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Freshmeat Launches Mac OS X Section

Liedra writes "After announcing Mac OS X software surreptitiously within its main section for the past several months, freshmeat has now launched a section totally devoted to the platform. Read the article by scoop and visit the section directly." Since I switched my primary laptop to OS X, I'm glad to see scoop do this. (Note, Freshmeat & Slashdot are both owned by OSDN.)

183 comments

  1. OS X is OS Ten by Real+World+Stuff · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Please remeber that

    --
    If we don't fight for ourselves no one will.
    1. Re:OS X is OS Ten by belloc · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      OS X is OS Ten...Please remeber [sic] that

      First of all, what's your point?

      Second of all, no it's not. The official name of the current point version of the OS is "Mac OS X version 10.2". It's a completely different beast than, and has a different name than, say, "Mac OS version 9.2".

      One is called "Mac OS X", the other is called "Mac OS". Yeah, maybe it's partly a marketing gimmick, but really, what you find under the hood (unlike with most marketing gimmicks) is completely different. Mac OS X is an operating system in many ways totally unlike Mac OS, and the difference in naming reflects that. It's not just "one louder".

      Belloc

      --
      I got more rhymes than Jamaica got Mangoes.
  2. Wow by Exiler · · Score: 1

    That took a while, I don't use OS X but I figured it would have been included on most major software sites by now.

    --
    Banaaaana!
    1. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      freshmeat isn't a major software site.

    2. Re:Wow by Phroggy · · Score: 2

      That took a while, I don't use OS X but I figured it would have been included on most major software sites by now.

      Uhhh, it has been, but Freshmeat isn't "most".

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
  3. This is definitely first post! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Now someone tell me how brilliant I am because I'm not some fat lazy xenophobic Yank.

  4. Interesting, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    As open source picks up steam, it is time to look at the Movement from a business standpoint. Namely, what kind of metrics exist to analyze a free software project and determine whether or not it is successful? Certianly not sales, because the software is free..

    I've thought of a couple of possibilities but, like everything, they have pros and cons:

    First, we could measure the number of downloads or, perhaps more accurately, the amount of bandwith spent on downloads. This would be kind of a negative performance metric, in that more mney spent (and therefore lost, since no money is being paid for the software) is actually a metric of success! That boggles the mind in that the more money a free software project loses, the more successful it is! I don't think that will take off as a widely accepted metric however, fo obvious reasons. I also don't think it works, since many people may download open source software, fail to get it to perform properly, and simply never use it again, so the metrics would suffer from variance.

    So, my second idea is to create a small piece of open source code that could be embedded in all open source software, perhaps as a part of GPL requirements - sort of an EULA, if you will. This code could then connect to a master server owned by a corporation who's job it is to track all OSS usage and report monthly metrics. Perhaps it should be a government organization, since a company might not want to take such a thankless task.

    What are your thoughts?

    1. Re:Interesting, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, my second idea is to create a small piece of open source code that could be embedded in all open source software, perhaps as a part of GPL requirements - sort of an EULA, if you will. This code could then connect to a master server owned by a corporation who's job it is to track all OSS usage and report monthly metrics. Perhaps it should be a government organization, since a company might not want to take such a thankless task.

      I love it! I think you should implement this plan immediately!

    2. Re:Interesting, but by TellarHK · · Score: 2

      Sure. Lets have the government monitor open source application use. It'll just make it that much easier to track us down when Microsoft makes it illegal!

      /sarcasm ... I hope.

    3. Re:Interesting, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the best idea I've heard in a long time. (Why it got modded troll is beyond me.) Micro$oft uses FUD against us all the time saying how nobody uses OSS and you're better off with the standard. How can we complete against that unless we have data to back it up? Every internet-connected Linux system needs to periodically send a little message to a server somewhere. That way we'll know that there are exactly that many Linux machines on the Internet at any given time, and we can start winning the hearts and minds!

    4. Re:Interesting, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WHAT AN AAAAAAMAZING IDEA!! (the extra A's are for AAAAMZING!)

    5. Re:Interesting, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I rate my project's success by the number of requested blowjobs.

      3 so far! keep it coming folks (oops, no pun intended!)

      No SCA bears please! Just trim brunettes! FEMALE brunettes I mean!

    6. Re:Interesting, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      your project intrigues me and i wish to know more!

      Kathleen Malda

  5. What OSX Users Really Want by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Ohhh, My head! What the hell had Mike spiked the punch with This time?
    Something squirmed by my side. I absently stroked the furry being.. Wait a
    second! I don't own a dog.. A wet nose slid across my chest, followed by a warm
    tongue. It found a nipple, and teased the flesh into hardness.. I groaned
    quietly. The other one was also attacked. A paw grasped my erection.. Now wait
    just one cotton-pickin' Min... The 'Page' licked my stomach. Page? I opened my
    eyes in time to watch a bear-like creature slide it's black lips around my red
    cock-tip.. My?!? The thing was almost a foot-long, with a pointed tip. The
    monster throbbed in the creature's paws, as it rotated them around the fleshy
    pole. I groaned again.. Who, or whatever it was, the being had talent. A knock
    came at a door. I scanned the room. A large bed, a creature slowly engulfing my
    cock, coats-of-arms.. Just Great! "My Lord..." Uh, oh... Now I'm in for it!
    "Enter and be welcome." Now where the hell did that come from? Out of reflex,
    the being I now inhabited had spoken. 'Ok body,' I said to myself, 'It's your
    show...' The creature, very much male, if what my claws curled around was any
    indication, sucked quietly on me.

    I felt his tonsils rub against the top of my penis. How the hell did he
    breathe? In walked.. Somebody. It didn't appear to be perturbed that I had a
    male nursing at my groin. In fact the being seemed to relax at the sight. "I
    had a.. Vision. And feared for your safety." My mouth grinned. "And why is
    that, Wizard.." Claws curled around my balls, rolling them around, heightening
    my pleasure.. The carbon-copy of what nursed at my groin shrugged under the
    purple robe. Revolving my paw, I offered the maleness in it to the creature. He
    declined.. But I could tell he wouldn't mind nibbling on the carrot.. Was I
    seeing out of another's eyes? No, I was here.. Orgasm made me grit my teeth.
    Thick ejaculate splashed over my wrist. "Pardon me.." Fa'Akl bowed, as I lifted
    the 'Page', drinking the semen dripping from his cock. I wanted very much to
    swallow the length, and get another mouthful.. But something prevented me.
    Damn! I couldn't even enjoy the slimy stuff that matted my fur. The cub took my
    paw in his and very thoroughly cleaned it off. I picked up a piece of fruit,
    and tossed it to the creature. The Page bowed to me, to Robe, then shuffled
    out, closing the door behind him. I had another problem.

    Since I was now Fully awake, my body was no longer on auto-pilot.. It wanted
    instructions.. And I didn't have any! Groaning, I leaning back onto the bed.
    "None of that.." Paws grabbed mine and levered me up. He was close enough to
    kiss.. Something surged through me. Or rather, Something no longer held me
    back.. I leaned forward, pressing my muzzle against his. The paws grabbed my
    arms harder.. I opened my eyes to stare into darker ones.. Claws shoved me
    down, sliding up to press against my shoulders. Not even for a moment did our
    mouths come apart.. I slid my tongue out to caress the upper lip. The bruin
    groaned, and allowed the tip inside.. There it was latched onto by sharp fangs.
    The wizard lifted his shaggy head.. I followed it up, having no choice... He
    let go, sighing. I gave him another kiss. "Who are you?" Good question.. I
    grabbed for his cock which was digging into my belly. The paw was slapped away.
    "You are not Isskem.. I repeat, Who Are You?" In one quick motion I flipped the
    animal over, onto the floor. He fell with a *Whoof*.. Leaning over, I scooped
    up the fat nut-sack in a paw and held them, none too gently. Moving his robe
    out of the way, I gave the half-erection incentive to grow.

    My other paw wandered up to fondle a big hairy breast as I sprawled beside him,
    caressing the creature. "I truly don't know.." He opened his mouth, and I
    pulled on his balls. "Softly, Please. I have no wish to make you a eunuch...
    "Now then.." I gave his bobbing cock a long lick. "First, I want a mouthful of
    This.. Agreed?" Fa'Akl most wholeheartedly agreed when I nibbled on the fleshy
    tip. "Second, I want to know Who I am supposed to be.." That got a chuckle.
    "Dead.." A paw pressed against my head, pushing me back down, as I had already
    swallowed half of the thick penis, and was lifting off it in surprise. I bit
    the pole.. "By whose hand?" I growled around it. The bruin jerked up, slapping
    both paws onto my muzzle. I allowed my head to be lifted, but not all the way
    off. I repeated the question, biting deeper into the flesh, giving a jerk to
    his balls. "Open." My jaw unhinged. What? "Open." My claws spread apart. Before
    he could say anything more, I latched onto the muzzle with my other paw. He put
    both paws up and tried to wrest it free. I pulled him closer. After a momentary
    shudder of revulsion, I pressed my tongue against his nose. Then latched my arm
    onto his so he could not pull the muscle off.

    The animal looked puzzled.. Until he tried to breathe. Air bubbled against my
    tongue.. The nostrils widened against the blockage and all that came in was
    saliva. The wizard did the one thing I didn't expect.. He went limp. I shifted
    and fell on top of the animal. My mouth was full of his muzzle.. I felt his
    breath go inside my lungs, as he blew out. Filled his own with my exhalation.
    We both relaxed.. Lay on our sides, breathing each other's air.. Slowly he
    moved his head back. Closed my mouth. Kissed it.. " 'Twas not me, Man." My ears
    twitched.. Did I hear that right? "Nothing can be hidden from us.. I have given
    you warmth.." The oath was ingrained in my new body's bones. I repeated it, not
    really sure what I had just said. "So, Life-Mate.. Who are you?" I fondled his
    cock, and dropped my head as he winced. "Sorry.." A paw shoved my chin up. "You
    fought for your life.. I understand - But.." The claws held my muzzle, when I
    shifted closer to the penis. "I am not sure I trust you close to it yet.." I
    wrapped my tongue around the longest claw on his paw and tugged it into my
    mouth. I again pressed my teeth to the flesh, but much more gently. And only so
    I could unravel the fleshy ribbon.

    After that I hollowed my cheeks, sucking wantonly on the digit. Lapped at it,
    imagining it a cock.. My paws stroked the furry arm, as I slid my snout over
    the finger. Fa'Akl pulled his claw free with difficulty. Growled as he shook
    the soaked appendage. "Alright, alright.." He allowed me to move back to where
    I was before. The red penis had purplish marks where I had bitten into it. I
    kissed them gently. A thought.. "I am.." "Yes?" Hmm.. I licked on the
    testicles. "Ball Kisser?" And shoved them into my mouth, doing things to the
    sweaty sack with my tongue in retaliation. When they had swelled to twice their
    size, I let them drop into a paw. "Dick-Licker.." Ah.. "Walker in Shadows.." I
    snarled, shoving his hips up and my mouth down, swallowing the huge cock to the
    sheath. Both sets of claws kneaded the furry ass, as I slurped on the fleshy
    pole. The wizard didn't last long either.. Cum poured down my throat, as he
    yelped. I swallowed, milking him good.. Paws lifted my muzzle up again, but
    this time more slowly. "For starters, Isskem would never have done what you
    just did." I gave the abused flesh a lick. "Oh, he would occasionally suckle on
    a maleness.. But not with such abandon, or with the enjoyment you show so
    openly.."

    I sighed. "Do you have humans here?" He shook his head. "Then you read minds.."
    My head was lifted up and kissed again. "Only partially.. You didn't act like a
    HanWelder. And I know Isskem was killed last night.. Or so my sigils said. So
    When I came in expecting to find a scared cub clinging to a dead body, imagine
    my surprise when I find a very much alive being instead.. Almost shook my faith
    in magic." He picked himself off the floor, and tossed me a fruit. I smelled
    it.. "I hope these aren't poisoned.. I would hate to think I murdered the
    little one.." He stopped in mid-bite. "That is another thing Isskem would not
    have said." I shrugged. "I can't change a lifetime of experiences in a few
    minutes.. The body may be different, but the mentality is the same.. So what do
    I do?" I ate, was shown what to do with the pit (Toss it out the window and see
    of you can hit somebody), and found out about bathrooms. Actually it was a
    stone chimney that went down to a place where the dung was collected and used
    as fertilizer. I was glad to have a furry butt.. Those rocks were Cold! "Well..
    There are still a few options open to us.."

    He winced again as I brushed against his penis. Hmmm.. I grabbed the tube of
    red and purple flesh. "Heal!" I commanded it. To my surprise and delight, the
    welts and tooth marks disappeared, leaving healthy skin. "Well done.." A
    reddish being stood in the doorway. Hatred burned in his eyes.. Dripped from
    his words. His name was Siguh, Keep Commander. "... Whoever or Whatever the
    hells you are." He finished. Something hit me.. "Why did you kill the one whose
    body I now inhabit?" As one who suddenly remembers something he had forgotten
    long ago, I felt a rush of energy as a lifetime of training returned.. He
    didn't even look startled. "For the good of the Keep.." The Wizard looked at us
    like a man who finds out 2 friends, whom he has known for years, are actually
    foreign spies.. "If your hatred was any stronger, you would turn to ashes. But
    no matter. You have accomplished what you set out to do.. I am no more Isskem
    than you are." That threw him a moment. "No, I have only half completed the
    job.." He drew out a short sword. "I have to kill his body.. Which has been
    somehow bewitched by the one who shall shortly follow you back to hell.." I
    waived the Wizard to one side. Then clasped my paws.

    Slid them apart as my teacher had shown me. I was now ShadowWalker, Master of
    Mist. My arms came up in the Attacking Dragon stance. Upper lip curling in a
    grimace horrifying enough to turn a weaker being to stone, I snarled "If Thou
    canst kill Me, Thine Ass is Mine!" Then leapt at the animal, jumping to one
    side as the sword slit the air where I should have been. My left arm wound
    itself around his, jerking it up. Slamming my right paw against the back of his
    head, I swept his legs out from under him. He lay full on the ground, arm
    resting against my knee. His other paw was holding my claws off his neck..
    Just. I leaned over the bruin. "Lift your sword, And I break your arm.. Lift
    your paw and I strangle you.. Do you surrender?" He struggled a moment as I
    pressed my muzzle to his.. "Lift your ass, and I'll nibble on your nuts.." Then
    tried to stab at me with the blade. I jerked him up, and smashed my paw into
    his muzzle, dislocating the shoulder. His head hit the ground, nose bleeding. I
    took the blade from his claws and tossed it onto the bed. "Heal." I said,
    slapping my paws to his snout. The trickle of crimson stopped. Lifting the
    Commander, I rolled him onto his stomach. Straddled the furred hips. "Heal."

    I slapped the back, watching the skin ripple under my paws. I rubbed my crotch
    against the furry mounds for a moment.. Then flipped him again. Shoved my claws
    into his mouth, and stood up, the creature following my paw. Before he could
    bite my fingers, I reversed them, shoving down on his tongue.. The jaws sprang
    open, as they tried to dislodge the object. "I give you your sword back..
    However, if you Ever threaten me again.. I will shove it, still sheathed, up
    your ass, Stuff the hilt into your mouth.. And roll you down the hall!" I
    pulled my fingers free and kissed him, digging wet claws into his butt. "And I
    shall want That Later.." Then I turned and retrieved the sword. About that time
    a half-dozen guards decided to shown up. My eyelids went droopy. "Siguh was
    showing me a few new sword thrusts.. But this is so tiresome." Sniggers quietly
    came from a couple of them.. "Perhaps later Commander, when I do not feel so..
    Bored." I dropped the sword so he had to jump to keep his feet intact. "And do
    get some clothes on.. We are late for eating as it is.." I snapped a pair of
    claws together. "Wizard.. Please find out What happened to my Royal
    Robekeeper.. He should have been here by now.." A sigh. "And what are all you
    gawking at? Out, Out, Out.."

    Simpering arrogance. A small creature who looked like nothing I had yet seen
    scampered in. "Ah, Sihf.. It's about time. What would I look good in today?"
    The feathered being made for the wood closet. "Anything you wear would look
    splendid, Sire.." I patted the head. My paw held the beak tightly closed. "Wait
    until we are alone.." A shudder went through the animal. "Wizard.. Please Shut
    the door behind you. I shall have to talk to the Smith about putting another
    bolt on it.." More sniggers came from behind the wooden door as it closed. My
    other paw stroked down the back, finding many semi-healed scars. "He put those
    there.." I looked down into pools of terror. Without letting go of his mouth, I
    knelt. "Isskem is dead.. I am Isskem. I am also Shadow. If I let go of you, can
    you keep silent?" A ghost of a nod. I let go.. The scream came out of his
    nostrils, as I re-clamped claws around his beak. Then slapped him so hard he
    twisted out of my grasp and sprawled onto the floor. I re-knelt shoving his
    face into my crotch. I didn't care for S/M myself, but that's what he wanted..
    If I correctly read what was oozing from every feathered pore.. Besides lust,
    that is.

    The eagerness to please, coupled with his love/hate/fear of me.. Just as the
    Guards expected to see a fop when they came running, so I was one. His tongue
    flicked over my cock. Paws gripped my legs. "Master test Sihf. Sihf know
    Master.." I shoved my erection down his throat. The creature swallowed it to
    the sheath. "Hurry, Slave.. I hunger.." He wrapped his arms around my hips,
    fingers clawing at my ass. Again, I got a mental image.. I jerked my dick out,
    and lifting his legs, thrust the wet pole into his ass. He squirmed.
    Shuddered.. Actually trilled when I pounded his butt into the stone.. Yanked it
    out of even That orifice. A few pulls on the overheated flesh did the trick..
    Cum matted feathers between his chest and crotch. He grabbed the firehose,
    taking the last spurts in his mouth. Then cleaned it well with his tongue.. I
    mashed the sticky stuff into his body, dipping a cum-soaked claw between his
    legs. A smallish penis appeared. My claws stroked it, tweaked the spiral cone.
    He shuddered, adding to the morass with his own semen. I pulled free and stood.
    His eyes shone with love.. "I Still need a robe.." He scrambled up and quickly
    dressed me. "And clean up.. You are a mess."

    I dipped a paw in the mingled cock-juices and lapped it off.. "Remind me to
    tell the Cook I would like some of this for The Massmaae Feast.." Dripping
    decadence, I left the chamber. Fa'Akl showed me the way to the Eating room. At
    least the meal was normal.. For a war. More food was worn than was eaten. I
    ducked a joint of something as it sailed past.

    * * * *

    "Was it always like this?" I said when I lay in a tub of heated water, digging
    a peel out of my ear. The Wizard nodded. "Why the frown?" "I feel hunger.." I
    growled softly, pointing out the window. "Someplace out there, beings have no
    food. And I saw enough to feed a good-sized village ruined.." I put my muzzle
    in my paws. Sighed.. Then stared into a pair of puzzled eyes. "Good Day,
    Commander. Change your mind about my offer to lap wine off your balls? Or come
    to scrub my back. And perhaps stab it.." He growled. "Since when did The
    HanWelder care how much food was wasted, or if Peasants starved?" Almost before
    he could react, I was out of the tub and had a pawful of cloth, twisting it,
    along with some chest fur. Thrusting his muzzle against mine, I stared into his
    widened eyes. "When you can listen to the cries of a starving child, And not
    care; Look upon a female who would willingly give herself to feed her family,
    and see only a whore; Sneer at a male begging crumbs.. Then you are truly
    Dead!" I growled. "Who does the Han belong to?" If it was possible, he looked
    even more startled. "The Han belongs to The Haan.. The People." Water made a
    puddle under our feet. "And Who are The People?" "We are the People.."

    I jerked him up. Drug him to the window. "They.." I flung my paw outward. "..
    are the People! Those whose backs break so we may sit and finger each other's
    cocks. Those who go hungry while More food is wasted daily in stupid games.." I
    turned, and took the offered towel. Dried myself well. "We are but caretakers
    for those who Truly own the land.." Siguh again had his sword out. "You are Not
    Isskem.." I watched, wary, but instead of trying to stab me, He knelt, laying
    it at my feet. "Once before I did this pledging body and soul to the Keep.. But
    not to it's Ruler." He placed the blade to his forehead. "But now I do so..
    Mind. Body. Soul.. All are yours to do with as you wish, Lord and Keeper of The
    Haar..." The Wizard was also on bended knee. I lifted them both up. "Then I
    abdicate.." They both fell on their furry butts, too startled for words. "I am
    not Isskem.. I have no more right to rule than this tub does.." I gave the
    metal thing a smack. "I have no experience in governing.. The only thing that
    guides me is my Master's Teachings.. My empathetic abilities, and what few
    morals I have not as yet compromised.. I am not even one of you." I got smacked
    by the flat of a sword.

    "Does your head hurt?" Trick question? "If cut, will you bleed?" I lifted my
    paw.. Red was on it from a small wound. "Your sword is sharp, Commander. My
    compliments." He nodded. "You are one of us, In body if not in Soul.." The
    Wizard held his paws to my head. "Heal.. You are mortal. And All mortals make
    mistakes.. We learn by them. The only True sin is to Not learn from our
    mistakes.. For we are then doomed to repeat them." Then he grinned. "Besides..
    The only way out of The office, HaarKeeper is by ShieldBearer.. Care to die a
    second time?" I shook my head. Then grinned myself. "Alright. But I will need
    help.. Say I have come down with something.. Fell in the bath and hit my
    head... Perhaps you should not have healed that wound so fast.. I need an
    excuse to have you two give me council.. No Thanks!" I jumped back, as the
    Commander waived his sword. Then.. "Hey!"

    * * * *

    When I came to my senses some days later, my head was just out of the bandages.
    I had fallen for one of the oldest tricks in the book - Pull the rug out from
    under your feet... The Semi-Official word was I had come close to being
    assassinated. And only the combined strengths of my Wizard, and my Commander
    First kept me alive. The creature had somehow gotten away.. The Haar were
    warned I may not be whole. But I pulled through. My first order was to get rid
    of Sihf. He went to another Lord who would keep him well beaten. I sat in bed,
    looking at the scribe, who was taking my morning commands. "Wizard, I seem to
    have a blank spot.. How are the servants fed?" The scribe looked up at me
    shyly. "When all others in the castle have their fill, then The servants eat.
    Then what is left from them is given to the peasants.." I picked up a fruit.
    Crushed it, so the pulp ran down my arm. "An edict - From now on all food is to
    be divided into shares. A equal share to all.. And I do Mean ALL who reside in
    the Har. Perhaps a bit more for the sick, elderly, and cubs.." The scribe
    forgot to write. I flung the stuff in my paw against a wall. "That for
    aristocracy.. They are like parasites.. Eating their host to death, while
    contributing Nothing!"

    I looked at the mess, then tapped the scribe's paw. "Did you get whatever I
    said?" He shook his head. "What did I say, Wizard?" "You were discussing
    sharing your lunch with the scribe.." The being, barely old enough to called
    grown, blushed deeply. "He is cute.. Don't you think so? Yes.. I think I shall
    share him. Or was that lunch.." I grinned idiotically. "Wizard, Please take
    care of the arrangements.." He bowed to me and took the scribe by the paw.
    Whispered a while to him. That one nodded.. Looked back at me, as I licked my
    paw clean.. Nodded again. The Wizard then left. The bruin closed the door,
    making sure it was bolted. He also shut the window, locking it.. Then draped
    his robe on a chair. He did have a nice body.. He sat on the bedside, nuzzling
    my arm as I fondled him. I looked around.. "No tray, Eh? Well, It looks like I
    shall have to eat You for lunch.." The bruin tried to pull away, and was tossed
    full onto the bed. I bit the furry butt, working it between my jaws. It's owner
    squealed, as I chewed on the other cheek. Finally, I grabbed a shoulder, and
    turned the animal over.

    His erection was so hard it smacked my palm, when I swatted it. Grasping it
    firmly, I kissed the male. He moaned, raking his claws along my sides. I moved
    my mouth to torture the hard nipples, sliding my paw along the slick penis. The
    creature dug his paws into the sheets, as I nibbled and licked on the other
    fleshy bump. When he seemed ready to jump out of his skin, I lifted my head and
    nuzzled the seeping cock-tip. Lapped all the sweet residues off it. I butted
    the head against my lips, and jacked on him. He groaned, gasped, shoving his
    hips up in an attempt to force the tip past my closed lips. I kissed it, claws
    wrapping around one butt-cheek. Now he really made noise! Holding him firmly, I
    continued to lap on the lollipop.. He came, semen jetting upwards, to hit the
    roof of my mouth, as I aimed the firehose at my open maw. More squirted over my
    tongue, pressed tightly against the pulsating flesh. Then I lost it.. I
    engulfed the entire bruin's groin. My upper fangs dug into his stomach, while a
    lower one snagged his ass-hole. He screeched, pressing both paws against my
    muzzle, hind paws digging in vain at the covers. My tongue painted the mouthful
    with saliva, until it was well-coated.

    Moving my jaws slowly together, I worked my maw towards it's target.. At last
    the balls were resting under my tongue, and the cock was totally buried in my
    snout. I inhaled the scent of wet fur, and swallowed.. The male gasped then
    yelped, throat muscles pulling on what cock they could get ahold of. I found
    the air passages through my nostrils were unblocked, and I inhaled slowly,
    sucking at first gently. Then more wantonly.. And finally I pulled his soaking
    nuts out of my mouth, grabbed a double-pawful of furry ass, and nursed on him
    like I hadn't eaten in a week! Up, down, Around.. I gobbled that cock like a
    crazed being. My own pole found an entrance under the stubby tail, and gave it
    a wet, sloppy nudging. "Ohhhh! Hump Me, Lord! Stick your dick in my assss.." I
    pulled the cheeks apart, and slowly allowed the thick thing to slide into the
    bear-like male. Then cum poured into my stomach, and his anus fluttered,
    sucking half my pole through it.. Not wanting to split him open, I pulled back,
    plowing in only the same amount each time. The scribe squirmed, and wriggled.
    He snarled at me, demanding I sheath my sword to the hilt in his scabbard, but
    I refused.

    His shrinking penis was allowed out of my mouth, but not without a good
    stropping with my tongue.. He grabbed my head, and jerked it down to his,
    growling "Bugger me, Male! I am not a cub who will howl in pain.. Unless this
    is what you prefe.. *Mmmpf*" I pinned his head to the sheets with my own. Then
    growled in his ear. "Be glad for what you get, Whelp.. Lest I pull out
    completely, and make you use your claws to pleasure yourself!" The only problem
    with That threat was I the fact I happened to be kneeling over him. So it was
    with no real effort the bruin unseated me, then flipped me onto my back! Before
    I could so much as gasp, he had sat down in my lap.. With a grunt, the male
    engulfed me to the thick root. The animal leaned over, moving his legs, riding
    my hips. "I have had longer ones.. And I have had bigger ones... But never such
    a combination has worked my ass before.." I looked somewhat shocked. "Did you
    think you were the first?" He leaned over and gave me an expert kiss. "If I
    tried to live on my salary as a Scribe, I would have starved long ago." He
    rotated his hips, sliding his claws over my chest. "When I was but a half-grown
    Cub, I noticed certain males found interest in my body.

    Then I found out they would pay me to do things to them." His growl was pure
    lust. "Not always in coin.. Sometimes it was a meal. Or an important friend
    with pull, and a fondness for having his nuts nuzzled under a table.. I have
    sat in many a banquet, And never saw the Faces of who was there. Crawling from
    one lap to another, I sucked, and jerked everything that was male.. Sometimes
    one of them would get on their knees, so they could butt-fuck me, claws digging
    into my ass." He moaned, bouncing on my pole. "But you blushed.. Acted like one
    who wasn't sure.." A nod. "Some of my 'clients' prefer the 'Virgin Cub'
    routine.. Other like me Wanton and lusty.." He growled and hunched against me.
    "I wasn't sure What you wanted.." He growled as I held him still for a moment.
    "But now, I don't have to act horny.. I Love Big Cocks!" Hmmm... "What would
    you say to my grabbing your ankles, and putting you in your back, so I can fuck
    you the way you would like?" His eyes went wide as I grabbed his feet, crossed
    them and using my body weight, rolled us over. He threshed around a moment,
    then calmed down when I shoved his legs over my shoulders.

    Grinning down at him, I stroked the heaving sides, and took the animal for a
    ride! Pounding his ass unmercifully. Using corkscrew motions to go as deep as
    possible.. Sometimes I hunched over him, locking my hind legs and twisting him
    up in a crescent. My cock moved but little laterally, but since I used his butt
    like a wheel's axle hub, grinding my crotch into it well, He howled like I was
    hammering him. At other times I did use the technique of 'Piledriving'..
    Pulling all the way out, to slam back in to the hilt. It takes a good sense of
    aim, and a very slick passage.. At the Last, I was rocking his cradle.. Using
    my body to pull, then push his hips, creating a motion like a rocking chair's
    runner. I shoved my head against his chest, feeling him grab my arms. Orgasm
    burned through my spine, as I flooded the male's guts with spunk. My ear was
    bitten, and claws raked my head. His ragged moan echoed in my skull. I flopped
    on top of him, spent. Neither of us moved for some time. Then I lifted my
    sweaty pelt off the being, and turned to lie on my side. I looked over the
    creature, mouth half-open, one leg flung over mine.. I was still half-buried in
    his ass. I felt him give a twitch, as I gave a tentative thrust..

    I could do it again... Nah. I stroked his sweaty chest, ruffling the fur on his
    stomach. All I got was a groan. I pulled the rest of the way out, and went over
    to a basin, cleaning myself off.. Splashed a cup over my head. That felt good!
    Making sure the scribe still breathed, I slipped a robe on, and after pressing
    muzzles for a moment, gave one last lick to his cock, balls, and not-so gentle
    bite on the abused butt-cheeks. Upon opening the door, I found a guard.. Who
    snapped to when he saw me. "Good day, Sire.." I grabbed a pawful of muscular
    butt and squeezed. "Mmmm.. Much more like it!" The bear who was standing at
    attention, got a little stiffer in his armor. "S.. Sire?" I crooked a claw, and
    as he bent, slid my tongue along the rim of his triangular ear. "Cubs tire too
    easily.. Give me a Strong Male with a firm ass you can chew on for days!" I
    grabbed the plate that shielded his genitals. "And a good pawful of balls to
    fondle.." Then I shook my head, and straightened my robe. "Carry on.." Giving
    the now thoroughly confused guard a Fatherly pat on the shoulder, I walked down
    the corridor, nodding as if listening to a conversation.

    * * * *

    Some time later, he noticed a familiar body shuffle out of the chamber.
    "Lubeg.. Haven't seen you since last Feasting." The creature turned.. He looked
    like he had been assaulted by a pack of horny Thids. "Are you alright?" A
    giggle.."My ass hasn't ached like this since the day I took on half the tower
    guards.. If his liege wishes me, I shall be in a warm bath." And turning he
    moved gingerly down the hall. "A free mouthing to any male who can give a good
    massage.." The guard suppressed a chuckle. So.. 'Insatiable' finally got more
    than enough. His butt still felt the claws digging into it. His ear was warm
    from the lick.. Damn! His dick-shield was getting tight.. Perhaps Isskem, or
    whoever it was inside that body, could be persuaded in letting a guard watch
    him sleeping. For his own protection, of course..

    * * * *

    By now it was clear to most everybody Isskem had been spirited away, And
    somebody new sat in the throne. And very few of the Haan objected.. Those that
    did found themselves in another Han.. The General who was my SwordCommander,
    grunted as I slid my paw along his thigh. "Dammit male! Can you not keep your
    mind on the business.. At.. Ha..." My sword, still sheathed, pressed against
    the furry throat. I gave the gray muzzle a smooch. "If I do what you expect,
    You would beat my tail off.." He growled. "If in the midst of a tryst, I grab
    your nuts, Which will be more important to you.. Where my sword is, or where my
    paw is?" He growled again. "Yes, such tactics are below a Knight.. But I like
    my head on my shoulders. And I intend to Keep it there.." Such logic is hard to
    argue with. We sparred again, and I kept my dirty tricks to a minimum. "You
    will never make The Order Of The Sword This way.." His disgust was obvious.
    Fa'Akl barely kept the grin off his face. I nodded, and bowed to the General.
    Siguh looked puzzled. Looked even more so when a paw tugged at his robe..
    "Return as fast as you can, And stay out of sight.. You may learn something." I
    gave my 'toy' to the Wizard.

    "Plotting behind my back, eh? Well, I have news for you.. All the love philters
    in the kingdom are safely locked up in a chest.. In My Room!" He laughed. "No
    need for such things.. When one's ardor and talent with one's paws are the talk
    of the court.." I poured cold water over my head. Shook like a dog.. "Is that
    good or bad?" He looked thoughtful.. "Both. But have no worry.. Many is the
    male who would like to climb in Your bed.." Another thought.. "And females?" He
    started. "Yes, Females. I doubt you make cubs by sticking your dick in a piece
    of clay." He nodded. "I'm not.. Married, am I?" The wizard looked a me..
    "Married? Oh, Mated. No.. Do you wish to be?" I shook my head violently. "Not
    unless it is a part of the office.. Then I think I shall let my cubs look like
    You.." I tapped the furry chest. He grinned, and gave me a two-handed sword. "I
    shall return in a candle-mark." I nodded. Then stood in the middle of the
    sparring area. As I lifted the sword, going through the motions, I became one
    with the blade. One body, one mind. Other blades parried, other weapons
    removed. Heads and paws were slapped. Knuckles rapped.. Death did not stride
    with me. Only instruction..

    This was to honor of the flat of the blade. Now the play became more serious.
    Two, Three, Four opponents.. Each bent on my life. The other side of the sword
    was honored. The tip, cutting and stabbing. The edge lopping and shearing.. Of
    a sudden my imaginary opponent became real! The dark-clad being stood, lifted
    his blade to me. I returned the greeting. "To the Blood, To the Death, or To
    the Caress.." The ears twitched inside the cowl. "Caress?" I nodded. "Whoever
    grabs the other's butt first loses.." The assassin growled. "Bastard!" I
    shrugged.. "I have no idea if Isskem's parents were mated when he was born."
    That stopped him for a moment.. Then he continued forward. "A Bet.. if I win, I
    get a night with your intact body.. The Questioners leave very little together.
    If you win, you leave alive, and untouched.." He stood a moment. Then a swift
    movement - My blade moved as fast, flicking the dart to one side. "You will
    have to do better than that to earn your gold.." The creature lifted a coated
    blade from a sheath on his back. "I have the reach.. You have the poison..
    Shall we dance?" I stepped towards the creature. He moved his blade up, then
    thrust at my foot. My paw met his, holding the tip a claws-width away from me.

    Shove as he might, the blade got no closer. I moved the poisoned thing slowly
    away, twisting it none to gently.. Then sprang back. For the better part of a
    half-mark, I crossed swords with the being.. Then flung my blade away. "Come.
    Kill me If Thou Canst!" The bruin was no idiot, he circled me warily, feigning
    a few times. I simply kept my face turned to his. "Coward! Take Thy Shamed Face
    and Untouched Arse Elsewhere.. Killer of fleas!" His scream was quite loud for
    one muzzled so. I waited until the last moment.. Then step-sided his reckless
    charge, and slammed my paw into his nose, sliding the other down to slap the
    sword from nerveless fingers. The assassin hit the ground, his weapon flying
    off to one side. I knelt and ripped the mask off him. A muzzle of white greeted
    me. I lifted the head up, holding onto his paws. "Good Day, Mortal.." He
    gulped.. "The one whose body I now inhabit thinks you are pretty.." I growled
    in an ear. The creature shuddered, but lay in my grasp. "My lust is for your
    soul, Not your body.. Although..." A paw slid down to grab his crotch, He
    turned paler, as I grinned raggedly. tapping his anus with a claw. Footsteps
    came as I pressed my muzzle against the creature who was now shivering..

    And not from cold. "Someone comes.." I snarled, teeth digging into the black
    nose. "My Masters must wait for a time.." By then Fa'Akl had stepped into the
    arena. "Isskem, are you alright?" I lifted the creature up by it's robe. "This
    came by the window.. It wants to bed me." I looked at it, as a wife studies a
    fish she intends to purchase.. Winked at my friend. "It will do.. Clean it up,
    will you Wizard?" The assassin gasped as I slammed my paws into his stomach,
    then laid him out with a double-handed hammer blow to his chin. He jerked
    straight up, then fell, quite out cold. I grinned, and patted the robed
    shoulder, leaving the arena.

    * * * *

    "Well?" Siguh looked like someone who had seen a ghost. "He is better than Most
    War-HanWeilders!" A nod. "He comes and trains like this once a week.. Sometimes
    using this," He held up the sword, long as his forearm. "Sometimes with
    Poles.." A grin. He poked the robe with a toe. The wizard disrobed the animal,
    checking for weapons.. Found nothing but a satchel of gold. "This one will be
    questioned.. Then allowed to escape." Eyebrows went up. "Escape? Oh.." He
    grinned, and rubbed his paws together. "But not before our leader gets His paws
    on him.." The wizard shrugged.

    "Sounds like you are jealous.." Siguh helped him lift the bundle. "Perhaps..
    But one thing puzzles me.. Why does he still put on the act?" Fa'Akl shouldered
    the robed creature. "What makes you think it's an act?" He left the
    CommanderFirst standing, and wondering..

    * * * *

    The white-furred male awoke with a start. He opened his eyes.. To find himself
    lying on a tub. A form stopped stroking his forehead and went to a table. He
    looked at the being. A Scribe's gold chain was around his waist. But, when he
    turned, the face was that of an expectant page. "You are lucky.. Usually spy's
    are tossed in the dungeon.. If you please Shadow, perhaps he will let you keep
    your fur, instead of making it into a rug.." The door opened and The HarnKeep
    came in. He walked over and grabbed a pawful of butt. The scribe chuckled,
    pressing himself against the paw. "What say you to a threesome.." I nibbled on
    an ear. Green eyes looked up at me in surprise.. Then lust as the offer sank
    in. I lifted a silver jug out of a cabinet. "Wine?" the bear looked like I had
    a snake in my paw. "Scribe.. Take this cup and show our guest this is nothing
    but wine.. What is your name?" "Lubeg, Sire..." He sniffed at the cup, nose
    wrinkling.. Then grinned, and drained the cup. Poured another, taking it to the
    creature in the water. He too sniffed it.. But the philter I mixed in the fruit
    extracts had nothing to do with poison. He took a swallow, finding nothing
    amiss.. I too drained a cup's worth.

    Then came over and rubbed his shoulders. He was too startled to say anything.
    "Drink.. We have all night. After that.." I shrugged, caressing the wide chest.
    Soon, his head was lolling drunkenly against my shoulder. "Lubeg, I believe our
    guest needs help getting out of the tub. Please get him dry and in bed.." The
    Scribe moved with rapidity that comes with a heightened sex-drive. Out of the
    bath, fluffed with a towel.. Then nipples, cock, balls and anus all licked to
    gleaming wetness. Then hustled to the bed. "Lubeg, why don't you make him
    'comfortable'.." I sat in a chair, looking at them. "Oooo, Yes Sire!" White fur
    and dark brown mingled as they locked muzzles, paws stroking cocks to full
    hardness, neither of them wanting to end the kiss Or let go of the other's
    maleness. I stood up and slipped my cock in between their tongues. "You 2 seem
    to need something to work on besides each other's back-teeth." A pair of paws
    gripped my ass, as twin organs slid up and down my hard dick.

    Without missing a stroke on each other my cock went into first one, then the
    other's muzzle, lips sucking on me, cleaning the pre-cum that dribbled out my
    slit. "Oh Yeah.. " My hips moved, paws digging into my butt, pleasure burning
    up my spine. The last I remember seeing was the 2 of them kissing over my cock-
    head, sucking on my slick meat, gobbling my cum as I shot.... Then a tree fell
    on top of me. When I awoke Both of them were covered in cum and pleaded not to
    be abused so when I fondled their shrunken balls. I whispered instructions into
    the scribe's ear, then walked out to Grip the guard's balls, tossing his groin
    guard skittering down the hall.. "Come." He had no choice as I half-dragged,
    half-led him down the hall by his handful of nuts to my room. "Sire, I..
    Mmmpf!" I silenced him with a kiss, peeling his armor like a hungry man with a
    lobster.

    "Please Sire I have duties.." I Growled ands shoved him onto the bed, following
    to lay with my head in between his legs. "Right now the Only duty you have is
    to Lay here and be Eaten, Understand?" He gulped and stroked my cock, nodding. I
    attacked his ass, biting it, slapping it, pinching it until he fairly screamed
    for mercy.. While my tongue drilled his tasty tail-hole making him beg for
    something else entirely.. I finally got comfortable, stroking his bruised butt,
    chewing on his balls, nuzzling his thighs. He shivered, sucking on my cock as I
    fell asleep.
    * * * *

    After the careless guard was told he would be suitably 'punished' for letting
    the prisoner slip through his grasp, and a few minor shakedowns, things got
    back to normal. Except Siguh treated me with more respect.. And I found out
    there Were Females in the court. At the Festival of Massmaae (Winter's End), I
    met the mates of the nobility, and many daughters. Who rubbed up against me
    most erotically every chance they got.. Of, course so did many Sons. And Pages.
    And Guards.. Sheesh! Speaking of guards, a few more had to be added to the list
    of those punished. So I gave them the same treatment as a common criminal..
    With a twist! The usual way of doing things is a set of stocks. You stand, head
    and fore-paws through a wooden board, and people get to throw things at you..
    Then you get beaten with a paddle. And released. This may sound like light
    fare, But - The things thrown sometimes include rocks.. Big enough to split
    even the hardest skull. And try standing, exposed to the winds, elements, and
    any horny person that comes by. Worse, The paddle is spiked. Many was the thief
    who bled to death long before the ordeal was over. My idea was to tie the male
    to a rack. Feet on floor, paws free at the wrist.

    Then passerby could, at their leisure, Use him.. Mouth, Paws, Dick, Ass..
    Whatever they desired. It was quite open for their usage. Especially after I
    had their crotch fur shaved. This alone added to their humiliation, for it
    would take weeks to grow back.. And Months to live down the excited moans that
    echoed around the halls. Shaving rings around their nipples didn't lessen the
    impact either.. Many a bruin had to be carried out, and many a dirty ballad was
    born that night. When the festivities were over, I rounded up a few helping
    paws and took the remains of the feast out to whoever wandered by. "No use
    letting it go to waste.." A creature watched us with hatred from a half-fallen
    hovel.. Until a half-nibbled loaf hit it squarely in the snout. "I forget
    none." The rat-like being made off with the prize, looking at me with
    uncertainty. Then a slap on his butt made him jump back into his 'house'.. To
    grin and peer back at me. When we had no more persons to give to, I asked one
    of the locals who could best use what was left. He took a few bearers and
    disappeared. I grinned, and returned to a warm bath. A knock came as I lay on
    my bed, finding I could read the books that gathered dust in the castle
    library. "Enter, and be welcome.." My Mentor came in, and sighed. "Wine?" He
    shook his head. Damn! Must be serious for the old Windbag not to drink.

    "What is it.." He undid a scroll and read it out loud. I stopped him halfway.
    "The Gist.." He sighed. "A challenge.." "A challenge?" The bruin nodded. "Your
    Brother seeks satisfaction on the Field. In Personal Combat." I had a Brother.
    A Jealous Brother.. Hmmm...

    * * * *

    It took a few days to get all the junk ready. Then another to march to the area
    where we were to do battle. At first it was stare at each other from our
    camps.. Then we would send insults via messenger. About three days into this
    mess, I actually got to see my 'Brother'. Finally.. He stood before me and
    sneered. I ignored the animal who barely came up to my chin.. When all his
    ranting did nothing, he pulled a dagger out and tried to stick me. I knocked
    the toy away.. Then snarling, lifted him up by his chest hair, and hit him.
    Once.. He bounced three times and lay in a heap. I retrieved the weapon from
    the grass and grasping the handle, bent the blade. Tossed it at the still
    figure. Then spat in his direction and returned to my tent. "You should not
    have done that.. Now he will wish to fight you with armor.." I smiled. "Wizard,
    Open up the trunk." Fa'Akl nodded and putting his paws on a certain box of
    iron, mumbled a few Words of Power, then lifted the hasp. "Please leave us,
    Commander." Siguh nodded and went outside. "Friend, tell me when it is time, I
    intend to rest.." The wizard crossed paws with me, then left also. I stretched,
    did my exercises, and dropped into a light sleep.

    The knock came. "They await you, Lord.." I stood. Took out what was inside the
    box and placing it on me, covered it with a robe. The sun was just about over
    head. I followed my second back to the area. My opponent in some ornamental
    junk grinned. He lifted a bread-slicer and waived it at me. I walked to my
    side, and stood a moment. "Helm, please." I took the helmet, and put it on. The
    grin faded. It vanished entirely as I undid the robe and handed it to my
    second. My armor was made of overlapping steel plates. Hard as an iron shield,
    supple as leather boots. It gleamed like a well polished cannon. I pulled my
    LongSword free from it's place on my back and strode towards my opponent. He
    went white and made some noises. "You wanted this.. Not me. I would have
    preferred terms.. Like whose bed and how many pages..." That got his ire up a
    bit. "Perverted Bastard.." And lifted his silvered blade. It looked pretty and
    Might have actually done some damage to unprotected skin.. It wouldn't even
    scratch my armor. As he found out. "Hit me.. Brother." The bruin snarled and
    did so.. His sword screeched down my breastplate, and went across one plated
    side.

    I grinned.. Whirled the double-yard of steel and whipped it over the Lord's
    head. Who ducked.. And lost his ear tips. I slammed my armored knee into his
    chin, and brought the hilt of my sword down on top of his head. His teeth
    clicked audibly.. And he fell. "The only reason you live is the Memory of our
    Father.. Disgrace that Memory again, And I will personally see the cawers feast
    well!" Then re-sheathed my weapon and left the field. I went back into the tent
    and removed the armor. Closed the trunk. Sat on the floor, cleansing myself of
    anger and disgust. Paws gripped my shoulders. "You did well.." I nodded. "Ho
    the tent.. Ehha wishes to speak with his Brother." I stood. Walked toward the
    flap. "My Lord. You are naked.." I grinned at the Wizard. "I am clothed in my
    Title, and need nothing else. Unless you think the sight of a male body will
    drive my brother insane with lust.." He shook his head and went before me. I
    opened the flap and stood in the bright day. A gasp rose up and a half-dozen
    bodies moved to cover me up with theirs. I laughed and moved them away. "I come
    before my Brother open as the day I was brought into the world.. If my body
    offends..."

    The other HanKeeper looked at me. Dropped his robe as well. Then went to one
    knee. "I have lost.. Do with me as you will." I chuckled. "One should be
    careful using such words.. It might stir thoughts of Incest in Weaker minds."
    Grins and whispers made the rounds. "However, little was lost, except a few
    inches of skin, and Pride. One returns easily. As to the other.. Sometimes a
    good slap on the bottom is the best teacher." I put my paws on the animal's
    shoulders. "You challenged me. Why I do not know.." He lifted his muzzle in
    surprise. "I do not counter, for I have no reason to. Therefore I ask you to
    let go any past hurts I have done to you. Any faults rest solely on my
    shoulders, And I shall bear them as any who is Han must. Let no animosity lie
    between us. For when we die, what worm cares who we were. They are not picky
    upon whose bones they feast. Nor does the ground, whose embrace we all find
    ourselves in, care for fault-finding, and like a Mother, loves the Guilty as
    well as the Innocent. Thief and Lord are the same to the grassy knoll. And I
    have spoken entirely too long. If I promise to keep my paws to myself, will you
    take wine with me?" He stood.

    Swallowed.. "You are not Isskem.. But whoever you be, I welcome you as My
    Brother." He clasped his sweaty chest to mine. I put my claws to his lower back
    and pulled his entire body over to press it hard against me. "Brother.." We
    embraced for a moment.. Then Ehha laughed. "You nuzzle my cheek Isskem as if
    you think I am a lover.." "Perhaps I do, especially if what I feel nudging my
    leg is as big as it seems.." I whispered in an ear. "However that is not for so
    many eyes to see.." I Grabbed his butt and squeezed it. "Let us to the tent,
    where it is cooler.. And wine awaits us." I let the startled bear go and went
    to the flap. lifting it. "Siguh, Find My Brother's General and bid him enter as
    well." A creature with many scars and half an ear, dropped head to chest, then
    went into the tent. My WarHaan, and my Brother followed. I went in last. "I
    asked the pair of you in to show my intentions above reproach. I wish to let
    past regrets and regressions lie and strengthen friendships." We passed around
    a jug of wine and drank to each other's health. By the end of the day, Ehha was
    crying on my shoulder, and had to be helped out, swearing to new ties.

    My own commander watched me pour the rest of my cup out. "Water.. I am
    light-headed now, and we still march to Insre." He nodded, then grabbed my
    muzzle and soundly kissed it! "Isskem is dead.. Long live the HanWeilder!" I
    growled.. "Keep this up and the only place you will go is to get oil from the
    chest" His teeth bit into my lip. "I don't need oil.." I mashed his nipples in
    my paws. "If you wish these to be slick, and your nuts as well, we shall need
    oil. And you had better tell the Guard you will be busy.. I would Hate to get a
    cold sword stuck up my butt as I suck on your hot cock." The bruin growled and
    slapped my butt. "I will want That later.." Then grinned and left. I went out
    and asked if somebody could spare a bucket of water. While solders ringed me, I
    lifted the wooden bucket and let the cool liquid splash all down me. Then
    shook.. Spraying the entire bunch. "Sorry.." They chuckled at their lords
    antics. I gave each furry butt a fondle.. "Remind me later to thank you
    personally.. Now let us be off. The castle is but a day's march off, and I
    expect runners to prepare a Feast to welcome our return.. With plenty of horny
    lovers to go 'Round!" They cheered, and went to pack.

    The Commander came around growling about unfinished business.. I took a robe
    and walking staff. Then belted a good sword on it. "How many nights have we
    sleep apart at the Haan? And not because my door was bolted, Either." He stood,
    gaping. "Besides, a little waiting shall swell your balls even more. Then I
    shall have more to harvest this eve.." I patted the horny creature. "Duty
    before pleasure.." He looked at me like I had just taken my head off and tucked
    it under my arm. Then shook his head.. "If I live to see another StoneCut (40
    years).." "You will be fat, have a ton of Son's Cubs pulling your ears, and be
    grumping about life." We both laughed, and helped strike the camp.

    * * * *

    I awoke from this dream, sweaty and feverish... Something stirred against my leg
    and I yawned. My hand was not a paw but a hand and it felt good under my head.
    The something stirred again... Maybe I Did own a dog, and just didn't
    remember... "My Leigre?" purred a throaty voice. A paw closed around my nuts as
    a rough tongue lapped at my morning erection. I opened my eyes to see something
    furry, feline, and male, if what was poking my toes could be considered a cock.
    He also had a collar on, with a name stamped on it. My name... "Mmmmrrrrr *Lap*
    They told me that The Hurr make the Best Masters - Now I know it is True.. I
    was afraid the poison that rival Mehh had slipped you had done you in. But I
    Knew better! And now..." He slowly arched and grinned, straddling my hips and
    pressing my hard, wet cock under his tail. "You can take HIM Slave as well..."
    We Both moaned as he took me full to the hair, but for different reasons.
    "Rrrrrrrr.. You will defeat the Mehh, and enslave him as you did me. You will
    treat us roughly and beat us and mate with us many times a night.. " 'Many
    times a night? Oh Shi..' His cat-like yowl interrupted my thoughts as he
    spurted his thin, milky-cum onto my belly.

    "Oh, Master... Your stamina exceeds all that I have known... I shall do my best
    to be worthy of your semen." He Really started working those cat-hips in my
    cock, grunting and gasping and mewling.. And all the time I can Feel this
    rumbling purr echo through his body. The tightness of his hole is incredible
    and it only takes a few minutes before I grab his hips and thrust upwards,
    spurting like there is no tomorrow.. As I lay there, exhausted, his paws are on
    my sides and he lays in me, nuzzling my chest, squeezing my still hard cock.
    "Rest my Hurr Master. Rest, and know Raeel shall be here, ready to again be
    your seed's container, until you enslave another of my brethren to do your
    bidding." And All I can think of is 'Many times a night?'

    1. Re:What OSX Users Really Want by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      OT III Auditing

      OT III pre-OT's got a reputation of being hard to run on Dianetics early on in Dianetic re-development. Only five reasons exist for this.

      (1) A person that high on OT grades audits fast and a comm-laggy Dianetic auditor can drive him up the wall.
      (2) Too quiet or too blurred TR 1.
      (3) A tendency to evaluate instead of using TR 4.
      (4) The numerousness of BT chains on the same item (the BT's being separated now) making several chains on the same item, which if not all run separately leave the PC ARC Broken with the bypassed charge of unrun BT's.
      (5) The OT II who is still on OT III and has been on it a while probably himself has no pictures and all the pictures he has are BT pictures.

      The lower grades PC (before Clear) reacts as a composite Being, all on one chain, so to speak. He is separated into himself and the individual BT's and clusters of them when he gets to OT II, and so audits differently. He easily misowns the pictures thinking they are his. The big blowdowns you get on such a PC's item indicates several BT's have it in common. A solo III however will be found to have the same item on more than one BT in many cases.

      The reason for low TA is unflat OT III phenomena. If a person has had a low TA in lower grades the keynote is to take it easy as auditor and C/S. This applies also to any auditing given on upper OT levels.

      That a PC's TA goes below 2.0 is a certain indicator of unflat OT III. He's still got some. When a person cannot handle OT III he is too much at effect. He cannot project his intention. And
      so he can't run OT III. The new OT I and OT II, particularly OT II, are designed to increase a PC's ability to project his intention to others. If he can't, they overwhelm him and you get low TA or "none on III". Harsh, overbearing auditing or life incidents have to occur, apparently, to drive the TA down.

      Overts, disagreements expressed as obsessive agreement and other lower level matters are at the bottom of this in any Being.

      But any case of low TA I have ever found has been:

      (1) Overwhelmed in life;
      (2) unable to project intention;
      (3) physically inactive;
      (4) loaded with BT's;
      (5) tends to go out of valence easily.

      In all this number (4) is the important point.

      Endless OT III and low TA are alike - inability to project intention, PC at effect. Remedy by lightly causing PC to come to cause, to be able to project his intention and thus flatten OT III. That will complete and finish off low TA.

      It does not matter whether or not you ran Incident I and II on self. The End Phenomena of III is getting rid of all body thetans. This does not necessarily include self. If you overrun III
      it will be by trying to get rid of more body thetans than there were or by then, having got rid of the others, starting in on self. So III is complete for purposes of overrun as above. If you have not done Incident I and II on self when above is achieved, attest completion and then do I and II on self.

      EP's

      No BT's left = OT III

      [Publishers' Note: It's possibly End of OT-III Document]

      Exterior = OT IV

      List of Volcanoes

      There were two zones of assembly after the thetan was implanted. Thetans of volcanoes in Asia and the Pacific were taken to Hawaii. Thetans of Atlantic areas were taken to Las Palmas.

      Asia and the Pacific

      North Japan Mt. Shasta
      South Japan San Gorgornio
      Krakajawia Indonesia
      Mount Washington Philippines
      Mount Ranier Himalayas
      Mount Hood (Hawaii)
      Andes

      Atlantic

      Tangier (Las Palmas)
      St. Helena Canada
      Kolomonjero

      (Spelling not guaranteed)
      (List may be incomplete)

      Incident II

      75,000,000 years ago on this planet. Sometimes capture was on another planet and explosion on this planet, then called Teegeeack.
      Locate area of explosion. Pictures of explosion follow it. Get original explosion. Effort to stop usually present.

      H-BOMB DROPPED ON VOLCANO
      EXPLOSION
      TERRIFIC WINDS
      THETAN CARRIED OVER PEAK
      ELECTRONIC RIBBON CAME UP
      HE STUCK TO IT
      IT WAS THEN PULLED DOWN AND HE WAS (AS PART OF A GROUP)
      IMPLANTED WITH R6
      PICTURE OF PILOT SAYING HE IS MOCKING IT UP

      (R6 materials follow, then days of pictures of God, Devil, etc.)

      (Thetan usually cognites on pilot or before (or on first incident) and leaves.)

      Incident I

      Occurs at start of track (4 quadrillion years ago).

      LOUD SNAP
      WAVES OF LIGHT
      CHARIOT COMES OUT, TURNS RIGHT AND LEFT
      CHERUB COMES OUT
      BLOWS HORN, COMES CLOSE
      SHATTERING SERIES OF SNAPS
      CHERUB FADES BACK (RETREATS)
      BLACKNESS DUMPED ON THETAN

      Effort to stop must be gotten off (sometimes to hurry). Run as an engram.

  6. Where's the software? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I can only find one piece of software listed in the section - HTML Converter 2.0.

    1. Re:Where's the software? by alfredo · · Score: 2

      give them time to get it up and running. Not that many in the Mac community know of freshmeat. I will post it on a OSX mailing list if it hasn't been posted yeat.

      --
      photosMy Photostream
  7. OSDN ripening for Apple? by Angron · · Score: 3, Interesting

    IIRC, someone here on slashdot speculated that OSDN was going to attempt to be bought out by Apple, hence the significant number of Mac-only topic icons here on slashdot, plus the dedicated apple.slashdot.org address.

    Though it makes plenty of sense for freshmeat to have a dedicated Apple section, this certainly provides more fuel for the Sell-to-Apple hypothesis...

    -A

    1. Re:OSDN ripening for Apple? by happystink · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's crazy though, they could try all they want but unless the people in charge at OSDN are brain-dead they know that Apple would never ever buy a content website/business, much less one 90% about open source. People might think /. et. al are kissing up to Apple to be bought, but in truth they're just kissing up to the general Apple fetish around here for hits. Apple doesn't buy companies often (noone does anymore) and when they do it's extremely strategic, not a matter of "aww look, some kids put apple logos all over and list OS X software after a year of ignoring it. Let's snatch them up!".

      --

      sig:
      See the "..for smart people" banners Wired runs here? Look elsewhere guys.

    2. Re:OSDN ripening for Apple? by SweetAndSourJesus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Erm, why would apple buy OSDN?

      Sure, OSDN's interest in Apple is increasing, but that's only because Apple is a Unix vendor now.

      I don't think OSDN is exactly a hot ticket, either.

      --

      --
      the strongest word is still the word "free"
    3. Re:OSDN ripening for Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Apple and Linux rumors are being spread all the time. My Favourites are was the AOL to buy Red hat rumor and the Hurd being ready for production use (they still havent got ps/2 mice working yet, and there is no hope for USB support)

    4. Re:OSDN ripening for Apple? by Yokaze · · Score: 2

      > plus the dedicated apple.slashdot.org address.

      In contrast to the dedicated yro.slashdot.org, developers.slashdot.org, bsd.slashdot.org... addresses?
      You do know that every section has its own address?

      >this certainly provides more fuel for the Sell-to-Apple hypothesis...

      Certainly. Furthermore, Apple hasn't sued the hell out of OSDN for makeing the Apple section look like Aqua(TM)(C)(R).

      Maybe OSDN should consult NASA on these matters.

      >someone here on slashdot speculated that OSDN [...]
      This is ground-breaking news. Instead of posting a well-informed comment, purely based on facts, someone speculated.

      Couldn't it just be that due to MacOs X and iPod and the like, some geeks got hooked up to Apple?

      --
      "Between strong and weak, between rich and poor [...], it is freedom which oppresses and the law which sets free"
    5. Re:OSDN ripening for Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, why exactly would Apple buy them just because they have a webpage???

      Hey Apple, my webpage links to yours, buy me now!!! LOL!

      Is the Open Source business model, kiss butt then profit?????

      Mod me down bitches.

  8. Platform favouritism by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1, Interesting

    A Mac section but refusing to list Windows software? Why the bias towards one platform?

    If Freshmeat isn't going to restrict itself to Unix OSes, they ought to allow submitted software for all platforms. Yes, Mac OS X does have a lot of Unix software you can run on it, but the same is true of Windows with or without Cygwin. Both platforms have their own weird microkernel and various layers on top, of which some provide a Unix-like API.

    Allowing Windows software on Freshmeat would be very useful in practice - I don't just advocate it out of some sense of 'fairness'. There must be many Freshmeat users who have to use a Windows PC at work and would like somewhere to look up software. And the increasing number of Windows-based free software projects could do with somewhere to make announcements.

    --
    -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    1. Re:Platform favouritism by SocietyoftheFist · · Score: 1

      Uhhh Ed... Mac OS X is a 'Unix like' Operating System based on BSD, the GUI isn't X but X isn't 'Unix' either.

    2. Re:Platform favouritism by JoeGrind · · Score: 1

      Are you trying to say that you don't feel there are enough sites where one could find information on Windows software? There's tucows.com, download.com, and a half a dozen more. These are only the ones I can recall off the top of my head, and keep in mind, I haven't even had use for them in quite a while.

      I don't think you should be overly concerned that Windows users are being left out in the the cold. I think you're argument for fairness would have been a stronger one.

    3. Re:Platform favouritism by nmg · · Score: 2, Informative

      You mean like this?

    4. Re:Platform favouritism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Funny how the Windows post got marked as flamebait..what do the eds have a preprogrammed bot that marks all windows post as flaembait?

    5. Re:Platform favouritism by TellarHK · · Score: 5, Insightful

      All OSX really is involves an updating of NextStep (for good or ill), and a replacement of X11 with something more bulletproof using interface guidelines. Was NextStep *nix? Nobody I know disputes it. Why're you disputing OSX? Because it's proprietary? That horse has been beaten to death, and nobody hammers on SGI or Sun for proprietary OS'es. Is it because of Aqua being closed source? Okay, so compile (or download the binary for) Xdarwin and use regular X apps. Of course there you have to worry about dependencies, and libraries for GTK, window managers...

      I hope more people re-engineer X11 apps with a Cocoa frontend. Or, perhaps someone ought to start a project similar to WINE, but for the Cocoa API? Just don't put the look and feel in exact, and do it for interoperability... who knows, maybe you can slip under Apple's legal radar.

      Or not. Bleah.

    6. Re:Platform favouritism by Gehenna_Gehenna · · Score: 1

      Not for anything, but I run X on top of Aqua for apps like Gimp, abiword, and xmms. I'm trying to d-load KDE3 to help mange my unix-y stuff, but I'm not having a whole ot of success yet.

      --

    7. Re:Platform favouritism by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      The kernel isn't Unix, the GUI isn't Unix. Okay, maybe it qualifies as 'Unix' by having some FreeBSD-derived code in the middle somewhere. The point of whether Mac OS X is 'Unix' or not isn't really important here... I just wanted to suggest that Freshmeat's traditional policy of listing software only for 'Unix-like operating systems' is a bit fuzzy around the edges.

      Windows with Cygwin is arguably a 'Unix like' OS based on GNU... you can interpret the term as loosely or as strictly as you want.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    8. Re:Platform favouritism by Ed+Avis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I mean to say there aren't enough *good* sites where you can find out about Windows software. Both Tucows and download.com are useless compared to Freshmeat - they don't seem to carry fields like project licence or release history, don't have good project summaries or comments, and the site layout isn't nearly as crisp.

      I'm more interested in free software for Windows than the latest shareware. Those two sites are more oriented towards binary-only software and towards users rather than developers. Freshmeat is pretty much perfect, at least it is better than any other site I've found, except for the small detail that it won't carry Windows software.

      If anyone knows of a comparable site to Freshmeat but dealing with the Windows platform, please do post details.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    9. Re:Platform favouritism by Horny+Smurf · · Score: 0, Informative
      Or, perhaps someone ought to start a project similar to WINE, but for the Cocoa API? Just don't put the look and feel in exact, and do it for interoperability... who knows, maybe you can slip under Apple's legal radar.

      Yeah... it's called GNUstep. NeXT and Sun created the OpenStep specification a few years ago (before NeXT became Apple, and Sun decided Java as the future). The core (libFoundation) is currently about 99% done (with an occasional bug fix). The gui portion (libAppKit) is about 80% done.

    10. Re:Platform favouritism by WPIDalamar · · Score: 5, Funny

      What makes a unix-like os unix-like?

      Bash/tcsh/sh/*sh ? OSX Has it
      X11? OSX has it
      Unix kernel? Got that too
      ssh? Yup
      Stability? Yup
      Bad UI that's hard to use and not fully intergrated? Hmm... maybe OSX has a ways to go.

      Hell... it *should* be possible to port any unix app to darwin and run it in an xserver on OSX.

    11. Re:Platform favouritism by entrox · · Score: 5, Informative

      Or, perhaps someone ought to start a project similar to WINE, but for the Cocoa API?

      I really don't know why, but GNUStep doesn't seem to be very popular. GNUStep is an implementation of the OpenStep specification and they even track changes from Apple! It's what you are looking for - with a little effort, applications can be made to compile under both GNUStep and Cocoa (completely legal too, since OpenStep is open(duh)). Foundation seems to be pretty much complete and AppKit lacks just a few Apple-specific things like Drawers and Sheets (which will be added at some point in the future).

      Really, GNUStep needs a little more exposure - I switched to a Mac, but I still think GNUStep is great and could be something better than GNOME/KDE.

      --
      -- The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'.
    12. Re:Platform favouritism by Ed+Avis · · Score: 2, Informative

      Freshmeat lists projects which run on Unix and also happen to run on Windows... but they won't allow Windows applications, even those that are free software. Maybe nowadays you could sneak some in by compiling them against winelib and calling it a Unix port (as happened for PuTTY).

      Indeed, the site doesn't even allow a link to download the Windows version or to give more information about a Windows port. In the release information the field for entering a zipfile URL says 'It is not intended for any Win32 version of the software'. Yet there is a separate field for a Mac OS X package. One platform is encouraged, another is explicitly forbidden. I don't pretend to understand why.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    13. Re:Platform favouritism by skt · · Score: 2

      they have listed windows software for a while.. ntrawrite, for example? It may not have its own section, but the database and software allow you to filter by OS..

    14. Re:Platform favouritism by Ed+Avis · · Score: 2

      Bash / tcsh: not shipped with Windows but you can get them from Cygwin or DJGPP.

      X11: not included with Windows - but IIRC an X server is not included with Mac OS X either. Has this changed? You can certainly get X servers for Windows.

      Unix kernel: here I have to disagree with you. Mac OS X is based on the Mach microkernel, I think, which is rather different to the classical Unix kernel. It's closer to NextStep or even Minix than it is to traditional Unix.

      ssh: but that's just an application isn't it? Ports of ssh exist for the Mac, for Windows and for a whole bunch of other platforms.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    15. Re:Platform favouritism by Ed+Avis · · Score: 2
      Hey, you're right! NTRawrite is a program which runs only on Windows, and it has a Freshmeat entry. But the Freshmeat FAQ says:
      Many people submit information to freshmeat regarding software that only runs on the Win32 platform. Such people sometimes become confused when we reject such submissions, since they are under the impression that freshmeat will list any Open Source project. It is true that freshmeat is a big supporter of Open Source, but there are a few problems that would result if we did not limit freshmeat to software for the Unix-like platforms.
      Perhaps this one project slipped through the net?
      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    16. Re:Platform favouritism by CoolVibe · · Score: 2
      Unix kernel: here I have to disagree with you. Mac OS X is based on the Mach microkernel, I think, which is rather different to the classical Unix kernel. It's closer to NextStep or even Minix than it is to traditional Unix.

      And that's where you are off base. You are not totally wrong, but you're not right either. Yes, OS X/Darwin uses Mach, but it' s hardly used as a microkernel. Sure, you can have mach threads, but the BSD subsystem sits next to Mach, on the bare metal. The BSD stuff isn't done like a personality, like you would expect with a Mach MK.

    17. Re:Platform favouritism by Spencerian · · Score: 2

      Not that this hasn't been hashed around before, but Mac OS X uses XNU, which has elements of the Mach microkernel but is, in effect, more like a typical kernel found in other UNIX-styled operating systems.

      X Window is not included with Mac OS X, but you can install it just by downloading a binary installer from XDarwin or compile it from the main XFree86 distribution, which supports Mac PPC hardware now.

      In fact, if you really want to, why not build your own Darwin kernel?

      --
      Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
    18. Re:Platform favouritism by nullard · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, according to the owners of the UNIX name, OS X is a UNIX. It is not "*nix" or "unix-like." OS X is UNIX. Period. I don't recall the link at the moment, but your point has been proven false repeatedly. Search for the link if you like.

      Since OS X is a UNIX, it should be included as a category on Freshmeat. I'm glad it finally is.

      --


      t'nera semordnilap
    19. Re:Platform favouritism by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      Thank you for the correction. So... if the BSD subsystem runs 'next to' Mach rather than as a personality on top of the microkernel, does this mean you could in principle run only BSD processes on your Mac and not use Mach at all?

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    20. Re:Platform favouritism by Anonym0us+Cow+Herd · · Score: 1

      A Mac section but refusing to list Windows software? Why the bias towards one platform?

      A short, simple, insightful answer: Because one of the platforms is made by Microsoft. Geez, man, get with the times. :-)

      --
      The price of freedom is eternal litigation.
    21. Re:Platform favouritism by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      If you want to get pedantic about it, Windows NT includes a POSIX subsystem so Windows is a Unix also. Maybe not UNIX(tm), but that is a lawyer thing.

      IIRC even VMS once included a compatibility layer to make it qualify as 'Unix'.

      You say 'Since OS X is a UNIX, it should be included as a category on Freshmeat.'. But I don't see how that follows; AIX for example is not given its own category on Freshmeat.

      You can base your definition of Unixness on legal wrangling and trademarks - in which case Linux would not be included. Or you can base it on tick-list conformance to POSIX standards and certification - in which case Windows NT would be included. Or you can take some position where you look at a range of factors like the kernel, the shell and user interface, whether Unix-like tools and applications are included, and source compatibility with Unix software.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    22. Re:Platform favouritism by CoolVibe · · Score: 2

      Exactly. You can bypass Mach alltogether if you'd want to.

    23. Re:Platform favouritism by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      Yeah, you can also run an X server on top of Windows and port a whole bunch of X11 software (normally using Cygwin, but sometimes without).

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    24. Re:Platform favouritism by 1010011010 · · Score: 2


      Freshmeat is about Unix software. Mac OSX is Unix. Windows is not.

      --
      Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
    25. Re:Platform favouritism by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      So how is the filesystem managed? I imagine there are some applications which run on top of Mach (with layers like 'Mac Classic' in between) and some BSD applications. Yet they share the same filesystem.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    26. Re:Platform favouritism by yack0 · · Score: 2

      > If Freshmeat isn't going to restrict itself to Unix OSes,

      % uname -a
      Darwin Johns-Computer.local. 6.2 Darwin Kernel Version 6.2: Tue Nov 5 22:00:03 PST 2002; root:xnu/xnu-344.12.2.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC Power Macintosh powerpc

      http://www.daemonnews.org/200104/bsd_family.html
      indicates that OS X is a kind of UNIX.

      Apple indicates (http://www.apple.com/macosx/jaguar/unix.html):
      " The most widely-distributed UNIX-based operating system, Mac OS X offers a unique combination of technical elements to the discerning geek, such as the fine-grained multithreading of the Mach 3.0 kernel, tight hardware integration and SMP-safe drivers, as well as zero configuration networking. Jaguar integrates features from state-of-the-art FreeBSD 4.4 and GCC 3.1 into Darwin, the Open Source base of Mac OS X, to provide enhanced performance, compatibility and usability. "

      It quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and looks like a duck, I think it's a duck.

      --
      -- There is no sig line, only Zuul.
    27. Re:Platform favouritism by nullard · · Score: 1
      Now you say:

      You can base your definition of Unixness on legal wrangling and trademarks - in which case Linux would not be included. Or you can base it on tick-list conformance to POSIX standards and certification - in which case Windows NT would be included. Or you can take some position where you look at a range of factors like the kernel, the shell and user interface, whether Unix-like tools and applications are included, and source compatibility with Unix software.


      This statments supports OS X's inclusion in Freshmeat, since by either of your standards, Mac OS X is a UNIX.

      However, earlier, you said:

      If Freshmeat isn't going to restrict itself to Unix OSes, they ought to allow submitted software for all platforms. Yes, Mac OS X does have a lot of Unix software you can run on it, but the same is true of Windows with or without Cygwin. Both platforms have their own weird microkernel and various layers on top, of which some provide a Unix-like API.


      That statment implied that OS X is not even unix-like, much less a UNIX(tm).

      Since OS X is the UNIX(tm) with the largest share of the desktop market, would it be prudent for a site like Freshmeat to have an OS X section?

      Remember what Freshmeat is:

      freshmeat maintains the Web's largest index of Unix and cross-platform software, themes and related "eye-candy", and Palm OS software. Thousands of applications, which are preferably released under an open source license, are meticulously cataloged in the freshmeat database, and links to new applications are added daily.

      By your own statements, OS X fits the bill, but Win32 does not.
      --


      t'nera semordnilap
    28. Re:Platform favouritism by Panix · · Score: 5, Informative

      Sorry man, you are actually wrong again =) The kernel of Mac OS X is something called Darwin, which is heavily based on *BSD, and specifically is highly inspired by FreeBSD. It is 100% UNIX. Not like Windows+cywin, since the kernel of OS X is actually a 100% fully blown UNIX. People are running it on x86 hardware too!

      You also say that "the GUI isn't UNIX." Well, I challenge you to tell me of a GUI that *is* UNIX. UNIX and windowing systems have nothing to do with each other. You need to have a better understanding of the issues before you blast Freshmeat for this.

      Freshmeat's policy of UNIX-like operating systems holds perfectly true here. OS X is as much a UNIX as Linux, FreeBSD, AIX, Solaris, or OpenBSD.

      And, you can't interpret "UNIX-like" loosely enough to call Windows + Cygwin UNIX. I don't even want to have to argue that =)

    29. Re:Platform favouritism by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      The two criteria I listed - trademarking and POSIX - both classify Mac OS X as Unix. But they are clearly inadequate, since the first excludes Linux and the second includes Windows NT. At least, they are inadequate if you're trying to find a classification that justifies including Mac software but excluding Windows software.

      I agree that Mac OS X should be included in Freshmeat. But not because a panel of experts has decided to classify the system as 'Unix'. Include it in Freshmeat because it's a good OS that many people use, and there's a lot of software for it!

      My statement pointing out similarities between Mac OS X and Unix was not intending to show that OS X isn't Unix-like. Although it did show that the definition of Unix-like *depends on what criteria you choose*.

      My whole argument is that the term 'Unix-like' is open to a lot of interpretation and can be used more as an excuse for including or excluding a particular platform - rather than as a logical test determining what platforms to pick. There are different definitions, some of them include the Macintosh, some even include Windows.

      Lastly, I was suggesting that Freshmeat could become 'an index of useful software' rather than 'an index of Unix and cross-platform software'.

      I guess the interesting test is when someone submits a Mac Classic application which happens to run on Mac OS X. That would definitely not be Unix software, any more than a Windows app which happens to run under Wine (and at least Wine is itself moderately cross-platform and available on several Unixes).

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    30. Re:Platform favouritism by Ed+Avis · · Score: 2

      I was using the word Unix (not UNIX) loosely to mean the whole package of tools you normally expect on a Unix box - which includes the X window system, a C compiler and development tools like bison which are associated with Unix systems, perhaps an ssh client and server... it's a fairly loose definition I admit.

      Perhaps the best definition of 'Unix' is that from Debian's definition of an important package - an important package is one where an experienced user sitting down at a box and finding it lacking this package would grumble and ask 'where the heck is foo?'. So you or I might say 'where the heck is awk?' if we found a supposedly Unix-like system which lacked it. Therefore having awk is some part of being a Unix system (though not the most important). X11 is another part, I believe.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    31. Re:Platform favouritism by Ed+Avis · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Replying to my own post, I think a better example than Mac OS X is PalmOS. There's no way that you could reasonably count PalmOS as a Unixlike operating system (or at least, any such definition would be so broad it would have to include almost any modern OS). Yet Freshmeat happily lists PalmOS-only software. Windows software? Oh no, we can't have that, this is a Unix site. Please, Freshmeat, consider ditching the Unix bias (particularly as a large chunk of Mac OS X applications will not run on any other Unix system) and accepting submissions for software running on all operating systems, even that one from Redmond we're not supposed to like.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    32. Re:Platform favouritism by Optikal · · Score: 1

      OS X (or rather the Darwin underpinnings) comes with both GCC and an SSH server and client.

      2 out of 4 ain't bad, though X11 can be installed through certain means. This brings it up to 3 out of 4. Alas, I don't know what bison is, as I'm not a developer.

    33. Re:Platform favouritism by otis+wildflower · · Score: 2, Interesting

      MY definition of a 'Unix' system is a computer which I can SSH to and install software like this:

      ./configure && make && make install

      And it works.

      OS X qualifies. You don't need X-windows to be a Unix system: many of my Linux boxes have X explicitly removed, to save space and prevent sploits. All the tools are available. Jaguar even includes bash now, my earlier os x needed bash built from ports (yes, you could use FreeBSD ports on OS X, though I think that went away in favor of fink).

      I've worked with AIX, SunOS, Solaris, HP-UX, Digital Unix, IRIX, OpenBSD, Linux, and FreeBSD. IMEAO OSX qualifies as a fully-fledged member of the Unix fraternity. Don't let the fact that it's easy to use and pretty fool you. It's kinda like IRIX without all the security flaws, frankly.

    34. Re:Platform favouritism by transiit · · Score: 2

      The kernel is Mach.
      Not Unix.

      Darwin refers to the userland stuff, and it seems a bit odd to equate "heavily based" with "100%".

      Quartz clearly isn't unix, but that doesn't necessarily mean that X isn't either.
      Historically, X is the unix GUI, and has as much justification for being considered part of a full-fledged unix system as say, 'tar'.

      As for freshmeat deciding this warrants its own section, I could care less. Just another category for me to filter out. I would not consider this newsworthy by any means, though. Maybe if they were specifically excluding OS X packages, or excluding everything else except OS X, but not this. This lands in importance just above "Freshmeat fixed a typo" and just below "Freshmeat redesigned the look of the site again"

      -transiit

    35. Re:Platform favouritism by nullard · · Score: 1

      My whole argument is that the term 'Unix-like' is open to a lot of interpretation and can be used more as an excuse for including or excluding a particular platform - rather than as a logical test determining what platforms to pick. There are different definitions, some of them include the Macintosh, some even include Windows.

      Actually, no (reasonable) definition of "Unix-like" excludes OS X, wheras most exclude Win32.

      The only way to exclude OS X from unix-like operating systems is to ignore the fact that Mac OS X is UNIX(tm) and demand X11 out of the box. X11 is not a requirement for *nix. Not all *nixes include any GUI, and some use their own systems. Of course, any definition hinging on X11 excludes Win32 as well. I challenge you to find a widely accepted definition of "Unix-like" that includes Win32 and excludes Mac OS X.

      My point is that Mac OS X unquestionably fits in on freshmeat. It's inclusion does not alter theirs standards for inclusion. Win32 does not seem to fit in. You think it does, but it does not match the description on their about page.

      --


      t'nera semordnilap
    36. Re:Platform favouritism by Chris+Mar · · Score: 1

      OS X comes with Flex and Bison, and most other tools you expect from a real unix.

    37. Re:Platform favouritism by cbv · · Score: 1
      I really don't know why, but GNUStep doesn't seem to be very popular.

      I see two reasons

      • Because it's completely written in Objective C, which people are just beginning to "rediscover"
      • Because it isn't backed by companies like SUN backs GNOME (which is a good thing_TM...IMHO)

      ...but I still think GNUStep is great and could be something better than GNOME/KDE

      It already is. Compared to GNOME, there is no library mess^Wconfusion like GTK, GTK--, GTK++ and whathaveyou, and compared to KDE, it doesn't look like it's trying to re-implement the look and feel of Windows ;-)

    38. Re:Platform favouritism by chrsbrwn · · Score: 1

      Note that freshmeat started as a directory of opensource unix software. For many people (including myself) that is still it's primary function. There are already a million search sites for Win32 free and shareware applications; there is no need for freshmeat to turn into another one.

      As to windows opensource software, the most important entry, Cygwin , is there. Additionally, there are a lot of other crossplatform programs that happen to compile and work on windows listed under the Trove Windows category.

      And a somewhat facetious aside... Windows NT/2000/XP whatever, despite their somewhat POSIX compliance, and the availability of Cygwin/DJGPP, are still not an acceptable Unix to some of us (meaning me :). The primary lack is that of a decent terminal (one that supports vector fonts, full VT100 emulation, easy window size changes, etc.). Note that I am talking about a local terminal... for remote connections, you can use Putty, which is relatively decent. The two "best" ways that I have found to get a decent term on Windows are:

      • Install Cygwin, setup up sshd and ssh in to localhost with Putty.
      • Install X11 of one kind or another, and use an XTerm
      I don't find either of those a very satisfactory or clean solution, but they can make working on Windows a little more livable to Unix head like myself. Note that Mac OS X has a decent terminal application installed by default, /Applications/Utilities/Terminal.app, which supports TrueType fonts, multiple encodings, easy window resizing, saved settings, etc. This makes Mac OS X a much more usable Unix system out of the box.
    39. Re:Platform favouritism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows is not a Unix platform. OS X definately is. If we consider a half-ass effort like Linux to be a UNIX platform, then OS X most definately qualifies.

    40. Re:Platform favouritism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm more interested in free software for Windows than the latest shareware. Those two sites are more oriented towards binary-only software and towards users rather than developers. Freshmeat is pretty much perfect, at least it is better than any other site I've found, except for the small detail that it won't carry Windows software.

      Download.com and Tucows are just as happy to carry GPL windows software as anything else, so long as it's made available in an easy to install format...

      I think the problem you are finding is actually that all of the open source aware developers are running, not walking, away from windows. People develop open source software because they have a passion for it. Companies develop wintel software because there is a market for it. If you really want to use OSS for more stuff, you should use a open source OS. Thats where all the cool OSS stuff is going to show up first :)

    41. Re:Platform favouritism by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      I agree that Win32 does not fit in with what's listed on Freshmeat's About page. I would suggest allowing Windows software on the site - in which case that web page would change too.

      I'm still not entirely happy about Mac OS X for this reason. A typical Mac OS X application - like, say, Microsoft Word for Mac OS X - will not work on any other Unix system. Even if the source were available it wouldn't work. (Unless someone who knows more about GNUstep can correct me on this.) So you have a 'Unix' system where most of the applications will not run on any other 'Unix' system. That seems wrong somehow.

      Does Freshmeat accept application entries for Macintosh programs that do not use any Unix APIs, do not run on any Unix system other than the Mac, and do not follow a Unix style of user interface? If so, how does this qualify as 'Unix software'?

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    42. Re:Platform favouritism by larry+bagina · · Score: 1
      I daresay that SUN's "support" of gnome is irrelevant. GNOME was developed and released without their blessing, SUN adopted it after it was already proven.

      OF course, GNUstep dates back to 95 or 96, and was an official GNU project before GNOME was. But GNUstep was much slower to develop, obviously. When it is done, though, it holds more promise (in the same way HURD does). IMHO, of course

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    43. Re:Platform favouritism by Liedra · · Score: 1

      if it only runs on Windows, please drop the editors a line (from the contact page on freshmeat). We like to keep our database as clean as possible wrt Windows-only projects!

      - liedra (liedra at freshmeat dot net)

    44. Re:Platform favouritism by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      Hmm... I would say that Cygwin shouldn't be on the site since it runs only on Windows, but I guess it counts as a kind of 'Unix kernel' by itself so it's worth listing on a soi-disant Unix software site.

      I agree that Windows is not an acceptable Unix even with Cygwin... but give me an unacceptable Unix over 'no Unix at all' any day :-P. If you have to use a Windows box then Cygwin and the related programs help make it usable. It would be very handy to have Freshmeat list all the free software which is available on Windows (and not just projects which have or are Unix ports).

      Several years ago I installed a crappy X server (the now-payware MI/X) on a Windows box and was amazed to find that a local xterm running in the X server was much much faster at scrolling than NT's own terminal window. I agree that a decent local terminal is lacking.

      Pehaps PuTTY could be modified to start a local connection and run text-mode programs... the trouble is that so many text-mode programs don't use ANSI codes to update the screen but rather some kind of direct access (either because they are DOS programs, or by using some kind of screen update API), so they cannot be tunnelled over a text connection. You'll find this out if you try to telnet or ssh to a Windows box and run some familiar apps like edit.com.

      Is there a Windows X server which displays each window as a native window, rather than having the whole desktop in one window? I think this is called 'rootless' mode. I know about Exceed which does a good job but is payware. If there is a free X server which can make individual windows, then running xterm locally might be bearable.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    45. Re:Platform favouritism by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      It's easy for the Freshmeat editors to weed out the Windows-only projects, at least for those that have Trove categorization. If they want to delete NTRawrite from the database they can. For consistency, they ought also to delete all the PalmOS-only applications and anything else which doesn't run on a Unix system.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    46. Re:Platform favouritism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The kernel of Mac OS X is something called Darwin."

      I think you mean xnu.
      Darwin is the "free" version of OSX.

    47. Re:Platform favouritism by Graymalkin · · Score: 2

      The file system is handled by the BSD part of the kernel. You use mount to mount disks just like you would in any other BSD. Classic is really a virtual machine that runs an instance of OS9. Being just another userland process Classic accesses the file system just like any other program.

      --
      I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
    48. Re:Platform favouritism by Graymalkin · · Score: 2

      FreeBSD does not come with X as part of its base system, it is a port you have to add. FreeBSD is a Unix. MacOS X does not come with X as part of its base system, you have to apt-get, make install, or drag from a disk image later to add it. According to you MacOS X is not a Unix. I don't understand your logic.

      --
      I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
    49. Re:Platform favouritism by ZigMonty · · Score: 2
      This isn't completely accurate but here is a breakdown of XNU (Darwin's kernel):
      • Mach - handles scheduling, VM and probably a couple of other things.
      • BSD (Mostly FreeBSD code) - Filesystems, Network stack, Posix stuff, etc.
      • Apple stuff - IOKit (device drivers), lots of glue and general modifications.

      You can't just take out Mach and expect it to still work. You wouldn't have any Virtual Memory! However, you could write another scheduler etc, and apple probably will at some point. The Mach and BSD sections of XNU should not be considered separate. BSD processes *are* Mach tasks, they just have a bit more semantics. Apple's insistence on saying "Mach" all the time is pure marketing. Forget it is there.

      Apple tries to keep the BSD stuff synced with FreeBSD as much as possible and makes lots of modifications to everything. XNU is no more a microkernel than Linux is. They both use modules (called Kernel Extensions in Darwin) but are pretty monolithic.

    50. Re:Platform favouritism by ZigMonty · · Score: 2

      Does Freshmeat accept application entries for Macintosh programs that do not use any Unix APIs, do not run on any Unix system other than the Mac, and do not follow a Unix style of user interface? If so, how does this qualify as 'Unix software'?

      If it runs on a Unix machine it is Unix software. An XWindows program will not run on a Unix that doesn't not have an X Server installed. What about a Gnome app on a KDE only Linux workstation? You can't judge Unixness based on what APIs it supports. Gnome apps are no more unix than Carbon apps are.

      Open Source != Unix. Just because the carbon API hasn't been ported to Linux doesn't make Carbon apps any less "Unix" than say a Qt app. The real problem with your line of thinking is that there isn't a standard UNIX API when it comes to GUIs. "Unix applications" don't exist. OpenStep apps exist, Gnome apps exist, Motif apps exist, etc.

      BTW, how is having a Mac-only app on Freshmeat any worse than something Linux only, such as a kernel module? Does a bit of software have to run on every single Unix distro out there before it is accepted? There is plenty of unportable, Linux-only (sometimes Linux-x86 only!) software out there. A lot of it is on Freshmeat.

    51. Re:Platform favouritism by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      You have to wonder why Apple bothered with Mach at all, why they didn't just take FreeBSD. Perhaps management or hired ex-Next developers were committed to the idea that microkernels are kewl.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    52. Re:Platform favouritism by Ed+Avis · · Score: 1

      It's a fair point, why is an app built using the GNOME libraries any less platform-specific than one built with Carbon? I would say because GNOME itself is portable (both in theory and in practice) while Carbon is tied to one platform and operating system, and not available on Unix in general.

      'If it runs on a Unix machine it is Unix software' - by that definition Microsoft Office is Unix software since you can run it using Crossover Office (and almost as well using Wine).

      I have this vague notion of a program fitting into the whole 'Unix thang'. So if for example someone implemented a new version of getty which ran only on Mac OS X, it would be Unix software. But a Mac Classic application which can also be run on OS X via an emulation layer is not Unix software. This definition is not much good, I admit - but I think your definition is too broad to be useful. Perhaps we can conclude that 'Unix software' is not something you can define exactly.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    53. Re:Platform favouritism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Open Source != Unix.

      Unix == Open Specification. That's the #1 principle of Unix culture.

      That means non-proprietary multi-vendor APIs that are fully documented and have no limits on reverse engineering. The core promise of UNIX is that's it's Open and there's no software lock-in.

      Now, you could make the argument that OpenStep/Cocoa is very much part of the Unix culture, by the above definition. But Carbon? It's not anymore Unix than WineLib or WABI is.

    54. Re:Platform favouritism by ZigMonty · · Score: 2

      You got it exactly right, except more so. It has been said that NeXT bought Apple for a negative amount of money. Steve Jobs was the CEO of NeXT. How often is the CEO of the bought company made CEO of the buyer? Mac OS X is the next version of OpenStep, with a lot of Mac stuff thrown in to keep us happy. It is not a complete rewrite and NeXT used Mach because it seemed like a good idea at the time. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with Apple's code as it stands. They worked around pretty much all of Mach's problems. It is important to realise that Apple used Mach's code, not its philosophy. You won't find a microkernel in OS X, ignore what Apple marketing tells you. Having said that, I see Darwin getting closer to FreeBSD as time goes on, mainly because Mach is a dead project.

  9. Note, Freshmeat & Slashdot are both owned by O by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    They are also looking to aquire Eh?, since it is very popular site also read by the majority f slashdot reader

  10. VersionTracker is why it took so long. by TellarHK · · Score: 5, Informative

    One of the things that's kept the Mac software distribution under the radar of most sites like FreshMeat is the fact that for quite some time they've had VersionTracker doing quite well at it. VersionTracker's just starting to get into the PC aspect of things, and remains highly Mac-centric even though PalmOS software is supported as well. VersionTracker may be a pay service, but I discovered a very nice set of features is available with the "Pro" subscription for $50 a year. Not only do you get the daily list of new software updates, but a nifty little application to run on your machine that acts as a new app ticker. Quite nice. But the really nice part is the fact that for your $50, you get 10 licenses and are able to use the Pro software on both PC and Mac platforms.

    Maybe someone ought to look into getting a *nix section started with VersionTracker?

    1. Re:VersionTracker is why it took so long. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      VersionTracker whitens your teeth and helps you sleep better at night!

      VersionTracker eliminates unpleasant odors and keeps your cat happy!

      VersionTracker stays crunchy in milk and doesn't melt in your hand!

      VersionTracker grips tight and stays bright!

      VersionTracker outperforms any other product in its class!

      VersionTracker helped me earn MILLIONS in just the first week! Thanks VersionTracker!

  11. All I got to say is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    ...in your face LINUX! W00T! MacOS X users can now officially stop bathing! We are now geeks and not just creative professionals!

    Watch out RMS, Hubbard's stank is going to bring tears to your eyes. *BSD is dying...my fsckin' ash it is!

    1. Re:All I got to say is... by CmdrTaco+on · · Score: -1

      You, sir, need to find God and baby Jesus, and leave that Muhammed behind. The sooner you do the better.

      --

      saru mo ki kara ochiru

    2. Re:All I got to say is... by ryochiji · · Score: 2
      >MacOS X users can now officially stop bathing!

      Uh...wait. So you're telling me that we were supposed to be bathing this whole time?! Oh my god! Why didn't anyone tell me this earlier?

    3. Re:All I got to say is... by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 2

      Get your geek-girl an Open Source Thong!

      How come they're only available in medium and large? Are all the smalls and extra smalls sold out or something?

      Hello? Uh, hello?

      --

      I write in my journal
  12. I own an apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    I own an apple i own an apple. Apple apple apple I switched my laptop to an apple!

    By the way guys, I own an apple.

    And dont forget: I own an apple. Apple apple apple bo bapple.

    This is exciting news because I own an apple.

    Love,
    CmdrTaco

  13. What sort of categories? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    Maybe they'll need a section for projects currently being sued by Apple.

    1. Re:What sort of categories? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OP here. That's no troll. The Darwin GPL project has just changed a bunch of stuff due to worries baout Apple lawsuits. This is reality, whether the moderators agree with it or not!

    2. Re:What sort of categories? by bursch-X · · Score: 1

      The GNU Darwin people are a bunch of whining trolls. And if they leave the ppc platform no one's going to shed a tear. There still is open darwin and Fink.

      For some incomprehensible reason they will still support darwin on x86... isn't that also covered by the Apple license, you might ask. Yes and that's why the GNU Darin people are morons. They say:

      "hey we have a problem with Apple and the way they do things, so to punish them we are only going to use their software covered under their license on a different platform" ... well, duh.

      --
      There are two rules for success:
      1. Never tell everything you know.
  14. X? by xanadu-xtroot.com · · Score: 5, Funny

    Since I switched my primary laptop to OS X, I'm glad to see scoop do this.

    The great Taco isn't using Linux? Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say "OS-X" at will to old ladies. There is a pestilence upon this land! Nothing is sacred.

    --
    I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
    I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.
    1. Re:X? by furballphat · · Score: 3, Funny

      Taco: We are now... no longer the Knights Who Say 'Linux'.
      Slashdotters: Linux! Shh!
      Taco: Shh! We are now the Knights Who Say 'OS X'.

    2. Re:X? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are well documented problems with getting laptops OS Free or with Linux pre-loaded and fully supported. Perhaps Taco just wanted a commercially supported microsoft-tax free (and fairly UNIX'y) solution. If I were buying a laptop, that's the way I'd go (AC's honor.)

    3. Re:X? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know, but it did make for a good joke. I'd actually agree with yours and Taco's logic. If I had the spare cash, I'd use Mac's. No second thoughts about it. I just don't have enough cash handy. I can build a fairly decent machine running a free OS for just a few hundred bucks. I can't do that with Apple's stuff. As wonderful as the OS and hardware is, I can't currently afford it... :-(

    4. Re:X? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is it you wish, Knights Who Say 'OS 10',er, 'OS Ten',er, 'OS X'-- Knights Who Until Recently Said 'Linux'?

    5. Re:X? by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      Dear God. Give geeks big bucks during the dotcom boom. Give them hottie girlfriends like Stevie Case. Make scads of money showing how 'cool' geeks are.

      And yet someone still makes a Monty Python joke to fuck it all up.

      "You must bring us... A usable desktop for linux!"

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
  15. The previous message brought to by TechTracker! by toupsie · · Score: 1

    Good job getting that plug in!

    --
    Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
    1. Re:The previous message brought to by TechTracker! by TellarHK · · Score: 2

      I wish it -were- a plug. I could use some more cash.

      Damn unpaid "holidaay vacations".

  16. EIther way it sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    Either way it sucks and I hope apple dies. That would be a great christmas present.

  17. Cause OS X/Apple sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    Keep in mind that ALL Apple products only represent less than 5% of all the computers in the world. They suck and the sooner they realize this and die off, the better.

    1. Re:Cause OS X/Apple sucks by CmdrTaco+on · · Score: -1

      Microsoft controls 95% of the boat while Apple controls 5%. Good thing that 5% is the rudder.

      --

      saru mo ki kara ochiru

    2. Re:Cause OS X/Apple sucks by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 0, Troll

      Keep in mind that ALL computer geeks represent less than 5% of all the people in the world. They suck and the sooner they realize this and die off, the better.

      --

      I write in my journal
    3. Re:Cause OS X/Apple sucks by monomania · · Score: 1
      Microsoft controls 95% of the boat while Apple controls 5%. Good thing that 5% is the rudder.

      And with UNIX as the engine, it's full speed ahead....

  18. YOU FAIL IT! by Failure+Guy · · Score: -1
    This is definitely NOT first post, there are two posts before it! You are definitely a FAILURE! It isnt your nationality that counts, but the fact you have FAILED!

    YOU FAIL IT!

  19. apple-suits.freshmeat.org by Sh0t · · Score: 1

    That section would probably end up with more listnings than any for osx itself.

  20. Lame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't be such a troll. Apple users are neither geeks or creative anything. They are morons that are just trying to be diffrent.

  21. First off, I'll give you credit for a troll . . . by kfg · · Score: 2

    rather above the usual sophistication. Perhaps not quite art, but definately at least craft.

    Now I'll take it more seriously anyway.

    The business model isn't the only one by which one can measure "success" or "failure."

    Clearly the measure of "success" for an open source program is whether or not *I* find it successful. This is the reason that all Linux needs to "succeed" is for one geek sitting in a basement somewhere at three in the morning going, "Oh, wow man."

    The rest is all sound and fury, signifying nothing.

    KFG

  22. L Ron Hubbard? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    The head of the Galactic Federation (76 planets around larger
    stars visible from here) (founded 75,000,000 years ago, very space
    opera) solved overpopulation (250 billion or so per planet -178
    billion on average) by mass implanting. He caused people to be
    brought to Teegeeack (Earth) and put an H-Bomb on the principal
    volcanoes (Incident II) and THEN the Pacific area ones were taken
    in boxes to HAWAII and the Atlantic area ones to LAS PALMAS and then
    re "packaged". His name was Xenu. He used renegades. Various
    misleading data by means of circuits etc. was placed in the
    implants. When through with his crime loyal officers (to the people)
    captured him after six years of battle and put him in an electronic
    mountain trap where he still is. "They" are gone. The place
    (Confederation) has since been a desert. The length and brutality
    of it all was such that this Confederation never recovered. The
    implant is calculated to kill (by pneumonia etc.) anyone who
    attempts to solve it. This liability has been dispensed with by my
    tech development.

    One can freewheel through the implant and die unless it is
    approached as precisely outlined. The "freewheel" (auto-running on
    and on) lasts too long, denies sleep etc. and one dies. So be
    careful to do only Incidents I and II as given and not plough
    around and fail to complete one thetan at a time.

    In December 1967 I knew someone had to take the plunge. I did
    and emerged very knocked out, but alive. Probably the only one ever
    to do so in 75,000,000 years. I have ALL the data now, but only
    that given here is needful.

    One's body is a mass of individual thetans stuck to oneself or
    to the body.

    One has to clean them off by running Incident II and Incident
    I. It is a long job, requiring care, patience and good auditing. You
    are running beings. They respond like any preclear. Some large, some
    small.

    Thetans believed they were ONE. This is the primary error.
    Good luck.
    * * *

    For the purpose of clarity, by BODY THETAN is meant a thetan
    who is stuck to another thetan or body but is not in control.

    A THETAN is, of course, a Scientology word using the Greek
    theta which was the Greek symbol for thought or life. An individual
    being such as a man is a thetan, he is not a body and he does not
    think because he has a brain.

    A CLUSTER is a group of body thetans crushed or held together
    by some mutual bad experience.

    CHARACTER OF BODY THETANS

    Body thetans are just Thetans. When you get rid of one he goes
    off and possibly squares around, picks up a body or admires daisies.
    He is in fact a sort of cleared Being. He cannot fail to eventually,
    if not at once, regain many abilities. Many have been asleep for the
    last 75,000,000 years. A body Thetan responds to any process any
    Thetan responds to.

    Some Body Thetans are suppressive. A suppressive is out of
    valence in R6. He is in a valence in Incident I almost always.

    One can't run a human being on these two incidents since human
    beings are composites and would not be able to run the lot. Aside
    from that, non-clears are way below awareness required to even find
    these Incidents.

    Huge amounts of charge have already been removed from the case
    AND the body thetans by Clearing and OT I and OT II to say nothing
    of engrams and lower grades.

    Awareness is proportional to the charge removed from the case.

    Although a human is a composite being there is only one I
    (that is you) who runs things.

    Body thetans just hold one back.

    You will continue to be you. You, inside, can of course
    separate out body thetans and so solo auditing is the answer. How
    good do you have to be to run body thetans off? Well, if you didn't
    skip your grades, Clearing and OT II particularly, you should be
    able to command body thetans easily.

    * * *

    Incident II is over 36 days long. Capture on other planets was
    weeks or months before the implant. Those on Teegeeack (Earth) were
    just blown up except for Loyal Officers who were (shortly before the
    explosion on Earth) rounded up.

    Do not scan through the duration of 36 days. The volcanic
    explosion on Earth to the point where "the pilot" says he is mocking
    it up is only a few days.

    Sequence of Incident II for thetans on ANOTHER planet -

    (1) Capture (being shot),
    (2) freezing,
    (3) transport to Teegeeack (sometimes via a relay point),
    (4) being placed near a volcano,
    (5) beginning implant up to "the pilot",
    (6) various picture sequences,
    (7) the 7s and C.C. and OT II materials,
    (8) 36 days of picture implants which give a vast array of
    materials and three explanations for the bombing,
    (9) transport to Hawaii or Las Palmas for packaging up into
    clusters.

    The pictures contain God, the Devil, angels, space opera,
    theatres, helicopters, a constant spinning, a spinning dancer,
    trains and various scenes very like modern England. You name it,
    it's in this implant we call in its entirety "R6".

    If one was a Loyal Officer on Teegeeack, the sequence was
    (1) capture (2) number 5 above on. If one was a citizen of Teegeeack
    there was only number 5 on.

    The material given at the various "volcanoes" was no longer or
    shorter, but dovetailed into the same sequence of pictures. We have
    the whole text but it is needless.

    People who feel dizzy have gotten into the spinning part.

    * * *
    Incident I occurred about 4 quadrillion years ago plus or
    minus. It is very much earlier than Incident II which occurred only
    75 million years ago (a bit less).

    Incident II is only peculiar and general on this planet and
    nearby stars, whereas Incident I is to be found on all thetans.

    The Basic on BT's

    I've isolated a way a thetan comes to be stuck to another
    thetan. This gives the basis of clusters and having BT's.

    A thetan collides with another. That one makes a picture of
    being collided with. Other BT's get stuck to the picture.

    The moment of actual contact of thetans was brief but the
    picture (containing a stop or withdraw) tends to be permanent.

    Thetans then get the idea they can be permanently stuck as
    they see pictures of it happening.

    Thus we get the concept of a "black theta body". This would
    be actual BT's stuck to a thetan plus pictures of BT's stuck to a
    thetan.

    An answer to all this is to find the first picture a thetan
    made of contacting another thetan.

    If not at once available the earliest instance of a thetan
    contacting (colliding, running into, attacking) another thetan could
    be achieved by R3R on being suddenly hit with clusters or strange
    beings.

    The idea is to find and run the "first picture" one made of
    another thetan.

    This opens another way to "blow off" BT's - run R3R on a BT to
    the first picture the BT ever made of another thetan.

    Instructions

    Locate by meter read or an area of pressure, a body thetan or
    group (cluster). Run Incident II. If the BT does not blow off or the
    group break up and blow, then run Incident I on individual BT's.
    Each will blow off with an F/N.

    When you can find no more on which to run Incident I's, once
    more locate a pressure area or by meter read on looking over body
    run another Incident II. Then Incident I's on any.

    Incident II made clusters of BT's. Severe impacts and
    experiences ALSO make clusters. (See the data called "Milazzo" in
    this pack.) Those who do not leave on running the impact or its
    chain will leave when Incident I is run on them.

    Incident II sometimes forms gigantic clusters. In such there
    is a leader, an alternate leader and several (eight to eighteen)
    more. These were all implanted in different volcanic areas with
    fractions of the main 36 day implant and then "packaged" in Las
    Palmas or Hawaii. This if you run Incident II as far as "the pilot"
    it blows up or loosens up and those who don't go away can be run on
    Incident I's.

    Do not speak your commands. Just "intend" them. A BT controls
    easily. BT's can be ARC broken by rough or careless auditing. You
    can also run an Incident II on a BT and he doesn't blow, but you
    accidentally run in Incident I on another one and leave the first
    still there. The remedy is to run Incident I's on anything you find.

    A very SP BT can be run on grades and Power and should then
    respond to Incident II and Incident I.

    After a BT leaves, some other BT may copy him or the incident
    just run.

    If you have found a cluster (pressure area) that does not
    respond or disintegrate to Incident II running, get Dianetic
    auditing, listing "what impact or incident would cause a cluster?"
    and R3R on the items found. Then do more Incident I's to clean up
    the strays with solo. This is a refined "Milazzo".

    There are hundreds of BT's you will find.

    If you find none, get audited on Dianetics in general and as
    above (impact list), and if you still find none, get a review GF40
    and handle all items, then go back to solo.

    If you find only one or two, get the Dianetic impact list
    done.

    All "none on OTIII" cases were later found loaded.

    Do Incident II and Incident I's on what you can find to begin
    with. You will do fine. Good hunting.

    * * *

    Certain "buttons" have to be gotten in where running a thetan
    through incidents. The EFFORT TO STOP the motion hangs up the
    action and gives a stuck picture. One gets the EFFORT TO STOP off
    and the scene races through.

    The EFFORT TO WITHDRAW is important also and hangs up the
    action and creates a vacuum.

    RUSH, PROTEST, NOT-IS, SUPPRESS are also present.

    These were actions - thoughts - the thetan had during the
    incident and are picked up only when the incident doesn't run well.
    Sometimes two "buttons" such as STOP and WITHDRAW are in
    combination.

    Thetans in the body may obsessively copy the pictures of
    other thetans. Therefore you can find it seems that the thetan who
    just left is still there because there is a picture left. Spot the
    fact that someone else copied it and it usually goes.

    If you do an S & D on a body thetan be sure you give the right
    item to the right thetan.

  23. OS X Needs a Cocoa Evolution Project by good+soldier+svejk · · Score: 2, Interesting


    That would be what I most want to see on freshmeat, a Cocoa port of Evolution. Increasingly that looks like OS X's only hope for native Exchange compatibility. MS doesn't seem to be budging on Outlook. If we users ported Evolution, Ximian would surely give us Connector. They can make money selling Exchange connectivity to Mac users.

    I would start the project myself if I were competent.

    --
    It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man

    -James Baldwin
    1. Re:OS X Needs a Cocoa Evolution Project by WPIDalamar · · Score: 2

      My company would buy licenses for an OSX connector in bulk!

    2. Re:OS X Needs a Cocoa Evolution Project by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 2

      Why? If you've got an Exchange server that you need to talk to, Microsoft gives Outlook for Mac away for free. And if you don't have an Exchange server, Mail, Address Book, and iCal make for a better set of personal information tools.

      I don't think the Mac really needs Evolution right now.

      --

      I write in my journal
    3. Re:OS X Needs a Cocoa Evolution Project by good+soldier+svejk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why? If you've got an Exchange server that you need to talk to, Microsoft gives Outlook for Mac away for free. And if you don't have an Exchange server, Mail, Address Book, and iCal make for a better set of personal information tools.


      Outlook 2001 is gratis, but it is a MacOS app not an OS X app. As it stands it is the only Classic app we put on our standard OS X hard drive image. This is merely an adequate solution and Mac users are clamoring for a native Exchange client. It is quite possible MS will never provide one. They have shown no indication that they will ever port Outlook. On the contrary, they really push Entourage, which has little Exchange integration.
      --
      It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man

      -James Baldwin
    4. Re:OS X Needs a Cocoa Evolution Project by Feral+Bueller · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Yes it does. Don't assume that there aren't a few of us in Corporate I.T. land trying to use our Macs full-time instead of the crap Dells we're given. There is no Outlook Exchange Client for OS X. It's not looking too good either: the Mac Exchange Client for the Classic Mac OS, although advertised as feature-compatible isn't entirely: there is some core functionality, like the abiltity to search within Calendar items, that is missing in the Mac version.

      Having said that, there are a number of other options available:
      1. Web access - although you can only view entries you "own"- kills the shared calendar concept.
      2. Virtual PC. Pricey. A bit of a hassle to get set up on an NT domain (our admins don't like adding it...).
      3. Citrix. Works great (I use the Java client instead of the OS X client) if you've got a Citrix install and an admin who's not a dickhead.

      I think a Cocoa Evolution project would be good for OS X and for Evolution: I know it would give OS X considerably more credibility in the workplace.

      --
      - learn to swim.
    5. Re:OS X Needs a Cocoa Evolution Project by good+soldier+svejk · · Score: 1

      Having said that, there are a number of other options available:
      1. Web access - although you can only view entries you "own"- kills the shared calendar concept.
      2. Virtual PC. Pricey. A bit of a hassle to get set up on an NT domain (our admins don't like adding it...).
      3. Citrix. Works great (I use the Java client instead of the OS X client) if you've got a Citrix install and an admin who's not a dickhead.


      Citrix works pretty well, but users sometimes complain about not getting "seamless" windows like in the Windows and other *n*x clients. It can be an inconvenient way to work. For a while I was bundling the Java client into double clickable .apps for each pubished app, but now I find the OS X client works better. Last I tried it the Java client couldn't print under OS X, even with the new Metaframe XP print architecture. It was also prone to display anomolies (artifacts within its window).

      More importantly, Citrix client access licenses are expensive and the leases stick clients for an unreasonably long period (I forget the exact numbers). IIRC, VPC would actually be cheaper (assuming you own OS licenses).
      --
      It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man

      -James Baldwin
  24. I think this is a good thing: by sickboy_macosX · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think that too many people are afraid of the open source movement. And Mac OS X, while partly open source, is a good intro into what Unix/Linux is all about. I have met alot of people, who are afraid of implementing Linux, but have no problem with Mac OS X. While widly different, it is nice to have a stable version of linux on my system that all my *nix commands work with (Unlike windows where i have a hard time remembering a Display Directory is DIR and not LS) I think Mac OS X is going to open the world up to *nix because Apple has done what many people have tried to do, Put a Pretty Face (Aqua) ontop of an Ugly Operating System (BSD). This is going to help out in the long run especially if they release their I-32 version of the OS.

    --
    --- /* In Soviet Russia, the Mac OS X kernel panics you! */
  25. OT stands for Offtopic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    Cross Auditing

    When one runs Incident I out of one thetan and then IncidentII out of another (thinking it was the first one) one can get a partially run body thetan who won't blow, but who may start to go on through the whole of R6 automatically (since the basic-basic Incident I is not run, yet Incident II is). Once can get quite ill doing this as the illness in R6 can turn on.

    One can also "feel no wish to audit". All no desire to audit" is some large blunder on a case.

    The way you can run Incident I out of one thetan and Incident II out of another is rather easy. One fails to notice the first one blow on having Incident I run and runs Incident II on another.

    As a matter of data, the only trouble in a III OT run is running an Incident I on one thetan and an Incident II on another, thinking it was the first one. A pre-OT can freewheel into R6 if
    you run only an Incident II. You can stop a freewheel at once by
    running Incident I off the same thetan you ran the Incident II on
    that started a freewheel.

    Freewheel means that the PC goes on automatic continuous run.
    Incident II is R6 75,000,000 years ago. Incident I is about 4
    quadrillion years ago. Both, all thetans on this planet and 21
    nearby stars have in common. All thetans in the universe have
    Incident I. Only those in this old Confederation have Incident II
    and R6. All C.C. and OT II materials are in R6 75,000,000 years ago.
    These are followed by 36 days worth of motion pictures - God,
    Devil, space opera, trains, cars, helicopters, crashes, stage etc.
    This R6 is 75,000,000 years ago, and this planet and Confederation.

    If the volcano bit is run as per III directions but the
    Incident I is not run on the same thetan, R6 begins to run off on
    automatic, the Being can't sleep for days, the body dies. That's
    the way it was designed.

    Overrun on III

    The only way you can get a read on "Overrun on III" is to
    have accidentally run Incident I out, and then later run it out
    again on the same thetan or make a similar blunder. Example: One
    flattens Incident I by several passes on a body thetan. This body
    thetan for some reason (Mostly because Incident II was then not run)
    does not fly off. Then, not noticing, one again finds the same
    thetan and once more seeks to run Incident I. One then gets, in
    answer to the question "Overrun on III?" a lot of reads and overrun
    phenomena.

    The remedy is to find out WHO was overrun and get the charge
    off by that action.

    One then runs Incident II on that thetan or in any event, by
    getting off the charge of "overrun", letting the thetan depart.

    Just because one's meter reads "Overrun on III" is no reason
    to attest. Find out who was. It's almost always a body thetan.

    * * *

    A BT can be overrun past erasure. This fact sometimes causes
    a solo auditor to believe OT III is overrun.

    If he asks "Is OT III overrun?" he may get a read and
    blowdown. This is actually usually just one BT or cluster that is
    overrun. The remedy is discovering and indicating the point of
    overrun. And carry on with OT III.

    Running OT III

    When running OT III the solo auditor handles body thetans as
    he would any other PC, for the general idea is to run them
    standardly and not ARC break them. He does not scan through
    anything in order to find body thetans.

    When a solo auditor can find no more body thetans he can
    attest, or run a pressure area down and handle as per his running
    instructions.

    The pre-OT could be exterior and the Interiorization
    processes can be run in Review to help him through.

    Here are three reasons why a pre-OT might have trouble whilst
    running BT's on Incident II -

    (1) It is the wrong area;
    (2) it is not the volcano of the BT being run;
    (3) it is not an Incident II, but another incident of a
    different date.

    Check (1) and (2) if you are having any difficulty in running
    Incident II and handle by locating the correct area or finding the
    volcano of the BT being run. If it is not a II, simply check for
    the date and if different run it.

    OT III Errors

    Amongst OT III errors are "a BT run on Incident I fails to
    blow". There are three reasons:

    (a) Auditor is trying to run a cluster with an Incident I. The
    right thing to do is date and get the character of the incident that
    made it a cluster and then run Incident I's on those left when it
    breaks up. Or get Dianetic auditing.

    (b) There is an earlier Incident I on the same BT. Find it and
    run it. The BT has a chain of them all by himself.

    (c) Another BT is copying the Incident I just run so it looks
    like it didn't blow. Failure to ever run Incident II can also cause
    a bog. Routine Dianetic auditing by a Dianetic HDG who is also on
    or above OT III using triple flows and LDN OT III also handles
    bogged OT III pre-OT's.

    Cluster Formation - Cumulative

    In doing a cluster one is likely to find it is made up of
    other earlier clusters. This looks like this. 1898 impact horse
    accident. When engram 1898 run on R3R, that part blows. No F/N
    occurs, TA remains up. Remainder will grind after the blow. Earlier
    portion dates as 93,000,000 years ago, electric shock. When run on
    R3R, that part blows, no F/N. TA remains up, will grind if run
    further. Earliest portion dates as 72 trillion implant. When run on
    R3R, all blow, F/N.

    A cluster or engram which is a cluster can repeatedly F/N as
    BT's blow. Dates as 778 million explosion. After run once or twice
    an F/N occurs as one BT blows. Run again to second F/N as two more
    BT's blow. Remainder blow with a wider F/N. The cluster has gone.
    This happens (repeating F/N) when picture persists and meter check
    reveals it is not a copy. It will be more BT's in same cluster. So
    above repeating F/N occurs when pre-OT is moved through it.
    Clusters are found by meter dating, listing for type of incident
    and run as an engram. Clusters can occur at Incident II and
    Incident I. They can also occur at 1 quadrillion, which is the

    Clearing Course materials. They also occur at random dates for
    different reasons.

    * * *

    I have lately been C/Sing a number of failed OT cases and
    have found them all running well on solo now. The errors are made
    as follows:

    (1) The solo auditor cannot audit, needs more training.
    (2) Cases are not well prepared with Dianetics.

    The remedy for all of these is to:

    (a) Run the PC for at least a score or two of Dianetic items
    by R3R, done of course by a good HDG,
    (b) then do a GF 40.

    And then repeat it until necessary auditing is complete. These
    two actions take care of the majority of difficult cases on OT III.

    The real End Phenomena of OT III and OT IV is exterior with
    full perception. You can and should accomplish full stable
    exteriorization on doing the materials of III.

    Further III remedies:

    (3) High TA. This comes from not completing the Incidents I
    and II on body thetans.
    (4) The solo auditor puts too wide an intention on the BT and
    runs two or three when he is intending to run only one.
    (5) A cluster just won't break up. The remedy is a Dianetic
    session listing for impacts or incidents that would cause a cluster
    and doing R3R. The principle of earlier similar holds good. When
    this is completed, the solo auditor is sent back to solo to clean
    up the BT's shaken loose and to continue with OT III.
    (6) Rudiments go out on BT's. The remedy of course is to
    locate BT's who have out-ruds, put in the ruds and run Incident I,
    at which the BT should leave.
    (7) A theta-bopping meter sometimes puzzles a solo auditor on
    OT III. This means a BT is trying to exteriorize and can't. The
    remedy is to complete the partially run Incident II or Incident I
    or in extreme cases put the ruds in on the hung up BT.
    (8) One-hand electrode giving wrong TA read baffling the solo
    auditor with floating needles with a high TA. The remedy is to have
    two-hand electrodes handy and trim the trim knob so the one-hand
    electrode reads the same as two-hand electrodes.
    (9) A suppressive body thetan sometimes isn't auditable. The
    remedy is to run Grades IV or V on him.
    (10) By far and large the corniest error and which has been
    very prevalent is not knowing the materials of OT III or the content
    of Incident II or Incident I.

    OT III is a vital grade. One fronts up to it and does it.
    When he is really done, the rewards of OT III and IV exceed his
    wildest dreams.

    Rudiments Going Out on BT's

    When the ruds go out on BT's during the session the solo
    auditor recognizes the following:

    BT critical = withhold from auditor
    BT antagonistic = bypassed charge in session
    No TA = problem
    BT sad = ARC Break
    Soaring TA = Overrun or protest (also more than one BT being
    run in error or it's a cluster)
    Auditor tired = no sleep or incomplete Incident I's
    Auditor dope-off = bypassed F/N or not enough sleep
    Auditor no-interest = out ruds on BT's

    A solo auditor who isn't sure what it is, but runs into
    trouble with a BT is smart to end off the session quickly, write
    down the full observation and get it to the C/S. The solo auditor
    who knows what he is looking at as per the above scale (and the C/S
    the C/S would give), handles it promptly.

    BT critical = w/h = pull the withhold
    BT antagonistic = BPC = assess proper list (such as L1C) and
    handle
    No TA (or case gain) = problem = locate the problem and handle
    BT sad = ARC Break = locate and handle itsa E/S itsa
    Soaring TA = O/R or protest (also more than one BT being run
    in error or it's a cluster) = find which and handle (running more
    than the one intended comes from too wide an intention)
    Auditor tired = no sleep or incomplete Incident I's = check
    which it is and handle
    Auditor dope-off = lack of sleep or bypassed F/N = check on
    sleep or rehabilitate F/N
    Auditor no-interest = out-ruds on BT's = put in ruds

  26. Freshmeat Mac OSX Section is great.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait

    for me to POOP on.

  27. Hello $95 OSDN subscriptions by vasqzr · · Score: 2, Funny



    If it's anything like the whole .Mac fiasco, it'll be $99.95 to get access.

  28. They exist, they just don't get a nice DNS entry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Windows stuff is here. There's tons of it... far more than OSX stuff.

    The Windows people are just, generally, more concerned with getting stuff done than whether or not they get their own cool unique hostname like whiney Mac people demand... :)

  29. Re:First off, I'll give you credit for a troll . . by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 2
    The business model isn't the only one by which one can measure "success" or "failure."

    In other words, "We can't win, so we'll just say we're playing by different rules."

    ;-)

    --

    I write in my journal
  30. RSS? by endquotedotcom · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They should really add an RSS feed to that. Just for me. Like a Christmas present, you know? That would be great.

    Same goes for apple.slashdot. That would be like *double* Christmas.

    1. Re:RSS? by scoop · · Score: 1
      See? Chrismas present :)

      PS: Yeah, I know, it's not all that populated yet. But hey, it's a start. We'll get there.

    2. Re:RSS? by dalamcd · · Score: 1
      Have another. Merry Christmas.

      dalamcd

      --
      moer liek CELtroid prime!!@1!
    3. Re:RSS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      THANK YOU!

  31. What about multiplatform projects? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    The great thing about Mac OS X being a BSD is that it's easy to have multiplatform Unix projects that support OSX. Are people that maintain OSX ports of their multiplatform project going to have to maintain multiple projects in multiple sections because of this ego-massage for OSX users?

  32. Just as one cannot win an auto race. . . by kfg · · Score: 1

    with a killer tennis serve.

    Yes, playing to different sets of rules is perfectly legitimate. People do it all the time.

    An outfit like Red Hat or Mandrake can be evaluated by standard business models because they accepted that rule set and are playing that game.

    Red Hat and Mandrake != Linux.

    If I may speak metaphorically ( and I may, because there really isn't anything you can do about it) the business model of success is similar to that of Chess.

    Linux is a bit more like Go, where not only the rules but the very concept of "winning" is somewhat different.

    KFG

  33. come, now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's not kid ourselves. We know exactly why they aren't available in small or extra small. It does no good to stock a product no one will buy.

    1. Re:come, now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ceren Ercen anyone?

    2. Re:come, now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you think that mousey little piece of filth is attractive, you need to get out of the house more.

    3. Re:come, now by noewun · · Score: 1

      I would think you'd jump on anything that wasn't attacted to the end of your right arm.

      --
      I am a believer of momentum and curves.
  34. $699 too much? by Big+Sean+O · · Score: 2

    I just saw a new 'old style iMac' (no LED Screen) for sale for $699 new. Frankly, if I were buying a new mac, I'd buy one of those. IIRC, it had okay specs.

    BTW, OS X 10.2 runs fine on my older iMac (DV Graphite SE purchased Jan 2000).

    And eBay Macs are even cheaper. If you want a machine that runs Jagwire, there really isn't any reason why you can't afford one. Granted, it won't be top of the line, but it will work, and work nicely...

    --
    My father is a blogger.
  35. YHBT! YHL! HAND! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They gotcha!

  36. An appetite for news by Ilan+Volow · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    taco dishes out scoop of freshmeat and apple

    Anyone else getting hungry?

    --
    Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
  37. Didn't hear about that one. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That one's definitely from left field. I'm not sure how to articulate how I would feel about such a thing, so let me describe what appeared before my mind's eye (ear).

    A giant swimming pool filled with gelatin. There's a retarded man sitting in a lawn chair.
    The pool makes unnatural, gloppy gelatin noises as the wind stirs waves across it's surface. The retarded man doesn't seem to think anything is amiss.

  38. Work Nicely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You must be joking. I've played Mac OSX 10.2.1 (Thats Mac OS 10.10.2.1 apparently) and its a dog one ANY platform. Lets see, iBook, g3 Powerbook, G4 tower (867) and a G3 desktop. I couldn't believe my eyes as I watched a little rainbow (hello pride parade!) spin and spin and spin... Oh, but, if I do ONE thing, and only ONE thing, its pretty manageable. Its NOTHING like a Mac, and this is the question. Whats the point of Apple?

    1. Re:Work Nicely by DiscoOnTheSide · · Score: 1

      Funny, I've used it on a 600Mhz G3 iMac, a 450Mhz G4 Tower, a dual 1Ghz G4 tower, and a 550Mhz Powerbook Titanium.

      Yes, some ran faster than others. But I also wouldn't be using my Athlon 650 to do video editing. Thats what my Athlon MP box is for.

      They were all acceptably speedy, so either you have high standards, or you don't have a clue.

      --
      Viva La Revolucion! Buy a Mac!
  39. GTK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What someone needs to due is port GTK over to Aqua, they did it for winders, so lets do it for the mac and then let in a bunch more apps (although most of the blow), without having to run XDarwin, not that I do not mind running it, I just think it would be more fun

    1. Re:GTK by good+soldier+svejk · · Score: 1


      You mean like this?

      Although, Aqua is just a theme. What you are talking about is Quartz.

      --
      It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man

      -James Baldwin
    2. Re:GTK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hahaha, you suck cock.

  40. WTF? iBooks start at $999! by pretentiousPPC · · Score: 1

    $999 for a brand spanking new iBook, it's quite possably the sweatest laptop out there, esp. at that price point. The price is right and the batttery life is excelent; Screen, size and weight is the absolutelty the perfect for portability. If you can make a laptop at this price and with the same specs your too much of a computer guru for me to even begin to be talking too, and I should cower to you're 31337'ness.

    --
    Artist will always make art.
    1. Re:WTF? iBooks start at $999! by bsartist · · Score: 2

      iBook, it's quite possably the sweatest laptop out there

      If carrying an iBook makes you work up a sweat, you are seriously out of shape.

      --
      Lost: Sig, white with black letters. No collar. Reward if found!
    2. Re:WTF? iBooks start at $999! by g4dget · · Score: 2
      $999 for a brand spanking new iBook, it's quite possably the sweatest laptop out there, esp. at that price point.

      I can't get particularly excited about the iBook. With a 600MHz G3, it's rather slow, and at about 5 pounds, it's pretty heavy.

      A Sony VAIO SRX99 makes a much better ultra-portable laptop: longer battery life, more memory, much lighter and thinner at 2.76 pounds.

      And something like the HP ze4101 gives you a much better general purpose laptop at less money and little extra weight.

    3. Re:WTF? iBooks start at $999! by pi+radians · · Score: 1

      Well, since I'm in the market for a new laptop I decided to compare both the iBook and the VAIO (its to replace a ThinkPad) and I must say you should go back and re-look at the iBook. For less than what Sony is selling the SRX99 ($1299 vs $1499) you can get a iBook with an 800Mhz G3 (as good if not better than the 850Mhz P3) 256MB RAM (Max 640MB RAM compared to Sony's max of 384MB) 10GB more HDD, a slightly larger screen at the same resolution and a better video card with more video memory (Radeon 7500 Mobility with 32MB).

      Granted it is heavier and the battery is claimed to last longer on the VAIO but that is only because THERE IS NO DVD/CD-R in the machine. You have to carry it around seperately. That alone makes the iBook a better deal.

      (and just so you know, the $999 iBook is 700Mhz, not 600 as you previously stated.)

      --

      sin(6cos(r)+5A)
    4. Re:WTF? iBooks start at $999! by mkelley · · Score: 1

      or go $799 for a refurb'ed 600MHz iBook. It's light and works great. They are lighter than most laptops and thinner too.

      --

      m.kelley
      life is like a freeway, if you don't look you could miss it.
    5. Re:WTF? iBooks start at $999! by dhuff · · Score: 1

      Even InfoWorld, certainly no Apple shill, likes the iBook. See A grand well spent.

  41. Preemptive Strike... by Aldurn · · Score: 2, Funny

    (Note, Freshmeat & Slashdot are both owned by OSDN.)

    Does that mean this story will get posted three times instead of two?
    --
    char sig[120] = "\0"
  42. Why Would Apple Toss Money Away? by reallocate · · Score: 2

    Ummm...one assumes that Apple would want to invest in something that might actually make a long-term profit and build their core business. OSDN doesn't seem to meet those criteria.

    --
    -- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
    1. Re:Why Would Apple Toss Money Away? by goon+america · · Score: 2
      Increasing the amount of software available for your platform makes your platform more valuable. Apple seems to believe this when it publicly courts the open source community.

      Rather than buying it out, Apple appears have been engaging in "friendship projects" with OSDN to increase its exposure. To name a few: giving Sourceforge OS X Servers for its compile farm, giving the Slashdot crew TiBooks, encouraging Apple sections of Slashdot and now Freshmeat.

  43. Welcome from a MacHack'er by ubiquitin · · Score: 2

    As a Mac developer for some years and MacHack attendee, where this year CmdrTaco keynoted, mostly about l#sbian sim characters on his ThinkPad, I'd like to be one of the first to welcome you to the world of the MacOS X. Seriously, I hope you enjoy the ride, Rob. Great to have you along.

    VersionTracker could use some competition, so it is great to have the more Unix-focused Freshmeat and MacUpdate on the scene.

    --
    http://tinyurl.com/4ny52
  44. VT doesn't do open source by sbwoodside · · Score: 1

    VersionTracker doesn't have a setting for open source so that's why I put my open source project (FractalTreesX) on fresh meat as well.

    http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=1 48 43&db=mac
    http://freshmeat.net/projects/fractaltr ees/?topic_ id=98%2C100%2C80%2C71%2C901
    http://simonwoodside. com/fractaltrees/index.php

    it uses the (closed) cocoa API but I suppose that the GnuStep folks can start to mine the osx.freshmeat.net code for stuff to port if they want some apps, if it works on GnuStep then it's a fully open-source program all they way down.

    1. Re:VT doesn't do open source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice looking bit of software, congrats.

  45. Seperate Section. by SomeOtherGuy · · Score: 2

    Granted I don't know much about OSX. However -- with most *nix OS's that are posix complient -- should not only ./configure;make;make install care about what the underlying OS is (as long as all the right libraries installed? (Or is there special reqs. for programs to be ported to OSX?? -- and if there is, then what good is it..)

    --
    (+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
  46. Oreilly & OSX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oreillynet has been covering OS X for about a year, and has added an open source site which has covered open source OS X apps since June.

    1. Re:Oreilly & OSX by chromatic · · Score: 1

      The Mac dev center has been around longer. :)

  47. MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    +1 informative; I didn't know you could build a Darwin kernel yourself. cool!!

  48. MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is important stuff, and has everything to do with OS X!!

  49. MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    +1 informative; I didn't know you were such a retard

  50. Re:First off, I'll give you credit for a troll . . by Trolling4Dollars · · Score: 1

    Money, business and profit mean absolutely nothing in the long run. There is no true value of any kind since it is all disposable. Expanding the abilities of an individual's understanding and intelligence to a greater potential and spreading that to more people means everything. There is true value in complex thought. Therefore, open source software is much more valuable than proprietary software since the impetus is not profit, but knowledge. Think of it this way... What kind of software do you think is still going to be around in a few generations? Proprietary or open source? Classical music is still around and has much more of a presence than the folk music of the same time period. Re-evaluate your thinking.

  51. Re:$699 too much? Yes! by g4dget · · Score: 2
    Apple's lowest price is $799 for a 600MHz G3 with 128M SDRAM, a 40G Ultra ATA, and a CD-ROM. Is that too much? For $629, you get a Dell Dimension 2350 with a 2GHz P4 (much faster than the 600MHz G3), 256M of RAM, 60G of disk, CD-ROM, and a 15" monitor.

    I have a classic iMac, but I was willing to pay a premium for a fanless machine in a pretty case for a special application. But for general desktop use, the Dell hardware beats the iMac hardware in every way.

  52. Re:First off, I'll give you credit for a troll . . by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 2

    With a name like yours, you can't possibly expect to be taken seriously, can you?

    If you don't believe what you're saying, then ha ha, very funny, go away now. If you do believe what you're saying, then kindly take your nihilism elsewhere. The things that you say mean absolutely nothing do, in fact, mean something, because people attach value to them.

    Either way, that's about enough out of you.

    --

    I write in my journal
  53. Why not Windows? by Sanity · · Score: 2
    Windows has a much larger userbase than OSX and Linux put together, and there is plenty of Open Source software for Windows.

    Clearly, the issue isn't that the Operating System isn't Open Source, or OSX wouldn't be acceptable either.

  54. Sweet! by awkwardone · · Score: 1

    Just went over to the new OS X section. Within three minutes I had downloaded Meteorologist - a free alternative to WeatherPop. It works really well too! It's nice to have a reliable place to find free OS X software other than Mozilla...

    --
    www.tealeaves.org "All you need is love." -
  55. Off topic and cliche, but.. by deadgoon42 · · Score: 1

    Is it just me or do most of you out there seem to think that more and more people are using Apple laptops? Maybe it is because I just bought one, but it seems more and more people are using them and talking about them. And it seems mostly confined to laptops. For me, the Power Mac G4 is out of reach on price and I'm not thrilled about getting and all-in-one desktop computer. Anyway, it would be interesting to see how Apple's market share is changing in the laptop and desktop sectors.

    --

    Smeghead every day of the week.
  56. MACINTOSH IS GAY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To explain why he feels so uneasy, and indeed to unveil the true plight of MAC users everywhere, I have taken it upon myself to draw the parallels between MAC users and the H.O.M.O.'s of the world:

    Well, think about it:

    We're ten percent of the population.

    The object of our desire comes in rainbow colors.

    We are constantly vocal about our preferences for fear of being snowed under by the rest of society.

    When people try to get us to switch, we scream and yell about how it's the right thing for us and ask them to "try it just once and see if they like it."

    Most of us have been this way for years; it's not a decision we just made overnight.

    Although our functions are criticized, the moral majority STILL agree that we are tastefully designed, have an innate sense of colour, and are always on the leading edge of style and fashion.

    Too, we are often emulated by the majority with thinly-veiled knockoffs of our style.

    And, no matter how they beg and plead, no matter how we may tear our families apart with the shame and stigma of our choice (and some still say it was never a choice!), still they'll never change us.

    Finally, our biggest and most visible supporters are in San Francisco.

    It's official: Apparently, all Macintosh users are honorary homosexuals.

    MAC PRIDE!

    Of course, this isn't necessarily true. It's just an observation.

  57. As we often say to contributors: by autechre · · Score: 2

    Thanks for reading our FAQ :)

    http://freshmeat.net/faq/view/34/

    Compare our Unix software section and the Palm section. The Palm section is microscopic in comparison; it's dwarfed by the Themes section, which is in turn dwarfed by the Software section.

    But imagine what would happen if we allowed Windows software. A flood of applications, to say the least. Sometimes it gets a bit hectic keeping up with all the Unix software and themes, and I think we'd be totally swamped if we added Windows software, thus reducing the usefulness of the site.

    Finally, as the FAQ says, there are plenty of software download sites for Windows. We don't need to reinvent that wheel. This is different than PalmOS, because our selection of Palm apps is generally a different sort than the ones at other sites (When we launched the section, Jeff noted that other sites had mainly apps for business users, whereas ours could be more for geeks).

    [Why Palm? Unless I'm mistaken, that's still the PDA of choice for *nix folks, since they can actually sync with it]

    I am not officially representing OSDN, blah, blah...

    --
    WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
    1. Re:As we often say to contributors: by Ed+Avis · · Score: 2

      If the Freshmeat admins are too busy to cope with Windows software releases, that's a fairly good reason.

      But how about free software for Windows? There isn't yet a good site for that, not that I know of; the 'software download sites for Windows' are pretty lame and focused on binary-only applications. This is a similar business-vs-geeks distinction as you point out for PalmOS (except here it's more Joe User vs geeks).

      The amount of free software for Windows is growing, but still tiny compared to the amount of stuff you'll find on download.com.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    2. Re:As we often say to contributors: by autechre · · Score: 2


      Curses; I was about to yell that you still hadn't read the FAQ link I posted, but now I find that gnusoftware.com appears to have vanished. opensource.org has links to some sites, but I'm not sure how good they are. There's also www.ossblacksheep.com, and I believe sourceforge lists any open source project (though they're hardly the same as freshmeat, you can still search for things)

      Davecentral is probably more like what you wanted. Unfortunately, it's gone now, and for similar reasons; OSDN didn't have the resources to continue with it [I think that's what the site said a month ago, so it's not like I'm giving out secret information here]. If freshmeat could have handled absorbing it as we did themes.org, maybe we would have.

      We still do get oodles of Windows-only submissions, both open and closed source. The problem with only accepting open source Windows apps is that we'd _still_ have a double standard, because we accept closed-source *nix apps.

      Finally, I think that part of the reason this new section came into being is because Catie and Patrick use and like OS X. None of us use Windows; Jeff hardly even uses X. I'm not sure we'd be qualified to run a directory of Windows software, and I don't think we're hiring :)

      However, freshmeat isn't hostile to Windows users. We have Trove categories for Windows operating systems, and will happily list software which runs under Windows as long as it also runs under one of our supported operating systems. Browsing by category, you can find lots of software "for Windows", and you can restrict searches too. Keep in mind that we don't directly link to Windows downloadables, and we don't take any action if they disappear from project homepages.

      --
      WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
    3. Re:As we often say to contributors: by Ed+Avis · · Score: 2

      Let me respond to your posting and try to work out a list of sites. As you say, gnusoftware.org is down and has been for quite some time. The links on opensource.org aren't a great deal of use but I did find O'Reilly OSDir's Windows section with 18 apps listed, and BerliOS's Windows category with 11 projects. OSSBlacksheep is just a CD you can buy with some free software for Windows - similar to some mentioned on Slashdot recently.

      More useful than these is the old favourite Cygwin, a Unix-on-Win32 layer with gcc and tools, and its offshoot Mingw (aka Ming, Mingw32, Minimalist GNU-Win32) which is a native gcc and toolchain, without a Unix emulation layer. You can use Cygwin to port lots of Unix apps, and you can use Mingw to build the Win32 ports of things like perl and Mozilla. Actually I don't think you need both since Cygwin's gcc can build native executables too, but Mingw is slightly 'cleaner' if you have no need for emulated symlinks and other cruft.

      Hmm, what else can I think of? Well a lot of the big applications like Emacs and Mozilla have native Win32 ports. Don't forget the old DOS stuff, DJGPP which is a GNU-based development environment for DOS - everything except fork()!. There used to be a rival called EMX but it seems to have faded away.

      You're right that allowing Windows free software on Freshmeat but not Windows proprietary software is something of a double standard; but then so is allowing PalmOS (a wholly proprietary platform and not Unix). I don't think anyone expects Freshmeat to hold to a particular set of principles, it's above all a practical and useful site. So allowing Windows software but only when it is free might be a pragmatic compromise.

      Maybe one day, one of the Freshmeat staff will be forced to use a Windows box for a few months, and then I'd expect a Windows section to appear pretty rapidly :-).

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    4. Re:As we often say to contributors: by Liedra · · Score: 1

      Ssshh, autechre, you're not supposed to let our secret out! I much preferred the OSDN/Apple conspiracy theories! ;-)

      - Catie

    5. Re:As we often say to contributors: by autechre · · Score: 1


      We do list Cygwin; it's one of our very special exceptions to the rule, along with a project that allows you to run KDE on Windows.

      As for the projects you named which have Windows equivalents, we do list this information, though it is up to the contributor to classify it as such. A project can be added to one of several Windows categories if it supports that platform, and if you browse by category, you can see all of the software we list that runs on Windows (provided it's categorized correctly, which is a big "provided", but not something we can control).

      --
      WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
  58. Decomposing horse: Coroner reports it was beaten. by ZigMonty · · Score: 2
    Wow. You really proved your ignorance.

    [ibook:~] peter% gcc -v
    Reading specs from /usr/libexec/gcc/darwin/ppc/3.1/specs
    Thread model: posix
    Apple Computer, Inc. GCC version 1161, based on gcc version 3.1 20020420 (prerelease)
    [ibook:~] peter% bison -V
    GNU Bison version 1.28
    [ibook:~] peter% ssh workg4
    Last login: Tue Dec 24 22:57:58 2002 from ****
    Welcome to Darwin!
    [workg4:~] peter%

    I did have XFree86 installed but I realised that I didn't need it and it was just taking up space on my drive. However, if you had the slightest hint of a clue you would know that XFree86 compiles on OS X from the same source tree as Linux. OS X doesn't come bundled with XFree86 but who gives a shit about that? Are you implying that PicoBSD isn't Unix?

    BTW, GNU stands for GNU's Not Unix! The presence or absence of GNU tools (such as bison) does not make or break a Unix. Nor does the lack of an XWindow system.

    This same stupid, pedantic, ill-informed point was argued to death on Mac forums a year or more ago. ("A: Is this a Unix application? B: No, idiot, it's a Carbon app. Only Cocoa apps are Unix! C: I'm pretty sure it has to run in the Dos terminal to be Unix").

    The point is: Who really gives a shit? You do realise that technically Linux isn't a unix either? Here's my definition of a Unix: /dev exists. Probably also the idea of mount points instead of drive letters or a 'Desktop'. (Before you use this as proof that Mac OS X isn't unix, please realise that disk mounting on the desktop is GUI only. Disks are mounted under /Volumes, which is practically identical to /mnt except that it is more automatic.)

    Oh yeah, Merry Christmas! :-)

  59. Re:Decomposing horse: Coroner reports it was beate by Ed+Avis · · Score: 2

    Yes, you can compile XFree86 on Mac OS X. But:

    - Mac OS X does not include X11;

    - The Mac OS X GUI is not X11 or even vaguely related to it;

    - Graphical applications written for Mac OS X will not run on other Unixes, even those that have XFree86.

    This last point seems the most important to me - sure you _can_ disregard the native windowing system, compile an X server and libraries and run only X11 applications. You can do that on Windows too. But the Mac's standard user interface, the one that 99% of its users run, is not X11 and not particularly Unix-like.

    Yes, I know that under some definitions Linux is not 'Unix' either. That is my whole point, that trying to include or exclude operating systems based on whether they are 'Unix' or not is silly. Almost any system can be classified as 'Unix' by some criterion or another - even MS-DOS with DJGPP has a fairly complete Unix environment. Freshmeat should just accept software for all platforms.

    --
    -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
  60. Re:Decomposing horse: Coroner reports it was beate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    maybe they are concerned with accepting platforms for which there is a decent amount of free software.

  61. Re:First off, I'll give you credit for a troll . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I stand by my words.

    Posit: How much value does a copy of Microsoft Windows 3.1 currently have? Can one sell it for the same price that he or she bought it for? Now compare that with a copy of the GNU Emacs source code where the key "selling point" is not profit, but the sharing and spreading of knowledge and freedom. How valuable is ANY version of the Emacs source code in comparison to any version of Windows once Microsoft has deemed it "obsolete"?

    As usual, the profit motive that drives proprietary software only serves the short term gains of a few individuals as opposed to the larger benefits that open and free software offer ANYONE. This paradigm continues to expand as the open/free software movement produces more and better software over time.

    Now... some questions for you:

    -How was my original statement "nihilistic"? I think it's quite the oppposite, it's uplifting to the human condition. While profit and business may have some short term meaning and value to only a few select individuals, knowledge has a much longer life. Copernicus, Aristotle and DaVinci are still names that are connected to concepts and ideas that have much more value than anything that Ballmer, Gates, Jobs or Ellison are preaching now. The open/free software movement is in much closer company with the former than the latter.

    -While you may disagree with my opinions, you do not have the power to stop me from voicing them. Your final comment, "Either way, that's about enough out of you." illustrates your failure to comprehend that. I have no intention of starting a flamewar with you. I was merely asking you to re-evaluate your position based on the information I provided. There was also the option of providing reason for your disagreement with the potential to enlighten me and perhaps change my mind. You are now in less of a position to do so.

    This last part can be ignored by everyone except Twirlip:

    -Finally, (and I've left this for last since it was the weakest part of your response) the fact that you would discredit someone's posts based solely on their login name, illustrates that you are not interested in the free exchange of ideas and information. This is not a crime on your part, but it does impede self-development in many areas.

    I will enlighten you as to the meaning of my login name. I created this account for a few purposes. One of these is to have a way to post without damaging the karma of my normal login since some of my views are unpopular and garner unfair moderation by closed minds. The other purpose is that I love to post things that get rated "informative" or "insightful" but still contain a good deal of profanity. This is because I believe that profanity does not preclude valid information and it happens to have style when used properly. Such as, "Shut the fuck up you closed minded fucking moron", or "Bend over and grease up those canker infested assholes... here come the capitalists". Finally, it's a joke aimed at your typical "Neo Conservative". In my opinion, nearly all neoconservatives on Slashdot are "Trolling for (as in: in favor of) Dollars".

    With that said, STFU and re-evaluate your position (which is probably bent over and greased up).

    +1 Funny
    -1 Off Topic

  62. Re:First off, I'll give you credit for a troll . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hehehehehe... I guess that's about enough out of Trollipofthemists... ;P

  63. Re:First off, I'll give you credit for a troll . . by Trolling4Dollars · · Score: 1

    Folks... you saw it here first. I have put Twirlip of the Mists down. He has not responded to this post for days and therfore foreits the victory in this short discussion to me. In short... WE ALL WIN. Stupid gasbag. Check out my journal for more info as I (while I'm bored anyway) pursue Trollip and NineNine around Slashdot. I will be back at work on Monady and have a life over the weekend, so chances are this pursuit will be shortlived.

  64. Re:First off, I'll give you credit for a troll . . by yerricde · · Score: 1

    He has not responded to this post for days and therfore foreits the victory in this short discussion to me.

    Sorry, that's not how it works.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
  65. Re:First off, I'll give you credit for a troll . . by Trolling4Dollars · · Score: 1

    Oh really? Well how does it work smartass? Do you care to respond to my questions since you are so eager to defend Trollip? If you say no, then that's two victories on my part. And don't think you'll get off scott free by saying something like, "I refuse to be challenged by someone calling himself Trolling4Dollars" or "I am too far above you to be able to address something as simple and lowly as you" since those are NON-ANSWERS. But typical tripe from conervative sheep. Go bleat elsewhere little boy.

  66. ACs post at 0 by yerricde · · Score: 1

    Well how does it work smartass?

    For one thing, ACs post at 0, and the default threshold for having replies sent to Slashdot Message Center is 1. Thus, Twirlip may have legitimately not seen your reply.

    For another, if you use insulting language such as "smartass", you're likely to be ignored not because your opponent in the debate has acquiesced to your position, but because you broke one of the general rules of Western civilized debate: no ad hominem attacks.

    Therefore, silence from your opponent does not necessarily mean that your opponent has given up the argument to you.

    so eager to defend Trollip?

    When I get into a debate, I try to see both parties' points. I may defend Twirlip, or I may defend you, or (ObTopic) I may defend Apple's legal department. I may look like a devil's advocate, but that's only because a devil's advocate provides useful perspective.

    And don't think you'll get off scott free by saying something like, "I refuse to be challenged by someone calling himself Trolling4Dollars"

    I don't give two sh*ts about user names, as long as you sign your posts, either by posting with your primary /. account or, if you post comments off the main topic as AC to avoid the karma hit, by writing your username at the bottom of the comment. I have made it clear to Twirlip that judging somebody by a nick is not appropriate.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
    1. Re:ACs post at 0 by Trolling4Dollars · · Score: 1

      OK. I read your post in your journal. My aplogies since I thought you were one of Trollip's cronies. Didn't mean to offend since you seem pretty level headed. I just like to play up the "insanity" thing when I run into people like Trollip. It's good for a laugh basically.

  67. Ad hominem by yerricde · · Score: 1

    With a name like yours, you can't possibly expect to be taken seriously, can you?

    Ad hominem attacks are not acceptable. Can we assume that Rob Malda is a fan of Mexican food?

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
    1. Re:Ad hominem by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 2

      Ad hominem attacks are not acceptable.

      Come on, now. Critiquing the source is not always an unfair attack. If a man stood at a lectern in a full Ku Klux Klan outfit and gave a lecture on the evils of affirmative action, would you not take just a moment to consider the source?

      A user who posts under the name "Trolling4Dollars" is asking, positively begging, not to be taken seriously. I merely gave him want he was looking for.

      Since then, he's gotten quite attached to me. In the sense that leeches get attached, I mean. Check out his journal.

      On a completely unrelated topic, I checked out your Losing Nemo site, and I found myself a little confused. What have you got against Disney, exactly? I'd really like to understand your point of view on that subject.

      --

      I write in my journal
  68. re Disney: see my journal by yerricde · · Score: 1

    A user who posts under the name "Trolling4Dollars" is asking, positively begging, not to be taken seriously.

    On the other hand, others may believe that a user who posts as "Twirlip of the Mists" may be asking for the same thing.

    I've covered the anti-Disney issue in my journal so as not to draw a -1 Offtopic by continuing to discuss it here. Please reply there.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
    1. Re:re Disney: see my journal by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 2

      On the other hand, others may believe that a user who posts as "Twirlip of the Mists" may be asking for the same thing.

      Yes, but for those who know where the name "Twirlip of the Mists" comes from, it makes perfect sense. There's a difference between a name that discredits oneself and a name that acts as a shibboleth.

      I've covered the anti-Disney issue in my journal so as not to draw a -1 Offtopic by continuing to discuss it here. Please reply there.

      Will do. I should have thought to check that first. Thanks much.

      --

      I write in my journal