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Cellular and Computing Industries Finally Collide

magarity writes "For years now cell phones have become increasing complex as computers become ever smaller. The two industries now directly collide. Of special interest is the change in mission statement by Microsoft from 'a computer on every desk and in every home' to 'empowering people through great software, any time, any place and on any device.' With mobile phone saturation in the industrialized world from +80% (Italy) to 45% (USA), this is the next battleground for information technology dominance. Both industries have giant sized players; the shakeouts, as well as implications for consumers, will be huge."

120 of 293 comments (clear)

  1. Europeans will have the edge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "With mobile phone saturation in the industrialized world from +80% (Italy) to 45% (USA),"

    Am I the only one who thinks this indicates that EU countries will be the major players in the future, with MS going by the wayside?

    1. Re:Europeans will have the edge by localekko · · Score: 2, Informative

      100% - 45% = 55%, not 65%.

    2. Re:Europeans will have the edge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      err...so northern Finland is a highly populated area? I go there quite a lot, and believe me, it's pretty quiet.
      Market saturation is done on 'per capita' not 'per square km'...

    3. Re:Europeans will have the edge by msgmonkey · · Score: 2, Informative

      That 80% is saturation, not coverage. They are not the same thing since most people in industrialized countries live in concentrated areas.

  2. great software... by nogoodmonkey · · Score: 3, Funny

    is part of microsofts mission statement? hmm, i guess "great" is a relative term.

    1. Re:great software... by capt.Hij · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I know I shouldn't make a response to a joke, but... I find it very interesting that the Microsoft mission is becoming incredibly diffuse. They went from OS to applications over a very long time. In a relatively small amount of time they have added peripherils, hotmail, pocket PCs, the XBox, and now phones. Now their mission statement is reduced to "software for stuff."

      This sort of diversification may be good for the company, but when they loose focus on their core it becomes very difficult to maintain the kinds of market share that they are used to. Of course, these other things rely on their dominance on the desktop but at some point something has to give.

  3. New mission statement by tomhudson · · Score: 4, Funny
    'empowering people through great software, any time, any place and on any device </quote>

    I guess this means they'll stop selling Windows.

    1. Re:New mission statement by tomhudson · · Score: 2
      How does not liking Micro$oft make me a troll? Oh, I get it! AC troll post!

      I guess today it's muy turn to feed the trolls. Sigh :-(

    2. Re:New mission statement by tomhudson · · Score: 2
      Since when is saying that Microsoft is shit sensational on /.?

      <recursion mode> Now, if it were to become sensational, that would be sensational! </recursion mode> :-)

    3. Re:New mission statement by mstyne · · Score: 3, Funny

      Hahaha, see, I made fun of Microsoft! And I used a $ instead of an "S". It's because Microsoft likes money! Now I'm just gonna sit back and wait for the Karma train to roll on in!

      --
      mstyne: real name, no gimmicks
  4. I can't wait to see... by craenor · · Score: 3, Funny

    How the porn industry will exploit these changes. Whole new meaning to "phone sex".

    1. Re:I can't wait to see... by scottme · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually the pr0n industry has been a major driver of much technological innovation -- 8mm movies, VCR, the Internet. I'd be surprised if they don't turn out to be play a similar role in future.

    2. Re:I can't wait to see... by Mac+Degger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Case in point: phone sex lines. And the first service I could get on a WAP enabled phone? You guessed it: downloading dot-matrix style pixelated naked ladies. It's not cash that makes the world go round...it's pussy.

      --
      -- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
  5. Any device? by charleschuck · · Score: 4, Funny
    empowering people through great software, any time, any place and on any device.

    But I thought only NetBSD would run on my toaster...

    -Charles
  6. shitty screens by muyuubyou · · Score: 3, Informative

    Now if they only produced better screens we could get some work done. The only working thing you can consider "computing" and "cellular" is the Treo.

    That WAP is shit. I can tell you as I have some experience (Nokia, Siemens, Sony, Ericsson, Alcatel, everyone plays his own game, with large differences in the ways things are shown). We have to go directly for web or for Java. I've tested some Nokias and Alcatels. For instance, Alcatel 525 WAP browser, in forms, it doesn't show you the next input till you've filled it!!

  7. looking at cellular use objectively by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What gets lost in this discussion is why cellphone usage so much greater (in terms of percentage) in Europe and Japan is a comparison of the alternatives. How many European and Pacific Rim countries have unmeetered local phone service? That is, talk all you want next door or across town for a very low flat monthly fee?

  8. success and failure? Why by briancnorton · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "By putting new technologies into consumers' hands in an easy-to-use form, the new handsets seem to be succeeding where the PC has failed" Or perhaps it's the fact that the handsets are free or REALLY cheap, and the pocket PCs are REALLY expensive

    --

    People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.

  9. Re:well duh by nogoodmonkey · · Score: 3, Informative

    Not sure if you are trying to be funny, but Italy is roughly 301,000 sq km, and New Jersey is rougly 19,215 sq km.

  10. Now they collide? by lseltzer · · Score: 2, Troll

    Where was the article about collision when Sun entered this market with Java? I guess this is bad now because it's Microsoft offering something new, and everyone who buys their products was forced to because it's a monopoly. Sheesh...

    1. Re:Now they collide? by pVoid · · Score: 2
      Ok, I know /.ers love to reinforce the fact that Moft is a monopoly...

      But moft is entering a market it wasn't in before. What monopoly are they leveraging?

  11. Another article in the same issue of economist by HashDefine · · Score: 3, Informative
  12. whats a cell phone good for? by greechneb · · Score: 4, Funny

    Who needs one when you just stay home and read slashdot?

    1. Re:whats a cell phone good for? by cyt0plas · · Score: 2, Funny

      ...But with a web-enabled cell-phone, you can chat, drive, drink a soda, smoke, and read slashdot all at once.

      --
      Contact Me (got tired of viruses emailing me).
    2. Re:whats a cell phone good for? by Mac+Degger · · Score: 2

      Screw that...I can do all that with a labtop!

      --
      -- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
  13. cell phone companies have advantage by pbranes · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I think cell phone manufacturers have a distinct advantage in this area because they have been working for years at making a product that is both user friendly, extremely small, and runs in real-time with no crashes.

    As phones become more intelligent, it only seems natural that phone manufacturers would have an easier time than microsoft because microsoft has to scale down its product, clean out bugs, adapt the software to be real-time --- all while getting new teams organized that have the ability to do this.

    Cell phone companies already have a large number of experienced exployees that have been meeting th ese necessary goals for years.

    1. Re:cell phone companies have advantage by redfiche · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I thought Palm had the advantage in the handheld market, but it looks to me like PocketPC is winning that battle now. M$ will be very difficult to defeat in any market they enter.

      --

      Brevity is the soul of wit

      -- Polonius

    2. Re:cell phone companies have advantage by pVoid · · Score: 2
      I think cell phone manufacturers have a distinct advantage in this area because they have been working for years at making a product that is both user friendly, extremely small, and runs in real-time with no crashes.

      Believe it or not, my sanyo would crash (freeze) quite often when I was using the crippled-ass web browser it had in it...

      I wouldn't bet on cell phone companies having that big of an advantage: they are the ones going towards more complex OSs on phones, where as software companies are trying to 'dumb' down if anything software they already have some know-how in...

    3. Re:cell phone companies have advantage by interiot · · Score: 5, Insightful
      • they have been working for years at making a product that is both user friendly, extremely small, and runs in real-time with no crashes.

      To some extent, the stability has been somewhat related to the fact that past phones didn't allow 3rd party apps on the phone without being closely inspected and signed. Now that there are open development environments (eg. WindowsCE, Symbian), cell phone stability could drop to WinCE/PalmOS levels.

      And to be fair, cell phones aren't 100% stable... dropped calls are sometimes the software's fault, it's not always obvious that this is the case because it's easy to assume it's due to radio interference or cell tower issues.

    4. Re:cell phone companies have advantage by gorilla · · Score: 2
      But Symbian have the lead in the smart cellphone market, with all the major manufacturers signed up.

      Cellphones are incredibly price sensitive, and a PocketPC license isn't cheap. While Palm is improving, it misses useful features like Java support.

    5. Re:cell phone companies have advantage by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 2

      And to be fair, cell phones aren't 100% stable... dropped calls are sometimes the software's fault, it's not always obvious that this is the case because it's easy to assume it's due to radio interference or cell tower issues.

      Amen. There are plenty of cell phones out there with really crappy software. An open cell platform and a linux-quality OS would make me wet my pants with joy. The problem, imho, is that cell phone companies treat your cell phone as if it's their property. Drives me nuts.

      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
    6. Re:cell phone companies have advantage by RzUpAnmsCwrds · · Score: 2

      "scale down its product, clean out bugs, adapt the software to be real-time"

      Windows CE is already scaled down. It already has had the bugs cleaned out (they are on the fourth version now). And, as of CE 3.0, it is a real-time OS.

    7. Re:cell phone companies have advantage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Also, remember that the safety aspect is very important regarding cell phones, as a single cell phone could take out an entire cell. I believe that is part of what has delayed MS's entry into this market. It is debatable if they have (had) the capabilities of developing safe small OSes.

    8. Re:cell phone companies have advantage by interiot · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Mod this up. I was going to mention this as well, I just don't know the extent to which recent radio protocols (eg. 2.5G, 3G) have taken this into account. From what I've heard, this is true of all 2G protocols (CDMA/TDMA/GSM/that chinese one), that a cell phone virus could jam up the networks quite a bit if they could have unprotected access to the hardware. Also, isn't this true to some extent for 802.11 devices as well though? (well, only 300' diameters could be jammed, but a similar idea anyway)

    9. Re:cell phone companies have advantage by Mac+Degger · · Score: 2

      Yeah...it's a shame though, as Palm could have 'won' quite a bit of market penetration if they had gotten their hardware asses into gear. But instead, they STILL don't have a PalmOS/mobile combination out. And Treo just doesn't cut it...screw the flap/keyboard...I just want my IIIc with a mobile phone inside (ok, actually I want a clie with a phone inside, but I'm not that rich yet :) )

      --
      -- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
    10. Re:cell phone companies have advantage by interiot · · Score: 2
      IMHO, symbian is more like Handspring using PalmOS so that people will buy handsprings because it does/will have a wide variety of apps available for it.

      From what I know of existing phone OS's, the APIs suck a lot and wouldn't gain a lot of 3rd party support in their current state. (as well as the aforementioned security thing)

    11. Re:cell phone companies have advantage by Mac+Degger · · Score: 2

      But that's just my point! I don't want or need a full sized keypad! I mean, why not just use the screen? That's what it's there for, and any other (IMO unneccessary) buttons just make the whole device larger!

      I must admit, Kyocera has made it better than most, but all I want is a regular Palmpilot III form factor (or V, or tungsten...you get the picture, I think), no extra buttons, speaker/mic in the back (otherwise my cheeck'll rub against the screen...not a good idea with my stubble). No extra phone keypad...just do that in software, onscreen. Add a place to chuck my simcard, and I'm a happy man; I don't need a complex Industrial Design case (which is bigger than it should be because of all teh added keypads)....

      --
      -- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
  14. 80% italy - why? by mo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I just returned from Italy and I can attest to the 80% statistic. What totally blew me away was the fact that even very old people all had cell phones. Perhaps somebody can explain what factors cause people in one of the oldest western countries around to conquer the fear of new technology so well.

    1. Re:80% italy - why? by MartinB · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Italy has a pretty low saturation of mobile phones compared to (say) Finland, where the market penetration is over 100% of adults (ie there are more adults with more than 1 mobile phone than there are with none).

      And you wonder why the 2 globally dominant mobile phone operators in both consumer sales and network kit (Nokia and Ericsson) are Finnish...

      --

      The only thing you can accurately describe as "Scotch" is a sticky tape made by 3M. And it's

    2. Re:80% italy - why? by juuri · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Probably because like most of Europe it is far cheaper to put up cell towers than to have wires run everywhere. Americans tend to forget how subsidized our wired telephone system was.

      A quote:

      RIGHT NOISES. That's because Europe's fourth-largest economy suffers from an outdated, expensive telecommunications infrastructure...

      From: http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_09/b3670213.ht m

      --
      --- I do not moderate.
    3. Re:80% italy - why? by Remik · · Score: 2

      Regarding old people w/ cell phones...

      Your answers are here and here.

    4. Re:80% italy - why? by muyuubyou · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've been there and in Spain, France and Germany too. They conquered the fear of new tech, that's true, kudos for that; but on the other hand the fact that telephone is really expensive there helps too.

      'Nuff said about Japan.

    5. Re:80% italy - why? by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 2
      Perhaps somebody can explain what factors cause people in one of the oldest western countries around to conquer the fear of new technology so well.

      Probably it's the same reason that smart cards are much more popular in Europe than in the U.S.: because their POTS phone system sucked.

      In the U.S., it was cheap, easy and reliable to authenticate each credit card purchase with a phone call to the Visa/Mastercard mother ship. Since that method wasn't as practical in Europe, they went with self-authenticating smart credit cards. Result: they end up looking more "high tech".

    6. Re:80% italy - why? by at_18 · · Score: 2

      What's the quality of the landlines in Italy?

      Quality of the land lines is excellent.

      The large market share of cell phones was initially due to the fact that a cell phone was seen as a status symbol.
      But when all your friends have cell phones, you must have one too for purely practical reasons.

    7. Re:80% italy - why? by Dionysus · · Score: 2

      In the U.S., it was cheap, easy and reliable to authenticate each credit card purchase with a phone call to the Visa/Mastercard mother ship. Since that method wasn't as practical in Europe

      What are you talking about? The POTS in Europe is great. I think the whole creditcard issue is more because Europeans don't like being in debt. At least in Norway, most people seem to only want to spend what that have (unlike Americans that like to spend and worry about it later).

      --
      Je ne parle pas francais.
    8. Re:80% italy - why? by Scarblac · · Score: 2

      Probably because like most of Europe it is far cheaper to put up cell towers than to have wires run everywhere.

      Note that Europe is much more densely populated than the US, there are actually land lines absolutely everywhere, and the wired telephone was a state monopoly. Your argument just vanished.

      I don't know about 'cell towers' so much. I think most of them are on churches, that sort of thing. Perhaps tall buildings are denser in Europe as well (purely rural areas? they hardly exist anymore in the Netherlands, and where they are, there are churches).

      The cell phone thing is driven by kids. They want their own phones, and use SMS like they're insane. When your phone is half a year old you're uncool. Adults just thought they were pretty cheap and very useful. Especially when abroad, it's easier to have a cell phone that just switches to some local network than to have a public phone card of whatever country you're presently in.

      Plus aggressive marketing from many different competitors, who really compete directly, and who had to give huge discounts on the phones to get subscribers. It's not often that a media/communication market is open like this (choice between five or six equal competitors).

      I've heard that in America, it's not so easy to switch to a new phone. In Europe, you just remove the simcard from the old phone to the new one and you're done, everything is ported over.

      --
      I believe posters are recognized by their sig. So I made one.
    9. Re:80% italy - why? by StuffYourReligion · · Score: 2

      When I lived in Italy ('98-'99), it cost more for me to call a cell phone from my land-line than it did to call another land-line. Most of my friends dropped their land-lines altogether, which was really annoying, because to call a cell phone from a regular line (during the day) cost nearly as much as calling the USA.

      I believe cell-cell rates were much cheaper, which would certainly be one encouragement to get a telefonino once a large number of people already had them (and yes, I think the status symbol angle was very real as well). I never did get one until I moved back to the US.

      In any case, one thing that is very different between Italy and the US is (when it comes to cell phones) is that the caller pays the charges, not the receiver. I may be wrong here, the receiver may pay some airtime charges, but I don't think so.

      I remember kids in caffés playing this dumb game where they would ring each other (from across the table!)... the caller would try to hang up before the other one picked up the phone. If the receiver picked up the phone first, the caller would have to pay for the call.

      One GOOD thing about the cell phone system in Italy (and other countries, I'm sure) is that cell phone systems get their own area codes so there is no need to cut up existing area codes because they run out of numbers, as has happened in the US, resulting in lots of hassle and waste, as companies would have to throw away tons of stationery with the old area code, etc.

      --
      I have no special gift, I am only passionately curious. --Albert Einstein
    10. Re:80% italy - why? by evilviper · · Score: 2
      Perhaps somebody can explain what factors cause people in one of the oldest western countries around to conquer the fear of new technology so well.

      I call it "economic sanity". Like it or not, 99% of people don't need ceel phones.

      New technology != Nessecary != Successful Society

      I guess since Canada has such a lead in Zamboni technology, they must be the top nation. Go Canada!

      Getting interupted every 15 minutes by a call WHEREVER YOU GO is not an advancement IMHO.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    11. Re:80% italy - why? by MartinB · · Score: 2

      Infrastructure's a major business, and one which Nokia and Ericsson have a major degree of control over.

      In 2G, market share by value of contracts (with some selected competitors for comparison) (Source: Merrill Lynch 4th Jan 2001):

      GSM:
      Nokia+Ericsson: 59%
      Lucent: 4%
      Motorola: 18%
      Nortel: 12%

      TDMA:
      Nokia+Ericsson: 61%
      Lucent: 12%
      Motorola: 0%
      Nortel: 18%

      In 3G (remember this is infrastructure), again with selected competitors as of April 2002 (source)
      Nokia+Ericsson: 64%
      Lucent: 3%
      Siemens/NEC: 19%
      Nortel: 8%
      Alcatel: 4%
      Motorola: 1%

      Also remember that Verizon are owned by Vodaphone who will want to use their existing European-based suppliers for GSM migration, and US carriers such as Cingular are already giving their GSM migration work to European firms like Nokia.

      --

      The only thing you can accurately describe as "Scotch" is a sticky tape made by 3M. And it's

  15. Never happen by TerryAtWork · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There's just no way the average guy is going to geek all day on the phone, for one thing.

    For another, people's thumb tendons won't let them....

    Only geeks will geek on the phone all day long and the cell doesn't do anything the pc doesn't do better, except walk around. And what kind of geek wants to walk around?

    What MIGHT happen is people can be their own rolling data centers with secure VPN to their home box, their own mp3s playing from home in their hifi earphones and a Dragon Ball Z type Scouter visual thingy to keep an eye on the important stuff with.

    All with provable open source very good privacy.

    However, not only is this not here yet, it might well be illegalized in the very near future....

    --
    It's Christmas everyday with BitTorrent.
    1. Re:Never happen by Strange+Ranger · · Score: 2

      Average Joe "geeking" to come:

      Whips out cell phone on the way home from work and hits "traffic update/quickest route home" shortcut. Avoids gridlock.

      Says "Hey phone record memo: 'Honey pick me up Duffs beer and a some razor blades while you're out please', phone - deliver memo to Wife and verify." Puts phone in pocket

      Stops for gas. Clicks button on phone to pay for gas. Gets AT&T/Exxon promotional discount.

      Pulls into driveway of mistress, phone chimes with "Dinner at inlaws" reminder his wife sent him last week. Pulls out of mistress's driveway.

      Calls wife, points phone at self and asks "Honey do I look okay for dinner?"

      Slides phone into car cradle and keys up favorite soothing music mix.

      Remembers to call his kids to see if they've managed to get that darn DVD player set up for movies later.

      --

      Operator, give me the number for 911!
  16. I was waiting for this war by abhikhurana · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I was actually looking forward to this war. Its been a long time since MS met its match and Nokia is more than a match for MS. Firstly Nokia phones are normally known to be reliable. A fact I cant say about MS software. Secondly Nokia makes these phones so they dont have to convince the phone manufacturers to join the bandwagon. Thirdly, in Europe, anti MS feelings are strong, so I dont think MS can make much of an impact in this market. Fourthly, all the major phone manufacturers have signed up for symbian. And its pretty easy to write applications on that too. Lastly, MS cant arm twist Nokia into carrying their software, mainly because a viable alternative exists. But knowing how MS operates, they may try to pull off something aka Xbox. Don't know how Nokia will counter that.

    1. Re:I was waiting for this war by MartinB · · Score: 2
      But knowing how MS operates, they may try to pull off something aka Xbox.

      Well the XBox is interesting, mostly because it's being absolutely caned in sales by Sony and it's shedding 3rd party developers.

      Don't know how Nokia will counter that.

      Same way Sony has - by having critical mass in both sales and developers, and being plain better.

      --

      The only thing you can accurately describe as "Scotch" is a sticky tape made by 3M. And it's

    2. Re:I was waiting for this war by Anonymous+Bullard · · Score: 2

      I've been wondering why Nokia doesn't "do microsoft" and join the OSS community (I mean in full force instead of the toe-tipping), IBM, Sun et al in undercutting the exact Microsoft powerbases that they use to extend their monopoly so effectively. Those monopolistic horns-of-plenty are of course Office and the Windows OSes. Those two - Office and OS - are the only weapons that can truly force MS into the compromising (aka negotiating) table.

      First the OS: If Nokia were to throw their full force around to endorse Linux within EU and elsewhere in the world (U.S. exempted, since there the MS monopoly is now sanctioned by the republican regime), the effect would be significant. Everybody knows and trusts Nokia, and there's a fair amount of gadgetry out there under their label besides just mobile phones. Computers, set-top boxes and PDAs are also "communicators" of sort and thereby within the territory Nokia must be in to remain relevant ad infinitum.

      Undercutting Microsoft's Office revenue just makes so much sense that it hurts. Here Nokia ought to endorse OpenOffice and StarOffice and using their massice channel access they could easily help add a few crucial percentage points to OOo's userbase. And if they were really serious they could even buy out the MS lackey's Corel at near cash value and redirect their WordPerfect Office resources towards OOo/StarOffice development. That'd be worth at least some 10 markershare points if aggressively executed. Moving Corel's XML-based strategy (dynamic data delivery to any device, including mobile devices) away from .NET and towards OSS-compatible open standards would give MS another double-blow, and porting their graphics apps line-up to Linux would complete that turnaround. For a relatively small investment Nokia could deliver a huge blow to Microsoft's revenue stream and thereby to their ability to continue to use the MSFT stock in the pyramidesque scam as before.

      As a succesful and reliable hardware vendor Nokia can and should take Microsoft head on, because Microsoft has been trying to do just that to Nokia (and everybody else who matters) already.

      --

      Should invading one's peaceful neighbours be opposed, or rewarded with trade deals?

  17. Promise me something? by MacAndrew · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm no Luddite, I think all this innovation is fine and dandy (although, sorry, I do not salivate at the prospect of MS getting into my phone) ... but can anyone promise that I'll still be able to buy plain, simple, boring phones and basically do telephone calls? And don't need an engineering degree to operate? Please?

    This is from someone who misses corded dial telephones that never broke, or if they did the phone company swapped you for a new one. There were a lot of problems with that era, but some nice things, too. I still have a classic ugly-beige tabletop phone with a hard-to-turn dial and a REAL BELL. And even Alexander Graham Bell could probably use it in minutes.

  18. Hiptop equipment by davejenkins · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've recently spent some time with Nokia engineers, and they all had the hip-top communicators. Certainly they seemed very functional, but these engineers all still carried laptops-- the hiptop stuff was really suped-up text messenging and maybe some email.

    The flipside were the belt-cases they wore to carry the things around. Definite geek-factor there, both good and bad.

    Don't get me wrong-- I think the correct approach is to keep adding things to phones rather than stripping things off computers. Open Source taught us that lesson. But the ergonomics and design 'cool' factor needs some work.

    1. Re:Hiptop equipment by bstadil · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Certainly they seemed very functional, but these engineers all still carried laptops

      It's an interesting point but makes little difference. These guys have probably carried laptops for years, as has a lot of other people. The market is flat.

      The issue at hand is where the growth is going to be, being the top dog in a stagnant market is fine but MS' valuation is based on growth. If they can't grow they will be relegated to the status of GM or Exxon.

      Nothing wrong per se but share prices will be 1/5'th of current.

      --
      Help fight continental drift.
    2. Re:Hiptop equipment by evilviper · · Score: 2
      If they can't grow they will be relegated to the status of GM or Exxon.

      Oh please oh please relegate me to the status of GM. I wouldn't mind making billions upon billions of dollars.

      What was your point there?
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    3. Re:Hiptop equipment by evilviper · · Score: 2
      The point is that both GM and Exxon has 10 times the sales of MS, Makes as much money as MS but their Capitalization (outstanding shares times share price) is 1/3 or so.

      Since when is shares*price the sole measurment of company status/health/etc?

      The problem with GM/Exxon is that they have to spend extensive ammounts of money on their prducts, where M$'s income is nearly pure profit.

      I'd bet M$ would kill for 10Xs their current sales.

      What can I say? I just don't think the comparison is a good one.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  19. Change in Mission Statement by MartinB · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I think it was pretty inevitable as MS realised:

    1. In the vast majority of profitable markets, they're as close as they're going to get to achieving the old Mission Statement
    2. Once market saturation of PCs had occurred, selling into that market is no longer a cash cow, but a steady, lower residual income of gentle upgrades (now that the Win9x codebase is dead, and Office is as developed as it is, there is no good reason for most organisations to do more than patch and buy new licenses for new machines). So to keep stockholders happy (who remember are not paid dividends - it's all based on shareprice growth), they have to find another market where there could be double digit %age growth year on year.

    Unfortunately for them, they're entering markets with some extremely focused competitors who already dominate the space. In competing against Sony, Nokia and Ericsson (none of whom are likely to miss tricks the way IBM did in the 1980s), Microsoft are discovering what it's like to be on the receiving end.

    --

    The only thing you can accurately describe as "Scotch" is a sticky tape made by 3M. And it's

    1. Re:Change in Mission Statement by MartinB · · Score: 2

      The employee stock options aside, remember that MS (as with all public companies) is the property of its stockholders.

      In ownership terms, there is no Microsoft to do that (plus even in today's market, it would be an unaffordable exercise). However, if a senior management team could afford to do it then sure, it could be taken back into private hands.

      But given that the value in owning MS shares is entirely based on their expected increase in price on the open market, it would be somewhat pointless.

      --

      The only thing you can accurately describe as "Scotch" is a sticky tape made by 3M. And it's

  20. Re:Yep... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Italy population: 57.3 mil
    Italy size:113,536 sq. mi
    US population: 278.4 mil
    US size: 5,539,224 sq. mi

    people per square mile:
    Italy:504
    US:50

    cellphones per person per square mile:
    Italy:403.2
    US:22.5

    # of cellphones:
    Italy: 45.84 mil
    US: 125.28

  21. Hmm by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Funny
    from 'a computer on every desk and in every home' to 'empowering people through great software, any time, any place and on any device.'

    In other words, phase one (a computer on every desk and in every home) has been completed +/- 10%. Now it's time to go out and achieve 100% (+/- 10%) proliferation on portable devices.

    What's next, owning my brain?

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re:Hmm by mstyne · · Score: 2

      Well, maybe.

      --
      mstyne: real name, no gimmicks
  22. Can't wait! by octalgirl · · Score: 4, Funny

    So now I'll have to CTRL-ALT-DEL to access my phone book.
    Will it ask me for an administrators password when I want to change the ring tone?
    And what will I do when I get an 'Ignore/Cancel' error message?
    I can see it now: mid conversation, and all of a sudden a message pops up 'There is a new security patch for your phone. Would you like to install it now?'

    1. Re:Can't wait! by Pfhreakaz0id · · Score: 2

      Funny thing was, I use to work at a company that wrote Voice over IP software. We had these Cisco IP phones at our desk. Since we "ate our own dog food" in that we were always running a beta version of our server software for our phone service, we were frequently making changes. The phones were really a small computer (you could ping 'em) with a JVM and everything. When they made changes, some changes wouldn't take affect until you restarted, so they would come in and say "you need to reboot your phone"... it was hysterical, although mine only "crashed" once.

  23. Just make the damn phone work by toothless+joe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Here's a partial list of my priorities when it comes to having a cellphone:

    1) Geographic range
    2) Sound quality
    3) Dropped calls
    .
    .
    .
    75) Playing tetris
    76) Browsing the web
    77) Checking e-mail

    It's a phone, for God's sake.

    1. Re:Just make the damn phone work by Sogol · · Score: 2

      I could do without the dropped calls,but my list is similar (plus SSH client, amortization calculator). I have been using a kyocera QCP 6035 Smartphone for over a year, and have enjoyed all of the above functionality. Its NOT just a phone, its a unified device which relieves me from carrying a laptop. Did I mention that it has an ssh client? I'll race you to the parking lot, and we'll see who can login to work first ;)

  24. Re:well duh by muyuubyou · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's not that. Penetration measures against population. That is, 80% of the Italians (some 80 million, not so small) own a cell phone. Italy, Japan, South Korea, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Spain, Netherlands, ... have more users than the USA per inhabitant.

    With such differences, it's not a matter of infrastructure. You can take only those regions with coverage and the difference would still be there. The problem is in the offer.

  25. The fight for digital (as in finger) dominance by circletimessquare · · Score: 4, Funny

    The fight for digital (as in finger) dominance

    Nov 21st 1952
    From The Historiconomist BS edition

    The convergence of slide rules and notepads is bringing the giants of the plastic and paper industries into direct conflict

    IT MAY look like a notepad, but the Orange PenNPaper, launched last month, is much more than that. With its lined pages, multicolored ink and spiral ring spine, it resembles other notepads on the market. But it has one far more significant feature: the lookup tables and conversion formulas on the inside front cover, indicated by the familiar-looking quadratic equation on the upper left side. For the PNP is the first "quick-reference notepad"--in other words, it does things a slide rule does. It is the paper industry's attempt to stake its claim in the new academic community of engineers and scientists created by the convergence of notepads and slide rules. It is no less than a declaration of war.

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  26. Microsoft is screwed... by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They should've realized from the tough time they had against Palm in the PDA market that they should just not even bother with embedded devices.

    In the PDA market, size, reliability, and battery life are major factors, and those three have held WinCE devices back constantly - PalmOS devices have been able to do more with far less. (A 33 MHz Palm is far more responsive UI-wise than a 200 MHz WinCE device, and lasts far longer on battery.)

    Now they're not only up against PalmOS (There are some great PalmOS smarphones out there, such as the Kyocera 6035 and 7135, Treos, and the upcoming Samsung I500 - I don't consider the I300 to be great since it's a PDA first and not a very good phone.) and Symbian (All of the Symbian devices I've seen performed their phone functions very well and had excellent integration.

    What does WinCE have? It doesn't have battery life or reliability, and its hardware requirements mean that CE devices are almost always larger than their PalmOS and Symbian brethren. All three of these factors held CE back in the PDA market, but are even more critical in the phone market, where the Kyocera 6035 (One of the smaller smartphones) is considered to be monstrous in size.

    Every MS-based phone that has hit the market has flopped, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

    I see Symbian winning the market for "basic" smartphones, and PalmOS winning the market for "power users" who need mainstream PDA capabilities.

    --
    retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    1. Re:Microsoft is screwed... by f00zbll · · Score: 2, Informative
      Having worked at a company that made high end cell phones, I disagree.
      I see this actually the other way around. SymbianOS 6 is way more powerful than PalmOS 4 (and very likely also 5) and this gap will widen even more with SymbianOS 7 [symbian.com]

      Phone manufacturers have not been shy about voicing their hatred and disdane for MS. Symbian by the way is a recycled piece of junk. I won't bother rehashing the ugly history of symbian, but the thing has been in development for 6+ years. Do a search in google for symbian to find out how many horrible failures it's had. The only reason it is still alive is MS keeps dumping money into the product.

      I've spoken to embedded phone engineers that work at qualcomm and others in the cell industry. Nokia, Ericcson, Sony, LG and motorola hate MS. It's just that simple. Plus symbian takes an order of magnitude more memory to run than other embedded systems. There's a good reason a lot of phones have a simple OS and don't have a full blow RTOS, memory and cost. When you sell phones for 30.00, you can't afford to spend 2.00 on the OS and 10.00 on 16megs of ram. Here is an excerpt from symbian's page

      limited memory: mobile phones and handheld computers have a very limited amount of memory, with memory for running programs often in the region of a few megabytes and memory for storing files usually a few tens of megabytes. The challenge for the developer is to make their software usable despite these restrictions, and this requires a combination of skillful programming and careful design. Restricted memory also poses challenges in the design of the operating system itself

      Notice they mention megs and not kilobytes. With the competative phone market every kb of memory counts towards the profit margin.

    2. Re:Microsoft is screwed... by Jason+Earl · · Score: 2

      Microsoft could bury Palm and Symbian, and if they were determined enough they could even guarantee that no one would ever touch Linux again. They have the money, the technology, and the content deals that would make not choosing their software the kiss of death. They could make WinCE so desirable that manufacturers would be begging to use it.

      But they aren't going to, and the reason is simple. When it comes to consumer electronics price per unit is king, and Microsoft simply isn't interested in competing in a market that doesn't have a double digit profit margin. And who would blame them. If you had the choice between investing in a business that had an 85% profit margin and years of outrageously high returns and one that had a 5% profit margin you would concentrate on the market with the higher profit margin too.

      So Microsoft dabbles just enough in these ancillary markets to guarantee that they don't completely miss the boat, but they are in no hurry to develop something that might compete with the PC. Unless, of course, they can make the sort of profit margins they are accustomed to.

      Microsoft is desperate for new markets. Their stock price still reflects high expectations of growth, and the PC market is simply not going to provide that growth. However, Microsoft can't afford to enter new markets where there is fierce competition. It does them no good to win a market if the profit margin for their software drops too low.

      Microsoft's real problem is that they are starting to compete with software developers that are willing to accept far lower profit margins, and outside the entrenched market created by Windows Microsoft is going to have real problems overcoming this problem.

    3. Re:Microsoft is screwed... by aminorex · · Score: 2

      > Symbian by the way is a recycled piece of junk. I
      > won't bother rehashing the ugly history of symbian,
      > but the thing has been in development for 6+ years.
      > Do a search in google for symbian to find out how
      > many horrible failures it's had. The only reason it
      > is still alive is MS keeps dumping money into the
      > product.

      You misspelled "WinCE".

      But seriously, folks, what kind of idiot would name
      a product "wince"?

      Q: Why should we buy WinCE for our (random embedded
      device), Madame Microsoft-Drone?

      A: Well... it's better than a poke in the eye with
      a sharp stick! Or... maybe not.

      *Wince.*

      --
      -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
  27. What? by Sj0 · · Score: 3, Funny

    'empowering people through great software...

    What?

    Where are they going to get that from?

    --
    It's been a long time.
  28. Another Key Factor. by juuri · · Score: 2

    Sony-Ericsson and Nokia (as well as others) have standardized on a phone OS platform, EPOC, that isn't microsoft based.

    --
    --- I do not moderate.
    1. Re:Another Key Factor. by MartinB · · Score: 2

      True. And part of the logic for that standardisation was a competitive one.

      --

      The only thing you can accurately describe as "Scotch" is a sticky tape made by 3M. And it's

  29. M$ by Woogiemonger · · Score: 2, Funny

    I loathe the day when I flip open my mobile phone and see the blue screen of death.

  30. Ericsson by MartinB · · Score: 2

    Oops, yes. Ericsson are Swedish. The causes and logic are similar.

    --

    The only thing you can accurately describe as "Scotch" is a sticky tape made by 3M. And it's

  31. Utility Vs. Toy by AmbientNeedle · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This suggests that all computer users are also phone users, and all phone users are computer users. However I'm a computer user, and I do not own a phone (nor do I have plans to). What do I need one for? My communication skills aren't hindered now.

    But I think the other side of the coin is more interesting. Think of all the whiny, screaming. 15 year old high school girls with phones on the oublic bus as they annoyingly try out every ring tone at maximum volume. Think about how they call every single one of their friends over and over again to tell them assanine gossip. Think about their tacky leopard print phone face covers.

    Beh. The phone in America has more of a "toy" feel to me than it does a "utility" feel. Does anyone have any insight as to how the folks in Italy feel about their phones? I can't imagine trying to drive there, I'd be yelling at every other bent-necked wheel-clutching gabber I saw.

    1. Re:Utility Vs. Toy by tempfile · · Score: 2

      Relax. It's the same in Germany, holder of the world-record in pointless SMS messaging. IIRC, last year's figures were about 2 billion messages - per month - from about 50 million phones.

  32. Not until it is CHEAP and NEARLY FREE. by Viewsonic · · Score: 2

    No one wants to pay more than a few bucks a month for any of this.. Right now cellular is fine for chatting with friends to meet at whatever resturant or bar or movie showing, but outside of that, it's impossibly expensive. If you want to use your palm online all the time, it'll cost literally hundreds of dollars per month.. They need to change that to a $5 unlimited rate/month if they want people to embrace it. Remember: Think cheap!

  33. It's all software by MartinB · · Score: 2

    Numbers 1-77 of your needs are provided by software. It may not be obvious, it may not be branded, but it's all software. Same goes for a large number of systems which need to co-operate to get your credit card to work either in stores or ATMs - they're all dependent on software.

    --

    The only thing you can accurately describe as "Scotch" is a sticky tape made by 3M. And it's

  34. Re:well duh by Mr+Guy · · Score: 2

    No, it's entirely a matter of infrastructure, just not the one you are thinking of.

    Mobile phones aren't as popular here because of POTS infrastructure beating the hell out of it. When AT&T and Sprint offer the same WIRELESS deals as they do LONG DISTANCE deals, then you may see the numbers change.

    When I can pay 20 bucks for unlimited local calls and 10 cents a minute for long distance calls then we'll talk (rimshot).

  35. Re:Yep... by twisty7867 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Actually, while this seems to be a reflection of the technological backwardness of the US - it's really a reflection on the failed socialist policies of European states. I used to work with a guy who had emigrated from Romainia - he's like, "of course everyone in Romania has cell phone - it costs hundreds of dollars and takes months to get a landline" - state telecom monopolies are not known for their quick service. Also, in Europe, people are accustomed to paying per minute for their local landline calls - concepts foreign to Americans who can secure a landline in a couple of days and feel entitled to unlimited free local calls. It's not much of a leap to get someone who is accustomed to paying $0.05/min for their calls to get them to pay $0.10/min for a mobile phone - but people who are accustomed to not paying for their calls at all - it's another matter.

  36. What migration plan? by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 2

    "All the standards are designed to progress from the base European infrastructure, which is why you'll notice American operators installing 2.5G networks now, to use the European migration plans to get to 3G."

    Excuse me, but WHAT migration plan?

    And how is UMTS in any way based on GSM/GPRS?

    There is no interoperability between GSM/GPRS and UMTS whatsoever - New spectrum, new handsets, and new base stations are needed. Essentially, to go to 3G in a GSM/GPRS system, you have no option but to essentially build an entirely new network from the ground up. (As a result, many European providers are hurting financially, thanks to being forced to buy new spectrum at outrageous prices.)

    Meanwhile, CDMA2000 (2.5G/3G) and cdmaOne (2G) are fully interoperable - cdmaOne handsets like my Kyocera 6035 will work fine on a CDMA2000 network, whether 1xRTT (2.5G) or 1xEV-DO (3G), and CDMA2000-capable handsets will work fine in areas where CDMA2000 capability has not been added and only cdmaOne base stations are available. No new spectrum is needed, providers can use their existing frequency assignments.

    There is a clear upgrade for CDMA providers from 2G(cdmaOne)->2.5G(1xRTT)->3G(1xEV-DO) - Where's the upgrade path for GSM providers? 2G(GSM)->2.5G(GPRS)->dead end.

    --
    retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
  37. Wrong analogy by r_j_prahad · · Score: 5, Funny

    With Microsoft getting involved, it's going to be more than a mere collision... it's going to be a train wreck.

  38. Mobile, only when it makes sense. by matman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I use a computer at work to code. I use my computer at home to learn (web, email, linux) and to play music. I could use a cell phone, sometimes, but most of the time, it's cheaper to use a normal land line. I got rid of my cell because I hated having to worry about how many minutes I was using, even for local calls.

    From a pure function point of view, I'd like a mobile device that lets me schedule apointments, take notes, do some calculator type things, chat on the phone, chat online, and play music from my music collection (by this I mean remotely - the files would be streamed). However, it would have to cost only about US $30 a month (including unlimited local airtime) or else it would raise my expenses and I would realize that I didn't need it.

    I really don't have any use for a web pad, but a laptop would be cool (really only to allow me to move around in my own house while computing). I would go for a laptop as my primary computing device (with an external monitor or projector for when I want a big display) and a mobile unit for the above described activities.

    When it comes down to it, if these features raised my monthly costs much (over 5%), I would not pay. I'm cheap, and all of that mobile stuff doesn't really improve my life (it would probably hurt it by making me work more)

  39. Funny & Insightful parent :) by Kjella · · Score: 2

    And just like I feel. I'd add SMS w/dictionary somewhere on top too, but besides that... I'll have my Nokia 3210 till it breaks, unless a future job requires that I can hook it up to a laptop or something.

    Then again, I thought 3210 was being too flashy with these logos and whatever (99.9% of the time it's in my pocket, noone sees the damn logo, and picture messages noone I know ever use, oh and my dial tone is unique so I know it's my phone ringing, not some popular melody). But, the 3210 was a big hit because of that stuff.

    I long since figured I'm not average, pretty much a minimalist (like Win2k-serious business vs. XP-flashy thingy). Generalizing from yourself is always very dangerous, the marked for a computer-phone could be huge even if *you* don't need one...

    Kjella

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  40. Please state the nature of the emergency by Quixadhal · · Score: 2

    I can see it now.

    911 - "Please state the nature of the emergency"
    you - "I'm being..."
    msphone - "priveledge violation. press any key to reboot"

  41. I kind of agree by ryochiji · · Score: 2
    >hates cell phones

    When I lived in Japan, I loathed cell phones, and was proudly a member of the 0.1% of my age group to not own a cell phone.

    Now that I'm in the US, I have a cell phone, but I got one only because I was in a long distance relationship at the time, and long distance calls were cheaper on a cell phone. Also, I don't have a phone line at home, so it's also my only phone...

    Personally, what I don't understand is cell phones that try to be computers or PDAs. I've owned three PDAs (starting with a Pilot 5000) and found all of them useless (other than being good conversation starters and having geek appeal). Personally, I think a cell phone that tries to be more than a cell phone is equally useless. If I get a cell phone, I want a phone. I want a phone that's reliable (as in, doesn't crash or get disconnected in the middle of a conversation), and I don't give a damn if it takes crappy pictures or runs Quake on a puny screen.

    At least in the US, I think they're trying to make up for the crappy infrastructure by packing useless features into the actual phones. "You'll get disconnected every 3 minutes, but look, you can play games while you're disconnected!"

  42. Innovators dilemma by bstadil · · Score: 2
    Its almost a repeat of the classic Mainframe -> Mini -> PC -> ?

    If you haven't read Clayton Christensen's Innovators Dilemma you owe it to yourselves to do that.

    One of the observations he makes when a disruptive technology comes along is that the dominat player in the "level" above always gets displaced.

    --
    Help fight continental drift.
  43. ... until M$ buys a high-ranking EU bureaucrat by virtigex · · Score: 2, Informative

    which will not be until December 2 according to the register. Apparently, MS are hiring a Detlef Eckert who heads a department in the European Union overseeing security, e-Commerce and telecommunications. But don't worry, he will not be resigning his post, just taking a leave of absence to work at Microsoft until he rotates back into his position to oversee EU IT in an unbiased way.

  44. Re:it's not suprising... by Sj0 · · Score: 2

    I'm truly shocked. I'm only 20, and I was able to point out iraq on the world atlas during the first war.

    I was able to point out my own country on a map as well...Perhaps that 10% should be considered the margin of error?

    --
    It's been a long time.
  45. http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/11/21/micro by krygny · · Score: 2, Informative


    This article (originally referred to in this submittal) comprehensively outlines how it's an uphill battle for Microsoft.

    Mozilla's tabbed browsing is ideal for posting links on /.

    --
    Research shows that 67% of those who use the term "research shows", are just making shit up.
  46. Have to change those commercials by dirvish · · Score: 3, Funny

    Can you hear me now...ahhhh shit, another BSOD!

  47. Clueless statements in the article by binaryDigit · · Score: 2

    the new handsets seem to be succeeding where the PC has failed. Mobile phones have a far broader appeal than PCs

    Gee, maybe it's because cell phones can often be bought for "free" or mostly for $100 while even a "cheap" pc costs ~$500. Not to mention the "slight" difference in functionality provided. Sheesh, that's like saying that the boat market is a failure because they have less market penetration than the auto market.

  48. Re:Yep... by Skiboo · · Score: 2, Funny

    # of cellphones:
    Italy: 45.84 mil
    US: 125.28


    The US only has 125 cell phones? Geez, that must suck. (And i can only assume the .28 is a phone that was mangled by a frustrated user)

  49. Might be necessity, not increased acceptance... by Gruneun · · Score: 3, Informative

    While we were living in Italy, we were one of the fortunate people, through military contacts, who could procure a land line quickly and with very little effort. It wasn't an "old world" area, but the group in charge of telephones didn't generally feel pressured to move quickly. I'm not sure how much has changed in the last 10 years, but I would imagine that it's probably much easier to get a mobile phone than a land line, so "acceptance" is probably a sign of convenience, rather than progressive thinking.

    1. Re:Might be necessity, not increased acceptance... by Mac+Degger · · Score: 2

      Not the case in the Netherlands, France, Belgium or Germany...landlines get hooked up fast enough (a couple of days), yet still mobiles are to be found in nearly everyones pocket. So much so that when we were organising a big event, we could just assume that all our 'middle management' (all volunteers, +-150 people) would have one. And yes, they did.

      --
      -- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
  50. Celullar is Dead: Long live Mesh-Networks by cosmosis · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As someone who worked for AT&T Wireless for years, I can tell you they are quickly running our of money. The centralized "cellular" paradigm is quickly running our of steam. It is simply not economically scalable to compete with very high speed ad-hoc "bottom up", software definted radio mesh networks that are the wave of the future. My opinion, is not only will telcos fail, but lets help them fail as fast as possible to make room for innovation by opening up more parts of the spectrum.

    As for Microsft's involvement, who cares? I can't see them either dominating this space like they managed to do with the desktop. Interoperability will be the key, just like on the net today. Linux alread has a foot hold in this market.

    Planet P - Liberation With Technology.

    1. Re:Celullar is Dead: Long live Mesh-Networks by aminorex · · Score: 2

      > As for Microsft's involvement, who cares? I can't
      > see them ... dominating this space

      You seem to forget that you are talking about a
      convicted criminal organization with a turnover
      larger than the defense budget of France.
      If sufficiently motivated, they can give Finland
      an "offer they can't refuse".

      --
      -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
  51. Re:it's not suprising... by Sj0 · · Score: 2

    p.s. What is the link in your sig meant to do? I can see that it's an impossible IP address (for IPv4, at least), and when I click on it, I get an error(as I thought I would.)

    --
    It's been a long time.
  52. Wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Actually, while this seems to be a reflection of the technological backwardness of the US - it's really a reflection on the failed socialist policies of European states. I used to work with a guy who had emigrated from Romainia

    You remember that thing they called the "soviet bloc", don't you? Romania was part of it. Italy wasn't, Finland wasn't, Austria wasn't - those are the EU countries with the highest market penetration for mobile phones. Here in Austria, I can get a fully digital landline set up within 2 days at a reasonable price, in any damn Alpine village. It's not much different in most of Western Europe. No, it wasn't always like this, but: the success of mobile telephony started after the modernisation of terrestrial. So, please forget the myth that cell phones took off in Europe because the "normal" phones just don't work properly. It might have to do with the fact that there's just one standard, GSM, but that's a wild guess.

    Sure, there are no flat-fee "chat with your next-door neighbour on the phone" plans as in the US. But how does that help mobile telephony, which is comparatively expensive in any case?

  53. Microsoft phones need a color screen... by alispguru · · Score: 2

    ... to correctly display the Blue Screen of Death.

    Sorry, but someone had to say it!

    --

    To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
  54. Re:Yep... by El+Cabri · · Score: 2

    It is so cute, everytime a cellphone-related piece of news comes up on slashdot, to see Americans plead for their backward cellphone market by boasting how their landlines are so comparatively good that they actually don't need cellphones.

    Good for them that we rarely talk about bank cards (no embedded chips in the US), washer/dryers (common US models were designed in the 50s), car radios (no RDS in the US), TVs (widescreen penetration extremely small), trains (less high-speed tracks in the whole US than in Spain)...

  55. They'd better read "Psychology of Everyday Things" by dpbsmith · · Score: 2

    It's just a phone, dammit. You use it to make calls.

    All these companies had better take a look at Donald Norman's "Psychology of Everyday Things." He talks quite a lot about telephones. In the fifties and sixties, nobody had any trouble using them. In the seventies and eighties, people started to have serious trouble using their office phones. (Do YOU know how to transfer a call on yours without dropping the connection?)

    Now this crapola is spreading. When my wife and I went to buy cell phones we decided that even though our needs were significantly different, we needed to buy identical models so we could be a little user group of two and get technical support from each other (honey, how do I get this thing out of silent operation and turn the ring back on? sweetie, why is it saying "EXT-ROAM" when I'm supposed to be within my home area?)

    On getting back from my high school reunion, I put some snapshots up on my web site and sent the URL to four classmates. Although they all have email, three of the four don't seem to know what a URL or a website is ("Did you really send pictures in that email? I'd like to see them but I can't figure out how... I'm not very good at this computer stuff"). Don't assume that everyone wants to run spreadsheets on their cellphones.

    Please, guys, read Norman, and KEEP IT SIMPLE, will you? If you know how.

  56. wrong numbers? by muyuubyou · · Score: 2, Informative

    http://www.eurunion.org/profile/facts.htm
    (actual 15 members, which doesn't include, for instance, Switzerland or Denmark)

    2001 data unless otherwise stated:
    US area: 3717.9 sq miles ??
    US population: 284.8 million ??
    US density/sq mile: 76.6
    US share of world trade: 11.9%
    US mobile users: 137.5 million (July 2002)

    EU area: 1249.0 sq miles
    EU population: 378.0 million
    EU density/sq mile: 302.6
    EU share of world trade: 19.4%
    European mobile users 279 million

    European penetration 70.2% (July 2002)

    world total number of users: 860 million

  57. Europe will be a major battlefield by eMago · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Nokia, Siemens, Ericsson, Sagem, Alcatel, Symbian.
    The list could go on. Many, many of the big players in the mobile phone market (phones, network technology, software) are located in. Europe. Europe is a huge market. Not only Italy or Finnland, but also the other big and small countries (DE, FR, GB, ES) have a penetration beyond 60%. There are approximately twice as many mobile phones in Europe as in the US.

    And the younger generation wants to do more than just phone someone. SMS, Games, even the number of ringtones or display colors is a very important factor for many customers here.
    I believe that while EMS (enhanced message service) was useless like WAP, MMS (multimedia message service) will be used widely. Many people (especially nerds) laugh about these uses but you shouldn't underestimate how much they are accepted by other people. Mobile Multimedia Instant Messaging willl later (with the help of GPRS and UMTS) bring the Internet into the mobile world:
    EVERNET. It's not just a marketing hype! If the price is ok (and even if it isn't -> SMS), the (European) customers will use it, because it changes their life so much. For all these features you need software, capable delivering these "services":
    You should take a closer look on the Symbian OS v7. It's a well engineered OS with a bright future. One day, at some places in Europe, it might be used more frequently than MS Windows.

    We will see who will win this war. One could even call it a war between continents... but this would perhaps be too flamebait. My guess: At the end everyone will find their niche!

    --
    --- censored
  58. If only I could afford the service plan by heroine · · Score: 2

    If slashdot advertized the service plans as much as the phones maybe I'd actually buy something instead of just commenting on it.

  59. Exactly... by Gruneun · · Score: 2

    A 33 MHz Palm is far more responsive UI-wise than a 200 MHz WinCE device, and lasts far longer on battery.

    I replaced my old Palm recently... with a new one. It's simple, really. While WinCE was trying to cram every known thing into their PDA OS, Palm continued to provide the essential features to the user as quickly as possible. I hit one button and there's my address book or calendar.

    Screw solitaire and mp3 files if I have to sit through a boot time.

  60. Re:Let us thank screwed Microsoft by DickBreath · · Score: 2

    Microsoft could bury Palm and Symbian, and if they were determined enough they could even guarantee that no one would ever touch Linux again.

    Since it is thanksgiving time in the US, a time when we traditionally get together to thank Microsoft for permitting us to use technology throughout the rest of the year, let us take this time and remember to thank Microsoft for their generosity in graciously permitting Linux, Palm and Symbian to exist.

    --

    I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
  61. Phone companies software quality certifications by Tellarin · · Score: 2, Interesting


    while some problems may come from the software it is important to notice that mobile phone companys (telco in general) have made huge investments in quality management

    specifically that i remember now, all of the bigger player have serveral ISO9000 compliances and many are CMM certified (specially Siemens that has level 3 and Motorola that has from 3 to 5 depending on the specific facility/factory)

    while microsoft (and other software companies developing for computers) has none in all it's divisions

    1. Re:Phone companies software quality certifications by interiot · · Score: 2
      • and many are CMM certified (specially Siemens that has level 3 and Motorola that has from 3 to 5 depending on the specific facility/factory)
      Let me tell you, from first-hand experience, that there are definitely a couple cases where all of the engineers are dumbfounded that the organization could be assessed at level 3. Yes, telcos invest a lot in quality, and they've had a lot of time to work that out, especially with the hardware they produce because they've been doing that for 15 years. But in some cases, the organizations are having trouble shifting the whole institution's mindset towards software-driven rather than hardware-driven, let alone around the idea that the code be secure enough to allow external uninspected code to run on their devices.
  62. Re:Poor Penitration in the US by LinuxHam · · Score: 2

    anything that has a cost associated with it is "ridiculously expensive" to some slashdotters. you'll never get a cellphone if you wait for everyone here to agree that a certain carrier is worth the money.

    --
    Intelligent Life on Earth
  63. Re:They'd better read "Psychology of Everyday Thin by debest · · Score: 2

    They still make simple telephones. They still make simple cell phones. You can stop complaining by simply buying one of these simple devices instead of a complex device.

    You pointed out the issue yourself: you now have different needs. YOU (and your wife) decided that your needs were different, meaning that YOU decided that the ability to simply dial/talk or answer/talk was not enough. If you want your phone to do more, you have to put up with complexity (meaning you have a learning curve to deal with).

    Do you really think that if your phone system in the 50's and 60's were CAPABLE of transfering a call from one handset to another that it would have been any more intuitive then than it is now? Conversely, if all you could do on today's phones was dial or answer (no speeddial, hold, transfer, speaker, voicemail, forward, display, etc., etc.), do you think anyone would have trouble using it today?

    You want to keep it simple? Don't expect anything more than the simplest function.

    BTW, I'm not unsympathetic. I too hate it that my brain resists the effort to learn how to use a new device. The effort (short-term pain) is the price I pay so that I can benefit (long-term gain)from the device's functions. But I don't see how it can be done any easier. These manufacturers hire UI designers: I certainly know they do a better job of laying out the functions than I *ever* could! But there simply is no way to pack a bunch of neat features on a tiny device so that a person could just look at it and know how it all works!

    --
    Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
  64. Re:well duh by pommiekiwifruit · · Score: 2

    If the actual figure is 80 in-use phones per inhabitant, that does not necessarily mean 80% of people have phones, since some people have several phones (e.g. home/work or new model/slightly unfashionable model or network A/network B (admittedly the last can be just achieved using different SIM cards)).

  65. Um, no. by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 2

    Because UMTS and GSM/GPRS use entirely different modulation schemes, there is NO WAY to make a phone for both systems that is not excessively expensive and/or large with good battery life.

    Because of the fact that cdmaOne and CDMA2000 have very closely related modulation schemes (In fact, they're almost identical), a CDMA2000 phone only needs one receiver/IF system and one transmit subsystem to use 2G, 2.5G, or in the future 3G networks. At worst it needs two RF frontends for dual-band capability, but everything from the IF on can be shared. To make a combination GSM/GPRS and UMTS phone, you need a complete receiver chain and a complete transmit chain for each network type, since they not only are on different frequencies, they have different modulation schemes and require different IF passbands. It's possible to gain some flexibility by using IF-sampling and software demodulators/downconverters, but such techniques are currently somewhat more costly and MUCH more power-hungry than "traditional" RF/IF subsystems.

    --
    retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
  66. Phone first, not PDA by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 2

    So far in the market, it seems that for "convergence" devices, consumers have rejected devices that are PDAs with mobile phone capability (Thera (WinCE), I300 (PalmOS), I330 (PalmOS)) in favor of devices that are phones with PDA functionality (Kyocera 6035 (PalmOS), upcoming 7135 (Also PalmOS), upcoming Samsung I500 (PalmOS), and most Symbian devices are primarily phones.)

    Yes, I agree, Palm has been doing a crap job with their hardware since the Palm III. I don't see why anyone would want to buy a "geniune" Palm when Sony's PalmOS devices are so much better. (Or if you're looking for PDA/phone integration, either a Treo or Kyocera - The Tungsten W is going to be DOA in the market because it's phone capabilities are crap.)

    I have a 6035 and I love it. PQAs + CDMA data = wonderful convenience.

    --
    retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
  67. Yes, because their usual tactics won't work by Baki · · Score: 2

    MSFT has succeeded in the PC market for two reasons:

    1. Luck
    They were lucky with their initial MS-DOS contract

    2. The networking effect
    All that came after 1 (luck) has to do with the networking effect known to affect computers: There is a cycle of platform software being dependant on availability of popular applications, and applications being dependant on the popularity of the platform. Later, proprietary file formats (office) also played their part.

    The networking effect is what kept MSFT in the lead after their initial luck (just like IBM earlier in the mainframe market).

    Now this cannot be transferred to a totally different market of mobile devices:

    1. The file formats cannot/need not be the same, thus MSFT looses their lock-in advantage.

    2. New operating systems (whether called Windows does not matter, since it is not windows no matter what) because of a radically different HW platform means the cycle of operating system and applications is broken.

    MSFT would have to start all over, without having the advantages they have been able to rely on in the past 20 years. Thus we start with a level playing field for the first time since long.

    We (as consumers) are very lucky that this time (like the mini market (UNIX)) but unlike the mainframe and PC markets before, the platform is quite open (Symbian) and the specs of the underlying hardware and protocols (GSM and 3G) are all open and can never be controlled by a single vendor. This is also a big difference, which shall make it impossible for MSFT to repeat their past success and tactics.

  68. Mobile Phone + MP3 by MartinB · · Score: 2
    That being said there is ONE service id like to see.. Mobile Phone + MP3!!!

    You can.

    --

    The only thing you can accurately describe as "Scotch" is a sticky tape made by 3M. And it's