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SBC-Yahoo Partnership Cuts User Privacy
simeonbeta2 writes "The San Francisco Chronicle is running a story about Pac Bell's dsl partnership with Yahoo. Initially touted as a new service, Pac Bell is apparently now mailing existing dsl customers to urge them to install additional client software that will enable 'incredible new features and services'. While SBC's privacy policy is not excessively intrusive, use of the new software is covered by Yahoo's privacy policy, which is just a bit more Orwellian." The story's a little overblown - Yahoo's privacy policy reads that way because they offer financial services and the like, where they may well need financial information from you to provide the service. The reporter needed to investigate this new software DSL users are being asked to install, and find out what sort of user tracking it enables.
when Prodigy was bought out by SBC. They went on and on about no changes, same service, etc. Then I started getting almost weekly mails with cd's in nice bright colorful cases urging me to install my new SBC Yahoo! Dial software to enable new worlds of features! Of course I didn't because I just kept my Prodigy account around for the old email address and never dialed in, so what was the point of installing new software?
;) There's something to be said for smaller ISP's...
Finally they started bombarding me with emails that extolled the virtues of the new software. My guess is when you install it then it checks you off on the master list on the server that you installed it, nevermind if you never needed to or didn't care at all. Finally after trying to register on the web site and failing miserably, I just called and cancelled the account. And ya know what? My spam amount is down 95% since then
"Christ what a design! I could eat a handful of iron filings and PUKE a better emergency pump than that!"
I got a flyer in the mail from SBC/Pacbell/Yahoo about
this new service. I have dsl via pppoe on a linux
box running as a vpn router, and I use mozilla/phoenix
as my browser.
I tried going to the web page on the flyer, but it
just doesn't do anything.
I wonder what happens if I never sign up for this
yahoo service? Guess we'll see eventually.
I have SBC DSL and haven't installed any of their software. I am just using a Lynksys router. I would never install any of their software.
FoundNews.com - get paid to blog.,
no -- they can watch everything you do without
you installing special software. The other end
of your cable modem hooks right into their headend
servers. If they wanted to, it's simple to watch
the traffic there. Nothing you can do about it.
Great...so all a writer has to do to make a name for itself in the geek community is yell "LOSS OF PRIVACY! and they come running to see what it is and defending the piece. I just wish it was not so easy, but it is. /. it is like someone taking a knife to a guys balls. Nice to see the write up saw that called the SFC out on it. I wish more were like him and took an honest look at internet use and how we need to balance out the commerce uses with it's awesome ability to share info.
Seriously folk, some measures to protect privacy need to be taken, but every single time you read about this on
Please flame me. I am in a bad enough mood without having to put up with the "Everything should be free!!!!" rants. If yahoo is using a EULA to protect privacy for my stock transactions, then I like it. If they are using the EULA to track to my surfing habits (like every other ISP does not or cannot already) then to hell with them and hope they enjoyed sexwithrats.com.
War having a brain.
Isn't RASPPPOE Windows only? Anyways I've been getting bombarded with Yahoo/SBC emails urging me to go and download this new Yahoo software, but at least one SBC email stated the Yahoo software wasn't required for ADSL, obviously, so only idiots are going to go and download this shit. Besides my line is hooked into my FreeBSD machine running NAT and built in kernel support for PPPOE (*cough*can Linux do that yet?*cough*). So Yahoo can keep the spyware, and if SBC wants to force the issue I will just get a cable connection instead.
This software is optional for the moment, but according to my boss, within a year it will be required in order to keep your DSL line. They are waiting for the macintosh version, since about 10% of their customers are mac freeks. When they had meetings with my boss, they talked about how they can't make any money (yeah, right!) unless they force everyone to install this software so they can sell all your private data, and they mentioned that linux users were criminals who only used hacker software. Very clueless, but my boss smells $$$ and he thinks this will be great This software is remotely upgradeable, and later they will add specific modules to do things like examine quicken files and send them the results, scan all the email headers in outlook and help them compile buddy lists/friends&family lists, and will monitor all instant messenger traffic. They will then combine all this data with their customer records, phone numbers, social security numbers, and allow marketing companies like ours to mine the data for narrow-target campaigns. My job is to create custom software to pull out relationship data (parents, brothers, sisters, cousins, employers) to drive personalized mailshots. They will have headings like "Your mother, Mary, thought you would like to buy..." They are also going to sell the data to insurance companies so if you IM your best friend about your auto accident or doctors checkup, then someone will know about it. They also said this is perfect for fighting terrorism, and waved the flag a lot.
Yeah,
I know, most of the first level tech support people are morons. However, sometimes, if you confuse them enough and give evasive enough answers, they'll let you through to a higher level person if you ask. Some of the higher level people actually know stuff. My roommate managed to get all the way through to one of their sysadmins (we have problems establishing reliable UDP connections to some ISP's, but only if it goes through one link, and they were able to confirm where the problem was). So, the answer is, confuse the hell out of the first level people by talking about networking protocols and you might actually get through to a real sysadmin.
There's no sig like SIGSEG
I was involved in a DSL project in Japan that used a piece of third-party software that was, essentially, a program that would examine your system and create a file that contained things like OS, Memory, CPU, Disk Size, monitor type, and anything else like this that it could find out.
This file was supposed to sit there until the DSL provider requested it behind the scenes. The purpose? Database Marketing. By knowing how old your system is, they can target you for new system sales. By knowing how small your monitor is, they can target you for sale of a bigger one. And so on.
I left before I heard about successful launch. So I don't know if it ever went live. But do _NOT_ for one minute believe that there is "nothing to this kind of report." I've seen it. I can't say for sure that this is, in fact, what the Yahoo!DSL in the US is up to, but let's say it would not surprise me.
best web host ever
Same goes for my OpenBSD router, FreeBSD desktop... and eventual AmigaOne/Pegasos. ;)
...it's just that SBC's political practices suck, on their quest to become the next monopoly.
Seriously though, having just jumped at the chance to "merge" my account, the additional software is just a mess of IE/Windows addons to create the illusion of AOL-like integration. SBC is betting that non-technical users will appreciate this (Yahoo! Messenger, cute shortcuts/search buttons, a spiffy homepage-portal that lets you access the little X-Drive-like 10mb "briefcase" they give you, etc), and technical users will fling the frisbees out the window and keep on truckin'.*
*Truckin' in the sense of performing the online account merge and ignoring the add-on "experience." You get the benefit of webmail access to your mail account and national dialup, and all the other freebie crap (online Britannica, etc) they're offering.
See, the interesting thing is that both SBC and Yahoo! actually have half a brain in producing the services they offer- SBC doesn't bitch anyone out for SSHing into their home machines or running servers, and Yahoo actually provides instructions on configuring a real mail client on the webmail page...
Wow. I've had exactly the opposite experience. Fast, effective help. No odd looks about running linux. The installer was actually pretty interested, and asked for info on configuring the network settings so he could help less experienced linux users.
> Yahoo's privacy policy reads that way because
> they offer financial services and the like, where
> they may well need financial information from you
> to provide the service.
Why can't they have different policies for different services?
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
Maybe digital EULAs could do the same. They could have checkboxes that would change the installation process, maybe leaving parts out, or adding parts, or changing things like expiry dates, depending on what the user agreed to, with background logic creating a balance of acceptable terms for the software developer. A DEULA could be returned to the software developer via the web to automate a custom fee structure.
Right now, they are, at least in every instance I've found them, monolithic documents with a single, giant checkbox. Perhaps the future EULA will be a tree heirarchy of optional clauses.
Thinking the idea might be useful as software becomes more and more a mix of commercial and free software, with their possibly conflicting licenses.
Just an idea.. Maybe a bad one since it would keep lawyers employed.
_KhlER3L
The reporter needed to investigate this new software DSL users are being asked to install, and find out what sort of user tracking it enables.
David Lazarus is a columnist for the Chronicle's business pages. Michael's point may be good but it's important to realize that the writer isn't under the same sort of obligations that a reporter would be.
And you know what the great thing is? when you call the CPNI hotline to opt-out, the guy ends it by trying to sell you 'value added services'!
"...its up to the users of the dsl service...[]...to read the policies of the company."
Uh, not exactly. I have had SBC DSL for just over a year now, previously it was speakeasy - before that northpoint/covad.
I moved to PacBell DSL when they installed a CO across the street from my house, and they offered higher speeds off their new equipment than whatever speakeasy DSL equipment my line was previously provisioned on....
anyway - I also happen to have and use a yahoo email account. I have had this email account since 1996 or 1997.
I am now seeing a redirection to a FULL SCREEN advertisment from SBC & Yahoo when I log into my account from my home machine.
Basically they check the IP thats logging into the yahoo account - and if its an SBC provisioned IP - they first redirect you to this AD. It sucks.
Yes you can close the AD pretty quickly, but its still bugs me for many many reasons here are some:
1) I never signed up for Yahoo/SBC DSL. So I dont want the ads that people who signed up for this package are subjected to. *Especially* since they signed up at a lower rate than I pay because of the promotion. If they are going to show me these ADs I should pay the same as the Yahoo/SBC DSL subscribers.
2) My account on both SBC/PacBell DSL and Yahoo Mail PREDATES any of these policies - and in some cases predates the *existance* of SBC-PacBell as a merged company. I agreed to certain things when i signed up years ago for Yahoo, but apparently since the laws are so fucked up - if you agree to a contract these days - you also agree that the other party can make any changes, any time for any reason to any part of the contract you agree to - and you are not required to re-examine any terms and re-agree to anything. That's bull shit.
3) There is no switch for me to turn this option off - I wasnt asked if I wanted it - I cant "opt-out". The way I feel is that I should show up to their offices and hit them in the face with a shovel. They didnt opt-out of the shovel in the face program I run.
4) It is pretty much fact that this type of forced marketing doesnt work too well. Show me any users who actually read the ad - and show me the click-through numbers on these ads. Show me the *actual* conversion ratio. I'd bet its not even enough to make the whole effort worth while.
Basically, I would like to see the Yahoo agreement I entered into way back in 1997. I also want to see the SBC agreement I entered from last year - and I want to see if they allow for this sort of thing. I doubt that in '97 the agreement I actually clicked "I Agree" on says that I agree to bend over and get fucked in the ass by any affilate Yahoo ever decides to every do any sort of marketing arangement with.
so its not as simple as saying "its up to the user to read the policies that they agree to with any company"
i swear this is not an "in soviet russia" post.
around here (l.a.), sbc-yahoo has all these billboards and radio commercials and their slogan is "internet that logs on to you" (yes, this is too stupid to make up). their website indicates that they've now changed that to "internet at the speed of you", perhaps realizing that having the internet log on to you may not be the ideal user experience.
but this may explain their privacy issues.
We just in the past couple of months switched from AT&T cable to Pacbell DSL which within a month was saying we had to fill out their forms re: Yahoo and this wasn't such an issue. What bothers me is I've already done the Yahoo thing and they're still sending mail to our house advertising this crap.
Worse yet, we just recently had our router up and die and I didn't have the password handy so I called their tech support. Part of the reason we switched to the DSL service was because they were "router friendly" and would let my household all connect without freaking out and wanting $10/head or what-have-you. In this latest call I asked the guy what the password was, mentioned that it was so I could put the data into the new router. As soon as I said the word "router" he told us flatly "we don't support routers, you'll have to talk to your router manufacturer". A previous tech support guy had even suggested what brand of router to buy and now *this* guy stonewalls a question about account information because I said the word "router".
If they change policy's they could at least be courteous about it. Better yet their "free self nistall" cost $500 for "line checks". Now we forfeit $500 if we want to back out and sign up with someone who won't pull this crap.
I just found out there's no such thing as the real world. It's just a lie you've got to rise above. - John Mayer