Slashdot Mirror
Linux Spurs MS Price Cuts
jimb writes "Yahoo!
reports:
'What's happening is that Microsoft sales reps have been instructed to be on the lookout for any businesses that are migrating some of their machines to the Lindows OS,' Yankee Group analyst Laura DiDio told NewsFactor. 'If [the sales reps] think there's a real threat of some pretty large numbers of defections to open source, they can request authorization from Microsoft higher-ups to offer steeply discounted pricing."' I wonder how many businesses will now start pondering aloud the possibility ... I'm sure OS X is on MS's mind as well.
The other issue is that free software is not about getting the software itself for free, it's about the freedom to inspect, use, and improve the software as you like. That lowers TCO and reduces business risks; even if MIcrosoft gives away Windows for free, they can't compete with that.
... I'm sure OS X is on MS's mind as well.
:)
Yeah, but prolly not to anywhere near the same extent - proprietary hardware, remember? Added to which, Mac OS X isn't offering windows application interoperability.
On MS's mind, sure. In their sights...not nearly.
Triv
Can you imagine if companies started to discount their software when competitors were involved? What would our economy do? Wait....that would lead to COMPETITION and competition is bad, surely microsoft sales reps realize that their software is supreme and that ALL THE BASE BELONG TO THEM.
Next thing you know, Office will be free to compete with OpenOffice and the like.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Microsoft is heading back into a world of competition. The monopoly ride was good, but now they gotta get back to selling the shit on the grounds of quality and superiority in peoples mind, even if that means selling it for less.
Yo Grark
Canadian Bred with American Buttering.
Canadian Bred with American Buttering
Sex - Find It
Most of the times I have seen the comparison between the two cost isn't the number one factor. Normally it is "Proprietary vs. Open", "Low administrative needs", "Stability" or "Security" that tops the list.
Though the thought of a cheap OS might be appealing to some people I'm sure that isn't the only reason why people migrate away from the OS.
If you ask me Microsoft is barking up the wrong tree on this one.
Or am I off on this one?
... I'm sure OS X is on MS's mind as well.
What are they going to do? Offer to raise the price if someone is looking at buying a Mac?
Yeah, you may call me troll if you like, but as long as Apple keep its pricing, it will be a niche OS, partly for those that wants to tell the world they can afford it.
I'm sure it is a great computer, but even die hard Mac fans I know are buying PC's because they can not afford the computer they really want. Not to mention all non-Mac users.
Ellen Feiss or no, people that actually do switch are really, really rare, even these days.
Back in high school, every computer in the entire building was running Windows 98. Of course, we had a Novell-backed network to do all the dirty work like user authentication and email, but from a desktop standpoint, it was Windows all the way.
I found out about Gentoo from an Internet Web site and soon began investigating the feasibility of converting most of the existing machines over to Linux.
Years later, I saved my old school probably $5,000+ and they're all running highly-optimized, natively-compiled Linux systems courtesy of the Gentoo creators. I initially considered Slackware and Debian since they're rock-solid, but I felt that Gentoo had a more active community and a quicker turn-over in the development cycle.
Regardless, though, Linux was the right choice, and I urge potential Microsoft customers to seriously consider Open Source solutions. Do not let these meager price cuts deceive you!
If you celebrate Xmas, befriend me (538
The analyst almost for certain meant Linux, since Lindows is primarily a desktop oriented distro, and most business Linux migration is on the server side.
Don't be surprised, most "analysts" are marketroids with no technical background whatsoever, and really know little of what they cover, besides what they read in the press releases and company calls.
There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
I still wouldn't buy XP even if it was only $1. DRM + product activation BS + all the undocumented insecurity bugs that I can only rely on them to patch and announce if they find it convenient... Nope, Windows isn't worth a dollar to me.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
Is there really a company out there this stupid?
I can see the points of sticking with Windows (software works OK, no retraining costs, licencing cost increase doesn't outweigh short-term pain of switch). I can see the points of switching to a *real* Linux distro (Red Hat, SuSE, et al) aiming at the business desktop (Free, secure, etc).
But Lindows offers no advantage to a business. It is different enough from a user point of view that there would be big-time retraining. Most custom apps would not work (hell, most packaged Windows apps wouldn't either). They also play loose with the spirit of the GPL and it runs as root to open themselves up to viruses and hacks.
Maybe Microsoft is targeting businesses that show interest in Lindows because, when it comes to customers contemplating a switch from Windows, you might as well go after the dumbest ones first!
Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
If there was no Linux to compete with Microsoft, there would be no discounts.
I hope businesses see this as an opportunity to say no to Microsoft. Because if they all say yes, Microsoft will increase its market share and the discount will disappear right before their eyes.
50% market share for Linux and other open source OSs would be perfect and would make Microsoft play nice with their customers.
Linux: the best friend for Microsoft users.
This economy and MS's actions have provided an awesome opportunity for Open Source, and put MS at a risk that they haven't seen for more than a decade.
Yet open source advocates should keep focused. The software is almost where it needs to be, not quite. Why is this bad? Because there will potentially be a huge flood of new users, who will run crying back to MS if they encounter any significant issue (even if the issue is all in their mind). Basically, if open source loses this round of potential converts, we could be locked out for many many years.
Remember "that which doesn't kill me only makes me stronger".
No, I don't trust in god. He'll have to pay up front, like everybody else.
This reminds me the situation with IBM and their main-frame competitors, Amdahl and Fujitsu. The simplest thing to get a steep discount from IBM was to have a meeting with IBM salesperson while having either Amdahl or Fujitsu brochure on your desk. Worked like a charm! Yet with this practice widespread, it has slowly downed to all IBM customers that they pay too much in a first place, and may be they should look for mainframe alternatives. That was about 10-15 years ago. I hope the same will happen with Microsoft customers.
I bet there will be a sudden demand for Linux gurus next week. Not for conversions, but for "studies" of potential conversions, so the companies can reap the new "Linux discounts" from Microsoft.
If you're idle, this might be a good time to set up a "switch to Linux" consulting business.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Actually this is incorrect. The SEC filings are incredibly misleading. For example, Windows XP get's all of it's technology from the server team, so it therefore doesn't have to do a whole lot of R&D for the kernal and things like that. That's just one of many examples of how it's difficult to track profits within each MS department.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
> I mean comon, its not like Linux is that much of threat right now.
If you count the "might switch" headlines it looks like there has been a sudden upswing in Linux interest among companies and governments this year. Sure, it's still really minor in the big picture, but it's growing, and it appears to be growing faster. Someone at Micorsoft may have catastrophe theory on the mind.
Indeed, this announcement could be catastrophic as far as Micorsoft's pricing is concerned. And in the new Can't Cook The Books Anymore climate, that might be bad news for some quarterly income reports.
And since Micorsoft has always been more interested in share prices than in software, the catastrophe may be at hand.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
...OS X suffers from many of the same undesirable qualities as Windows: for instance... ...it requires hefty licensing fees.
The cheapest Xserve you can buy is $2999 and includes a copy of Mac OS X Server with an UNLIMITED concurrent-client access license. When I showed the specs on the Xserve to the Windows guys in my company, their jaws hit the floor when they saw that. How much does a comparable license cost for Windows 2000 Server? Last time my company bought a license like that for a Windows-based client, it was in the high four to low five figures, and didn't include the price of the server hardware. Right there, that's significant savings over using Microsoft stuff.
I can't really comment on the workstation pricing as I am not familiar with Microsoft's pricing. However, Apple is selling 5-license "family" packs of OS X for $199, which works out to $40 per seat. I can't imagine the business volume-license pricing for OS X being much different from that.
Moreover, the huge variety of apps availble under Windows are mostly NOT avaible under OS X.
Uh huh. And that's an issue how, when probably 85% of people who use a computer as part of their office job only use Microsoft Office (which is available for the Mac), a browser, and an e-mail client?
~Philly
Nobody sees a reason to upgrade Office anymore and switching to OpenOffice is a lot easier than switching to Linux altogether.
As described in Michael Robertson's most recent "Michael's Minute" newsletter (available to LindowsOS early adopters) which addressed this very topic, he comments that the antitrust settlement applies to only the top 20 OEMs. This includes Dell, Gateway, Micron, HP-Compaq, etc. Yet the vast majority of OEMs are beige box mom and pop clone builders, and they are not subject to these pricing provisions. Robertson suggests that if more of these OEMs sign up to be LindowsOS distributors (at a cost of $500/month), then they would probably also be eligible for the 50% discount on Microsoft OEM licenses. The selling point is that for $500/mo., you can sell an unlimited number of LindowsOS machines plus as many WindowsXP boxes as you can sell at half of what WinXP is costing you now.
Did that get your attention? Good. We'll get to that (misleading) headline in a moment.
i d=240429) entitled "Microsoft to promote open-source software in Japan". This time, they are promoting their "Shared Source Initiative". Which we all know is *not* the same as open source.
There is no discount, people. ZDNet had the story under a similar headline (http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-975399.html) with the misleading headline of "Microsoft targets defectors with discounts". If you read that article, it becomes clear that Open Value is an extended payment plan for bad old Licensing 6. Aside from stretching your payments out (thereby "lowering" them), you pay the same money as Licensing 6 plus interest, and have all the wonderful disadvantages of Licensing 6. The only discount at all is a potential 0% financing you might get if you drag your feet and throw a screaming temper fit. Licensing 6 saves you money (only in Ballmer's head) while it costs you more (minimum 33% to 107%).
The people they are targeting are the 66% of their customers smart enough not to fall for Licensing 6. Don't fall for this either, unless your only objection to Licensing 6 was the lack of a payment plan with an interest escape clause based on your temper throwing skills.
As for Microsoft promoting Open Source, that was the subject of an article by Japan Today (http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=4&
I don't know whether Microsoft is purposely sending out a lot of misleading press releases or we have had a really bad press day today, but that sure is a lot of misinformation being spread for just one day. Just goes to show, you can't believe everything you read, especially if it is based on an MS press release.
Chief Tsujimori: "I won't let you get away. I will never let you escape."
Godzilla elegantly lifts his tail skyward to give her the "finger", crashes it down on the water, and submerges.
"Godzilla X Megagiras", 2000
Nothing new here. Bill Gates will take as much money as you are dumb enough to give him.
Of course, you should give to Microsoft. It's kind of like a charity that benifits people in India with aids. Bill Gates and mother Therisa were good friends you know. Also benifited are the children of the USA! Previous previous licensing deals and last summer's anouncement to end accademic discounts tell the whole story of the gift that keeps giving.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Really goes to show how dumb you are...
Almost any huge company employs similar tactics when trying to win customers over from or keep current customers from switching to another vendor. As someone else mentioned, IBM does this with Oracle, HP with Dell, and vice versa and across many industries. It's nothing new. As far as a company claiming to be considering switching to Linux, it's like a game of poker- sometimes people bluff, sometimes they don't; sometimes their bluff is called, sometimes not.
It may sound too simple to you, but trust me- MS won't be fooled if some kid calls them up on the phone and says "Hello!!!1 I am pretty good haker and I was thinking of swichz0ring to Lindows OS you better give me VisualWarezStudeo.NET and WinXP (p stands for porn EHEHEH) for only $30 or else I will sooooo go to Leenucks!!"
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
I'm not willing to pay $99 for beta-open-source-software [especially considering the high quality of many other distros]
M$ knew this would make a stir but did not want to advertise any of those other distros. How many people do you know who even know what a distro is, much less can name several. M$ is pointing toward what it gathers is the least attractive alternative as a making themselves look better. They would never point them toward Debian, Red Hat, Suse, Caldera, Mandrake, Net/Free/OpenBSD. What they are pointing them to is a "discount" distro sold at Walmart that's doing everything it can to look and act like windows.
It does not matter. The cat's out of the bag and Microsoft is gonna get it. They really have pushed people too far and been, well, evil. They, not the government nor Slashdot nor the mass media, proved their nature with EULAs and pricing. Good riddiance M$.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Well, let's see. Microsoft first drove Digital Research's superior DOS to near-oblivion by allowing IBM XT buyers to choose MS-DOS for free or to pay for DR DOS via a very low priced bundle deal (read nearly free) with IBM.
When GeoWorks had a workable competitor to 16-bit Windows, MS had nearly-free DOS/Windows bundle deals with almost every OEM.
When MS charged for IE, before Windows 95, and Netscape troubled them, they incorporated it into the OS, so it was free as in without extra cost.
Intel is doing the same thing. When the heat was still on them just after their favorable anti-trust judgment, they allowed AMD to gain almost 5-per cent market share. Now that the heat from the Feds is off, and the heat from the investors is up, they are disallowing AMD market share by dropping prices so low AMD has to sell at a loss.
Every monopolist does this.
__
I have seen war. You will not like it.
Why should I care if my OS costs $200 or $100 or $0. The price is small compared to the length of time that you use it.
/.
Its more about ease of use, if the OS is difficult to set up and maintain, why would I use it just to save a few $.
That's why I use Linux, not because it saves me a $100, but because I find it annoys me less than windows.
I am much more productive with Lunix, that's why I have all this free time to post meaningless stuff on
...Microsoft shall charge each Covered OEM the applicable royalty for Windows Operating System Products as set forth on a schedule, to be established by Microsoft and published on a web site accessible to the Plaintiffs...
The Plaintiffs were the USDOJ. I am a US citizen and they were acting on my behalf, therefore I am a plaintiff. I want to see the price schedule.
Any lawyers out there looking for a challenge?
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. - George Orwell or George Bush?
As one of my friends who groks economics puts it, the first benefit of being a monopoly is that you can charge monopolistic prices, q.v. the 700% profit margins on Windows and Office. The links for those articles have already been posted, and I will not repost them. I think that the fact that Microsoft has to lower prices in response to Linux is one more piece of evidence of Linux's legitimacy as a competitor to Microsoft.
I am preaching to the choir, but so what.
Maybe by the time Longhorn comes out it'll be sitting on the shelves at Fry's for $74.99. Of course, Linux will still be cheaper, and come with more software (the hypothetical Longhorn is not expected to come with Office, IIS, etc)
what if xxx CEO states "we're currently contemplating upgrading our computer infrastructure. We are running some studies and are contemplating thee benifits of Linux as a possible replacement for windows."
this isn't a very good strategy at all on MS's part. Have a standard competiive price. If they see the competition is lower priced, price there or close. All this does is encourage CEO's to "think" they want Lindows, and then get steeply discounted MS products.
what happened to spell check? please decode the above comment to your best ability.
Since many businesses shall be tempted to try to obtain a discount by playing like they're seriously considering Linux. In playing this, some of them might actually consider it the first time and even get charmed by the idea (discounts from MSFT or not).
Also, the message that MSFT sends with this (now publicly known) policy is that they consider Linux to be an extremely dangerous competitor. This must put some companies to think.
To elaborate, and if memory serves me, which it does not do very well these days...
The definition for division is not defined independently-- division is defined as the inverse of multiplication. When you compute c=a/b, you are saying "find me a number c, so that c*b=a".
So when you compute 1/0, you are saying "find me a number x so that 0*x=1". Since any number multiplied by 0 is 0, no such number exists. So if memory serves 1/0 is said to be "undefined"
However, when you computer 0/9, you are saying "find me a number x so that 0*x=0". Now any number x can fulfill this condition, so 0/0 is said to be indeterminate
I believe that if you have a high school algebra problem where the answer comes out to n!=0/0 you can stop and answer "undefined" but if the answer comes out to 0/0 you still need to do some work to arrive at the final answer.
My god, I still remember this. I'm amazed and shall buy myself a beer.
What I take great comfort in is that for "the only real option I have", OpenOffice.org is a damn fine one.
Given the popularity of OpenOffice, and the up and coming KDE officeware project, where does microsoft stand to make any money?
By making a better office suite.
Openoffice has a long way to go before I, or my employer, or my employer's organization, or anyone my employer deals with can seriously consider it.
Given the right circumstnace, MS would "give windows away." Think about it: a 100% DRM media box, with a contractual deal that you pay $1 per file (or even $0.10 per file) that you add into the box...
Yeah, I could see them giving windows away.
I have not (yet) been targeted by the BSA folks, but if/when they call, here is my response:
We have been quietly migrating most of our servers to Linux, and we are evaluating a Linux desktop as well. When our CFO gets wind of the cost of complying with your little "audit", he will hit the roof. When the friendly folks in the IT department offer OSS products and the CFO evaluates the savings, Microsoft in our company will be DOA. If you're serious about auditing us, do it quickly. Otherwise, there will be no M$ products to audit.
If threatening to switch is what triggers the new M$ discounts, I figure it would be a suitable prescription for the BSA headache as well.