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The Age Interviews Linux Advocate Rick Moen
An anonymous reader writes "The Age interviews Rick Moen, a software generalist from the Linux community and an advocate for Open Source software." Rick's been a real catalyst for the Linux community over the years, helping organize the LINC Expo, Windows Refund Day, Linux birthday parties, and more. An entertaining read.
Perhaps he could assist us in a "Linux on the Commodore" campaign. I know Junis would really appreciate the Divx ;-) and xviD codecs on his commodore so he wouldn't have to download the Baywatch VCDs every week.
He is mesmerized by open source.
Is that all it takes to raise yourself to stardom these days?
"Consider how lucky you are that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far
Just out of curiosity, what does a software generalist do?
I know I can probably look this up on google, but I figure this is as good a place as any to have this question answered.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
He was in a "HomeBrew Computer Club". I'd love to have a similar thing at my school, but I just don't have time with the principal blackmailing me and all those useless classes like "English" that I'm stuck with next semester. That and in TN so many of my classmates are stupid that we only have one person of any intelligent interest. I hereby declare my server the new stomping grounds for the Jeffferson County High School Computer Club of Tennessee.
Oh well; guess I won't get an interview for a while.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
Please add to it as needed:
1) Mention the words "open source."
2) Mention the words "linux advocate."
3) Mention the word "micro$oft". Note that spelling (but not necessarily capitalization) will count in this, and only this, case.
4) Mention Linus' full name. The first name alone may not get your article accepted.
5) Mention how you only boot to Windows when you NEED to. Usually mentioning it in the context of a video game (like Diablo) helps. Mentioning that you buy games from Loki whenever it's possible will help you big time.
6) Use the word "anime."
7) Do not use the phrase "in soviet russia."
8) Do not use the words "Junis" or "Jon Katz."
9) Drop the name of a lesser known Linux distro.
10) Use the phrase "software generalist" or any other newly invented buzzword.
here, I'll submit it in a minute. Maybe I will get an interview after all!
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
"Frontpage wins hands down" ?!?!?!?!
Bloody hell.. you're a mosaicist...
"Consider how lucky you are that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far
People with elephants hurt people! Bring on tougher elephant control laws!
er.. masochist even..
hmm.. or maybe not..
"Consider how lucky you are that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far
LMFAO!
[Points and laughs]
Stop I can't breathe!
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
I bitch on #debian a lot, does that make me a software generalist?
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
when it comes to webpage editing without spending the time to learn HTML..Frontpage wins hands down.
Try Dreamweaver - you'll never go back.
maybe people are actually starting to RTFA.
To save my karma:This guy reminds me of John Gage; excellent "Titans of Tech" biography on TechTV.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
Rick used to be a BSD guy. Rick, come back to the light! We need to rescue you from the dark side of the source. linux is NIH to the nth degree and is setting back the progress of computer science. BSD forever!
But having said that, I must say that I agree with him on a number of major points.
1. Linux is NOT for everyone. In my line of work, many people complain if you move their taskbar, nevermind changing their OS.
2. BUY LINUX. only support for the companies that create your distributions will keep them creating those distributions. (I have bought every version of RedHat since 6 and a couple of copies of SuSE, etc)
3. Linux is not the next wave of the desktop... yet. In the server field, Linux has most things tied up. Stability... Rock Solid. Usability for the uninitiated desktop user... Still sucks, sorry.
Just my 2cents. -jk
No one can read your sarcastic posts!
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
windowsrefund.net
I'm participating, tell your friends.
- tristan
Let's all "return" warez winshit serial numbers!
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
How many people knew he would look like that?
New slang term for Linux advocacy?
Honorary Member of Jackie Chan's Kung Fu Process Servers
I don't post on Slashdot much anymore, but I think a lot of people seem to be suffering from a bit of an attitude problem here tonight.
I've never heard of "The Age", but the article certainly puts forth the qualifications to consider Rick a linux advocate and probably a more experienced/knowledgable member of the linux and open source community than the vast chunk of Slashdot.
It is an article promoting his advocacy and talking about his efforts. It isn't like they reported that he wrote the Linux OS and he was going along with the assumption.
He's done what any reasonably capable linux advocate would have done when asked to interview with an outlet - he _promoted_ linux. Wow! Imagine that.
I don't see that he has said anywhere that he deserves attention beyond anyone else and he's not taking anything away from anyone who contributes to the cause.
Damn people. Be humble.
Mr. "I have excellent karma so I don't have to post to /.
/. reader himself. He is in the "Excellent Karma" bracket if anyone cares.
We were joking about the article not the man, who happens to be a
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
Not fair!
Actual workers mod you down!
This is my third such post to 0modded comments.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
Define irony.
You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
Just so you know - The Age is an old and venerable institution in Australia (been round 100 or so years) as a "quality" broadsheet. It is based in Melbourne Australia.
Now in the Murdoch stable (part of news corp_ is still does a reasonable job of annoying politicians of all persuasions and beuaracrats, as well as having excellent cricket reporting. It has a reputation as a bit left-wing (I think it was more from being an agitator in a conservative country) but that has slided a bit with Murdoch ownership.
The Singularity is closer than you think
Quant
And I certainly couldn't imagine telling people not to use them. Perhaps you're thinking of someone else entirely?
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
The rest of this seems to be pretty generic attempted mudslinging from behind cover of anonymity, but I was really rather startled by those characterisations, e.g., the bit about moralising at people they need to "take a stand against MS".
As you'll see if you read the article, I have no interest in convincing people to "take a stand against MS". I personally prefer Linux (mostly); when/if other people prefer different software, that's entirely their business.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
...FrontPage writes you!
But seriously -- FrontPage sucks dead donkey dicks. (Can you say, "IIS/MSIE only?") No serious site developer I know uses it. And no-one is going to take seriously anybody who admits to using it. You may now resume playing Tomb Raider with one hand while jerking off over Laura Croft with the other, fucktard.I've certainly been known to tell people they "don't have to load Red Hat", if they seem to have picked up that impression and are asking my advice. For most people running desktop setups, if they ask, I tend to recommend Libranet, Lycoris Desktop/LX, Linux-Mandrake, or SuSE.
But I'm glad to help people with RH. I think three people at the last SVLUG installfest used my CDs of RH 8.0, and I duplicated a set on the spot for someone else. Currently, I also have ISOs of the post-8.0 "Phoebe" beta. A couple of days ago, I invited anyone interested to visit and make copies.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
But the sheer irony of your posting gratuitous, anonymous personal attacks concerning my "going far beyond what is necessary or reasonable" is really very funny.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
Guy, whoever you are, you obviously don't know me at all, and it was downright tacky to attack my character behind cover of anonymity, and try to sound self-righteous while doing it. Want to be concerned about "something that isn't right"? Try starting at home.
While I'm addressing the anonymity crowd: An allegedly different (I suppose) AC alleged that anyone who asks me about how to run Visio at work within Linux will get nothing but tirades against usage of Visio anywhere, on grounds of a need to "take a stand against MS". Which, I pointed out, is nothing at all like my view (as should have been obvious from The Age's article).
But anyone who bothers to check Google for my name plus "Visio" will see what I've actually said (very consistently) on that subject, when asked, for about three or four years: That some simple charting applications (dia, kivio) exist, but that anyone who is used to Visio and wants it specifically will probably end up needing to run genuine Visio via vnc or VMware; that I don't yet know of any reasonable substitutes.
And that, of course, is still my view today.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
I'm not saying that DW's the be-all and end-all, but it can produce quality, standards-compliant markup and CSS that's well-formatted when it's being used by someone who knows and cares about such things (as which any "serious" developer ought to qualify). FrontPage, on the other hand, produces true spaghetti HTML -- which I believe makes it unique among "visual" Web page design tools. As for the JavaScript, ASP and PHP code DW generates (I don't do JSP or ColdFusion, myself, so you'd have to ask someone who does how it stacks up with regard to those, but I suspect it does about the same) -- well, I tend to agree with the guy who said that all programming code generators tend to suck somewhat because someone who knows what they're doing can optimise in ways that DW can't. But -- for a code generator -- it doesn't do too bad.
I've been in Web design since '96 and I've been using Dreamweaver on and off ever since the first public beta became available in '97 or '98, and my experience is that DW in the hands of an amateur won't produce high-quality pages any more than a copy of Photoshop will instantly turn you into a graphic artist if you don't have some knowledge and training as one.
Don't blame the typewriter when the real culprit is more likely to be the monkey who's pounding the leys.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
I'm sorry that you see my posts as personal attacks.
:o)
:o)
He's not the only one.
From what I can see about this discussion, here's my interpretation of the incident you're describing:
Someone (possibly even you) called Redhat "Linux 7.1" (or whatever)
Rick told them that Redhat != Linux, and there are other distributions - then (probably) went on to explain what a distribution was.
This person (again, possibly you) didn't like his attitude (because it shows that he/you're wrong), and sets out to assasinate Rick's character whenever possible.
I see something that isn't right and so I speak up
Again, this is solely my interpretation from reading your comments and Rick's, but (to me, at least) your comments make me sympathetic to Rick.
Of course, maybe you are Rick, and this is just a clever ploy to cause me to gain sympathy for you (for your own evil ends!)
'scuse me, I have to go find my tinfoil hat now
Mr Moen, when his character is attacked in a public forum, has a right to defend himself. If I'm ever covered in Slashdot, I'll do the same.
Mr. Moen has the right to any opinion he wants and he should be able to express it.
That being said, I feel that Kernigheze such as Mr. Moen have effectively done more to crush linux on the desktop than Bill Gates ever could. Such callous attitudes towards end users and the "linux does not entitle you to a usable interface, so shut up and quit whining" mantra only further strengthen Microsofts hold on desktop computing and chase away people who want to make linux more usable.
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
Here's the first one, and it was my first experience with Rick Moen being a dickhead.
http://www.eblug.org/forums/read.php?f
To summarize this post.. EBLUG had used Frontpage originally to design their website. Rick apparently didn't like this and called them a disgrace, basicly saying they shouldn't have a LUG because of this. I agree that it probably wasn't the brightest idea but they had to put up a page quickly and the guy didn't know HTML so he did it with Frontpage. Rick is GREAT with words, I don't know half of the big words he uses, if I did I would probably write a book. It's really hard to corner him because of this. I personally like this one - "neatly self-parodying. Commendably efficient of you." Keep in mind this was written a few years ago. Before the 2.4 kernel, etc. etc. So yes, I don't give a crap what you guys say Frontpage/Dreamweaver/Whatever beat the HELL out of any Linux-based webpage editor if your building a big site and not great at HTML.
Maybe you should look through archives of Moen's exchanges in the mailing lists. That'll probably change your mind. :-)
Apologies and thanks for correcting me
The Singularity is closer than you think
Quant
There's an episode where someone is reading "Make left at fork in road..." to which the russian driver replies "IN SOVIET RUSSIA, THE ROAD FORKS YOU!"
but I could be mistaken...
...spike
Ewwwwww, coconut...
You know, SVLUG, ditching that blabber mouth, Rick, from your list was the best thing you guys did. I know Rick would like to have everyone believe that he left the list on his own ... but everyone knows, or knows now, that most of the SVLUG had enough of his abusive treatment of just about anyone on-list, and forced him to cease contact with the list. Hurrah for decency! Welcome back new Linux users; Rick is gone, so it's safe to post!
Shhhhh! Please, fuck quietly... the children are asleep in Post-Soviet Russia!
SVLUG had enough of his abusive treatment of just about anyone on-list, and forced him to cease contact with the list.
I simply stopped having time for the SVLUG list in mid-2001, the list often suffering high volume and a serious S/N problem, but do lurk and post there on occasion.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
You wish I were an AC, Mister Onymous Coward. There's no need to explain who I am, to you.
That's an extremely odd way of saying, "I got booted from the SVLUG list by all the list's participants."
See, what did I tell you all? Rick would more than love for everyone to believe that he didn't feel the community pressure to part ways with the SVLUG list. Maybe he didn't. But he did feel the proverbial boot in August 2001. His presence on the SVLUG list has been NULL for over a year, yet his activity on other lists on which he posts has been constant, if not increased, since. The "S/N problem" on the SVLUG list ceased shortly after Rick was ousted from the list. Nobody wanted his on-list abuse anymore, and the community prevailed. It's been great without the noise created by Rick, and without his attacks on community individuals. For all SVLUG list subscribers, past and present, who were intimidated by Rick's uncouth behaviour, feel free to post to the SVLUG list, again.
- Avoid the man's inordinately malodorous feet at all costs.
His presence on the SVLUG list has been NULL....
It might well continue to be rather light, because I simply don't have time, as I'm busy with other affairs.
Anyhow: One can't notice (1) that you're changing your story between posts -- probably because your Google research was faulty? -- but also (2) that you've been the one posting abuse, noise, and uncouth behaviour. (And, for all I know, all of the AC flamers who've plagued this topic might well be the same pair of bored teenagers in west Texas. I hope for SVLUG's sake that that's so.) I honestly don't know what your problem is, but the irony's been pretty thick.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
Excellent. Readers note that "rather light" is being used an extremely loose synonym for "nonexistent" in this context.
That's correct, one can't notice it, because I'm not changing topics whatsoever. The departure of Rick's noise from the SVLUG is welcome at all times, and hopefully not taken for granted by now, since it's been a long period without it. The community knows noise when it sees it, and hopefully rejects it, no matter what the source is.
I have been bringing to light the truth behind a major complaint from community members about Rick's noise and abuse in on-line lists, and how the SVLUG triumphantly rejected Rick's behaviour. The thread subject has been kept constant, and the subject has remained on point (except for this bit of a diversion to correct an obvious attempt to confuse the readers). If this thread is considered noise to those whom have endeavoured to follow the links, I appreciate all the efforts to maintain interest in this "noise" for this amout of time.
As for the SVLUG list and community, congratulations for maintaining a friendly environment for members of the Linux community, new and established alike, to discuss the topics du jour without fearing abusive dissent from Onymous "flamers." I'm sure you all find it delightful to experience the list in it's present, low-noise, friendly state. Thanks to all of you who rise to the occasion and strive to make such an effort a continual success, in the SVLUG list and elsewhere.
Readers note that "rather light" is being used an extremely loose synonym for "nonexistent" in this context.
You seem to have miss the Mailman archive link I posted earlier to disprove your initial post's rather scurrilous factual claim. Whereupon, as mentioned, your story suddenly mutated. The rest of your stuff, by contrast, amounted to basically name-calling:
I appreciate all the efforts to maintain interest in this "noise" for this amount of time.
Which is, to be sure, a perfectly delightful way to characterise spurts of unilateral personal flamage posted from cover of anonymity. The reason I was saying it's probably a couple of bored teenagers in west Texas reflects no intent to malign the perfectly nice folk who live there, but rather difficulty otherwise imagining anywhere -- well -- dull enough to drive anyone to that kind of public misbehaviour. Apologies to any Lubbockites I might have inadvertantly offended.
Rick Moen
rick@linuxmafia.com
Rick Moen is certainly an asset to our luv mailing list.
(luv@luv.asn.au) Linux Users of Victoria.
I am one clueless newbie who has been totally stunned by the incredible amount of time Rick has devoted to helping me. He has replied prompty over a period of more than 4 days ro my posts with pages of information and easy to follow instructions each time. I have never received such an incredible amount of help before from a stranger on the other side of the globe. His patience in explaining, what to him is the most basic stuff. was never ending, and he never once made me feel like the cluelless newbie I am. Rick is amazing is all I can say.
The `loner' may be respected, but he is always resented by his colleagues,
for he seems to be passing a critical judgment on them, when he may be
simply making a limiting statement about himself.
-- Sidney Harris
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