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Moving Your Kids to Linux?
"My real motivation to do this is to save money and to teach my children that sometimes the best isn't always the most expensive. Also, being the cheap bastard that I am, I'm looking at all the money we've spent on Windows XP, Office and all the games over the years, and I'm wondering if there isn't a way to slowly supplant Linux into the mix and not sacrifice my children's computer experience but at the same time save some money and teach them something new.
My requirements are simple: I would like them to run their CD-ROM based games (which are mostly Director based games from Hasbro), and I would still like them to chat with their friends and also be able to play online Flash and Shockwave based games from Yahoo and Shockwave.
I believe I'm looking at an OpenOffice situation to replace Office, I suppose that would be fine and I think would work out (they aren't required to have perfect Word compatibility, its basically type a paper, and print it). For chat we're probably OK too, because something like GAIM would be fine -- Jabber based things would also be cool.
But my real concern is the CD-ROM games and Windows based games. I can't see my 3 year-old putting a CD-ROM into the drive and expecting it to auto-load and run like it does on XP -- without issues -- even with a perfect installation of WINE, hey, maybe I'm wrong, but is there a way to have it work as good as windows?
I've thought about loading up Mandrake and getting WINE working to see if it'll work out, but I'm not sure that I should waste my time, so I thought I'd ask some readers here if they're run into this situation and if I'm just crazy for thinking that this would be the wise thing to do at the expense of my children's computing experience."
My kids are aged 11, 7 and 3. All of them are computer savvy. They use the computer for basically three things: Games, writing papers and chatting with friends, as well as browsing sites that are frequented by children their age...
The new math?
...is to use both.
Have one PC for the things that they NEED Windows to run, and let them use it only for that. The other should run your free-OS of choice and related software.
As they grow older, teach them the difference, the improvements, and continue curtailing use of the Windows machine until it's just an expensive doorstop.
Very few migrations are successful when done immediatly and cold-turkey. Some are, but they are far and few between---especially when children are involved.
http://www.linuxforkids.org/
Mats
This is reminiscent of the old platonic girl friend problem. You know, when you're friends with a girl you really like and they claim to need to find a guy that's just like you but not you. In this case you want an OS that's just like Windows but not Windows. Based on the analogy I've provided the best I can suggest is that you give up.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
Get your kids into piano lessons.
/. contributer and spends too many hours at a computer keyboard.
There's a direct correlation between music ability and mathematical ability (and good grades in general). Plus, you'll strengthen their fingers if your child ever becomes a
The poster didn't say the kids spend all their free time "on the screen". He seems concerned about them, watches what they do, etc. It doesn't seem to me like he's letting his computer babysit.
Computers are a necessary part of the educational process. Not only are they gaining popularity in the classroom, but they're a fantastic research and learning device. They're more interactive than television, and can be a great secondary source to books (reviews, discussions, etc.) and toys (lego programming languages and the like).
I think it's more likely than not that these kids have toys, games and educational materials beyond the computer. Don't let the fact that you weren't 4 or 7 when you started using the box stop other people from teaching their kids early.
Kids sites tend to use a lot of Flash, from what I've seen. My 3 year old spends a lot of time playing games on the Disney and Noggin sites.
Unfortunately, the Flash player for Linux is still at version 5. Not a huge problem, as most Flash apps are still compatible with 5, but it does mean that you will run into problems until they release an update.
I just received the happy news that my wife is two weeks pregnant. I will be a father for the first time, and I have 8.5 months to prepare for it.
My question is: What distro would you recommend for a new-born? Does anyone here have experience teaching unix administration to infants?
A follow-up question:
I generally spend my time on the command line, but I could see how it might be a difficult concept for a child to grasp in its first few years, especially while its motor controls are still developing. (i.e. no touch-typing yet).
I guess I'd be willing to load down the old box with a gui, but the question is, which one?
I'm thinking KDE 3.0., but is there maybe a more lightweight desktop that could be more intuitive for a young child? Remember, it won't be able to read menu items for a few years, so an intuitive graphical interface is very important.
Any thoughts are welcome.
I might as well file for unemployment now... I still can't figure out how to work that damn thing
...start them on Windows now, so when they're in their teens and start rebelling, they'll move towards linux...
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Not only do I want to move my 2.9 year old daughter onto Linux, but I've told her that immediately after potty training, she is to learn a high level language, or at least SQL. She should also be able to install releases such as Mandrake and Lycoris.
Then in a few years, I fully expect her to be able to handle Java and
By the time she's 13 or 14, she should have assembler under belt. With this knowledge, she can and should be able to write device drivers.
On my side, my goal is to find a job telecommuting, while 'home-schooling' the kid - who's computer science assignments will be doing my work for me so I can pursue the life of leasure I so richly enjoy.
And if you believe all that, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you
--- have you healed your church website?
but he kept chewing up and spitting out the CDs. Didn't work very well.
sulli
RTFJ.
I've noticed a lot of people saying "Well, I put Linux on my mom's computer," and now someone wants to make their kids use Linux?
Your kids might grow up to be great sysadmins if you do that. But if they're aren't computer lovers, your kids will just end up having an adversarial relationship with computers, and another generation of technophobes will be born.
While it's true that kids are flexible, and won't have much trouble figuring out the differences between the Windows or Mac they use at school and the Linux box at home, cutting your kids off from games, homework assignments, etc just because you like Linux so much is a bit of a rash decision. Don't you want the best for them?
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
http://www.macromedia.com/software/flashplayer/spe cial/beta/
It works great!
As for Shockwave, it works great if you install the Windows version with CodeWeavers CrossOver plugin.
I generally spend my time on the command line, but I could see how it might be a difficult concept for a child to grasp in its first few years, especially while its motor controls are still developing. (i.e. no touch-typing yet).
Hey don't worry about it.
It may look like your 1 year old is pounding random sets of keys with her tiny fists, but she's really just typing Emacs key-sequences...
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
Its like with religion or politics, really young kids shouldn't just be indoctrinated in one side or the other just because thats what the parents prefer.
Actually, I disagree. Bring your kids up with what you believe in. When they're young, they'll follow along and soak it up. When they get old enough, they'll start to learn about alternatives and may want to explore them. This is where you as a parent should get out of the way.
- DDT
So long, michael. Don't let the door hit you...
Tell the 11 year old that he's absolutely, expressly forbidden to install Linux on your computer. If you're not fully migrated by the time he's 13, consider searching under his bed for a hidden Linux box...
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
it actually might be a fairly successful and worthwhile task to tackle. consider this:
back in the early 1900s and up to the present, though it's less prevalent today, a lot of children who were in american schools had parents who had immigrated from another country and were incapable of speaking english. they quite successfully learned to speak their parents' language at home, and english at school and with friends.
so here's my point: what's wrong with your children using linux/macos/etc. at home and another at school and other friends' houses? revolutions start small, don't they? just think how awesome it would be if your child were at a friend's house and said 'your computer can't do this? well mine can.' maybe it'd make someone else curious.
give credit where credit's due. kids are incredibly resilient (i'm learning this from my daughter as we speak). the more flexible and open you can keep them, even if it's by them using multiple OSes, the better off they'll be.
I've got my kids running Linux (Red Hat 8) on laptops (ages 12, 12, 14) for both school and home.
OpenOffice works fine for all their school work, and they connect fine to the school's wireless LAN. They can connect to the shared drive in school to save work, thanks to Samba.
However, web sites are a different matter. Linux doesn't do Director so they all were pissed about not being able to do much with Nick.com, Disney.com, CartoonNetwork.com, etc. until I got them all CrossOver Plugin and installed the Shockwave Director plugins.
Fortunately RealPlayer, Xine and MPlayer are good enough for playing all media content. This will be 100% true when Mplayer makes the latest install easier and handle Quicktime Sorensen better.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Let the child decide
..and I've never talked about windows and microsoft with him like we do here on slashdot. Given that, he is able to use both OSes fairly well for his level. Once when I was out i had left my computer on Win2k running and when I came back he typed up a letter for me and drew a picture using Adobe Illustrator..which kinda amazed me b/c I only showed him Illustrator once a long time ago. On the Linux side, he likes the Gnome games as well as Tux Racer and Chromium B.S.U.
I have an 8 yr old bro and although he doesn't use a computer much, I always maintain one in his room for his use. I used to dual boot win98 and linux on his computer like mine (except mine dual boots w2k) so he can choose what he needs for the games he plays. Turns out, he used linux more often than the windows.
Eventually my "support" for his win9x became a nightmare and I just asked him point blank "do you need windows?" and his response was "no, I mostly use Linux".
$cat
The best computer you can give to your kids is one that powers on, boots, and doesn't do much else. Kids are really, really smart.
My baby loves to listen to music and watch the visualizations in iTunes.. it calms him down when he's screaming and puts him to sleep when he's tired. Also all babies like to look at pictures of themselves and other babies... so the iPhoto slide show also works to calm him down.
Seriously, my iMac is the easiest way to put my baby to sleep... making it a wonderful investment!
Of course, he likes the light on the optical mouse and is always reaching for it and trying to chew on it... which is not a good thing.
I think it would be nice to have a simple rugged PDA type computer to use as a baby toy... it could play music with bright colors.. and run simple little games for toddlers.
There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary and those who can't.
Starting them early gives them an advantage. I was editing autoexec.bat when I was 7 and 8 years old, building machines when I was 13. Now I pay for university tuition and books by having programming and hardware jobs. (Debt free student.) Learning early pays.
I suggest letting them continue to use Windows XP. If it keeps crashing, they'll complain. When they ask you, "Dad, why does it crash?", tell them honestly that it's because some of the software doesn't have 100% compatibility with the OS. "What can we do to fix it?", they'll ask.
As others have pointed out, the truthful answer is to revert to Windows 98. So why even mention Linux?
What if you asked if they wanted to try out a different OS with different games? Then, install a copy of RH or Mandrake and all of the free games that come with it. Then, set up KDE/Gnome with the right age-appropriate menu for each kid. In this way, you will be using Linux's flexibility to give your kids a better user experience.
Also, what about investing in a bigger HD and copying the CDs to the drive so that your 3 y/o doesn't have to swap CDs and rely on autoload. You could even consider installing VMWare (or maybe Wine, if it turns out to work) so that your kids can go into Windows when/if they want.
Over time, each of your kids will develop preferences on which OS they like.
One caveat, however: One of the best ways to learn about computers is when they're not quite working 100%. Let your kids learn from this on their own. Sometimes, it may take a few hundred program crashes to motivate a kid to read a few HOWTOs.
Amazing magic tricks
You obviously don't have kids. Kids, especially very young kids, want to do what they see their parents doing. And if dad is a geek...
My kids were using computers at three years old - because they wanted to "play" with the mouse and such. True it was a mac. But that only shows how easy macs are to use.
My other Slashdot ID is much lower.
My two year old learned how to reboot when she was only 14 months. Guess that means she has mastered Windows....
Viv
Gmail invites for ip
"I know the crashes are mainly due to the older games that the kids play which are not totally compatible with XP, but hey, they USED to run just fine under Windows98."
This comment is late in the discussion, and I know it probably won't get modded up because of that, but Windows XP has a great built-in solution to that problem. It's called Compatibility Mode.
If you right-click on the program icon, click properties, and click the Compatibility tab, you can tell Windows XP to run a program under "Windows 95 mode" or "Windows 98 mode." This makes the program think that it's running under an older version of Windows, so it (presumably) won't crash because of the new 2000/XP APIs.
Also, it sounds like you've made little effort to diagnose the crashes. Hey, if you want to learn Linux, and have your kids learn Linux, reading system logs is going to become necessary. Start with the syslog for XP. It's in Control Panel -> Administrative Tools -> Event Viewer. Look for any events in the System log around the time your computer was crashing.
I had a friend who was having major problems with XP. XP really doesn't crash that much on a good system. However, he was getting several BSODs a day. I asked him to look in his System log. Guess what it said?
"The driver has detected that device \Device\Harddisk0\DR0 has predicted that it will fail. Immediately back up your data and replace your hard disk drive. A failure may be imminent."
Um. Whoops.
System logs and Compatbility mode are your friends! I'm not trying to discourage you from running Linux, which I think you should at least check out, but you need to fix the problems you have with XP before you move to Linux. Don't go to Linux because "XP crashes" (it shouldn't crash unless you have a problem, which might show up in Linux as well) -- go with Linux because you like it better or it does what you need. In the meantime, troubleshot your XP box and try out compatibility mode -- they will make you a much happier camper.
Simpli - Your source for San Jose dedicated servers and colocation!
I am 61 and I've been hammering the keyboard since grad school in 1968 and have been programming professionally since 1980. I have never had problems with my wrists or fingers, except that I type faster than I ever have, and sometimes my mind thinks one thing and my fingers type (accurately) another, usually because I think, while I type, in terms of words and phrases, not letters.
About 10-12 years ago I had the symptoms of a heart attack while setting at the keyboard: numbing jaw and left arm, pain in the chest, and a clammy feeling with mild persperation. Alarmed I rushed to the doctor, who put me on a treadmill and gave my heart a clean bill of health. His next question was "do you spend a lot of time using a computer keyboard?" "Yes, why?" "Adjust the height of your chair & keyboard so you are not using your shoulder muscles to keep your arms elevated." Problem solved.
Running with Linux for over 20 years!
Young kids don't understand the value of a dollar nor the importance of freedom and until they do it's silly to force it on them.
Young kids understand what they are given the opportunity to learn. My 2-year-old knows what money is, and she knows that we have to buy things before we can take them out of the store. She knows where to put the item on the checkers counter, and at which point she will be able to handle the item again. That these things are bought with money shouldn't be difficult for her to understand, and if she hasn't figured it out already it's only because I prefer to be cashless.
Likewise, any kid that has been grounded or put in time-out knows the value of freedom. Relating it to software may not be a simple thing, but they already understand the basic concepts.
The whole "kid friendly software" thing is a straw-man. How many of us had kid friendly software when we were kids? Even the games I loved and played all the time would be considered kid hostile by todays standards, and yet I, a kid, had no problem using them.
Retraining is an adult issue, not a kid issue. Kids adapt quickly and easily, they have to; the bulk of their first 20 years is largely training and retraining.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.