Slashdot Mirror
Japan Takes A Look At Open Source Software
irish_spic writes " Accorting to this AP story (in yahoo news), the public management ministry is setting up a panel of scholars and computer experts, including Microsoft officials in order to study the use of Open Source software in the government. The article cites concerns about costs and security as the reason for the study. Me wonders if they are serious or just trying to get discounts from MS."
And why would anyone being payed by Microsoft want to support open sourced software? especially when they'd get so much money otherwise?
//TODO: signature
The ultimate closed source society ponders adopting open source technology..
Me wonders if they are serious or just trying to get discounts from MS.
Does it really matter? The end result is more press, more mindshare and for them to come right out and say that they are concerned about security is just... excellent. Soon the rest of the worlds governments will all be running Linux and the US will become a technological backwater. I guess if I want to stay employed here, I should start working on that law degree.
Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power.
Does anyone else think Microsoft Employees would be bias? I think the panel should only include people who are not bias and experts in the field of open source and security. This definitely rules out Microsoft.
Anyone who has read that cursed SP3 EULA, and is concerned with MS's continually increasing use of force over their User Base (read: DRM, activation, etc) can't be too surprised by this. Yes, MS products are expensive and for 15yrs+ have become a constantly increasing % of an overall system cost. Big surprise. It's no wonder that slowly, country after country is starting to either re-evaluate their stance, or altogether shift away from MS products.
pi=sigma{n:0-infinity}[(1/16)^n][(4/(8n+1))-(2/(8n +4))-(1/ (8n+5))-(1/(8n+6))]
Finally, someone doing it right.
/rant off.
For years companies have been pitting competitor against competitor until in the end, the customer gets the right bang for the right buck.
Too many times I see Slashdot going on about how evil Microsoft and how great open source is, now thanks to Japan, we have a Showcase for PROOF POSITIVE what the world at large wants to know.
Microsoft or Open Source?
You don't think this is a testbed for something better?
Committee Meeting, Day 1 9:00am
MS: OpenSource Bad
OS: Microsoft Bad
Japan: Why?
MS&OS: Shit good question.
Justification is the key, and when spending money the way the Government does, getting 3, 4, 10 different companies via'ing for the business all leads to better justification.
OS or MS: We Won the Bid/Implementation because Japan wanted this this and this, we proved we had it, they didn't.
You get the picture
Yo Grark
-Canadian Bred with American Buttering
Canadian Bred with American Buttering
As opposed to the open source advocates being biased? On one hand I agree with you, but on the other I think to myself that if open source feels threatened by or can't compete with Microsoft when playing on a level field with equal opportunities for representation, then I think there's more to worry about here than just Microsoft being present.
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
is it just me, or is this one of those really, really american things to say? just that when something goes wrong, it's not "What went wrong and how can we fix it so it doesnt happen again" but "It went wrong, sue the fuckers!" (Insert rant about responisbility, parents, and Columbine here). Why is it that people cant possibly say, "oh, I fucked up, because i didnt read the freely accessible instructions, but instead have to blame someone else? just my $0.02.....
"Good night, good work, sleep well, I'll most likely kill you in the morning." - Dread Pirate Roberts
iirc there's far more japanese developers for the BSDs, so it probably stands to reason their colleages and friends probably know about them more. Very important for things that (at least until somewhat recently) depend on word of mouth.
It seems that a lot of people are wondering why MS is on this evaluation board. I am by no means a fan of Microsoft, but has the very name come to immediately spawn that much distrust in anyone who even hears them out?
The reason MS is on the board is simple. As it says in the article, Japan doesn't want to base their (potential) migration on hearsay. Simply put, they want to hear both sides of the story. I know a lot of us have heard the MS side of the story and dismissed it as garbage, but not everyone has.
Why do so many of us critisize somebody for trying to objectively attack a subject like this?
I wish there was some there was some way that I could be outside playing basketball, in the rain, and not get wet.
To answer and continue your analogy: Yes, we give the enemy the plans to the castle, but we also give a whole shitload of castle designers and defense experts the plans, and they go over them with a fine-tooth comb and make sure our castle is well designed. While this is more true in the BSD world than the linux world, the same applies top both. Programmers can't build trojans into major software because anyone looking at the source, who has the right experience, will see it and it will be removed. This is the basis on which OS works.
Also note how quickly trojans slipped into major OS software are discovered, usually very quickly (matter of hours?) of the trojaned software being posted. Specifically, compare that to the (lack of [days, weeks, never]) speed with which M$ updates major security holes in thier products.
And, no, I should not have used the goddamn Preview mode first.
Don't you know that as long as m$ has world domination the US has free spy OSes on other governments desktops? Their is no way the US can slip spy code into OSS because anybody would see it.
You need to look at the bigger picture. withough m$ the US could loose its biggest spy edge.
This isn't directed at anyone specifically... just a thought that crossed my mind.
I'm curious why Open Source automagically means "Linux"? Why aren't they looking at FreeBSD? If security and "open" code is their main objective, it's most definately a better value proposition, as it is truly "free". It runs KDE and OpenOffice just as well as Gnu/Linux does, and is more reliable as a server.
This, "Me love you long time!", I believe is from the full metal jacket movie. It was a quote from a Vietnamese prostitute. So maybe making fun of the Japanese would be better in other ways. I have a sense of humor too, but me love you long time is so tired now. Don't you think? Also, my dry sense of humor does not carry well in plain text where intonation plays key :(
photoplankton
Read your Microsoft EULA lately? Whom do you sue when Windows goes wrong?
Would you rather they simply post an "Ask Slashdot?". Would you want a group considering adopting DRM technologies to only hear speakers advocating DRM, or would you want anti-DRM speakers to be heard as well?
When you study things, you find pros and cons. Is there any better way to see two sides of a story than invite both advocates and opponents of a given issue? If Open Source is indeed superior, it will be shown through discussions from both sides. If the presence of MS representatives is sufficient to show disuade Japan from adopting Open Source, then there are obviously faults that need to be fixed.
You don't study technology by gathering together a bunch of advocates: you study technology by pitting advocates against opponents.
Mooniacs for iOS and Android
Japan lags behind Germany, the United States, China and other nations looking into or using open-source software such as Linux, which can be used and modified for free.
I've heard about how Germany and China have switched/are switching to alternative operating systems, but since when was the United States using open-source software? The last i checked, even the Navy's fricking BATTLESHIPS ran on Windows 2000.
Am i behind the times, or are these guys on crack?
I'd say that this is much better than MS being given an opportunity to respond to the report directly to the politicians and in the absense of of those same OS-knowledgeable experts.
OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.
True, there has to be someone to play devil's advocate to make any kind of research like this worthwhile. However, I'm sure there are plenty of other proponents for closed source that would be a much better choices than MS.
We've all seen how the hive mind thinks (ie FUD), which is why I made the sarcastic remark in the first place. I'd expect that whoever is sent to this conference as a "diplomat" will only be there to push the MS agenda, rather than objectively participate in a meaningful discussion.
If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten. -George Carlin
Interesting.. I would bet they are playing off of the lower/repressed impulse to ignore/break the law in Japan. I once heard that in Japan, criminals expect to get caught.
Regarding Free Software in Japan.. At the Japanese bookstores in San Fran and San Jose (Kinokuniya), there are translations of the O'Rielly books available. Plenty of stuff on Linux and Unix as otherwise as well. The material is available. Perhaps not the mindshare.
I wonder what slashdot.jp has to say about all this.
Using your sig line to advertise for friends is lame.
I can't believe how many posts I've seen that go along the lines of:
Micro$oft on the PANEL? ROFLMAO. It's not Objective! They'll never pick OSS! Who puts Micro$oft on a panel about OSS?!?!
Meanwhile, all the posts poiting out how dumb this is havent risen above a 3.
Newsflash zealots, to be "objective" you have to have viewpoints from ALL the sides, not just the one you want to win. The Japanese are doing the perfectly correct, and intelligent thing by including Microsoft on the panel.
Why not fork?
"when does handing the enemy a blueprint of the fortress make guarding the castle easier?"
It never made it much easier. Further, there's a lot more knowledgable coders out there than there were commanders with any military knowledge back then. Mostly, it was peasants fighting - the medieval equivalent of today's weekend warriors. Except with less beer.
"With Open Source, I'm concerned that not only are hackers being issued a blueprint for an attack, but that they can also build flaws into the system before it is even implemented!"
It's not that hard to get a job at a proprietary company. I'm surprised no one's tried this vector of attack against Microsoft. Then again, maybe all those bugs they seem to have..
"Witness the problems caused when the latest flaw is discovered in BIND or ftpd, or when a trojan is actually placed in the software people use to protect their system (tcpdump)!"
Prove that all the bugs in Microsoft's code are accidental. I dare you.
"Maybe the Japanese are just trying to wrangle a better price out of Microsoft, but I think it's possible they don't want to be left unguarded a couple of months whence after picking the cheaper solution."
What are you referring to here, the fact that they've got MS reps praising the greater glory of Windows? It's simply likely that the Japanese aren't as stupid as most Slashdotters seem to be. They want both sides of the story. Obviously, Side A thinks it's better than Side B, and vice versa. That's why you listen to both sides - and then form your own opinion.
"Open Source is a bargain that offers far more than what you pay for; however, its track record with security is spotty, and who do you sue when things go wrong?"
Spotty, compared to what? If you wish to compare the whole of Open Source, compare it to *all* proprietary software, not just Microsoft. Otherwise, the kernel, the GNU dev tools and Open Office don't seem that bad when stacked up against Windows, Visual Studio and MS Office.
As for suing? No one who sues Microsoft comes back in business.
I was thinking that for non-US governments TCO is not as much as an argument as MS would have them believe. If using linux or any other open source solution requires staff to be paid more, then those staff will come from the same country. Therefore this will keep that money in the local economy rather than pouring it into MS coffers. I you were a foreign government would you rather give money to a) your citizens or b) foreign megacorp ?