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Old and New Technology in the Land of None

Posted by michael on from the mosquito-coast dept.

ninthwave writes "The Guardian has this article on the adventures of piano tuners in the Amazon. I think it is a nice lesson in the age of technology to see the perceived hardships of using technology in areas where the natives are quite happy without. More impressive is the old wooden piano seems to survive better than the new synth but that is horse of a different colour."

12 of 227 comments (clear)

  1. Engineering is NOT high-tech by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Engineering DOESN'T HAVE TO BE high-tech.

    It only has to WORK WELL, with whatever is at hand.

    Inuktitut writing looks cryptic. Yet it was devised by whites, and designed to work well with the writing implements available to the inuit: bones and stones. They weren't forced to use the roman alphabet which they could not transcribe properly.

    Good design and engineering works by using what's available, not shoving down foreign and/or scarce technologies.

  2. The depressing part of the story by gosand · · Score: 5, Insightful
    An interesting read I guess, but I never really got the point of the story except that it was a heck of a challenge to get that piano delivered. I found this part of the story to be particularly sad though:

    But if any of us had been expecting half-naked, blowpipe-wielding savages, we were disappointed. The American missionaries who converted the tribe in the 1950s taught them Christian modesty, and they now favour shorts and T-shirts, largely supplied by visitors and aid agencies. The footwear of choice is the plastic flip-flop.

    A tribe that small, in that remote of a location, and Christians still feel the need to impose their religion on them. Quite sad.

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

    1. Re:The depressing part of the story by Planesdragon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A tribe that small, in that remote of a location, and Christians still feel the need to impose their religion on them. Quite sad.

      Hardly.

      Let's assume, for the sake of understanding the Christian missionaries, that they ARE right, and that life now and hereafter DOES get better if you're a Christian.

      Given _just that_, it makes sense to want to expose as many people as possible to their religion.

      Now, if we discard the "the Christians are right" assumption and simply look at it from a general standpoint, it STILL isn't "sad." It's not like they're requiring them to make pilgrimages to Rome (Muslim tradition) or give up temporal desires (Bhuddism).

      It's a form of charity, which, seeing as most of humanity thinks that clothing is a good thing, can be concluded as more than cultural self-interest and being real honest charity.

      Please, drop your anti-Christian/anti-religion bias. If everyone in the world had computers, you wouldn't call Linux (over BSD or the existing-and-never-upgraded-DOS) advocates "sad" now, would you?

    2. Re:The depressing part of the story by Greedo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't mean this confrontationally, but how do you know no one "made" them accept Christianity?

      The fact that someone even attempted to convert them, let alone that they succeeded, is bad enough. What was wrong with their belief system before that some missionary felt it their duty to "save" these "savages"? The history of missionary work is rife with "forced" conversions (Inquisition, anyone?). I realize this probably wasn't the case in the 1950's, but who knows.

      Those American missionaries also taught them "Christian modesty", which could be a thin disguise (in my tin-foil hat world) for "American hegemonic consumerism". Why else would they favour shorts and T-shirts, or ask for an electric keyboard.

      Again, missionary work isn't always about spreading the Good Word. In fact, it is based on the assumption that the indigenous Good Word wasn't Good Enough to start with.

      --
      Tuus crepidae innexilis sunt.
    3. Re:The depressing part of the story by fmaxwell · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Let's assume, for the sake of understanding the Christian missionaries, that they ARE right, and that life now and hereafter DOES get better if you're a Christian.

      Let's assume that the missionaries are wrong. Let's assume that the local beliefs are right. Let's further assume that the locals' conversion to Christianity angers their gods and causes those gods to put a curse on the village and the crops. Let's assume that the villagers then starve to death.

      You are going on the assumption that there is some reason to believe that Christianity is "right" and that local belief systems are "wrong." That's simply not the case.

      Now, if we discard the "the Christians are right" assumption and simply look at it from a general standpoint, it STILL isn't "sad."

      Yes, it is. These people probably had a rich cultural heritage and religious views that were passed down from generation to generation in stories. Losing that so that they can be added to the Catholic Church's list of conquests is very sad.

    4. Re:The depressing part of the story by corbettw · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Hardly."

      Hear, hear. Whenever people start shouting how Christians shouldn't convert people to their religion, and that it's wrong for them to do so, I'm always amazed that they are forgetting the central tenet of Christianity: only Christians go to Heaven. Everyone else, no matter how nice you are, goes to Hell. Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Wiccans, they're all bound for eternal damnation according to us Christians, because they reject the divinity of Christ.

      Given all that, it can only be considered cruel to not attempt to convert people (though I'll grant there are better, more civilized, ways of doing it than others...conversion at the point of a sword isn't quite what Jesus had in mind, I'm sure).

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    5. Re:The depressing part of the story by duck_prime · · Score: 3, Insightful
      The point is that an otherwise prospering culture has been given the shiny beads treatment. A couple simple rules to life: Diversity = good, Homogenity = death.
      How insultingly patronizing can you get? The Wai Wai are just as intelligent as we are; they are capable of picking parts of Western culture they want to adopt, and leaving the rest behind. Just like the Japanese. Hell, just like the West.

      Would you be so concerned if some people in, say, California became Buddhist? Aren't you sad that they've been hoodwinked by the mysteries of the East, and their diversity reduced? Give it a break.

      You seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that "all cultures are equal" and should be cherished equally. Forget it. These people's precious culture didn't invent writing for them, or medicine, or clothing, or Christianity, but guess what? They like all that stuff. They want it. Don't ghettoize these poor folks into a nice little illiterate culture zoo just so you can be happy that "diversity is being protected". Fuck that. I say offer every last fucking tribe on Earth a refrigerator, some good shoes with arch support, and a writing system if they don't have one.

      Stop treating the Wai Wai as children that you have to protect from our poisonous culture. Give them the respect and dignity that they deserve, and let them make their own choices.

      One last thing... you say "Diversity = good, Homogenity = death". Please clarify. I understand how that works out in agriculture, or heck, even population genetics, but I don't see the relevance to cultural choices. Not trying to troll here, I'm trying to understand what you're getting at.
  3. And I bet those "primitives" take good care of it? by saskboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I wonder about people when they consider a people who care for music, and treat an instrument properly "savages", yet the piano in my college residence is ruined with misuse and ugly graphiti carving.

    Who are the savages? Do people in the Amazon write on public pianos too? "For a good time call Zanthia." --- "Hey Zanthia, wanna have a good time!"

    --"NO. And stop calling for me!"

    --
    Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
  4. How sad... by tswinzig · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The American missionaries who converted the tribe in the 1950s taught them Christian modesty, and they now favour shorts and T-shirts, largely supplied by visitors and aid agencies. The footwear of choice is the plastic flip-flop.

    No comment necessary?

    --

    "And like that ... he's gone."
  5. Re:Not a hard choice by Greedo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I was expecting an interesting read about how this tribe had taught themselves to play a piano, improvising melodies and chord progressions based on their indigenous musical heritage. Coming up with unorthodox techniques, etc..

    Instead, it's the story of a bunch of British folks playing Beatles songs with the villagers, who have been Catholicized and are wearing American t-shirts and plastic flip-flops.

    How sad. And mildly offensive.

    (Oh ... taking a piano into the jungle is interesting. Taking a Korg is dumb. IMHO.)

    --
    Tuus crepidae innexilis sunt.
  6. They're people, not savages. by forii · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why do you assume that the people who live in the Amazon are not able to choose their clothing/lifestyles for themselves? You may wish that some people stay nice and "natural" (perhaps you mean "primitive"?) but I'm sorry that these people who live in the Amazon are probably not as interested in living as museum displays for your pleasure.

    1. Re:They're people, not savages. by ndinsil · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Every good Slashdotter should know the Prime Directive!

      Seriously, although a strict hands-off approach like the fictional directive is probably not a good idea in these circumstances, rapidly changing a culture can cause serious harm that's often not recognized until later, and usually can't be undone. And missionaries have a long history of carelessness and even intentional destruction.

      Case in point: they used to be able to support themselves; but they've been taught to cover themselves with western clothing that they must get from elsewhere, creating a need that never existed before. How does that do them any good in any way?