Slashdot Mirror
Starcraft
In his book, Unidentified Flying Objects: Starcraft, Der Voron has offered an extremely well-researched and detailed report of incidents that have occurred all across the globe, from many different eras. Ancient writings may have been the first indication that 'we are not alone,' and Der Voron cites several of these sources as examples. Such statements originate from many different countries and in different continents, from ancient times to contemporary, from Indian tales of events that took place in the wilds of Kipling country to experiences related by a German artillery gunner during World War Two. Reports of 'unidentified contact with objects of undetermined origins' have been filed in government offices from the plains of South America to the fjords of Norway and the steppes of Asia.
Highly annotated and illustrated with fascinating examples of starship models and their possible makeup, armaments and defensive mechanisms (according to some data belonging to U.S. government research on alien starcraft), this ambitious work offers a wealth of documented information on not only Starcraft, otherwise known as 'Flying Saucers,' but the types of extraterrestrials that have flown them. All aliens are not created equal, as their many varied depictions and origins in historical writings attest. The author's use of a plethora of written documentation ably enhances his description of personal civilian and military accounts of those who have had some kind of interaction with these objects.
Also explored in great detail is the intelligence of our sea life, mainly as that intelligence relates to dolphins and the octopi of our deepest oceans, and how they, in turn, can be used in the search for extended knowledge of the universe surrounding our planet. How and why these creatures have gained such highly specialized communication skills and how it is that an octopus can experience an event and not only remember it, but learn from it, is explored, and commented upon as it relates to man's search for a higher intelligence.
While replete with scientific data, terms and information, this work by Der Voron is nevertheless highly readable and extremely illuminating for the common reader with no prior knowledge of extraterrestrial existence, while at the same time it provides hours of reading material and documentation to keep the more knowledgeable busy.
Der Voron's conscientious effort to dig deep for his sources shows in his detailed reports, and his data gathering and willingness to share that information is a challenging endeavor in which he has aptly succeeded. The existence of extraterrestrials is an immensely interesting topic, one that will be explored for years to come, and this work can provide an invaluable asset to any stargazer's bookshelf.
If this review intrigued you, you may want to see this interview with the author of this book in Weekly Universe. You can purchase Unidentified Flying Objects: Starcraft from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.
Perhaps it's just me being hung over or too lazy to read the actual story, but I started to think I'd see something about the Zerg.
Starcraft? Can he use that?
A Google search on this guy reveals that he's just another wacko looking for conspiracy theories.
an octopus can experience an event and not only remember it, but learn from it
;)
Off topic, yes, but I wonder how they know this? What cognitive research has been carried out on octopi? Octopus-Ink blot tests, I'd imagine
Also, how do they know that goldfish only have a three-second memory span? Do they observe goldfish watching MTV all the time?!
It's not the aliens that are going to be the problem, it's that our rebel leader will sell out one of our psychic operatives and leave her to be captured by the aliens.
Bah! Protoss rulez! :)
Especially the guy who goes "my life for hire" when you click on him.
"Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it." -- Linus Torvalds
That couldn't be the case; it would violate the prime directive!
In that google search, there's a handful of reviews posted on other sites. All the reviews are by this same person (Denise M. Clark). Is this guy the writer of the book, posting reviews under another name to try and get some publicity?
Assumes people are genetically engineered by Aliens.
RIIIIGHT, okay pass the pills, pass the needles and pass on.
Next on Slashdot "Creationism explained", "Why computers are actually alive" and "Einstein, what a moron".
News for nerds, or bollocks for brains ?
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
Don't forget about killer whales, if we don't work hard to ensure their continued existence as a species, aliens may send a probe out looking for them...
Swannie
:q!
If scientists are having heated debates about the existence of aliens, and not about more likely problems of the world, then I'd be a little worried.
Well, heck, how can you argue with impeccable logic like that. And lots of things did happen. Sun rose, sun set, grass grew, leaves fell. Obvious signs of alien visitors. The signs were right in front us all the time.
Are we alone?
"If you find yourself struggling with loneliness, you're not alone. And yet you are alone. So very alone.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
It certainly sounds like "My life for hire". Kinda appropriate too, considering you have to pay to construct those little soldiers.
"Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it." -- Linus Torvalds
There are markedly fewer alien sightings.
What makes us so fucking special that someone would pack the whole brood into the starcruiser and trudge all the hell way over to this 'hood to gawk at a bunch of monkeys?
1) The guy sounds like a sub-atomic particle. Muon, Voron...
2) He names his book after a popular video game containing alien characters. Coincidence?
3) In the book, he assumes things that aren't known to be true, such as "Aliens exist". This allows him to avoid things like, eh, facts.
4) It was reviewed on Slashdot, home of unbiased content!
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
Remember "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof".
...richie - It is a good day to code.
Clearly, we need a new icon for this type of story. What picture would work for "you've got to be fucking kidding".
The quote "Something had to have happened in these places and many others throughout the globe to engender such speculation and argument" is a perfect example of the logical fallacy at work here. This is what is meant by "begging the question."
This review could have been made much shorter by just quoting a book review that has been (perhaps apocryphally) said to have been written by Abraham Lincoln: "For people who like this sort of thing, this is the sort of thing that they like."
highly readable and extremely illuminating for the common reader with no prior knowledge of extraterrestrial existence
... make me ill. How can we go from the scientific proposition that extraterrestrial life and exists to the unscientific speculation and leap of faith demanded in these volumes?
In other words read this book, and you'll know ET exists, too.
I have no doubt there are UFO's. I think it's far more than likely there is life "out there." But conspiracy theories about simmering gov't schemes to keep us from the truth
Also explored in great detail is the intelligence of our sea life
OK, there's a creative twist. Methinks they needed more pages to call it a book.
The author's use of a plethora of written documentation ably enhances his description of personal civilian and military accounts...
"Plethora" actually means excess or superabundance. Here the plan appears to be that if you pile enough of it on...
Forgive me for skepticism, but speculations like these are not a whit different from theories that man did not land of the Moon or that President Bush orchestrated 9/11, and so on. They sound kind of interesting, suggestive evidence can be shown, but the web of speculation leads nowhere. I'm tired of con artists like this.
I emphasize that these people are not mere wackos, if they are wacko at all. They are scam artists who do not deserve your money. Visit the good old library instead, or drink deep of the wonderful nonsense available for free on the Web.
You'll also enjoy this similarly excellent piece.
How did this get categorized as Space news? Until there is hard evidence that UFOs actually exist, then it will forever be viewed as a fragment of a person's imagination.
Even if UFOs really exist, what makes people so inclined to believe that they are chariots of alien civilizations? And while we're going paranormal, why can't we consider alternative reasoning such as UFOs could possibly be ghosts from the future. Do ghosts have to be from the past to be considered as ghosts in the sense of the word?
However, like most people I think that a more logical explanation for UFO sightings is that it is some glitch in the sky... strange manifestation of star/sunlight, mini auroras, heck even mutant glow-in-the-dark birds for all it could be.
Seemed more feasable if compared to a Starcraft theory IMHO.
Welley Corporation - SLM Scammers
The only motivation I can figure out is that the book shares part of its name with a popular RTS. This is more off topic than our usual off topics.
The ancient astronaut theory, though not DEBUNKED, has often rested in shaky evidence, assumptions, and outright hoaxes. The Dropa hoax being a classic one - and toss in Strichin's bizarre mutilation of mythology, or Von Daniken's questionalbe ideas . . . the support for it isn't enthusing.
A good look at some of the Fortean Times issues will go a long way into putting these theories in perspective.
What's next, one of David Icke's books here? Bring on the Reptillians!
"The Sage treasures Unity and measures all things by it" - Lao Tzu
I can use this Starcraft book to hold up that rickety table in my Startcraft RV. That will keep the PC still while I play my Starcraft game. This is just what I needed so I could enjoy the ultimate Starcraft gaming experience!
Life moves pretty fast; if you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it. -FB
From a dozen years ago, in bio class I think. Really amazing.
Now, what I really wanted was some footage and nervous response from the perspective of the hapless crustacean. Can you imagine? No! No! Go away! Argggghhhhhhh!
"the author claims that modern man was genetically engineered by aliens"
If I'd engineered most of the people today, I'd be embarrased to admit it.
A bone of contention, in that there isn't any. As Sagan said, all it takes to prove this is one artifact -- doesn't even have to be magical hi-tech, just having a different isotopic balance than terrestrial would be proof of extra-terrestrial origin. But in the thousands of claimed "contacts", not one single artifact has been left -- not an alien cigarette butt or Coke can. It's obviously a massive conspiracy.
Fucking kooks like this is why real SETI gets such a bad rap.
The poster claims:
> it's easy to make jokes about Area 51 or Roswell, there is certainly a basis for those jokes and rumors. Something had to have happened in these places and many others throughout the globe to engender such speculation and argument
Lots of people speculate and argue that Elvis is still alive. Something must have happened to engender such speculation and argument. Therefore I have proven that Elvis is not dead (or is undead).
- For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat
I always thought it sounded like "My wife for hire."
Feminism is the radical notion that women are people.
The accepted non-lunatic-ufo-watcher explanation of Area 51 is that it's an Air Force testing grounds for top secret new aircraft - the next generations of things like the SR-71. I believe slashdot had some coverage not that long ago about the unveiling (finally) of the Aurora test craft, which matches many of the "spacecraft" description from Area 51 watchers. Aurora is nifty, but it's clearly not alien inspired, just human engineered.
11*43+456^2
The obvious sequel to this book will be:
Starcraft: Brood Wars
Zergling Rush!!!
...I was having a discussion with an intelligent, but credulous acquaintance who had just read a book by someone from one of the "respectable" UFO organizations (APRO or NICAP, I don't remember which).
He was extremely impressed by a very detailed report on some UFO fragments that had been shown to be some kind of metal of such extreme purity that it could not possibly have originated on Earth. The metallurgical tests had been conducted by a respected scientist in some university in South America.
I was arguing that with UFO reports, you cannot rule out the possibility that they were just made up in whole cloth. He thought this was unlikely. I suggested that we try to contact the scientist who had done the tests and find out what he had to say.
Of course, the book itself was written in a popular style without any formal citations or references you could follow up... just a line or two mentioning "Professor so-and-so in the Department of Metallurgy at the University of Sao Paulo," or wherever it was.
Well, we were at the University of Wisconsin, which has a fine library, and with a little investigation we found that the library actually had _the faculty/student directory_ for that university, and it was only a couple of years old.
Needless to say there was no listing for the cited "scientist," and, indeed, no department that seemed to match the department in which he was supposed to have worked.
My friend was shaken, but not convinced. After all, this wasn't some fly-by-night organization we were dealing with, this was APRO. (Or NICAP).
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Look closely: Der Voron. DER VORON. Is that a HUMAN name? By the Great Sceptre of Nebulon, what does it take with your species?
You'd think that you would have clued in with Erik Van Daniken, but, noooooo. SO WE'RE TRYING AGAIN. And we'll KEEP trying until somebody down here finally gets it right!
Look, I'll spell it out for you: The whole reason for the secrecy is... oops, boss is coming...sorry, got to go.
LOOK TO THE SKIES. WAIT FOR THESE SIGNS: YIELD. DO NOT WALK. DEER CROSSING.
It's supposed to be completely automatic, but actually you have to press this button.
I forgot to say: this was in the seventies...
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
You know, no matter how you run those numbers, I keep wondering why anyone would bother to visit us, even if they could? What's here for them?
That's particularly so if we assume that the speed of light cannot be exceeded. Given that, I'd be interested in seeing some speculation on the average distance between spacefaring worlds. Great distances between these worlds would dampen chances for discovery, much less travel.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
Amazingly close to der Moron.
If Denise Clark is this guy's pseudonym, he should learn from Jon Katz, and just post reviews or treatises of oddball logic under his own name. Before long, he will have legions of devoted fans.
-- Len
I'll just stick to real, factual intellectual works that will actually expand my horizons about science and astronomy. Among the books I own are "The Demon Haunted World", "Cosmos", and "Billions and Billions by Carl Sagan - "A Breif History of Time" by Hawking, and "Black Holes and Time Warps" by Kip Thorne. Why anyone would waste their time on such utter non-sense and psuedo science is beyond me.
Last year I caught a Nature special (or something) regarding the Indoenesian Mimic Octopi that caught my attention like no other creature ever had before!
It's capable of mimicking a crab, sea snake, flounder, lionfish, and other species have other abilities. Absolutely floored me.
I think that "IN UNDERSEA INDONESIA, OCTOPI GENETICALLY MANUPULATE THE EXTRA-TERRESTRIALS."
I hate Grammar Nazi's
Is it the wicked extraterrestrial tyrant Xenu?
Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy: The Universe.
"This isn't a study in computer science, its a study in human behavior"
For as long as man has realized that there are boundaries he can see, but can not effectively explore, his imagination has run amok and placed all manner of fanciful creations into them. "dragons be here" can be found on unexplored maritime areas on old maps, yeti signs are found in impassible mountain ranges, and sirens in the ocean depths.
This doesn't mean that there aren't monsters in these areas, mind you, but rather than man's propensity to create them in his mind usually results in more monsters than actually exist. The unexplored regions of space today are no different than the middle of the atlantic 400 years ago.
Egad, this woman does like this book. No fewer than 13 reviews: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 (repeated here and here), 14?.
My first thought was the Denise M. Clark was a shill, but if she is, she's incompetant. By using the same name over and over, it becomes easy to track her down. My next thought was that she was a UFO nut trying to spread the word. Possible, but she has reviewed many other books.
My new theory is that she's desperately trying for fame through the unlikely technique of publishing reviews on as many sites as possible. (Check out her web page, "The on-line home of author/reviewer Denise M. Clark". Either that, or she's a space alien here to prepare us for use as slaves and food for her hideous grey masters. If it's the former, she's wasting our time. If it's the latter, I suppose that would could as news for nerds.
Search 2010 Gen Con events
Unidentified Flying Objects: Starcraft
Unidentified? Is this guy on crack? Just click on the Stargate and it says exactly what kind of Protoss units you can create.
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
Well, one of these is her website,, ("The on-line home of author/reviewer Denise M. Clark -- If you love action in your romance, this is the place for you!") where you find she has some kind of "editorial services" in that you can get her or her friends to review your book.
And an article on the book is at an even weirder site, weeklyuniverse.com, with some extracts on how aliens genetically engineered Cromagnons. (They must have, because there is no missing link!).
He is also trying to sell the concept of a film at this address
Why don't we just ask him what he is up to? His email address is: dervoron@linkeseite.zzn.com
weren't they supposed to make some ufo-related documents public a few weeks ago, I read something like that on slashdot, anyone got a link?
Aiur is their home planet.
And the unit name is the Zealot.
Magius_AR
If UFOs/aliens exist, prove it. Show me the "starcraft". Show me the alien. Give me the proof, and then I'll believe it. Science is not based on secondhand accounts and shady eyewitness reports (at least, not the good, solid science). As another poster pointed out, using this same logic, I could prove Elvis is still alive:
(1) There are eyewitness accounts of Elvis walking around after his death.
(2) QED, Elvis is alive.
That's ridiculous. That's not science, and that's not how human knowledge progresses.
"UFO-ology" and "cryptozoology" don't deserve to have "ology" attached to them.
She sat at the window watching the evening invade the avenue.
Well, that would explain a lot about my family....
... *sigh* Since I've admitted this on /. and around the net before, I might as well make a fool of myself and admit it again. In September of 1994 I saw a silver disc shaped object in broad daylight perform outrageous maneuvers. Yes, I was completely sober. No, they weren't lights in the sky. No, it wasn't a balloon, helicopter, or airplane at an odd viewing angle.
/. And honestly, I think there would be value in trained University scientists conducting a new investigation into this phenomena, preferably privately funded. I have no idea what this is about, but now I think something worthy of investigation is going on.
What I saw:
At the time I had just moved to Cincinnati and was driving back from a flea market with two other friends. We had just stopped at a gas station to fill up the van in which we were driving. The driver (a female) stepped inside to pay the bill while my other friend went inside to take a leak. I stepped outside and walked away from the van (and gas pumps) to smoke a butt.
Looking past the road was a large grass covered crest which dropped down and then much farther back came up into a tree covered hill/mountain. I noticed what I first thought was a silver balloon, about the size of a quarter of my thumbnail at arms length, bobbing and spinning sort of, just hovering. As I was watching it began to descend, wavering like a leaf, coming down back and forth very slowly. It was at this point that I thought that it was behaving strangely, so I watched closer. It abruptly stopped and hovered for a bit longer. Then it jumped toward me (determined by it growing larger in my field of view to maybe half to two thirds my thumbnail), jumped straight up at high speed, and then abruptly crossed from the left to the right of my horizon in a large arc, diminishing in size as it moved until it disappeared from a point into nothingness (which I take to mean it moved farther away from me as it crossed the sky). This happened *very* fast - a second or two, no more. What struck me about the last abrupt movement is that it didn't appear to accelerate at all. Since I must assume it behaved under the laws of physics, this means the acceleration was so fast and at such a high G-force, that it happened outside the limitations of my awareness - which would certainly have crushed any occupants inside.
Since I have only one pair of eyes, and the object was far enough away to be focused at infinity, there's no way to determine distance or size. I have NO FUCKING IDEA what I saw. No one else saw it and I have no way to "prove" that what I saw is anything but a mirage or some other visual illusion and/or artifact of the eye. Like all eye witness accounts (whether in court or in circumstances such as these) lack of corroboration should equal disbelief on the reader's part. I would only request that those who reply to this at least assume I am telling the truth about the events I witnessed, even if you believe that what I saw is some sort of visual illusion or misinterpretation of the events.
All I will say is that I believe I witnessed a physical object move in ways I've never seen anything else move, prosaic aircraft or not. I did not see any occupants inside the object, nor was I "abducted" or any of that shit. This statement does NOT mean I believe aliens are buzzing our skies. But it has decidedly shaken what was once my opinion that UFO's aren't even worth discussion time, never mind scientific analysis. I'm quite bothered by what I saw, and more to the point I'm bothered by the instant assumption that those who see these kinds of things are a kook for simply having viewed and publicly stated their accounts. Which is why I'm reluctant to post this. I bet I'm not alone. But WTF, this is just
JMO,
--Maynard
I'm all supportive of the possibiliy of Extra-Terrestrial life.
However, this guy really doesn't go about things too intelligently. As, soon as I read the following quote in the post I realised this is a total waste of time.
"Something had to have happened in these places and many others throughout the globe to engender such speculation and argument."
So let me get this straight... because a few people started a rumor about area51, and others promptly fell victim to these rumors.. that means SOMETHING must of happened? Right...
Are you telling me because so many religions believe in god, that this means there must be some sort of god?
Like anything else, our race feels lonely... some people NEED to believe in god, just like they need to believe in aliens. It's not about proof, or science. It's about hope.
I (and others) are simply comforted by the idea that there are other curious civilizations out there, that are alone the way we are.
--Zuchini
That's a minor modification of Fermi's paradox. The great physicist Enrico Fermi observed that an intelligent race should be able to colonize a galaxy-sized region of space in around 1 to 10 million years, even without faster-than-light travel.
The argument runs like this: one planet sends colonies to several neighboring star systems, then each of those colonizes their neighbors, and so on. The region of colonization expands cubically with time (because the radius of colonization is directly proportional to time).
Fermi said, since 1-10 million years is very short with respect to the age of the galaxy, we should see evidence of intelligence everywhere. So, if intelligent life is common, where is everybody?
We can make all kinds of arguments like: alien intelligence leaves no trace of itself, isn't interested in us, or isn't interested in exploration. However, the one data point we have (ourselves) is very bad at cleaning up after itself, isn't shy at all about going after resources wherever they exist, and is very keen on exploration. There's no reason why other intelligence would be significantly different.
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
I have no doubt there are UFO's.
If you mean UFO's like, "hey, what the fuck is that dot in the sky?" I agree.
If you mean UFO's like, "wow, look at that tractor beam pulling up Homer Simpson, no wait, too tractor beams," then I have to wonder how you have NO DOUBT they exist.
I mean, there is no legitimate evidence whatsoever.
"And like that
Either that, or she's a space alien here to prepare us for use as slaves and food for her hideous grey masters
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
My cube. My friend. My solace. My prison.
You've not enough minerals...
There is another special that shows an octopus navigating a maze on a daily basis. The octopus gets faster and faster each day because he remembers the layout. So the scientists then place moving gates and walls. The octopus quickly learns the timing of these to enable himself to get to the end of the maze (and to the food) in as fast a way as possible.
Octopus are damn smart. Compared with Kia birds they may be the next most underestimated animal on the planet.
--- I do not moderate.
ST:TNG had an episode where Picard went traipsing off looking into microscopic anthropology, or something like that, that his professor was researching when he died.
Picard runs into Klingons, Romulans, etc. and they have a showdown in a cave where Picard and Beverly plug a chunk of junk into the tricorder that then produces a video from our "parents" who "seeded" our galaxy with DNA to start all of the races in ST.
So, now that it's all cleared up, what is this guy trying to come up with now that Roddenberry didn't "discover" first?
Coldmist
Don't steal. The government hates competition.
Klass is an idiot. He makes small cash off books and other products his peddles. The real proof is online.
What I have noticed is that most people who publish on this subject are too polarized. It is hard to get the full story.
I think this comes about because mostly extreme statements and opinions sell. A conclusion-free book is not "compelling". Therefore, either you paint everybody as a saucer-happy hullicinator, or propose top-secret cover-ups if you want to sell books. The skeptics over-emphasize the silliness of "bad" cases, and the believers over-hype the bad cases. Both seem to ignore the best cases for some reason. Probably because they are kind of boring in comparison, dispite being better documented or better observed (more independent witnesses).
The only author who seems to take a more balanced view is Jacques Vallee. But even he seems to speculate too much, having some funky pet theories.
I think the subject deserves serious-minded scientific attention. The military-sponsered studies appear to be an attempt to rid itself of being the official handlers of the subject (probably out of embarrassment and press attention they don't know how to handle) rather than people genuinely curious.
Even Carl Sagan falls victim to some of the "traps of skeptics". He "over thinks" about what alien technology or beings should look like and act. He will say things like, "The abductees must be wrong because the alien medical tools are too bulky. They should have smaller tech if they are advanced." This is sloppy reasoning because we have no idea what such tech would really be like. Perhaps that instrument packs 10,000 medical exams/procedures into one device. (It is not proof for, but not against either.) And, his attitude is Holier-Than-Thow.
It is such an emotionally-charged subject that getting the real scoop is tough. Too bad.
Table-ized A.I.
Really, the New Scientist article is quite good, and I can see where this probably happens all the time, whether it's in hard science, social science, or in this case pseudo-science. People don't take the time to check that their sources are being accurate or honest, and so misinformation easily spreads...
DO NOT LEAVE IT IS NOT REAL
I was going to point this out, but then realized that I didn't want to give away how little of a life I had, or just how much of my brain is filled with obnixiously useless trivia.
You've blown both our covers. Thanks.
You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!
...life this planet has produced capable of utilising technology. Maybe all the "Aliens" are a previous species from this planet that relocated to let us evolve in peace. Just as wacky as any other theory.
UFO-loon Denise M. Clark wrote about a UFO book that discusses "the intelligence of our sea life, mainly as that intelligence relates to dolphins". Slashdot user Swannie attempted to make a humorous startrek IV reference by adding "Don't forget about killer whales". Others have pointed out that this was an inaccurate Trek reference. I'd like to add that it was also silly because killer whales are in the family delfinidae; i.e. they are dolphins, and as such were not "forgotten" by Ms. Clark's statement.
FWIW, I think it is safe to assume that either Ms. Clark or the author of the book she reviewed is fond of David Brin's Uplift Wars series, and in particular the intelligent dolphins in his book Startide Rising. They ought to expand their reading just a little and familiarize themselves with Brin's essay from Otherness where he talks about the public's refusal to accept that language research has simply not shown dolphins to be as clever as we wish them to be.
For interested parties - This is a very cool book. It is an odd combination of short sci-fi stories grouped by topic along with intelligent non-fictional essays that discuss the same issues. Brin uses the above cetacean language example as a jumping off point to discuss Americans' obession with behaving as though other people's ideas, even ones that are not supported by the facts, ought to be treated like they equal merit.
"Weapons should be hardy rather than decorative" - Miyamoto Musashi
I think that goes for OS's too
We can make all kinds of arguments like: alien intelligence leaves no trace of itself, isn't interested in us, or isn't interested in exploration. However, the one data point we have (ourselves) is very bad at cleaning up after itself, isn't shy at all about going after resources wherever they exist, and is very keen on exploration. There's no reason why other intelligence would be significantly different.
The answer may lie in what I call the "technological horizon" (no discontinuity implied) or Verner Vinge calls the "technological singularity" (discontinuity implied but not necessarilly required). Given the exponential increase in human knowledge and technology (stoppable only through the fall of civilization or the widespread adoption of intellectual property law, patent law in particular, something which arguably most intelligent spieces would be smart enough to avoid), it may be that the period of time when a species would be interested in physical exploration of the universe is relatively short (measurable perhaps in mere decades), before their interests (and their very existence) moves on to another state beyond, or perhaps orthogonal to, our current ability to comprehend.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Let's take a walk down Denises' review and look for a few key mistakes:
1) extremely well-researched and detailed report; Highly annotated and illustrated; a wealth of documented information; a plethora of written documentation ably enhances his description; Also explored in great detail; replete with scientific data; provides hours of reading material and documentation;
All this and more in 139 fun filled pages of nonsense! Do you really believe that in a book almost half the size of Stephen Hawking's 'the universe in a nutshell' we get the science of intelligence, intelligent life, explanations for UFO's (along with not only documented 'events' but replete with diagrams and POSSIBLE starship models and what they're made of! WOW!) and the science to back it up? I scoff, but only because my horoscope says star people are stealing my brainwaves.
2) How and why these creatures have gained such highly specialized communication skills
Yes indeed. Somewhere in those 139 pages is the answer that oceanographers and biologists everywhere have been looking for for the past umpteen years. Right. The book is listed under both 'self help' and 'entertainment'. I suggest you get more of the first, and realize the impact the second has had on your sense of reality.
My cube. My friend. My solace. My prison.
A someone else mentioned, they did "lobster in a sealed mason jar" tests with octopi. Octopi averages less that 30 minutes to figure out how to get the jar open and get the lobster. They did another, even more amazing test: they put two tanks side by side, one with an octopous that had learned how to open the jar and in the other tank a octopus that had never seen a jar before. They gave the lobster in a jar to the experienced octopus and it opened the jar in 30 seconds. The other octopus watched this event with interest (probably wanted that yummy lobster!). They then gave a lobster in a jar to the new optopus. He opened it in less than five minutes, mimicking the technique used by the experienced octopus.
This is one of the very few repeatable cases of a non-mammalian life form learning from the experience of others.
The octopus (and its close kin) are among the most intellegent non-mammals on the planet. Rivaled only by the corvids (ravens, crows, magpies, etc...).
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
Does anybody else think that his parents gave him that name? Also, did anyone else notice that his two names are inseperable in the review? This guy is probably the leader of one of those doomsday cults.
-- Len
It's not really that simple. We always seem to assume that intellegent life will be living in our galaxy at the same time we do. Other than the "first biillion year limit" (there simply wasn't enough heavy elements in the universe for the first billion years to support technological societies), there is no reason to assume that any alien intellegent species will be alive today.
Homo sapiens sapiens have trod upon this planet for some 70,000 years. In a universe 15 billion years old that is less than the blink of an eye. Tenns of millions of intellegent spieces may have risen and fallen into extinction long before we arose.
We may also be the first intellegent species to ever make it this far (not likely, but you never know). Consider that life has slithered across this planet for the last 3.5 - 4 billion years and we have only been around for 70,000 of those years.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
The author is a nutcase and a crank, so is the reviewer.
Nevertheless, it would be nice to have a serious discussion on the possibility of extrasolar life.
A number of points (I'm a biologist) that need consideration:
1) How narrow is the range of conditions that would allow life to arise? We have exactly 1 observation on this point, the Earth.
2) How broad are the range of conditions under which life might persist, once formed? Again, we have only the earth to look at, but the range of conditions found on the earth, were life is found, are broad indeed.
3) When these conditions exist, how likely are the events required for life to form? To endure? Evidence indicates that life began fairly quickly in the formation of the early earth - therefore, we are inclined to believe that these events are LIKELY. The confidence we can have in this estimate is very much open to debate.
3) Once life has formed, will it always evolve into complex life? It took aeons (billions of years) for complex life - which I define as Eukaryotic single celled organisms, which are our immediate single-celled acnestors - to arise on earth - therefore, we are inclined to believe that these events are UNLIKELY, if they happen randomly. It is possible that other events (the oxygenation of the atmosphere, for example) are effectively precursors to the rise of complex cells, and these pre-requisite events might just take a long time, but still be LIKELY. I don't think so, though.
My best guess? Yes, extra-solar life exists. However, the first extra-solar life we find will be boring to anyone other than a micro- or molecular- biologist.
Some features of the earth which might be key to any of the above:
a) An early solar event caused the formation of dense planets fairly close to the sun.
b) Our moon reduced the number of large objects that have struck the earth's surface throughout it's history.
c) The earth's temperature has always been such that liquid water can exist on the surface.
d) The atmosphere and photodensity on the early earth were such that complex molecules could exist in shallow water without being totally shredded by radiation.
e) Nonetheless, the atmosphere and photodensity were such that radiation triggered chemical events still occurred in shallow water with some frequency.
f) The earth has a seismically active core, which releases chemicals (such as certain metal ions) which might be relatively scarce otherwise, and which helps to counteract certain effects of erosion, and to sustain others for longer periods.
The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
Area 51 is simply a military test site for skunkworks aircraft. Sure, there are UFO's all over that place. They're not alien spacecraft, but simply unidentified flying objects, super-secret military aircraft.
And the whole "alien spacecraft" meme is about the best cover story the Air Force could ever want. If everyine is trying to figure out what planet all of these weird looking UFOs are coming from, no one is trying to figure out what black-book aircraft they really are. AND the speculation has caused the former USSR to waste millions and millions of dollars researching the possibility that alien spacecraft are here.
The beauty of this is amazing.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
A mind is like a wound, if its too open it'll get infected. Seriously, you should practice your critical thinking skills a bit.
Whoops I just realized you were talking about the other quote you gave, not mine. Doh!
"And like that
Try the competition to find the best predictor of UFO report frequencies by State. Its the closest to basic science you're likely to see for a while in the area of UFOlogy.
Seastead this.
My reaction to your story isn't "Nah, that's impossible, BS" it is just "OK, but it is hard to see how this could be used in an investigation". You can't get a better answer than "I don't know".
Also note that the Condon Report which is still looked upon by most skeptics as the most comprehensive report on UFOs have a case which remains unexplained, and conclude that there is evidence for an extraordinary object (this is the single case they come to that conclusion for).
Those claiming to have a better explanation than "I don't know" will raise some eyebrows and if they offer a ahem, exotic explanation, they may see some ridicule, but I don't think any real skeptic will look at you as a kook for telling this story.
Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
As you may have read today, absolutely nothing extraordinary happened to the men who opened King Tut's tomb, yet we still had to endure 80 years of speculation and argument about the mythical "mummy's curse."
among other things, the author claims that modern man was genetically engineered by aliens
I wish they had engineered in a gene that required we have actual proof of something before we believed it was true.
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
"that amounts to say 'there are certainly UFOs looping around the earth'. Whee, one more book I won't read."
The problem is that the UFOs are cloaked. We can't see them until we start building missile launcers.
Yeah, well not completely worthless, because if one starts to see a pattern, it may be possible to set up experiments. It is just that these things are awfully hard... :-)
Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
My father tells a similar story.
He was walking through a lit parking lot one hazy evening, and he noticed these cream colored blobs off in the distance. They were swooping back and forth, and performing maneuvers no aircraft could possibly handle, at least not without turning the pilot to gel. He stood there watching for several minutes, because he was certain he was seeing real live UFOs.
Then one of them swooped down and ate a bug that was circling one of the parking lot lights.
He's had a rather skeptical view of UFO claims since.
Remember kids, lighting and atmospheric conditions can make even ordinary events like birds looking for an easy meal look odd.
But then again, I could be wrong.
Mankind grew up trying to explain everything in a self centered way. Religions sprang up that separated God, man and animals. Christianity for example teaches that God made man in his image and all of the animals were put on Earth for man. In this belief system, mankind is very much on center stage and it is somewhat unthinkable that God would have created another race on some distant planet. I think that man's early beliefs are still with us today.
We really don't have enough information yet to tell if life is rare or abundant in the universe. Is life on our planet a one in a million or one in a trillion chance?
I liked the part in the movie 'Contact' where Jody Foster is explaining that if only one planet out of some very high number (I don't remember exactly) had life and if only one of those had intelligent life and so on that there would be millions of races in the universe.
It is a bit vain to think that we are anything special. However, even if there are millions of races in the universe, the universe is a VERY big place. Such great distances may separate us all that meeting beings from other races is impractical or even impossible.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
See, everything was going good, then Acturus had to send Kerigan down to get killed...now she's back as a Zerg and has pissed Tassadar off...this won't end well.
After careful consideration, I decided that it really does not matter if aliens, BigFoot, or even God(s), really exist or not. If they really do exist, they have so little apparent power to affect my life (as long as I do not buy anything their followers are selling, anyway) that they effectively do not affect my life. Without evidence of any effect on my life, much less evidence of existence, these things do not touch my life. So I don't think about them, unless I get to join a /. discussion on them. I have this same thought, when prompted, about any other similar thing that requires "belief". H0-ho-ho.
I've read some stuff on the net that says the 'greys' are from the 4th planet of Zeta-Reticuli 2. One star in a binary star system about 37 light years away. Here's the link. The map is some very convincing evidence.
Didn't someone else post on /. about seeing an absurdly huge flying object move about in the night sky? It was an equally interesting first hand account (and the witness similarly did not jump to conclusions about what he saw.)
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
So what you're saying is that the aliens are too smart to want to do anything but (silently) chill on the homeworld? As in...
... and no, I don't mean 'sliders-like' alternative histories, I mean completely different continuua, etc).
Good Lord.
Stop reading space opera tripe, read some Greg Egan or Verner Vinge, and grow your imagination a little.
The speed of light may well be an ABSOLUTE LIMIT, with no clever circumvention (wormholes, what have you) possible. However, their may well be vastly more interesting domains that are accessible (hacking into the stuff of which the universe is made at its lowest level, accessing, or constructing, alternative universes with vastly different physical constants
Perhaps the ability to access or construct a realm in which quantum limitations and speed of light limits do not apply (making vastly greater, perhaps infinite, computational resources availabel to them, to which they could upload their minds. Obviously causality would prevent them from using this as a short cut across our space, but it might free them from the doomed burnout that faces this universe, and free their minds to grow without bounds.
Of course, someone on the far side of the technological horizon is going to imagine vastly more, but even in these few moments I've managed to think of something a little more intriguing than FTL or whatever nonsense it is scurrying around your little mind.
It is entirely possible that emergent intelligences shake off the physical limits of this universe like an embryonic reptile would the shell of its hatching egg. It may not be able to make the egg any larger or more amenable to its conditions, but it is entirely capable of breaking out of it and moving on to greener pasteurs.
In which case intelligence could be reasonably common, and yet Fermi's paradox would be answered.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy