Tech's Answer To Big Brotherism

StCredZero writes "Along the same lines as the earlier article about Poindexter's info being posted, C|Net has an interesting editorial by Declan McCullagh on how to protect our personal information from unauthorized snooping by the authorities, yet let them have a database for tracking down terrorists. McCullagh's solution is based on algorithms developed for Digital Cash."

Comments

Privacy is overrated

[frotty]

I only value privacy when it amounts to avoiding people pushing products, unfairly judging me, taking what's mine, and/or impersonating me.

Other than that, knowing any amount of data about us could only be used to make generalizations about us. . . who would really have the time to come up with a fair assessment? Who's job would that be?

It seems like it'd be less preventative and useful in the "clean up our mess" department of the guv.

This thing is such a load of BS

[I am Emmitt Smith]

Seriously, does the government not think that terrorists are smart enough to pay with cash whenever they are doing anything that might get them caught? Or does it expect us to believe that the real reason for building the database is to catch terrorists? Either our government is retarded or it thinks we are. And I'm pretty sure I know the correct answer.

Re:protecting yourself

[Ralph Wiggam]

Just last week I payed cash for my one way ticket from Amman, Jordan to Baltimore. Everyone was very understanding when I explained that I had lost my wallet in a taxi and didn't have any ID. If you're just polite to people and smile, it will go a long way.

Re:protecting yourself

[Gareman]

The problem with cash and other less visible transactions is that your profile would stick out and you would be suspect.

Terrorists understand this and would likely tend to electronically blend in. Buy your standard groceries with your supermarket card, pay for gas at regular intervals, etc., all in an attempt to create a normative profile. Save cash and other less visible transactions for the sketchy stuff (large amounts of chemicals, ammunition and firearms, etc.).

This of course leads to the outlawing of cash and thus makes the cash-only people even more suspect. When cash is outlawed, only outlaws will use cash.

--gary

Why would anyone do this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Although corporate databases CAN be made to hinder or thwart gathering personal information, WHY would said corporations bother to implement this?

Here are just three reasons it won't happen:

1) Purposely hiding customer transactions and data may draw unwanted attention of the feds. Not officially, of course (or maybe...). But lots of "unofficial" attention by federal agents and agnecies can be a real headache. Maybe the company finds itself the target of yearly IRS audits, for instance.

2) As explained 14,000 times a day on Slashdot, corporations don't care about us except as a source of revenue. Their declared objective is to make as much money as possible. So why go to any extra effort unless it results in higher profits?

3) Even if a company did bother how can you, as a consumer, ever be certain it even works? Maybe it's just a PR campaign (i.e. lying) in an attempt to increase revenue (see #2 above). Without detailed insider knowledge about the methods used, there is no way to ensure that any database privacy measuses exist or work even if they do exist.

You want some privacy, make small transactions and pay for everything in cash.

Interesting-- the "re-education" of America?

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's something interesting ---

I wonder what will happen in schools in a few years? When we were all kids growing up, we were taught that we were the greatest nation because we had certain freedoms, that the government had limited power over watching us etc, instead of places like soviet Russia (where the CD players listen to YOU--- woops, wrong post) that watch and control their citizens.

What is probably going to happen is that kids in schools today will be taught (slowly as not to draw attention to it) that it is good and proper for the government to watch its citizens, that there is no such thing as a "right to privacy" etc... and kids being kids will dismiss our ideas of personal liberty, privacy, etc as old fasioned - or worse, that they see mommy or daddy using PGP or linux, or planting a tree in front of the security camera in their house, and thinking that mommy or daddy must be terrorists...

Just my 2 cents' worth...

Re:Big Brother is More Than That

[sabinm]

Your comments are pretty interesting
but you would willingly force yourself and thereby *believe* the opposite to be true,

that is mostly true. however the real insidiousness of it lay in the fact that the people were not *forcing* themselves. Infact, winston was tortured becasue he was *forcing himself* to believe what the party was telling him.

forcing oneself to believe has the implication of somewhere knowing that one is still aware that one is lying to oneself.

the true "converts" (there can be no converts) to the party were those who could believe two things at once with no contradiction (we are at war with Eurasia, we were always at war with eurasia).

in other words, people unconsiously thought in terms of dual or multiple realities. there was no deception on anyone's part, only acceptance of all things at once.

scary, huh.

The problem with this is

[Anonymous Coward]

Using the methods outlined in the article, the buisnesses involved would have to retool their entire transaction handling infrastructure, That's a lot of things they would have to rewrite. Also this would mean if their servers went down, they should not take an imprint of a credit card, so there is also a policy change which would need to be instated.

All of these things would cost a retail establishment money, in expenditure for a new system, or lost sales to cover a policy change.

The only way I could see such a system being implemented was if the credit card companies got behind it and forceds retailers to comply. I can not off hand think of how this would be beneficial to credit companies, so unkfortunatly I don't think that this will have a chance.

Am I being thick, or what?

[garyok]

It strikes me that another agency wouldn't be able to access your data in a usable form either: the company holding it. They'd need your permission every time they wanted to compile a management report, or research sales trends, or whatever, so the cost of this sort of activity would be so high there'd be no point in them developing IT solutions for these tasks at all. This would adversely impact on corporate efficiency and profitability (also, other projects with interdependencies on these tasks would probably find it harder to justify claims for funding with the board - i.e. no jobs for us).

Any company that implemented a solution like this for its sales data would probably be cutting it's own throat.

Or, if they had a key to unlock the database, then the spooks could just take that too. And you're right back to where you started.

Re:protecting yourself

[JWSmythe]

I opened a new bank account with $1000 cash.

I made a few small transactions over the next month, and large cash deposits weekly.

After 1 month of having an account, I bought a plane ticket for my girlfriend's daughter, two weeks in advance of the flight.

I moved recently across the country. I personally flew the same route a couple times, and my girlfriend and her daughter about 6 round trips. All those trips were with another account at a different bank. On most of the previous transactions, the airlines called the bank to verify information. My bank volunteered the information to me, as they had it all on record..

This particular trip, the airline called the new bank. The new bank thought because it was a large purchase ($250).

Instead of contacting me, my account was marked as suspect/fraud and suspended, my bank card (ATM/Mastercard) was flagged as stolen.

We got to the airport to let her fly. We went to the ticket counter to check her in. Security was called over to keep an eye on us. They asked to see the credit card, and held onto it behind the counter. Then they asked to see my ID.. Luckly, I carry several forms of ID around with me. That was enough to get my credit card back.

They then told me that the card was used fraudently to purchase the ticket. I told them *I* made the purchase, and I am the card holder.

They then told me the card had been stolen. I opened my wallet back up, looked inside. Oh look, card is still there. I told them it had not been stolen.

The airline was being cooperative with me. They weren't dicks about it, just trying to be safe.

I stepped out of line to call the bank.. Standing in the middle of LAX, waiting to get a little girl on a flight. I had roughly 10 minutes to get this fixed...

The bank calmly told me that the card had been reported stolen at 6am that morning. Well, the card was in my wallet, locked in my house, with me at 6am. It wasn't stolen (we left for the airport at 7am). I asked them who reported it. They don't record information like that. Only that someone called and said it was stolen. So I asked, "Can I call the bank, and say that your card has been stolen?". That made her very nervous.. Yes. Anyone can call and say anything they'd like, and they will respond to it.. You can call and say you've found a credit card belonging to one of their customers, and that card is now useless.. (Evil thoughts to do to bad customers, huh?)

Through about 8 hours of me interviewing everyone I could get on the phone, I came to understand what happened. The bank messed up. They took the fact that I had only made small purchases (up to $100) at local stores, and the fact that it was a plane ticket, and decided I couldn't have possibly bought the ticket, and froze everything..

8 hours of talking on the phone to come to that realization, and get them to unfreeze my bank account. It was another three weeks before they'd send me a working ATM/Mastercard .

Needless to say, she missed her flight.

The only advice the bank had, was not to make large purchases {sigh}, and that my girlfriend's daughter should have bought the ticket with her credit card. I don't know how the rest of the world sees it, but a 12 year old girl probably shouldn't be running around with her own credit card. Well, not until she has a job to support it. :) Generally, we don't let her go out by herself in the bigger cities, so very rarely would she have a need for a credit card of her own..

Now when I make purchases, I wonder if the bank will suddenly decide to reverse the charges on them.. I love banks, honestly.

Since I got to California, I've had some problem with two different banks, that has required me to be in the bank at least once per week to straighten out. I spent almost two hours at "Bank Of America" a couple weeks ago, just to get a check cashed. Not waiting in line, waiting for someone to make the executive decision that my check was ok to cash. Not just any handwritten check, it was my payroll check. The vice president happened to walk by and say "Have you been helped." I told him the story as quickly and concisely as possible, and told them just to take care of me..

It's sad when the secret to getting any simple task done in a bank requires you making an ass of yourself in front of other customers til it gets taken care of. They're growing to know me when I walk in now.. I'm the customer that *WILL* make an ass of himself til they do what I need done. It's not like I ask for extraordenary things. I bring in a payroll check to the bank it's drawn on, and I have proper ID (several forms), I want it cashed. I still don't get how they have the nerve to ask me if I want to open an account with them, when I know it's this much of a pain to work with them normally.

I could rant more, but.....