Dashboard Linux - 1 Year Later

bergeron76 writes "It's been just over a year since the DashPC/Dashboard Linux project initially got jump started. Since then, the project has grown by an order of magnitude. The initial codebase has been released on freshmeat and sourceforge, and we're working with several other developers on integrating projects such as Linux GPS Navigation, wardrive mapping, and ODBII automobile interfacing. The potential is endless, considering just a couple of recent news headlines, and how we'd love to eventually bring them to both new and existing automobiles."

Comments

Yay.

[The Turd Report]

Now, not only do I get to try and dodge all the morons with their cell phones and in-dash dvd players. Now, I have to avoid people compiling their kernels on the road. Sheesh.

Re:Yay.

[foxtrot]

Now, not only do I get to try and dodge all the morons with their cell phones and in-dash dvd players. Now, I have to avoid people compiling their kernels on the road. Sheesh.

Nothing to worry about! Everyone knows Linux machines never crash!

-JDF

Re:Yay.

[red_dragon]

Everyone knows Linux machines never crash!

But you know that some smart-ass kernel hacker will put "eng1 on fire!" in the code somewhere.

When will the Corporate Dashboard linux come?

[freakyfreak2]

I wouldn't be surprised that down the road some major car manufacturers start using this open source code for onboard computer systems. It would save them money, help create a standard for onboard computers and probably bring about a new revolution in the modern society(ok, a bit of hyperbole).

Re: When will the Corporate Dashboard linux come?

[interiot]

I doubt that mobile computers will be very standardized, apart from having 2 or 3 computer vendors who produce 2 or 3 different standards for all car manufacturers. Car-computers will be nearly as compact as laptops, but since they'll be so integrated into the car (eg. they may be on the car's CAN network, may talk directly to the ECU, and have varying proprietary interfaces to varying I/O devices embeded into the console) that it will take quite a while to stndardize, if ever.

Re: When will the Corporate Dashboard linux come?

[rob-fu]

I wouldn't be surprised that down the road some major car manufacturers start using this open source code for onboard computer systems. It would save them money, help create a standard for onboard computers and probably bring about a new revolution in the modern society(ok, a bit of hyperbole).

Your points are valid, but what if there was some bug in some module of the enormous body of code that could not be produced in only the rarest of circumstances, causing the car to explode (or something catastrophic to that effect)?

Who would be held accountable if it were open-source?

Re: When will the Corporate Dashboard linux come?

[Emperor BMA]

Who would be held accountable if it were open-source?

The manufacturer is accountable. After all, it is Open Source, so if it doesn't work right, the manufacturer had their chance to fix it...

Only in closed source Operating Systems can anyone blame the company that made the OS.

Re: When will the Corporate Dashboard linux come?

[Spoing]

Who would be held accountable if it were open-source?

Who would be held accuntable if it weren't open-source?

Answer: The company that offers a warranty. If you sell it, some states have an implied warranty...others do not.

Crossover -- the commercial Wine -- is warranted by Codeweavers.

slashdotted

[Karamchand]

If the server which hosts www.dashpc.com is obviously too slow to handle the load of the typical slashdot effect, why don't you host it at your Sourceforge webspace?

Just curious :)

Re:slashdotted

[All Names Have Been]

Slashdotted? You try running your webserver out of the dash of a 1988 Ford Festiva and see how far you get.

Re:slashdotted

[HorrorIsland]

Don't you mean how far you get per gallon?

Kudos to these folks

[The Tyro]

We've had computers in cars for years... they just were not the kind you typically think about. I think it's great that we are "open-sourcing" what goes on under the hood; I, for one, would love to know exactly what my engine is doing. Further, the potential to make changes (fuel/air mixture, timing, etc) in engine parameters would make such a project useful beyond even the geek factor.

Also, newer cars have computers in them anyway... OnStar, GPS mapping, etc. Why not have an open alternative that those of us with older cars can implement? You will have to roll your own, but so what? most geeks will probably want to anyway.

As for watching DVDs while you drive... Well... that problem might just take care of itself (hopefully with minimal collateral damage).

Re:Kudos to these folks

[drinkypoo]

The fact that OBD-II interfaces are being opened will help relatively few people. I suspect also that most cars have few tunable parameters. It will be nice to be able to get more of the data OUT of the ECU but I don't think we'll be able to put very much IN. Also OBD-II is a pretty new thing, and most cars -- even fuel injected cars -- don't have it. This of course is self-correcting over time...

If you want to know everything your engine is doing, you owe it to yourself to move to a complete engine management system such as those sold by haltech. I picked them because they are the first brand of ECU which I discovered would easily support the nissan crank angle sensor. (It has 90 degree marks, 0/180 degree marks, AND 1 degree marks.) There are certainly other companies making them. They generally have a serial port which you connect to a laptop (assuming you want to do things on the road) and you can adjust fuel maps and such in realtime.

The project toward which I am schooling (at yuba college in marysville) is creating my own EMS. I took a class in assembler, I'm going to take a few in electronics, and they have a nice big auto department so I should be able to go learn plenty about fuel systems and ignition systems. Complete engine management systems generally cost around $3000 (or more) and I want one much cheaper :)

I think that people should be putting effort into creating a "free" (as in unencumbered) engine management system design for cars. I am not planning to do this however, I want to produce a commercial venture and hardware is not software! However if I do successfully complete this project before I get bored with it then I intend the source to at least be open if not free.

Re:Kudos to these folks

[Rick the Red]

I, for one, would love to know exactly what my engine is doing. Further, the potential to make changes (fuel/air mixture, timing, etc) in engine parameters would make such a project useful beyond even the geek factor.

You have no idea! I worked for GM back in the day (1973-1979), and one of the things I got to play with was the development hardware for their first CCC cars (Computer Controlled Carburetor). There was a black box that sat on the seat, with the computer (which normally was behind the passenger's kick panel) mounted on top. The black box was connected to the under-hood stuff, of course, and via a ribbon cable to a heads-up display that sat on the dash. It had LED displays and toggle switches so you could see/change various parameters. We could get those cars to idle smoothly at insanely low RPMs (did I mention they adjusted idle speed, too? little motors moving the throttle stop), but with those settings they didn't run well unless you really eeeeassed the throttle open. With those boxes you could do anything you wanted. Man, I wanted to score one for myself so badly it hurt, but they were locked down tighter than the Crown Jewels (if any got out, they'd be liable to the EPA!).

It was in those days that I learned a bit of a secret: The computers have a "map" of the various sensor inputs -- rpm, temperature (air & water), vacuum, throttle, etc.) At any point on this multi-dimentional map were the values for things the computer controlled, like air/fuel ratio, timing, etc. They knew the "path" the EPA tests took over this map, and adjusted the settings for min. emissions/max. fuel economy while on that path; the rest of the map had settings for whatever characteristic they wanted for the car in question: performance for a Camero, drivablity for an Olds, economy for a Chevy, etc. I'm sure they still do this today. Aftermarket computer ROMs are using the same trick.

Re:Kudos to these folks

[drinkypoo]

As your sibling comment says, everything since 1996. Also a few before that. But most of the cars we(people who are not rich) want to hack to extremes are older - they're cheaper.

The article you linked is interesting, I hadn't heard about CAN. It sounds interesting, though not all that interesting since they say it's still not all it could be. Then again if the sensors were more intelligent I'm sure it would be plenty to do basically all your diagnostics with.

OBD-II is, I'm sure, sufficient for what most people want to do on their dashboards. But as I said, most of the cars which are interesting from a hacking standpoint, the cheap powerhouses, don't have even OBD-II, let alone will they have CAN.

Re:Kudos to these folks

[vr]

As for watching DVDs while you drive... Well... that problem might just take care of itself (hopefully with minimal collateral damage).

Yeah.. that movie sucked.

Re:Kudos to these folks

[Grab]

Actually they don't do that these days. *Very* large fines now. I work for Ford, and I've coincidentally just been to a lecture about this.

There's a concept called a "defeat device", which is anything used to make the car's emissions behave differently in normal driving to how they would do under the EPA standard cycles. Anything can be a "defeat device", from a switch to a black box to a control algorithm to a lookup table to a single variable.

EPA test cars on a standard cycle. However, they are also allowed to just take this thing for a drive and see how it behaves, and if it looks wrong then they can do you - particular problems are events (like step-changes) happening just outside the EPA cycles. It is then down to the manufacturer to prove 100% that the reason for that step-change in emissions just outside the EPA cycle is due to a fundamental, can't-get-round feature of the engine, and not due to a defeat device. If you can't prove that 100%, you're assumed guilty and fined.

The essential thing to get here is the "guilty until proven innocent" bit. Auto manufacturers have to disclose to the EPA every part of their strategies which can affect emissions, and show that if emissions are increased at any point, this is either due to stopping the engine melting down or due to an essential driver safety requirement (foot-to-floor is a classic - you can give out more emissions here, bcos it's unsafe for the driver not to have torque when they're trying to overtake). If the EPA doesn't think you're right about your decisions, they can stop you selling the car. And if you don't disclose something which affects emissions, you're 100% screwed.

So far, fines have been relatively small, $100 million max. Toyota however are currently fighting a case which, if they lose, will cost them in the order of billions of dollars. Bad news...

Grab.

Re:Kudos to these folks

[drinkypoo]

If we're talking Nissan, then we have to mention the 240SX which is extremely inexpensive - Well, the early model (S13) is - But no OBD-II on most of those. It's also necessary to mention a bunch of Hondas from the 1980s, some of which predate OBD-II entirely. I would assume that there's a number of CRXs which are not OBD-II but I don't know for sure. The old celicas are starting to be interesting to people from a tuning standpoint, and plenty of those aren't even fuel injected :) People are ricing and tuning EVERYTHING these days it seems.

P.S. The Skyline doesn't count, it costs too much in the US due to the low volume and the significant (one assumes) amount of money motorex invested in legalizing them over here. Sweet ride, but I'm more excited about the Lancer Evo VII which all the car mags insist is coming here for 2003 at (they claim) 250hp. Not as much as the JDM version, but more than (say) an Impreza WRX. And as goofy as the Evo looks, the headlights on the WRX just make me laugh. It looks like a neon porked a sunfire and that was the result.

I maintain that what the world REALLY needs is an open/free engine management system using inexpensive off the shelf components which are familiar to the majority of people capable of working with such systems. I would suggest some kind of motorola processor that would give way more cycles than you could possibly need and enough I/O to control TWO engines, that way you could do any damn thing you wanted to with it. The hardware couldn't possibly cost any more than $500 and that would be a dramatic bargain as that costs less than modifying some ECUs for chipping.

One guy's setup

[interiot]

Is this just one guy's setup, or is it designed to be compatible across many different setups? There are a lot of different input methods (wireless keyboard, mouse, joystick, twiddler, touch-screen), lots of different output devices (sound only w/ text-to-speech, sound with screen, NTSC TV, true VGA, a non-standard LCD screen), several different ways to control powerup/powerdown (eg. tell the inverter to turn off after finishing powerdown, wake on LAN/802.11b, ability to tell the car to auto-start to recharge the battery). A set of software that supports a variety of these would be truly valuable and I'd gladly contribute, but this looks like it's just one guy's particular setup.

Re:One guy's setup

[Sarek]

Actually dashpc.com is his setup but we have a yahoo group and forum for this getting input from tons of people. Also there are pictures and links to other people's sites about this. Some of them use the dashpc code others use MS Windows or their own X11 interface.
We're trying to get the dashpc code to work with all kinds of configurations. As soon as things start calming down here at my work I'll be contributing to the coding.
A few of the guys on the list are doing circuit design for startup/shutdown of the pc.

I've yet to see any bashing for using something else. Everything has been a calm debate weighing the different pros/cons of hardware/software setups. We're really trying to make something that will work for everyone I feel.

--Sarek

Why stop with ICE/GPS?

[Handpaper]

Even a 500MHz cpu could do all this and run the ignition/injection system used to operate the engine.

Just think - downloadable map upgrades, no more hardware 'chipping', and best of all...

You do not have enough permissions to run engine_init
Locking all doors...
Done
Automated police call activated
You're nicked sonny...

Re:Why stop with ICE/GPS?

[Subcarrier]

Even a 500MHz cpu could do all this and run the ignition/injection system used to operate the engine.

$ Ignition key detected.
$ Accelerator angle is 0 zegrees. Adjusting fuel injection rate...
INTERRUPT HANDLER: Division by zero error. Trying to recover...
$ New fuel injection rate 2147483647 gallons per second.
$ Air intake insufficient. Connecting turbo charger to oxygen tanks...
$ Done.
$ Adjusting valves...
$ Done.
$ Fuel mix oxygenation below nominal but within acceptable parameters.
$ Stand by for ignition...
WHOOOSHHH!

Re:Why stop with ICE/GPS?

[brad3378]

Yet another reason not to share your root password with your wife!

Re:Why stop with ICE/GPS?

[Grab]

Actually, most realtime systems do use interrupts. They're the best way of getting multi-rate processing done - for instance, there's no need to check the ambient air temperature faster than maybe every 100ms, bcos it doesn't change that fast, but calculations of engine fuelling required need to be done at the millisecond kind of timing. To do this, you split your code into stuff running at separate task rates. Interrupts ensure that more important tasks interrupt less important tasks. Every engine controller uses this system.

Of course, you don't want interrupts to screw your data. To this end, your RTOS ensures that every task has a separate stack or that the lower-priority task's registers are pushed and popped during interrupts, and you have to design your code to take account of interrupts. For example, if a low-priority task sets a bit-field to zero and then fills in each bit one at a time, a high-priority task mustn't read that bit-field bcos it may read the value before the low-priority task has finished filling in all the bits. Embedded code has its own sets of challenges which you don't usually see in the desktop world.

Incidentally, the "relatively simple" embedded system is no longer simple. In order to meet ever-tighter emissions controls and get better performance and mileage from the same engine, the processing is *seriously* complex. On my current project at work, we're currently using a 32-bit processor with floating-point support running at 32MHz (for the record, that's a pretty high-end embedded controller), and we've had to do some *serious* hacking to get our application to run in real-time at full RPM!

Grab.

Old cars too.

[Capt. DrunkenBum]

I am just glad that they are not just thinking about new cars, for this project. My car is 24 years old, and I have no plans to replace it. With the work that I have just done to it, my baby is probably good for at least another 10 years.

Never trust a car under 20 years old.

Re:Old cars too.

[Capt. DrunkenBum]

IT is a BMW 320i. I am not much into raw proformance, I prefer proformance with finesse.

I am looking for a BMW 633CSi for my next project, now that my 320i is almost fully restored.

Re:Old cars too.

[Capt. DrunkenBum]

I have owned many cars in my life, and worked as an auto detailer for several years, so if I haven't owned it, I have driven it.

But the 60s and 70s BMWs stole my heart. To me they are the perfect mix of proformance, and style.

Not Slashdotted

[miracle69]

It's just a high-bandwidth high-latency server!

Picture mirror

[SoCalChris]

From his site...

http://www.chrisnaimee.com/pics/pics.html

Enjoy!

Re:Picture mirror

[psych031337]

Awesome. I was able to get the thumbnail overview on the original site as well. I was salivating for the large ones. And your "mirror" links still point back to the dashpc site. Good job.

Re:Geeks and Gearheads

[cant_get_a_good_nick]

This is like trying to breed cats and dogs.
God shmod, I want my monkey man!!!
-- Bartholomew J. Simpson

A conversation

[teamhasnoi]

"Wow. Your car sure is quiet! What kind of muffler do you have on there? I don't hear anything at all!"

"I don't have a muffler. I just upgraded, and I couldn't get the sound to compile."

Don't let friends drive a Bad Ms Win CE!

Re:Geeks and Gearheads

[tejohnson]

Aw now, there's nothing like your average 120 MPH DMCA violation...

You are going to see this a lot more in the near future. Only, it perhaps may be based on standards.

Like using a 3G phone for the connectivity... Or Bluetoorh for device connectivity... Or a 1394b interface built directly into your car from the factory. Give it a few years ;)

Only problem is..

[Amazing Quantum Man]

The cops pull you over for overclocking!

AWESOME!

[_narf_]

They've got ODB-II support as part of the project.

For those who don't know it's a 'standard' way to interface to the car's onboard computer that most newer (~1995+) cars support. I don't recall all the specifics right now, but there's three different flavors (sort of the physical layer) of ODB-II. It roughly (but not quite) breaks down into North American, Asian, and Eurpoean makes. (i think)

You can easily query all kinds of things in realtime, view logs/alerts, and probably a ton more.

I've briefly looked into this for someone who likes to tinker with cars, and I sense I'll be looking into it much more soon. :)

Clich� Alert

[SecretAsianMan]

"The potential is endless"? It's some really great work, but can it cure cancer? Can it get us to Alpha Centauri in 3 months? No? Well, then the possibilities aren't endless. With rhetoric like that, you seem like the vendor of the "Universal Business Adapter" that I've seen in IBM commercials lately. The suits ask "Does it work in Europe?", and the vendor says "You'd need an adapter". Oops.

Re:Clich� Alert

[jnik]

"The potential is endless"? It's some really great work, but can it cure cancer? Can it get us to Alpha Centauri in 3 months? No? Well, then the possibilities aren't endless.

Wrong! What you mean to say is that the possibilities aren't limitless. However they (can be) endless. You've enumerated limitations, not termination points. As an analogy, the set of integers is limited (doesn't include pi, e, or 1/2), but still endless. Not particularly formal jargon but, well, neither is the statement with which you quibble :)

Your insight isn't far out.

[anon7864]

Protection from catastrophic software bugs is of great concern whenever you are dealing with human trust in computing machines.

I think big changes are coming in the auto manufacturing process.

Here is why:

There are more man hours spent in cars than airplanes.

Hardware is basically free. You can get a very powerfull Linux box for under $800.

Population growth, more cars, trucks, etc on the road means more accidents.

Auto manufacturers will find it difficult to be able to argue that their cars are safe when they go to a pure drive-by-wire chassis (Audi).



Eventually you will see a regulatory body for the auto industry that has the same role as the FAA/JAA with planes.

This agency will require manufacturers to certify their hardware and software development efforts in the same manner as the FAA/JAA.

The avionics hardware and software guidelines are called DO-160 (environmental), DO 178B (software) and DO-254 (complex hardware), and are published by the RTCA.

This process of certification for the "auto-onics" will be present to ensure that the car is safe, and can be sold with limited risk to the passengers.

This is especially important any time you get into a situation when you are talking about cars driving themselves. Which I have no doubt they will be able to do.

Discussions regarding the certification process of open source collaborative software would certainly be interesting.

Requested feature

[Ignorant Aardvark]

Remember those old games that had the "boss key"? Can we get a "cop key?" I.e. you're being pulled over, and in a split second you can switch away from the pr0n you were watching while driving to an innocuous looking map readout.

Another option

[SCHecklerX]

I've found that the toshiba libretto (I have a 110CT) fits perfectly right above my gearshift on my mazda protege (after creating a shelf using a couple of pieces of pvc pipe and some scrap plastic for a mount in the cup holder). I use it mostly for mp3, but also use it for maps and as a normal laptop at home with the wireless network (and I can check mail from the car as I pull in...cool :). While in the car it also functions as a wireless network stumbler, using kismet, and when bored in heavy traffic, hey, I can view my pr0n collection ;)

Since I have a full screen and keyboard, there was no need for any type of special hardware hacks or custom software. I can use xmms as is. It's a really sweet setup and only cost me ~550 ($400 for the libretto on ebay, $100 for the 20 gig drive, $50 for the memory upgrade). Use keymaps in windowmaker to launch stuff and it's a great little setup.

I wouldn't want a 500 MHz processor doing my ignit

[Mustang Matt]

"Even a 500MHz cpu could do all this andrun the ignition/injection system used to operate the engine."

Wouldn't the failure rate on a faster CPU be much higher than the processors that are currently running ignition systems?

Intel/AMD architechture is probably not the best platform for controlling critical devices on a vehicle.

However, it would be really cool to INTERFACE with the cars computer using an Intel/AMD based computer. I'd love to log the info from my (98 Cobra) car's EEC-V computer. Or even better, modify values that it uses such as ignition advance, leaning out the air/fuel ratio etc.

But a auto manufacturer wouldn't want me doing those things, lean it out too much and you've got holes in your pistons. Too much ignition advance and you've got detonation as well.

They probably wouldn't care if I logged my GPS coordinates though.

Re:I wouldn't want a 500 MHz processor doing my ig

[Hieronymous Cowherd]

You can already log a whole bunch of info from the OBD-II port, and there are piggyback and standalone EMS'es that will allow you to do full tuning. You're quite right that general-purpose computers are a bad idea for EMS.
There's even a Palm app that willl log the OBD-II information. Check my other post for a handful of links to OBD-II monitoring programs, and the free one in the article.

many good points, one bad one....

[/Idiot\]

all that cool tech and they still put the steering wheel on the wrong side!

:-)

/me ducks

watch a DVD?

[yack0]

Some of the folks in the DashPC list have systems that will play DVD's, but they also have screens in the back for the passengers. Not that it'd be impossible to put the DVD up to the front monitor, but they don't, as an admitted practice, do it.

Several people have related stories of being pulled over for a 'TV within view of the driver' which is illegal is LOTS of places, but then the DashPC user will show them 'no, it's navigation, and MP3, and a rear view mirror, and a coffee maker.....' and the cops are generaly intrigued by it. I don't think anyone on the list reported getting a ticket for it yet.

Not having one myself, but knowing how I'm planning to install it, I'm learning a lot from the list. It seems that a lot of the folks have a PC in the trunk wired to a screen and controls up front, while the rest have a custom made tiny PC that fits in some hole in their car. I'm going for the latter option, which will be stored in the center console with a screen in a custom made dash panel.

It also seems that there's been some cry out for some coders to help the project, so if you're interested, go read some archived stuff and jump into the list.

Well, hope that helps with some more info for those that can't get to the Slashdotted site.

j

I disagree with your set theory...

[jtdubs]

You seem to not have a firm grasp of mathematics.

Endless could be read as "infinite."

There are an infinite number of real numbers between 0 and 1. That set doesn't include 2 or 3. But, it's still endless.

Infinite is not the same as all-encompassing.

There are infinite counting numbers (integers >= 1), but they don't include the negatives or 0, but they are still endless.

Anyway, you can see my point. Just because you can name two or three things that our not in a given set, doesn't make that set finite.

To take it even further. thet set of all possible numbers is also not all-encompassing. It doesn't include the letter 'A'. So, it's still a matter of domain. The possibilities can only be infinite, or endless, within their domain.

Justin Dubs

Re:AutoPC has been out for years

[Lumpy]

the autopc was a total piece of crap. I knw I had one. the GPS sucked. the maps for it were of horrible quality and massively lacking and downright innacurate the mp3 player was great but the hardware sucked so bad it didnt play them worth a damn. and all the other features sucked as well.. Voice recignition was lame and horrible, most Autopc owners never used it except to try and impress friends.

the worst part was the big NASTY hardware bug I discovered and clarion never admitted to.

Turn on the car, watch the autopc boot. turn the ignition off ,on, off, on... you now have a locked up autopc that requires a convoluted reset.

so if you stalled your high speed clutch equipped car, you locked up your fricking car stereo.

I have been able to reproduce this is EVERY autopc I have came across. and even embaraassed clarion at the Car audio show in 1999 in chicago by locking up the demo car's stereo.

autopc = overpriced piece of crap . I sold mine and all it's stuff for $200.00 to a local teen. and I am betting the new $2500.00 Clarion Joyride is just as crappy.

Upstate NY?

[HoldmyCauls]

I just got me a *sweet* '89 Dodge Dakota with a cap. The heat doesn't work, so I have frost inside the cab.

The point (besides telling several other people that I have a *sweet* '89 Dodge Dakota) is that the weather is harsh around here. I doubt a standard PC case would do at all. Any ideas?

Scary

[sharkey]

Quoth the author: Whilst driving I concentrate only on driving (unless I'm in a drive thru) or parking lot.

How dangerous is that? Cruising around parking lots, which tend to have more pedestrians than roadways, concetrating on the radio, cell-phone, bags of crap just bought, etc.