CDMA 2000 1x Comes to India

nilesh writes "Yesterday, Reliance Infocomm launched one of the largest CDMA networks in the world [Google news]. This wireless network will cover 90% of India's population on a backbone of 60,000 kms of optic fibre. They have dreams of providing an Internet-enabled Java-powered CDMA2000 1x phone to almost every Indian citizen for around tariffs as low as 40 paise per minute or 0.8 cents per minute. The Samsung/LG/Kyocera phones will be replete with applications ranging from internet banking to video on demand and online gaming. Now all we need is Quake for Java and we'll have college kids playing deathmatches with each other in classroom at 144kbps. The next game revolution is in sight."

Comments

what the hell is happening in india?

[peripatetic_bum]

I keep hearing and reading stories of Indian taking leap after technological leap (even if its just attempted leaps). First the leaped in the future of programming, then linux (the open source initiative that pretty much may have kicked Microsoft in the balls) and now this network leap.

Has India reached some sort of critical mass that the US hasnt reached? I know they are supposed to be a poor country but hell, it feels like they are just about to leap frog over everyone in the next couplt of months. :)

would like to hear replies and thanks for reading

Re:what the hell is happening in india?

[gabbarsingh]

Answer: The Internet and a booming Consumer middle class.

As an Indian, I grew up amongst the ideas of conseravationist approach to life - use less electricity, lead as less materialistic life as possible - remenant of Gandhi's self-reliance theory. Since we don't have resources so we must consume less.

This changed with the 90s reform, globalization, and the Internet. People learnt to consume - letting go off securities of saving money and spending judicially to credit cards and financing cars. Cable TV and MTV (Asia) encouraged the youth to let go of the seemingly secure shackles and embrace a consumer lifestyle - Ray Bans, Nike, Levis, Budweiser etc. All these "new" ideas found roots and manifestation is spending money on things besides necessities. The circle of consumption is now established and people are open to the idea of faster, better, cheaper.

The Internet acted as catalyst. The two "sects" using the Internet were rich people and academia. And then the students in academia went on to be corporate managers etc so it spread. The Internet brought Linux few were in for ideology while most are in for the coolness factor. In India a brainy chap is cool although with the 'aping the west' the term "geek" has made it into the pop-culture. These "geeks" are wannabe geeks.

So socio-economic transformation and H1B people's exposure to business and s/w has development has tilted the scales in favor service economy. Service economy depends on tiers of services which is another win for business spending. All these factors contribute to a demand for communication among other things.

India has a healthy middle class of 300million - more than US' entire population and more for China who has witnessed fruits of globalization earlier and with Taiwan next doors as an evidence of success, Chinese and Indian are eager to catch up.

IMHO, US has the greatest and strongest economy however current trend of "cutting cost" to serve an unknown master is not doing anyone any good.

Good for India...

[Anonymous Coward]

but bad for US and Canada, in the long run. Indian government realised that the only way they can reduce poverty and improve the condition of India's citizes is through technology. Permeating every class in the society with the technology will enable even the poorest people to access the learning materials and colaborate with other people in developing new products and services. Those products and services will in turn be sold and smart people who understand technology, no matter how poor they were, will get a chance to rise above the class to which they belonged and achieve their full potential.

It is really too bad that US and Canada, with their sub-substandard primary and secondary education, and lack of technological vision in governmental leaders, will fall behind in technology and be reduced to the land of financial speculators and marketing people.

Re:Good for India...

[zogger]

yes and no, just saying "technology" will save you is incomplete. The industrialised western wealthy "world" got that way in the 19th and 20th centuries by exploiting almost free oil and water and building stuff using technological advances. Those three things are all needed, leave out any one of those three parts, you'll stay a poor nation. China is advancing technologically as well as india, the difference is they build stuff,not just talk about it or design it or trade it, they MANUFACTURE things by the cubic mile, and realising they will be needing more and more oil have picked the muslim oil producing nations to court and trade with, wheras india will forever be at war with where the oil comes from, hence, they will never achieve first world advanced wealthy status. They might achieve a much larger middle class-maybe- but won't become any sort of world power without cheap energy they own.

I am NOT dissing the Indians, just pointing out basic economies. Oil and water AND adoption of technology makes technologically superior nations, not just schooling. India has about zilch for their own energy sources, and in manufacturing they are way behind. Japan was able to suceed by having all brand new manufacturing facilities built relatively recently after world war 2 and by being extremely protectioinist and taking advantage of oil at 2 to 10$ a barrel during the boom years of the 50s through the 70s, now they are hurting and are floundering in a sea of debt with zero hopes of recovering, although they are still making stuff that is advanced and cool, lack of energy will gradually drop their power and influence once china's oil thirst grows larger and as they complete their vertical manufacturing infrastructure. I would suggest NEVER underestimate how important cheap oil has been, is, and will be in the future. India is in even worse shape. They are enjoying a temporary boom that will fizzle in around ten years or so, IMO, as programming becomes more automatic with better tools and easy for almost anyone to do, while at the same time oil increases in scarcity and price. The oil producers will want durable goods, not programs. China is the big winner this century, because they have the only logical and viable long range wealth creation plan now. You are correct about the decline of the US and Canada, we've been sold out for short term profits by our various current "leaders" in the politics/business cartel, and also by your observation of the delibarate "dumbing down" of the populations here by inferior schooling and over emphasis on trivial matters and wealth re-arranging rather than what we were the worlds best at, which was wealth-creating. We are throwing that away for short term mega profits right now, too bad, too. Canada has a chance because of their oil,gas and water wealth, but it remains to be seen if their socialistic governmental structure is up to the task or not, in my observations the jury is still out on that. If they adopted the past japanese model of protectionism and not just selling off natural resources but USING them instead they could be much wealthier, but looks to me like they got sucked into the same trap the US middle class got sucked into by their "leaders", trading real cheap trinkets for a few years for eventual loss of income.

Re:waste of money?

[metlin]

You are wrong, and have no idea how wrong you are.

This has absolutely nothing to do with helping the poor, or trying to get a phone to a beggar in India. It has everything to do with the fact that Reliance is providing the right service at the right time.

Reliance is not just a J Random company in India. Reasons why this will be a killer service in India.

They have done their groundwork beautifully well. They have been laying fiber optic all over the country, for quite a while, and have enormous clout. As an example, where other providers have so far been unsuccessful in getting govt. clearance for certain services in India, it looks like Reliance will not be having that problem.

Reliance is using existing technology customised for India, at the Indian Inst. of Technology Madras. Details here.

You have NO idea the way the demand for bandwidth for both voice and data is growing in India. Want figures? Find them here.

Do you know the proposed cost of deployment of RIL's telecom plan? You pay Rs.3000 initially ($60) and Rs.600 monthly ($12) you get the instrument and the service, but will have to service for a period of 3 years, as part of the Rs.600 will go towards your instrument. Just look at their pricing schemes.

In fact, pricing is one of the reasons why Reliance will succeed. Reason? They chose NOT to use GSM as the initial cost is high, but wanted to help atleast the middle class.

If you still are not convinced, goto Chaoszone, run by cygnusx. He has been keeping track of this for a long time, and has very interesting links on the current scenario and WHY this WILL work.

You are forgetting one very basic point. Yes, India has poverty to handle, but you do not solve it by denying all other technology, atleast that's what your attitude sounds like. There is a significant chunk of the middle class for whom the rates that reliance offers is EASILY affordable, and that comes to a significant portion of the population of a billion.

Read this interview with Mukesh Ambani. Forget quality, they'll see gold through quantity. And that is exactly what Reliance is banking on.

And as a geek, I sure as hell hope they do, am looking forward to getting one of their J2ME enabled thingys ;-)

Re:waste of money?

[silverbolt]

Ok, I am way tired of this constant crap of "but they don't have healthcare, they don't have food, blah blah....", everytime some developing country tries to make a technological advance. Do you live in some kind of utopia ? Does every citizen have to have all their basic and not-so-basic needs fulfilled before their country can think of spending money in defence or technology ? WTF ?

Science always advances. Technology makes inroads. The aim is to make lives easier for *most* people, not *all* people. Even the US has not been able to ensure that each of its citizens have their basic needs met, or that the fruits of technology have reached all.

So the next time you hear a story about India or Jordan or Brazil or any other developing country trying to improve the life of its citizens, try to be understanding, if not a cheerleader. And quit your high-horse!

Re:Possible?

[atlantis_tin]

Somehow, I doubt such a plan would succeed. Is such a low tariff even possible, much less for this kind of expensive service?

Reliance is a fairly old but very successful company. I have been following news about them for several years and have never seen them do anything that is both big and naïve. While I cannot say that people come first for them, surely business and money do.

These are at least some of the reasons why we should expect costs of telecom services to be low in India:

Technology - The infrastructure was built practically from scratch in the last 6-7 years. Even regular phone service coverage was around 4-5%. As opposed to the US, which has been building its infrastructure over much a longer period - laying copper and then fiber. India is starting with fiber for which the cost-per-bit is very low. IIRC, Reliance built its fiber optic network in the last 3-4 years.

Labor costs - One of the biggest costs in building infrastructure is labor. But labor is very cheap in India. I expect labor wages to be around USD30 per month.

Competition - There is a lot of competition, the other major players are Bharati, TATA, and the government (yes, the government is in this too). So, including Reliance that makes it at least four major competitors. There are some small companies (BPL, Birla, Satyam, etc. - don't know what happened to Worldtel) too but so far they have not had any major impact.

And all this is the exact opposite of what you see in the US. So...

They're progressive, we have telephone sanitizers

[Morgaine]

Easy, they've got their foot on the accelerator of new technology, new ideas, new rules, and new freedoms.

In contrast, we've got our foot on the brake of new constraints like "Intellectual Property", new "growth" areas like patents on everything, and new laws to ensure that old business doesn't succumb to the new.

To which continent do you think the label of "progressive" applies best?

The only reason we're still doing as well as we are here in the "first" world is because we have a large head of steam and massive resources from past years, and a world bank that knows on which side its toast is buttered. If everyone were to start afresh right now, our only growth industry would be in lawyers and related non-producers of wealth. It's kind of depressing.

WiLL is not mobile

[cdmafoa]

"Ambani said eventually, the wireless in local loop (WLL) facility would connect all the 6,40,000 villages..."

This system is WiLL which means no handoffs. This type of system is great for replacing existing (or non-existant) land line infrastructures to single points (like homes). This reduces the complexity of the system and therfore the cost of installation and upkeep. However, this system doesn't work if the user is moving around, so it's no substitue for a true cellular system.

Technology helps

[Quixote]

I'm sure there are a lot of readers here who'll say "but what about education/poverty/healthcare/yadayada", as always. I think it is time you guys changed your views on this. I know, a cellphone won't cure any illnesses (may even cause some, but thats besides the point..), but it can help in reducing poverty. Here are a couple of examples:

• In some southern Indian states, fishermen have found a great use of cellphones. When they go out to sea for fishing, on the way back they call at all of the local harbors within their range, and find the best price for their catch! Some fishermen have found that their cellphone paid for itself in just a couple of weeks.
• Farmers can keep in touch with their nearby mandis (wholesale markets), and strike deals which will maximise their gain from their harvest (i.e., pick the right time, sell their produce in advance, checkout prices at all nearby places and take their produce to the one with the highest prices, etc.).

These are but 2 examples; I'm sure if someone did a study, you'd find 100s more.

I liken this new technology to what happens when a man-made wreck lands at the bottom of the sea. Nature quickly finds ways to use the wreck to its advantage: new coral colonies bloom, fishes use it as their hideout, etc. Similarly, the people of India will quickly adapt and find ways to leverage this new technology in ways that we, here in the west, can't even imagine. I say more power to them!

Re:waste of money?

[cygnusx]

How the open standard, high-volume GSM is more expensive than the proprietary, royalty-ridden, lower-volume CDMA?

For GPRS to work, spectrum has to be dedicated to data and voice separately. Existing GSM providers need to license more spectrum (this costs big money), have to upgrade their equipment and convince users to change handsets to support 2.5G ("GPRS"). Considering that they are all in the red, it ain't going to be easy. CDMA providers can provide voice+data over the same spectrum.

Because 3G deployments in Europe and Japan so far have been less than successful.

Because CDMA 2000 1X is coming with a massive second mover advantage, at a time when people need higher data rates from their mobile, and the GSM folk can't given them that quickly, the operative word being 'quickly'.

I agree a GSM-based high-speed standard would have been better. But the only way high-speed GSM would have taken off in India was if someone built a W-CDMA (which is the air interface for high speed GSM) network from scratch, and given European and Japanese experience with W-CDMA 'til now, I'd excuse any business for being slightly scared about this :).

In Brasil people are complaining every day that government has chosen TDMA and CDMA over the cheaper, standard GSM.

Huh? TDMA is the air interface for vanilla GSM. High speed GSM uses W-CDMA as the air interface because TDMA is so damn inefficient. Anyway, what business does the government have mandating technology? (Europe did this, mind you :-p) All they should sell is spectrum!

Re:Too bad you can't see beyond your own nose...

[metlin]

Every country has a black mark. How do you justify American action in Iraq? Perhaps they have a point, perhaps they do not.

How about Pakistan, which sponsors terrorist activities, is ruled by a military dictator and whose intelligence agency ISI is *confirmed* to have ties with the underworld in India?

India has a rocket scientist for a president, a *democratically elected* president, while being surrounded by a Military Dictatorship (ruling a fundamentalist country) on one side and a Communist Dictatorship on the other.

India is a developing nation, and has it's own set of problems in healthcare and basic utilities, I do agree. But technology IS the ONLY way out of this mess. Only when you educate people about the ill effects of bad environments, AIDS and the like will there be progress. People NEED to know.

Yes, we have sectarian violence. Try having a billion people of disparate cultural differences, with hundreds of languages, who have been exploited by colonialism for 400 years. You will then know.

Keeping them in the dark only worsens the situation. People *need* to be taught that this would not help in the long run. People need to be taught tolerance.

Technology has done a wealth of good for us, with revolutions in the agro sector, IT industry and now communication industry.

More the money the industries make, more the revenue the govt. earns, and the society as a whole benefits. And you have a booming economy, with a growing middle class which is tech savvy.

Please tell me what is wrong with this. I fail to see how something as beneficial as technology is going to do ill to a society.

Unforunately, people like "metlin" forget that their country needs to be brought up from 3rd world status and that will not happen by giving people cell-phones.

Incorrect reference, third world refers to Non-Aligned Nations, and has nothing to do with economic development. Developing nations would be an appropriate usage. Technology is not the end, it is the means to solving world's problems. If you think otherwise, you're a fool.

Most of the achievements in the Western world have come from hardwork and a sincere desire to change. Technological advances were created with the evolution of society not by handing them technology.

Huh? What the hell did you just blabber? Oh so wait, we want to have technology so that we can sit and play Quake all day? Or wait, technology happens on its own without us having to work or just loitering around or what?

What an absurd statement. Technology arms people. Technology gives people the power to do things that they thought impossible, and improves their standard of living. It does not happen overnite, and it does not happen to everybody. But it does happen, it is a process and it will take time.

But that does not mean that its all useless. This is one of the MOST STUPID comments I've EVER read on /.

Duh.