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Bobby Fischer FBI Files Released Under FOIA
An anonymous reader writes: "Philidelphia Inquirer has a stroy detailing the results of a FOIA request for chess great Bobby Fischer." Turns out they thought the anti-semitic chess grandmaster(and his mother) was a soviet spy.
I hope they don't release my FBI file about me watching TV and on the computer all day.
Free Instant Site Inclusion
Have they finally confirmed that he's playing on the internet? :)
Just in case anyone was wondering whether the FBI were getting this guy all wrong here's Bobby Fischer's radio call-in on 9/11 applauding the terrorists [mp3] [Newspaper report on Bobby Fischer's 9/11 radio call].
--Giving to trolls for the benefit of us all
> that chinese dude
Who? Are you talking about Wen-ho Li? The guy from LANL? That guy was railroaded by the Justice and Energy depts. They basically ruined the guy because he [allegedly] mishandled information on obselete data that although officially classified, was known by everyone anyway. And the guy was in prison for a year before his case was dropped. That's right. The charges were dismissed. So obviously he's a pretty big spy if his case is thrown out. Or you could be talking about someone else... at least I hope so...
Andy
Yes, you caught us. America is a military dictatorship. You found us out. Our military state is run by those pesky Jews, who go around making up things like the Holocaust, and running Hollywood, and exterminating the Palestinians, and running the FBI and the CIA and all the black ops agencies I can't tell you about because the Zionist Conspiracy told me not to.
You and the nutty, paranoid anti-semites like yourself should grow up and grow a sack. Jews are people like any other people, some are violent and hawkish, some are pacifist doves, some are in between. Many are selfish, many are selfless. Some are brilliant, some are morons, most are just somewhat above average (typical for those from a culture that values learning and intellectual accomplishment).
Why do Jews have a lot of influence in America? Because Jews work hard and achieve success in academia, business and other areas at a higher rate than the rest of the population. Some other ethnic groups have achieved similar sorts of success in America. Do Jews control the US? Give me a break. That's as likely as your implicit claim that all those Palestinians are entirely innocent and are just getting slaughtered like hogs. Granted, lots of innocent blood has been shed on both sides (no, telling me that 4 times as many Palestinians have died doesn't make a fuck bit of a difference to me as in no way makes for a moral argument) in Israel and the occupied territories, but implying that somebody is turning a blind eye to some mysterious atrocities is ridiculous.
they didn't let that "chinese dude" go. they jailed him the harassed him because fucktards like you thought that just because he is of Chinese heritage he must be spying for the Chinease.
Also, the judge in the case, as well as then president clinton, apologised for his treatment.
And you are any better? You seem to be predijuced aginst southerners yourself. I am what you would call a "southern redneck", as I am from Jackson MS, and drive a large truck. I hunt, and fish, and even have a deer's head mounted on my wall. Does that make me a bad person? I wouldn't say so. Does it make me stupid, or slow? I hardly doubt it. What it does mean though, is you should watch your words more cloesly, and realize that when you judge others, you yourself are open for judgement.
--Forest C. Adcock--
Being 'smart' is no precursor to either being a reasonable person, living a good (or happy life) or having the same opinions of other people.
Look how many of the geniuses of the past lived fscked lives. Newton for instance (probably) died a virgin. Literary figures are another area where the greats seem to lead terrible lives.
Does it make me stupid, or slow? I hardly doubt it. Erm, so you have a low self-image or something?
humble thoughts from ekent
Fischer's anti-semitism and his apparent approval of the attack on the World Trade Center might make him an asshole, but it doesn't make him a terrorist, and it certainly doesn't retroactively make him a Soviet spy in the 1970's or vindicate any of the FBI's suspicions.
As explained in the article, the FBI had a long-running investigation of Fischer and his mother back in the 70's and earlier. It's just another illustration that the US govt has been spying on its own citizens for decades, long before there was any sort of terrorist rationalization.
I concur. They are making it seem like a crime to hold a certain attitude towards a certain population, the jewish people.
... even if unsubstantiated. With freedom of speech, people will be able to distinguish truth from falsity. When restrictions are placed and a portion of the population is given special untouchable-from-criticism status, the people are not given this opportunity to guage truth from falsehood and suspicion and corruption of truth will brew even more so.
Case in point. John McCain has more than once voiced his anti-Vietnamese attitude. You don't see the press calling him the Anti-Vietnamese Senater.
Of course if Joe Smoe says anything negative about jewish people, IMMEDIATELY everyone (like a reflex action) labels him an antismetic and it's like he is a pedophile and they discount everything that he says, even the truthful elements.
I find this behavior troubling because: 1. it creates restriction on freedom of speech and thought for the general population. 2. It creates white/non-jewish backlash against minority groups.
Both of these troubling, growing situations can be prevented by BEING FAIR and not trying to make the jewish population untouchable from public comments, even if the comments happen to be negative
Of course, I'm sure I will be labeled anti-semetic after this post by the ignorant and by pro-censors. But, please think about it. I'm advocating freedom of speech, an essential pillar of our democratic society that is being chiseled away at for the past decade or so.
> Newton for instance (probably) died a virgin. /. masses. ;)
What a great idol for the
Millions of people getting burned and treated like animals called a sham or a conspiracy is awful, despicable, and just down right inhumane
Like when turkey denies the 1.5 million armenians that were killed in the armenian holocaust? Nobody seems to flich.
GoatPigSheep, the 3 most important food groups
1. A conventional, formulaic, and oversimplified conception, opinion, or image.
Actually, I don't think that word applies here. It's not a stereotype, because it's not an opinion or an image. It's just a statement of fact. Look at any elite university in the country and you will probably find that Jews represent a greater proportion of the student population than they do of the population at large. Does this mean that "Jews are smarter than other people" or "all Jews are smart" or some other clearly fallacious bullshit? Of course not, that's crazy, as crazy as saying "all Blacks are thieves". Do more Black people, proportionally, commit certain kinds of crimes than White people? Yes - statement of fact, you can back it up by pretty solid statistics.
Prejudice is "an adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts." according to the American Heritage dictionary. I don't believe that observing cultural behavior patterns among certain ethnic groups and their statistically verifiable results amounts to prejudice. Saying that "Jews are dirty cheats" or "Asians are passive little math nerds" or "all Blacks are thieves" are all fundamentally opinion-laden, overly broad statements that are not verifiable (the first or second) or just plain not true (the third). The only opinion-laden part of my statement was the phrase "work hard", and while there are certainly other ways to explain some of the observable consequences, many others can be explained by no other means.
If you want facts and figures and so forth, go to Google, I am sure you can find some. And of course, note that according to the definition of the word, noting positive accomplishments of certain groups is NOT prejudice, and if it consists primarily of facts rather than opinions, it is not a stereotype either.
Bobby Fischer's wild paranoid anti-semitic rants really make him come across as a total asshole.
Some time after he was locked out of the USA by the state department, he would go onto foreign radio shows and say the most outrageous things.
In his own opinion, he did more for the image of the US during the cold war than any other individual. Indeed.
And they fucked his family and him over. Instead of respect he got suspicion and hounding.
So perhaps in his own opinion, he can do more to damage the image of the USA by spouting off. Retracting and degrading everything he did for the US image.
Trying to take back what he gave them.
Pure hate spews out of this guys mouth. Listen to the audio MP3. Unreal.
One of his final gems: "The Jews made up the Holocaust". How nice, and a pure lie. What a horrible thing to say, from any angle, whatever his past was like. This guy is in the same league as the Timothy Mcveighs of the world. NUTS.
Either you mean what you say or not. This has nothing to do with PCness. This guy is insane and filled with rage. We need less of those people around.
Violent talks just lead to violent acts. USA doesn't need someone like him. They've got enough of those to deal with already
Because it shows the scum fuck for what he really is. A hate breeding mongrel.
It's who he is, you don't write about someone and neglect who they are. Do you write about hitler and not mention he hated jews?
No, you most certainly do write about someone and neglect some details, given the topic at hand. It's completely appropriate to neglect the fact that Hitler hated Jews when discussing his economic policies or military decisions in the same way that it's appropriate to neglect the fact that Fischer is an anti-Semite when discussing chess strategies or one of many other topics.
Now, this article is a historical summary and the anti-Semitism is rather pertinent. I probably would have been upset if the authors had left it out but only because that detail pertains to the topic at hand--not because I think Fischer is a "hate-breeding mongrel."
I can probably find a point of disagreement with anybody I know. Does that mean I have to mention that fact every time I write about them?
Disclaimer: I don't agree with Fischer's views on Jews, either. That doesn't mean that I get to slap "ANTI-SEMITE" across anything he's said/done and subsequently ignore it.
" How come Israelis and JEws who call for the murder and ethnic cleansing of palestinians are never called "Anti-arab"or "Anti-muslim"?"
They are
"Then just 30 years later pol pot is commit genocide of an unprecedented scale in combodia but no one gives a good god damn cuase they are just some broke ass asians."
Because we got our asses kicked in that part of the world trying to do them a favor (we entered vietnam at south vietnams request).
Check your history, America isn't the worlds police. We don't go around saving everyone, it's their job to save themselves. We don't have to "give a shit", but if you would like us too then I suggest you give us a reason to "give a shit" by not strapping bombs to your chest and going kamakazi through grocery stores and bus stations.
It's completely appropriate to neglect the fact that Hitler hated Jews when discussing his economic policies...
Given that a huge part of the sudden return to economic prosperity Germany achieved after 1933 was from Hitler's seizures of Jewish property and bank accounts, no, I don't think you can neglect the fact that Hitler hated Jews when discussing his economic policies.
I see your point; it just happens that these two particular things are not independent.
There is actually a lot more to it than that. John McCain takes issue with the VC (VietCong) who were notoriously evil in combat. These were mostly 12-18 year old boys and girls in black pajams who setup traps using their own women and children as bait. They frequently slaughtered entire villages of their own people by purposely putting them in the line of fire so they could get the liberal Jane Fondas of the world to say "LOOK AMERICA IS KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE".
Men like McCain who had to fight them now just how evil they were. Ad to that his stay in the POW camps, the deaths of close friends, etc and you have a recipe for a life times worth of anger hate and general anxiety.
That part of the world is not a good place. No matter what the liberals would like us to believe, the south east asain governments do not respect life. However the vietnamese people as well as cambodians etc are generally good people.
Well, no one wants to hear about what happened in vietnam. It was one of the ugliest wars in history. Its a vast and complex issue that brings up a lot of feelings, good and bad.
Ultimately, both sides were wrong. However there are a lot of people that just wanna beat America down, for a multitude of personal reasons, so America is the bad guy.
No one wants to hear about how South and North Vietnam were at war long before we came into the picture. That we were asked to help because of our minor success in Korea.
I think a true testament of what we are made of as a country is the fact we came together after vietname. Russie fell apart after its war in Afghanistan, literally. America learned a lot of lessons in the 60's and 70's and so far hasn't repeated any of those same mistakes.
Blah, whatever, no matter what we say in a slashdot thread, the world still hates the top dog. Just part of life I suppose.
ECONOMICALLY? How so? We alienate the arab nations, which control half the world's oil supply, in order to support a nation that has no oil whatsoever. We support Israel so much, in fact, that fully 1/3rd of their GDP is in the form of American aid. That's right, essentially one in three Israelis is living off of American handouts. How does this provide the USA with an economic benefit?
No, there are reasons that we support Israel, but money ain't one of them. We support Israel because of the holocaust. After WWII, the Allies decided that because of the horrors the Jewish people had endured (not only at the hands of the Nazis, but throughout their history), Israel would be turned over to them. Because we made that commitment, we back them. The second reason is suicide bombing. The Israelis may commit military actions which are of dubious morality (at best), but they've never sent in suicide bombers, or taken actions with no strategic value whatsoever. The third reason is historical. The arab nations in the middle east attacked Israel repeatedly without provocation. Each defeat has made them more and more hostile. Between terrorist actions like the slaughter of the Israeli Olympic team and wars of agression from the First Arab-Israeli War onward, it's easy to be sympathetic to Israel.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
" Before Bobby Fischer left for Russia in the summer of 1958, an agent posed as a college journalist to interview producers of the TV show I've Got a Secret. Bobby had been a guest on the show and won plane tickets to Russia. (Fischer's "secret?" He was U.S. chess champion. The panel was stumped.) "
I'm stumped too. Stumped how a gameshow in America, in 1958, could give away air tickets to Russia?! What else did you win, bug detector so you could tell when the feds were watching?
Given that a huge part of the sudden return to economic prosperity Germany achieved after 1933 was from Hitler's seizures of Jewish property and bank accounts, no, I don't think you can neglect the fact that Hitler hated Jews
You might want to go and check your history books again. The German economic recovery of the 1930's was brought about by deficit spending and huge public works schemes like the autobahns. Very similar to Roosevelts policies in the US. The difference was that much of the Reich's spending went on military equipment, which doesn't provide for long term growth.
Ultimately, the seized property of Jews was totally insignificant to German economic recovery. In fact, the loss of Jewish capital and professionals was more likely a hindrance to economic recovery.
Chris
How did that dude get so fucked up.
Its called paranoid schitzophrenia [295.30 DSM-IV]. One of Bobby Fischer chess contemporaries, Reuben Fine, was a psychologist, and noted symptomatic behavior when Fischer was a teenager. It also explains a lot of odd behavior Fischer has exhibited throughout his life. Its sad, really.
BTW, southern white trash redneck anti-semitism is not much different than your pro-zionist prejudice.
There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
When attempting to win his country's independence from the authoritarian French colonists, Ho Chi Min wrote a declaration of independence, patterned after the USA's, and appealed to the USA for help. Rebuffed, he decided that maybe the USA's system of government wasn't so great after all and maybe he'd just go communist. At this point, the USA said "Oh no you don't!" and decided it was appropriate to intervene in the region.
Some help.
TO BUY A NEW CAR WOULD MAKE YOU SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
The FBI did have a legitimate national security interest in the Fischers. His mother lived and attended medical school in the Soviet Union. The KGB and GRU recruited agents from foreign students attending schools in the Soviet Union. His father fought against the fascists in the Spanish Civil War. That in itself isn't a problem, but it puts him in a group that was heavily infiltrated and influenced by the Communist Party and Soviet intelligence operations. The FBI didn't have the right to harass the Fischers, but I think they had a legitimate national security interest in investigating their activities to see if they were involved in espionage or other crimes. The CPUSA (Communist Party USA) was heavily involved in Soviet espionage operations.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
A truely great movie, I've watched it about ten times over the last few years. It has a great Bobby Fischer narrative woven into the story of Josh Waitzkin that prompted me to read more about Mr. Fischer. I have gotten the impression that he and his family were hounded enough by the FBI to drive them towards the mindset that they were being investigated for in the first place.
Bobby Fischer seemed to drop his interaction with most people when the FBI would investigate the people he came into contact with. It would be enough to make me very paranoid at a minimum. When I try to emulate his perspective based on his approach to chess, it gets more interesting.
Look at a chess board and see a massive parallel and deep attack. The pieces only represent positions, the real battle is mental between two powers. Victory comes from overpowering and outlasting your opponent. If you loose concentration and perspective, it is easy for your opponent to start using your own pieces against you by limiting your movments with your pieces. That seems to explain his withdrawal from public interaction, he limited the liability of having others around that would be a liability. He would have seen the FBI as an opponent with thousands of pieces that had to be controlled. If most of those that would be considered his opponents could only focus on him, then they became the ones that had limited movment and got in each others way.
It is late and I may be rambling a bit, but for a perspective on the different level of mental capability Bobby Fischer has over the average person,
read this google cached page about Josh Waitzkin and try to relate. Josh has studied Bobby Fischer in great depth and can see many of the flaws in Bobby's game/life. From what I can see from Bobby Fischers perspective, I would have become a paraniod freak from the pressures that he and his family endured.
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
Downloading While Chinese.
While I think the WTC attacks were totally fucked up, and that the people who did it are assholes, and should be killed; Its not as if they weren't provoked. Palestine and Israel have been fighting with each other for a long long time. We support Israel. Israel was created in 1948. We, the USA, and other allied powers / league of nations, put the israelis there, in palestine! Check up on some WW1, WW2 history. This and our continued support for israel is the reason for the WTC attacks, and for the turmoil in the middle east as I understand it. How long was palestine there before we decided to just make part of the country israel? Long long long before the USA was ever created. The first arab-israeli war was in 1948. 1948 they have been fighting for half a century. For some reason no one seems to have a perspective of the ammount of chaos and killing we helped to bring about in their part of the world. Israel and Palestine do the same shit to each other. But we label attacks by Palestine terrorism. BS. Both countries engage in it, we just support one of them.
Now, as for him hating the USA? How about this line of the story: He resurfaced in 1992 to beat Spassky again, in Yugoslavia. That got Fischer indicted: The Justice Department alleged he had violated U.N. sanctions imposed on Yugoslavia. If Fischer reenters the United States, prosecutors say, he faces arrest. Add that up with our FBI thinking his mother was a soviet spy, and I'd say they just wanted to fuck with the guy. We all think we're free until we do something the government doesn't want us to do. If I were him, I'd be pissed at the USA also. The USA is a great place to live, the best in the world. And I love the USA. But that doesn't mean we're always right, or that someone doesn't have a legit reason to hate our country/government. Unfortunately/sadly, in this democracy for the people by the people, the people aren't always the ones who are to blame for the wrong doings, but are usually the ones who pay the price. Its to bad we can't all just get along.
Except J Edger Hoover. They thought HE was straight...
It's Christmas everyday with BitTorrent.
"The second reason is suicide bombing. The Israelis may commit military actions which are of dubious morality (at best), but they've never sent in suicide bombers, or taken actions with no strategic value whatsoever."
Isreal doesn't use suicide bombers. Why send suicide bombers when you can send armed helicopters? On the other hand, if you lack the helicopters and pretty much any other means of modern warfare, suicide bombers are cheap and reliable means of getting at your targets. There is nothing inherantly evil about suicide bombers.
It's probably the bad choice of targets of these suicide bombers, that you want to point out as one of the reasons for supporting Israel. Well, both sides are guilty there: when Israel sends its helicopters against a town that supposedly harbors terrorists, and fires missiles into their homes, innocent civilians die. These aren't precision military bombings as some would suggest. The town is chosen for harboring terrorists but the people wounded and killed in these raids are not picked off carefully. In my opinion that is just as bad as a suicide bombing.
". Between terrorist actions like the slaughter of the Israeli Olympic team and wars of agression from the First Arab-Israeli War onward, it's easy to be sympathetic to Israel."
I'd rather say that it makes it easy to dislike the Arab states and the Palestines; it hasn't changed my dislike for certain Israeli practices. Israel (their current government and a large part of their people) has the same problem that the Palestine terrorists have: they are fanatics; i.e. they are bent on achieving their goals by whatever means necessary.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
It is more a strategic rather than an economic benefit. Having a well armed and dependent ally in the middle east is useful to America.
> We support Israel because of the holocaust.
Partially true, but why not support Armenia too, Rawanda or whatever.
> The arab nations in the middle east attacked Israel repeatedly without provocation.... it's easy to be sympathetic to Israel.
Well, it is if you have a one sided viewpoint. Read Chomsky, I'm not saying he's right, but there are other sides to it http://www.zmag.org
http://rareformnewmedia.com/
The article says his mother is Jewish, and gives hints that his father may be Jewish too.
Dosn't matter if his father was or wasn't. His mother being Jewish makes him Jewish.
And it is easy to make generalizations if one is unknowledgeable about the history of Palestine. I think you should read this in order to understand the roots of the present Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Keep this in mind: In the beginning of the 20th century only one person in 10 living in Palestine is a Jew. Now it is exactly reversed.
Put yourself in the shoes of the Palestinians: you have no american supplied F-16s, no Merkava tanks, no way of waging a Geneva Convention type war. How are you going to fight for your beliefs, your people and your history? Is it a wonder that the only way a desperate people can fight is through suicide bombings?
Please do not immediately label me an anti-semitic. I do not hate Jews, but I do deplore how the Israeli (and specially the Sharon) government's treatment of the Palestinian problem seems to mirror the way Hitler treated the Jewish problem. One has only to read Israeli newspapers to realize that many Israelis themselves are aware of these and actually criticize their own government.
I know many Jews here will agree with me. The problem with Israel is that it is not a nation of Israelis but a Jewish state. For as long as the Israeli government refuses to make itself into a truly representative, truly non-discriminatory nation it will continue to hold the entire world hostage to its ailment.
The leadership of the U.S. has changed 8 times since 1970, when Nixon was in office.
If, in fact, this is his motivation, he's fighting against an administration that's been out of power for a quarter of a century, and whose leadership, even if he could legitimately blame them, is already dead.
You honestly believe that the current administration is totally distinct to those of the past? Christ on a bike, Daddy Bush was head of the CIA, Cheney was Ford's assistant and Chief of Staff. Your current administration is chock-a-block with the same crooks and cronies as Bush Sr's 10 years ago, which was stuffed with Regan-era and earlier muppets. And now, to top it off, here comes Poindexter eager to set up his new Stasi. It's unbelievable.
"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey
"Palestine" has never been a nation, and you know it. Calling it a nation is like calling a random selection of MP3 on a script kiddie's computer a cross-section of popular music. Palestine was a name given to a land reduced to desolation after the fall of the Roman Empire, and there has never been a nation of Palestinians. If you'd bothered to look it up, the West Bank and Jordan were all part of a British mandate called "Trans-Jordan".
Plenty of borders were made up by colonials, by drawing lines on a map. Yet somehow this is only a big issue with Palestine.
Palestinians are ARABS, they have always been ARABS and just because Arabs set up camp in a area and name themselves after it doesn't make it a nation.
But if a group of Europeans set up camp in an area then it suddenly becomes a nation? Sounds rather a racist position.
Any system that allows something as evil as a racist holocaust because of "manifest destiny" is hopelessly flawed and should be eliminated as quickly as possible.
Except none of that was built into our constitution. Our past may be shameful, but it's not like our government explicitly permitted raping and slaughtering the natives in our Constitution. You seem to be defending- or at least apologizing for- the CSA based on legal reasoning, but it was founded based on a largely untenable principle. FYI, importation of slaves was already illegal long before the Civil War (I believe 1809), but hundreds of thousands were brought in illegally anyway.
Fischer is the greatest chess player who ever lived, and several pegs above the likes of Kramnick and Kasparov. The idea that he's a Russian spy is absurd. Fischer hates the Russians. He accused them of conspiring to keep the chess champion a Russian. He said the games between Kramnick and Kasparov were pre-determined. He is certainly not a Russian spy.
The other ridiculous thing that the US gov't has done to Fischer is threatned to arrest him should he ever return to the US, because he played a chess tournament in a nation which was under "sanctions" by the US. Fischer tore up a letter from the US gov't demanding that he not play in that nation. He has the right to play chess where-ever the fuck he wants to. He shouldn't face punishment for carrying out his livelihood in a nation the US "doesn't approve of". He could play fucking Chess in Iraq and make millions for the Iraq government. That's his fucking right.
Yes, Fischer has some obnoxious views, and has said some cruel and hateful things about the Jews, and has said some outrageous things about 9/11. Again, that's his right. He has the right to say whatever the fuck he wants to. Quite frankly, I can understand him for hating the US. He is the only US citizen who has brought honor to the US in the chess arena -- the only American who's ever been anything in chess. And not only was/is he good, he was/is the best. The US government repaid him by threatening to arrest him because he played Chess in a "sanctioned nation". That doesn't mean its right to say that the 9,000 people who died at 9/11 deserved it, but he still has the right to say that.
As for his hatred of the Jews, though I'm not saying its good, he still has the right to hold whatever opinions he wants. Though it would make more sense if he hated Christians, as he was scammed by the "Worldwide Church of God". But from his perspective, he's been wronged by Jews. He's particularly enraged about all of the profiteering that has been going on around his name, while he hasn't received a dime. Movies like "Searching for Bobby Fischer" and biographies of him were made, yet he's received no compensation. In short, other people are making billions of dollars off of his name, and he attributes this mainly to the Jews. That doesn't justify hating all Jews, but its still his right to do so.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen