Slashdot Mirror
Yahoo Buying Inktomi
soldack writes "Byte And Switch has a story about Yahoo buying Inktomi. I imagine they will stop using Google. What does this mean for both Google and Yahoo? How much of Google's traffic came from Yahoo? How much is going to come from AOL using Google?" markpapadakis adds a link to CNET's story on same.
How large is Inktomi, and how well does it index the pages?
Which is approximately as news-worthy.
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
Does Yahoo still control a majority of users? I would have expected that MSN would have the greatest portal penetration simply by being the default home-page under windows, and most people I know have been using Google for their searching for a couple of years now (And I mean non-technical users)...Is Yahoo even that relevant any more?
I haven't used anything but Google in a while...even got Searchling (search MacUpdate...or Google for it) to have Google search in my OS X menu bar.
If Yahoo stops using Google, I just won't have any reason to go there anymore. Google is the de facto standard now.
Altavista made it big with babelfish (it's quite possibly the only translator I use). Google made it big with speed, pdf to html (plus pdf searches), cached pages, etc etc.
Seems to me yahoo is more of a "portal" loosely than a search engine anymore, but I can't remember the last time I heard anyone say "I found [insert whatever] on inktomi" at least not in the last 6 years.
My take, google will be fine, I can't begin to name the number of computers I see with google.com as their homepage (more than slashdot).
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
does anyone else think yahoo made this move because google has become a bit more of a portal of late, i.e. google news? there is no doubt google has the superior search technology, but i think yahoo is a little upset that google seems to be trying to be more than 'just search'.
it'll be interesting to see if any overt enmity develops between these two stanford-born businesses....
smd4985
Inktomi gave up their general full-Web search years ago, in favor of selling embedded search services / software to Web site owners. If you look at their site, they also promote their expertise in the second-ickiest of Internet businesses: search engine placement. Yahoo has probably decided that the Inktomi search software is the best available for outright purchase, especially with their ad-placement programs in place.
Save Maine's economy: write stuff down. All comments are exclusively my own, not my employer.
But lately, they have gotten desprate (with the fall out of the Internet advertising market). Annoying Flash ads and Popus are all over Yahoo. They even added banners to Yahoo IM (and some of them are HUGE).
Long live banner free Google!
Karma: The shiznight, mostly because I am the Drizzle.
Google's pagerank algorithm suite is unmatched for searches "in the wild". It uses links between pages to work out search relevance. However, that algorithm is totally inappropriate for providing search within Yahoo's own categorised database; Inktomi's engine is precisely suited for such a task. Yahoo has been using Google and Inktomi's search tech for external and internal searches, respectively, for a while now. I see no reason for Yahoo's buyout to change this. I imagine Yahoo would buy Google too, if it could.
Inktomi's current customers
Yahoo would be well-served building a cross-reference ranking from Google + Inktomi's results. Most of my searches are quite pointed anyway though, so I'm not sure how this could be improved.
Go try the Hotbot or MSN searches yerself. This may well be the future rankings on Yahoo results.
As a trial, I searched for "Oklahoma Dry Spell" and although there was one coinciding match in the top 2, the rest were completely different. It seems Inktomi is a bit more relaxed for inclusions. (14,888 vs Yahoo's 12,800).
For one of the myriad of search engine reviews comparing (roughly) Inktomi and Yahoo/Google, see this page
mug
I swear I've seen /. use Google. I seem to recall doing a search once and being very annoyed because I was redirected to Google results. I wanted to find a week-old article and Google typically refreshes its data only once a month for any given site.
Am I dreaming? Hasn't Slashdot used Google on occassion? Perhaps when its in-house engine was experiencing trouble?
... when Google is going to start offering Instant Messenger services and web-based email. I love Google for anything search related, and wouldn't mind staying with Google for the other online services I require. On the day Google offers email and IM services, I will quit using Yahoo completely.
Until then, yes, I do "Yahoo".
"Times have not become more violent. They have just become more televised."
-Marilyn Manson
I use google not because it gives better results but because i really like the adfree slick interface. Google is user oriented and hasnt fallen into factored searches yet. I think Yahoo needs to get back to basics again and focus on users needs. There are much left to do in search engines left and advertising is not what people using them are after.
HTTP/1.1 400
Yahoo is good for locale-specfic searches (easier for me to find local stuff than Google) but Google is the shiznet for everything else.
Especially with stuff like Froogle, Google Catalogs, and Google News who needs the other search engines?
Yahoo switching to Inktomi will only decrease their traffic..
Cruising the internet on my TI-99/4A @ a whopping 300 baud!
even that I can't earnestly recommend anymore. I simply don't trust them anymore. I'd much rather use a smalltime one that isn't targeted by spammers, preferrably something outside the US, esp. something based in Hong Kong. Less worries about changes of service to comply with government regulations.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
When it comes down to it, the company's who "Get it" will be the ones that succeed. No one wants their search engine to be throwing 3.6 pop-ups per second at them. Google will (hopefully) prosper because it does things the "right" way.
I guess there have been companies that "get it" that failed... but that's usually due to some other dumb business practice.
If you're a Windows user, try Proxomitron. It's a free filter that can block banner ads, Flash ads, sounds, pop-ups and many other really annoying things.
I'm shocked these days when I use a terminal that doesn't have Proxomitron filtering because then I realize just how crappy a place the web has become. I pity anyone who consumes the web raw.
Parent note is disinformative.
What was sold was the enterprise search software tool, not the general search engine database.
While one of Google's main strong point is the lack of ads, I doubt it would be as popular as it is if it did not return such high quality results.
Secondly, as I understand it, Inktomi actually has 2 primary search engines. One is geared towards business use and the other towards consumers (which they got from a recent company they acquired). According to reports Yahoo is basically interested in the business search engine and not the consumer one.
Lastly, I don't see how Yahoo does not focus on users needs. I believe they offer a great suite of online applications, many of them being free. I would disagree if you believe that just because they engage in online advertising that they are not focusing on users.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
"Inktomi? What's that???"
5 years from now people will be saying "Yahoo!? What's that???"
Google's strength has come from sticking to one thing and doing it well. Google does searches and does them better than anyone else. It's that sort of focus and simplicity that other companies lack. If Google started offering portal-like services such as email and chat I would definitely use them (because I know that the quality would be great); however, I rather hope that Google doesn't fall to the temptation of branching out and thus risks its strength.
Who said Freedom was Fair?
"The transaction reflects an aggregate purchase price of approximately $235 million..."
Where the hell did Yahoo come up with $235 million in cash?
Yahoo needs Google more than Google needs Yahoo. Google is one of the few sites on the internet that could go subscription only and still do very well long term. If Yahoo goes subscription for all of its services, people will just move on to another portal. Sure I love that Google is free, but considering how useful Google is I would certainly pay say $19 or more a year for its services. In fact I couldn't imagine an Internet without Google, I'm too reliant on it to go without it. I've tried some of the newer search engines, but really none of them are even close to being as accurate as Google. I'd rather go back to surfing the web with Mosaic than give up Google.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
Yes, I've noticed too /. using Google.
AOL teamed up with Inktomi in early 2000 to go head-to-head vs. Akamai in the content distribution business. So this might be a bit more than just search engine stuff.
My
Limekiller
A more likely reason is probably economical. Google *IS* top dog of the search engine world, and as such it may have been asking for more money than Yahoo was prepared to pay. Remember, Yahoo's main draw is not its web-wide search engine, but its highly moderated Web directory.
As such, it may make sense for them to make a one-off purchase of inktomi, and save themselves the cost of continual lisencing of Google's results.
Ñ'
Inktomi sells inclusion in their results to paying customers. Many results that you normally click on in MSN or other Inktomi distribution partners cost money to the advertiser (about 10 cents each click and up).
To be fair to Inktomi, while they charge for inclusion, your site is still ranked for relevance, so there is no guarantee that your paid links will filter to the top of a search. This is all a Cost-per-Click (CPC) model, or a one time fee for inclusion over a set period of time.
How does this affect Google?
Remember that Google makes their money from search distribution and their sponsored listings. In the short term, it hurts Google a little bit, because they won't be getting paid from Yahoo for that distribution, if Yahoo decides not to use Google in the future. In the long term it does not matter much, because Google's long term revenue model/strategy is the Sponsored Listings (which are being shown at AOL and a variety of their partners ), which Yahoo was not displaying at all. So even if Yahoo were sending 1 billion searches over to Google, none of those are monetized at all.
How will this affect Yahoo?
Over the long term, Yahoo will make more money from this deal, than by using Google's results, because many of the clickthrough's in their standard search (again.. if they use Inktomi instead of Google for that), will provide some CPC revenue for them. They basically want to monetize the standard search results, and the Inktomi acquisition will help them to do that.
Newsfollow.com
I don't think google will notice this that much.
Google will definately see the hits drop. Yahoo is one of the largest search engines and portal systems out there. However with new features like the Froogle engine coming out Google will be on solid foundation.
Reference Links:
froogle.google.com - Search most online shopping cart systems
google.com - Expansive search engine and web archive
yahoo.com - A site that began as a search engine based on human rating, now is a megaportal for all things internet.
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
Search engines are being bought up left and right, and the price keeps going up.
Teoma bought by Ask Jeeves ($4M).
Wisenut bought by Looksmart ($9M).
Inktomi bought by Yahoo ($235M).
Ask Jeeves realized its search technology didn't work, and bought Teoma. Looksmart, now a "search placement" provider, realized no one would look at its commercial listings if they didn't give users some non-commercial search content as well. Yahoo seems to have come to the same conclusion, after farming out to google, etc. If they want to make revenue, they seem to have realized that they have to invest in some original technology.
---- "If we have to go on with these damned quantum jumps, then I'm sorry that I ever got involved" - Erwin Schrodinger
psxndc
The emacs religion: to be saved, control excess.
Well, in my case Yahoo's Google results give me about 11% of my traffic, with MSN (i.e. Inktomi at 5%).
Never email donotemail@WeAreSpammers.com
Am I the only one for whom search engine wars feel charmingly retro? How 90's!
Verity bought out the "enterprise search" technology... which has little to do with the Internet, it's just a piece of server software.
What's left for Yahoo! to get is Inktomi's Internet products, including the search engine itself, the brand image and domain name that comes with it, and the ad placement structure that Inktomi had arranged.
The search engine doesn't seem of particular value to Yahoo since they already have Google for that, but they do get Inktomi's already running pay-for-search-results program that they can use all of the the Yahoo universe now.
I came up with an approach for combining categories and link ranking over a year ago. Unfortunately I gave the idea to Looksmart's management, who gave me a severance check a month or two later.
There are a number of ways in which "known good" listings can be combined with crawled sites using link ranking. One is simply to give the listed sites a high static ranking, putting them before any crawled sites in the search results. If the crawled sites are being supplied on a pay-per-search basis (such as when Google or Inktomi are supplying the "backfill" on a CPM basis), this approach can save a good deal of money, and it's simple enough for management to understand.
Another is to give the listed sites an artificially high pagerank, and allow it to percolate out to linked pages, thereby boosting not only listed homepages, but deeper links in the same site, and nearby linked pages as well. This method leverages the labor of human-ranking pages, yielding a large number of related pages which are probably also on-topic and of decent quality. Kleinberg proposed something similar when he designed the HITS algorithm, as a method of automatically populating web directory categories.
---- "If we have to go on with these damned quantum jumps, then I'm sorry that I ever got involved" - Erwin Schrodinger
I use phoenix and Mozilla. They support multiple homepages. I open my browser, and google and slashdot come up on different tabs. very convenient for me. Horrah for Mozilla and friends. oh yeah. Fuck Yahoo.
A Good Troll is better than a Bad Human.
One lasting contribution Inktomi made
was validating Networks of Workstations
in a commercial context. Remember, at the
time they started, the chief competition
was (DEC-era) AltaVista, which used
the search engine as an example application
for multi-way SMP boxes. Today, you don't
see >2-way SMP used in massive deployments
of applications that are easy to parallelize,
but back when Inktomi started NoW's were novel.
Let not your good luck be confused with good judgement.
Hey, if Google's mission really is to collect all of the information on earth, how soon will it be before Ashcroft's Total Information Awareness ploy causes him to declare eminent domain and seize Google for national interests?
"Google has vowed not to do evil, but evildoers will do evil by exploiting Google. We must stop the evildoers by destroying their evil tool."
Don't just sit there being a website with pretty links
I wonder what was the last time you looked at Yahoo!. It's my yellow pages, it's my newspaper, it's for online-games for my wife. And yes, for websearching I use Google.
bash$
Feature creep is only bad when necessary focus on the existing product and its features is lost. The current Google Search product development is essentially stagnant, and rightly so. Other than the occassional maintenance and search algorithm tweaking, I don't really want Google's Search to change much.
Who cares of Google adds a few more tabs that I don't have to click on (but usually do). New features that you don't use aren't "bloat" when they're inconspicuous and harmless.
Their addition of AdWords and the Web Developer API shows that they're committed to adding new search-related technology, they're supporting the existing infrastructure, and the search GUI remains uncluttered. What more could we ask for?
The notion that "evil is growing" is no more applicable to Google than Fruit of the Loom.
Not really.. Yahoo searches have as many hits here in the US as Google's searches and MSN searches (all three powerered by google).. so, if yahoo's traffic is taken away, theoreatically, one third of google's hits from the US should be taken away. this is, of course, more or less for other countries.