramona and K9 got out of N-space and got back together with the doctor again (with a possible regeneration if a different actress plays Ramona).

Both of them got out of it a long time ago in the New Adventures books. She was President of Gallifrey for a while too.

I can hear it now!

[Superfreaker]

Dooooo weeeeooooo OOOoooooo uuuu llllllllllll
Dooooo weeeeooooo OOOoooooo uuuu llllllllllll

doooooooooooooo OOOOOOOOOOOO weeeeeeeeeeeeee EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii oooooooooooooooooooooo uuuuuuuuuuuuulll.

God that song used to creep me out when I was a kid. And that friggin' dog. And why was was he travelling in a telephone booth!?

I've seen the original of Shada.

[adelayde]

I saw the original of this episode years ago, I don't think many people have. There was a tape of it around (definitely not legal, nor official) of all the finished sequences with captions from the missing bits. It really was a good episode of Dr Who and showed Adams' talent when let loose on good subject matter. I think this is excellent, a great tribute to a great series and a great, and sadly missed, writer.

Favourite episodes of Dr Who: War Games and all the Darlek ones of course :).

Dr Who, Holistic Detective

[milovoo]

Seems odd that they bothered since the first

Dirk Gently Holistic Detective book is pretty

much the same plot.

-milo

I yeah, sure kid

[Anonymous Coward]

If you are trying to claim that any Firefighter has stood by and knowingly alowed a person to come to harm during the past two day strike, then you should provide evidence and contact the BBC. I'm sure they would be very interesting in that story too.

They won't get 40%, but they're worth more than 11%. God damn, I wouldn't walk into a burning building for only £20k a year. Shit, I get paid to sit on my ass behind a desk five days a week and get paid the same sort of money as a Firefighter.

Maybe once we're paying the Firefighters their real worth, we can make a start on our Health Care Proffesionals, Teachers and Police.

Taxes

[Anonymous Coward]

DR. Who and Adams = a great match.
LOL, British ppl have to pay tax for owning a tv. Hey did u know that the British gov banned the CNBC show "The Wallstreet Journal Editorial Board". WHY???? LOL the brits are taking it up the a-- and no one complains.

Continuity twisted...

[troff]

there's plenty of 'time' between the end of the FOX movie (yes, BBC considers that canon) to when the BBC timeline starts in "The 8 Doctors" book

Not really. "The Eight Doctors" starts up with him finishing the book the Seventh Doctor had been halfway through in the movie. The book also calls the movie's events "subjectively recent". Not to mention the whole book begins with "the Master's last trap" (oh, thank you, Terrance Dicks) the Doctor triggered just by being in that room of his own TARDIS.

From what I've seen, the Virgin books are not considered canon at this point, which unfortunately wrecks a lot of the good plot continuation they had

Hey? Erm, how do you figure that?

And I don't think individual authors are necessarily screwing this up.

I was hoping not to name names, but read "Unnatural History"; that's what I was referring to specifically when I said that "oh no, the Doctor mustn't be limited to a single continuity! How narrow-minded to think that!" (that's pretty much a word-for-word from the book itself). Of the few Kate Orman books I've read (Vampire Science, Unnatural History, read the synopsis for Left-Handed Hummingbird), the only one I didn't immediately reel from in disbelief and displeasure was "Set Piece" (just finished that one today). Actually, that one I thought wasn't too bad. The others... [shudder].

FYI: "The Adventuress Of Henrietta Street".

To be honest, I think that these authors doing the Eighth Doctor now really aren't helping. Continuity has been royally screwed worse than ever before. Not to mention that the Eighth Doctor has lost his memory how times now? The Eight Doctors, from The Ancestor Cell right through to even the latest Time Zero? If there WERE a "fabric" of space-time, I think the Eighth Doctor's authors have made the Doctor do more damage to that than any other threat in the Who universe...
... sigh...

[OT] Atomic wedgies...

[troff]

Actually when I DID get picked on in school for liking "Doctor Who", the bullies tried to pick on me one day when we were in swimming class.

Knowing that I had strong leg muscles from ethnic-dancing practice and knowing that the water would hold me up long enough, drawing on the interest in science I'd gained from watching this show, I selected the best spot, kicked the ringleader in the chest and winded him badly.

That was in first year high school, eighteen years ago. For the next four years he actually treated me with respect, we got on well and I never had to verbally or physically defend myself - ever again.

So just because I happen to have a hobby interest that I like and is mentally above you, you sad and anonymously cowardly little child, don't think that means I'm going to let someone like you push me around. And don't think the next person you insult or hurt is going to stand there and take it.

Not in contentunity

[Felinoid]

This isn't going to ever be considered part of the offical contenuity.
That said... Dr Who seldom folows any rules anyway.

Re:Not in contentunity

[troff]

Actually, it will be.
a) "Death Comes To Time" was and
b) it's a BBC production therefore it's about as canon and official as it can be.

Besides that, check out http://www.gallifreyone.org/canon.htm .

"Doctor Who" DOES follow rules, it's just that like any huge human-built system, someone will end up breaking them and some people will follow that break; and through that, something will start contradicting itself. "Doctor Who", Law, Religion,... oh, damn. I wish I hadn't followed that train of thought. :-/

Concerning Continuity and "stuff"

[kenp2002]

Ok first it's a TV show. I watch Dr. Who since I was a kid, but I am also not an obsessive fan. First of all the very fundamental paradox of time travel is you cannot change the past if you are from the same time-space. Why? Because your present is the result of that past. You present has already taken your actions into account (because they have already happened.) I have a few friends that are physicists and they BS about this all day long. The only was that the past can be changed is a CFS (Continum Fracture Scenario) in which the infinite possible outcomes fork infinite universes of outcomes. If Time Travellers can pull themselves out of a continun then they can navigate the infinite outcomes.

With that side based on the CFS ANYTHING is possible (we have infinite outcomes to deal with) thus it is possible that as screwed up as the storyline appears it is perfectly plausable based on CFS (as I call it Chaos Formulated Spaces, sounds better).

That should end the non-sense of people complaining about the inconsistencies. Or you can subscribe to my TST (Time-Speed-Theory) that states that a change in the past must travel through time-space granting that a change in the past will take X amount of time to catch up to the present where X =( (TimeInPresent) - (TimeInPast) )* (Speed of Light)

Therefore an secret agency that monitors timespace can see the subtle changes in time-space and calculate the change, then send a demonic entity back in time to correct the anomoly ensuring that their present is maintained.

BUahahahahahahh (Yes I am tinkering with a book based on the idea about an evil tyrant that is trying to prevent timetravel from altering his present.) Did I mention Muahauhahaahaauhah!

Last Post!

[alpg]

Every Solidarity center had piles and piles of paper ... everyone was
eating paper and a policeman was at the door. Now all you have to do is
bend a disk.
-- A member of the outlawed Polish trade union, Solidarity,
commenting on the benefits of using computers in support
of their movement.

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