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When Tech Schools Go Bad?
profet asks: "I am currently in the middle of my senior year at Polytechnic University. When I began my journey here I was told by all that it was a good school. Since attending I have gone through much discomfort. The University decided to close down the campus that I attended. Then they decided to change course requirements so that they no longer offered courses that were required for graduation. After talking to others in college it seems that being 'shafted' is common at tech schools. I was wondering how others have faired at their schools." For those who found themselves in this situation, what did you do to resolve your issues?
I go to Vermont Technical College.
They stopped serving alcohol in the lounge.
They took away the student's garage.
My degree will HOPEFULLY be accredited by the time I graduate.
The school is grossly underfunded and run by chowderheads.
Thank god I go to VTC and not YOUR school!! For once the grass ISN'T greener. Compared to what I've heard about other schools, my academic experience at VTC has been pretty l33t So what if my social experience has been a steaming turd.
-73, de n1ywb
www.n1ywb.com
. . .when you go to school in Amityville. Like the poster says: "For God's Sake, Get Out!".
The downturn in the world economy can only have a negative effect on the numbers of American students going to university - when times are bad, people who don't have the benefit of a college fund built up by their parents since birth are less likely to find putting themselves into heavy debt for the foreseable future an attractive proposition for a qualification that won't necessarily get them a well-paid job. And, when there are thousands of people out there who already have those qualifications and years of real-world experience competing for almost every opening, the odds of a new graduate finding his/her dream job - or even a relevant job in their field - can become an impossible task.
(Conversely, in Europe, Australia and elsewhere, where the cost of education to the individual is either paid for or subsidised by the state, a poor job market can be a greater incentive to go to university.)
Fewer students means more choice for students, as colleges are forced to fight harder to get the numbers they need to fill their programmes. Inevitably, this means that the most prestigous universities, such as the Ivy league, MIT, Caltech, will continue to prosper, whilst those lower down the ladder suffer. At the bottom end, it becomes a dog eat dog scenario, and universities that fail to meet their projected student numbers can find themselves vulnerable.
(Of course, the fact that research funding will follow a similar pattern during tough times doesn't help either.)
My guess is your college is one of the vulnerable ones. It's cutting cost where it can (closing down an entire campus surely suggests a fall in student numbers) and making its courses more attractive to students (dropping the need for everyone to take required courses in order to graduate).
Of course, as you're almost finished there, there's little you can do except to bite the bullet and finish your degree. But, if you're going to supplement your education with a masters or a doctorate then you might be better off looking to read those elsewhere - if the college's student numbers and graduate quality falls in the coming years studying elsewhere higher up the food chain should help you from being pigeon-holed as someone who only has "a worthless degree from a third-rate college".
Sure, it's a harsh assessment but, believe me, it's a harsh world out there. Compared to the real world, college is paradise.
Good luck for the future.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
I guess RIT isn't nearly as bad as I thought it was in comparison to other tech schools. I just received my Bachelors from RIT, so I shouldn't bitch too much.
"Why do you consent to live in ignorance and fear?" - Bad Religion
If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
He forgot to mention that the guy to girl ratio is like 1000:1
I'm a freshman here. I don't have quite as many entertaining stories, yet. Um I got one tho.
You have to take this course, CS1114 which is a basic intro to CompSci. If you take the AP Computer Science exam (and get a 4 or you might need a 5, i am not sure, I got a 5 (the highest)) you get credit for it and go move on to CS1124 w/o taking 1114. Here's the kicker: They'll give you credit for AP Computer Science A, but not AB. Guess which one I took? Yeah, AB the more "advanced" course. So I had to take 1114, and it was immensely boring. I know when kid who got them to place him into 24 anyway, but he doesn't have credit for 14.
Oh and as someone else already mentioned, the female population is practically non-existant.
Looks to be a "fun" four years.
Why not fork?
If you got into MIT and went to Poly, you shouldn't've gotten into MIT. If you went to Poly because you didn't get in anywhere else, why complain? You know you couldn't do better. Unless it was the money, in which case, feel better. Other people have college loans, you probably don't.
As a graduate of that very same university, (actually, I got my BS, as in bullshit, degree from the Farmingdale campus right before it closed. A week later they had the windows boarded up), I can vouch for the validity of this article.
:)
There were only 6 people in my class for junior and senior year (Mechanicl Engineering). Four of them were taking the aerospace electives, which means the university couldn't justify opening up a whole class for just two students. Fortunately we got through taking senior-level courses from other majors as electives.
In terms of education, though, it really is a pretty good school. Good professors (mostly) and reasonable resources. Administration wise the school is an absolute nightmare. Unfortunately, I'm hearing that most colleges are like that. (I once got a bill for $0 and my account suspended because I didn't pay the balance. It took me three trips to the registrar to fix that one!)
My advice? Hold your breath, close your eyes, and get it over with. You've made it this far, and you'ld be stupid to quit now. And don't forget to bitch to the administration. A lot. The squeeky wheel get the grease.
And hey profet, kick Emperor Chan in the nuts for me if you see him
=Smidge=
Poly is unfortunately,a terrible school in terms of student relations. I went there starting in '95 and transfered out asap. Sorry to have to say this, but their proiorities aren't churning out good graduates, but sucking them in.
From that stupid 3 person staffed registrar area, to the badly admined sun servers (is utopia.poly.edu still around?), bad computer labs, terrible classrooms.
Maybe it was a great school 20 years ago, but a lot has to be fixed before they start building new things like the gym, the dorms (which are only like a third full and such.
-
ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only
No, seriously. :)
;x
My cousin graduated from ### in 2002 for Computer Science. Well, he installs Cat 5 now for a living. (I believe he had a high GPA, too.)
If even he can't get a job, how am I supposed to when I attend a community college for the same field? People aren't getting jobs in Computer Science recently; instead, they are losing jobs. And, it seems that people who are hired (or stay) have to work crazy hours! And the third kicker is that even if he *is* hired, then even he won't be paid more than $30,000 (versus hundreds of thousands in the dot com boom) to start, most likely than not. All this, while doing more work than a programmer previously probably ever had to.
With programming losing its dignity, and the 1% female rate in classes, I'm going NUTS. The hardest part about switching majors is that the other major I've been considering for the past two days is not offered at my school.
I am thinking I could use my love for programming in personal projects while working many weird jobs in the mean time.
That's why I believe the best plan for me will be to resign from ############## and attend the other college.
I guess CS was worth it back when pay and hiring was at a high, but exploring other interests now that the light has shown itself seems like the best idea for me. It used to be that the Visual Arts major I'm thinking about was the interest and CS was a sure thing to fall back on, while now it could sadly be true to think the opposite!!
Let me be the first to say this: CS majors should be ready to fall back on some similar venture or another venture that they would enjoy doing, in case CS doesn't work out!
Cover your eyes and click this link!
I would highly recommend GT. I had my share of complaints, same as everyone else (real shortage of parking for students, for example), but overall it's a really good school and a really great experience.
:^)
Come prepared to learn! Even now, after more than ten years, I'm finding that the education I received there was more thorough and challenging than a lot of other places.
But the social life sucks. Fortunately, Emory is just down the road, and UGA isn't too far.
b.g.
Hey buddy. I feel your pain. I REALLY do! However, let me provide a little bit of perspective for you. I graduated college way back in 1993. If you don't remember 1993 very well, that was the year we were coming out of the Bush Senior recession of the early nineties. The situation wasn't that much different then than it is now.
Like you, I was graduating with a tech degree which I thought would be my ticket to riches and glory. Unfortunately, not a lot of companies were hiring entry level people, and the ones that were offered salaries that were in the $20K-$30K range. Hardly what you'd call a booming job market.
Here's the thing though. I love CS and I love technology. Even though I had a fallback (I took a couple of the actuarial certification exams in college), I knew that I would enjoy working in the software field more than any other (legal) occupation. I kept pounding the pavement and through a combination of hard work and luck, I was able to land a job doing software development for $30K. Sure it sounds low by dot-com standards, but the dot-com salaries are the exception, not the rule.
Fast forward to the late when everybody and their mother was looking for software developers.... I was in a great position to take advantage of the boom. I had several years experience, a proven track record, and a passion for what I was doing.
In summary, all I can say is this: if the reason you went into CS was to get a six-figure salary as a "web developer" without any effort, then you shouldn't have majored in CS in the first place. If you do enjoy CS, then do some work and look for a job, take that "low" $30K job like the rest of us had to, and when the next boom hits (and there WILL be another boom), you'll be sitting pretty.
------
www.moneybythenumbers.com
My cousin graduated from ### in 2002 for Computer Science. Well, he installs Cat 5 now for a living.
Well, that's what he gets for going to ####. I know a guy that went to $$$$$ and he's making a bundle.
That's why I believe the best plan for me will be to resign from ############## and attend the other college.
Where do you go to school? Richard Nixon University? I mean, ############# is the ######### with all ### ###########?
I am currently in the middle of my senior year at Polytechnic University.
The name should have given it away immediately. In Britain at least, the term "polytechnic" is synonymous with poor-quality education - so much so that a few years ago they all renamed themselves to try to blend in with the real universities and colleges. Still, everyone knows which are the ex-polys and the stigma remains. If you want a good education, go to a place with a bit of history, 100 years or more, because you can trust that it knows how to maintain its quality.
Haha, you thought the registrar in farmingdale is bad...
Believe you me, in brooklyn, it's 10 times worse. We get online registration, but not really - you have to go see the woman in person to get a hold removed from your account so you can register online (!?!?).
Check out http://www.polytalk.com for an inside view of what's goin on at brooklyn nowadays.
-Tomaj
You Americans swear by the capitalist system, but when the simple fact of an over-supply of 'engineers' causes the market to collapse, you insist the problem is elsewhere.
I swear by the capitalist system, I graduated Poly, and I still have a job that pays very well, thank you. Yes, the present problem is due to a glut of engineers, attracted by fat salaries and easy employment back in the '80s and '90s. Now, the market is correcting itself, and will even out eventually. So what? It's not as if central planners are any better at this sort of thing than the laws of supply and demand are. In either system, those who are capable keep their jobs, while those who are not lose theirs.
Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
I checked it out, and that site sounds like a bunch of freshman whining. I was hearing those same complaints when I was there (BEE '91), all of which are highly overblown.
I lived on-campus all three years I was at GT, and rarely had problems with parking because I didn't try to drive to class (it's only like a mile between the two farthest points on campus anyway), and I did most of my commuting (grocery store, errands, etc.) during off-peak hours. I wasn't always able to park 50 ft. from my dorm, but I was always able to find a spot somewhere.
As for food, I didn't mind it. I ate at Woodruff and the SU regularly, and never had any complaints. They were no Chez Junior's (a local eatery called "Juniors" was), of course, just straight cafeteria fare. When I needed a change, I just hit one of the bazillion off-campus options.
Housing? Be realistic in your expectations, don't go expecting Club Med. It was darned convenient to live on campus, because I didn't give a shit about who my roommate was--- I was so busy with work and classes, I never saw them anyway. The dorms aren't posh, but they're far better than what GTSux makes them out to be. That includes the year I spent in Techwood, a 1940's-era (?) building that was reclaimed from a nearby housing project and turned into student housing.
Now, about academics. I'm a graduate of the engineering school, so I have limited experience in the other schools other than hearsay from fellow dorm-dwellers. But my impression is that their experiences were similar to mine. That includes the Architecture school and College of Computing.
I _never_ felt I was getting shafted, or that the profs were being unreasonable. All the professors uniformly expect you to work hard and to know how to apply the material, not just regurgitate it on a test. If you can do that, then you'll get by just fine. And you _can_ do that, if you put your mind to it. During times I was genuinely trying but struggling, the professors were very supportive.
If, on the other hand, you intend to spend your time at GT living scenes out of Animal House, you're in for trouble. The whiners behind GTSux probably fit into this category.
Just my $0.02.
b.g.
One more thing. You can believe the hype about GT being a top-tier school. Even in retrospect, I still believe it is. And it's an incredible bargain, too.
b.g.
... was to branch out and add some meat to my degree by taking other classes. In my particular case, I graduated with a dual major in Pure Mathematics and CS, with a minor in English Lit. I took more coursework than I would have otherwise, but I think my degree is more impressive to potential employers than it would be otherwise. I'm a programmer, but the English minor demonstrates that I have some skill with words as well, which is valuable. Of course, in our innumerate society, the math degree convinces a large number of people that I must be some kinda genius math whiz. Silly, but their lack of understanding works to my benefit.
For me, however, it's been equally important that I can speak to people. Those skills are really, really important. I'm not naturally gregarious, and I don't have a silver tongue, but I spent two years as a Mormon missionary in Mexico doing nothing but talking to people all day, every day -- all kinds of people, from every walk of life. The result of that investment (made for completely unrelated reasons) was that I largely overcame my bookish nature. I also became fluent in a foreign language, which hasn't ever been a clear differentiator that I can see, but has to have been an advantage.
In addition, I also spent 8 years in the US Air Force Reserves being, of all things, a cop/security guard. That experience has proven surprisingly valuable and, when combined with the interest in cryptology I developed while completing my math degree, has made it very easy for me to move into the particular sub-field of computer security that I currently inhabit. The leadership opportunities I had as an Air Force NCO taught me a great deal about working with people in a superior/subordinate role (though I think I'm still not great at it). Even my year working part-time as a convenience store clerk has proven to be very valuable in my software career.
In summary: Most geeks in training are pretty bright people, who are capable of doing a lot of things. Broaden your background, add some "softer" stuff, do something that requires extensive human interaction (and not just with other geeks!) and you'll have more to offer a potential employer. For example, my current boss values my programming skills and my expertise in cryptology and secure system design, but he also appreciates (even more, actually), the fact that he can send me in to deliver a technical marketing pitch to senior execs of a multi-national corp, or to talk to a group of line workers in a factory to understand their jobs and how IT systems could facilitate them, or to lead a team of software developers, testers, technical writers and subject-matter experts in defining, building and deploying a solution.
My company (IBM) just went through a couple of rounds of major layoffs but I wasn't ever really concerned. Why? Because I'm *flexible*, and that makes me more valuable than many geeks. That's not to say that I couldn't end up on the street also, but (a) my expertise is sufficiently broad-ranging that I can fit into a lot of technical niches and (b) there are a few other things that I can do, even though they'd pay quite a bit less.
Anyway, breadth of experience, and not just technical experience, has worked very well for me, and I see plenty of reason why it would work equally well for others.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
Assuming that the posting wasn't intended as flamebait, in the U. S. the term "polytechnic" is NOT "synonymous with poor-quality education." It is mostly just an indication that the school DOES have a long history.
For example, WPI (Worcester Polytechnic Institute) and RPI (Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute) are both fine schools.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
just transfer, thats what I did. I just had enough of professors looking to fail you, pipes that leaked shit(and I do mean shit), and the "we're getting screwed" attitude of everyone from the students to the administration. I go to SUNY Stony Brook now, and they have actual resources(my workstation of choice in the computer lab is a SunBlade 1000) and tuition is only $4k a year. Its no less respected by industry and all that stuff about having a 2.0GPA from poly is better then a 3.5 from most schools is bullshit. A 3.5 is a 3.5. And no it isn't perfect but the administration is able to run a campus of 17,000 undergrads, massive research programs, and an actual campus bigger then my backyard, a hell of a lot better then Poly runs their university.
He created the site last year and complained about the freshman housing so he's definitely a sophomore now. He had a good reason to complain about that considering he was in a dorm that was closed for Spring to be renovated. I don't know which was worse for them, having to live there in Fall or being forced to move out.
His complaints are still valid; nothing on his site was fabricated, though obviously some things are made to sound worse than they really are. I didn't enjoy Scheme when I took the class, but I was a teaching assistant for it last semester, and it actually made sense.
Seriously though, GaTech is worth it. It has a great reputation and really isn't that hard if you put forth some effort and show up to class every once in awhile.
At some point, maybe between my sophomore and junior years, my university switched from quarters to semesters. Many pairs of classes were combined into a single new class... and needless to say the university required you to retake the new semester-long class if you only had one of the prereqs.
Toss in the normal shuffling over 4 years, etc., and I think everyone in know had to hustle to complete graduation requirements. I know I ended up filling the paperwork for an associates degree for under one of the early catalogues, then using that degree as a "pre-existing AS degree" to waive all of the lower-division requirements for my BS. Toss in the fact that I could never decide between a math or physics degree and I ended up with three diplomas (one AS, two BS) in less than a year.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
I also graduated around 1993. I had a full time job doing a little programming in Texas, but I knew I wanted to move back to Colorado - so I just moved back into my parents house and started looking for work. After a hundred or so resumes and two months later, I had found a job... on a QA team. From there I was happily able to convince them of my programming avbilites and move to development before too long.
My starting salary? About $22k. That was a year after school with some real experience elsewhere.
That said, I still think times are a little tougher now for CS grads. Because of all the hiring freezes and out of work computer people, I'm not sure how entry level people find jobs at all right now. It doesn't seem like there was so much a similar flood of youngish developers floating around in 1993 to scarf up jobs like there is now.
Even so, I pretty much agree that the best path for a student now is to stick with CS, then get a job in a company doing anything close to programming - like QA or support. From there once there is a shortage again (which there will be) you can be in good shape to move your programming career forward. Don't give up on CS as a degree as it will serve you well if that is what you want to do as a living, and will help you to move more quickly out of a QA/support position.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
considering he was in a dorm that was closed for Spring to be renovated. I don't know which was worse for them, having to live there in Fall or being forced to move out.
well I went through that, they closed 6th street last summer, and my roommate and I had to move out. we're talking 10 computers, quite a few monitors in varying sizes, a bookshelf full of books, big TV, etc. and they didn't do jack to 6th street during their "renovation." yeah, that's highly annoying, especially when you've amassed the massive amounts of stuff from living in the apartment dorms (oh, and having 4 hours from the time you get your new keys until the time you have to be out of your old place).