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Professors vs. WiFi
murky.waters writes "The New York Times (free registration, profiling) has an article about the opposing views of teacher's demanding attention and students seeking distraction; the current trend toward wireless Internet access in the classroom has students surfing the web and checking their email from the backrow, while instructors are climbing up the ladder... to disconnect the Access Point." Makarand writes "University Wi-Fi networks are heavily impacting student campus life according to this
article on NewsObserver.com.
In addition to allowing them to keep working while not in their computer labs, the wireless networks allow them to keep in touch with their family, better organize time, complete coursework in shorter periods of time, collaborate
with other students and bring computing power into classrooms not available before."
We have the same problem where work, people who sit in meetings and work their email, pounding away with their thumbs and not paying attention. Many of these people don't really contribute to the meetings anyway, so it's not that great a problem.
As for universities, grades are the answer. My guess is that these students want to work chat and email in class, yet pull an easy "A" at the end of the semester. When they get a "C", or fail a class, perhaps they will make the right decision. If not, it's evolution in action.
Call me old-fashioned, but I wish for the days when you had a chance of having someone's complete attention. These days of cellphones, PDAs and laptops mean that distractions are commonplace.
Sure, many classes are very boring and students will lose interest regardless of what toy is in front of them, but I think professors have a right to limit distactions.
SCO, Microsoft, P2P, what's your hot button?
If the class is interesting then the students will stay on task, not check their email and etc. At the university I attend they have wireless access in a number of buildings with plans to add it to others as well as outdoors in the major gathering areas. I find it helps out with class because you can download the class notes and follow along or look up a website the prof is talking about in his lecture.
On a funny side note one guy in one of my classes WAS looking up pr0n while in class, all the people behind him were wide-eyed looking at it... that's how he got busted.
There are only 10 kinds of people in this world... those who understand binary and those who don't
...it is that new technologies find OPPOSITION at Universities so often. It really makes you think.
of bashing the technology and blaming it for them being terrible and boring with their lectures they'd be fine.
Look, technology is good, WiFi is good, a smart teacher would use WiFi and the fact that all the students have laptops and AIM to their advantage, to get the students communicating better with each other through AIM, and to talk about the class.
The teacher could even bring his own laptop, add their AIM screen names to his AIM account, and talk to students via AIM.
This is college not highschool, a teacher cannot try to blame the students for lack of attention, students pay you with THEIR money so that you can get their attention, these people want to learn and pay to learn, if you arent doing a good job and they think your lecture is a complete waste of time they dont have to pay attention.
I've had great teachers give lectures and it doesnt even feel like a lecture, it feels like conversation because the teacher gets people involved, its even entertaining sometimes!
Then we have lectures where teachers read off a peice of paper going down a list of things they must talk about, perhaps some boring as hell subject like computer programmer, and the teacher is from india and cannot speak english properly, some people just should not lecture!!!
In this situation you'd be better off getting your information from the internet than listening to the lecturer guide you step by step on how to write hello world.
Wi Fi is good, schools need to learn to use technology to their advantage.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Another thing I heard many of the professors in college say, when a student or ten were not paying attention, was "Well, some of you arent playing attention, but, its not my $BIGNUM a year you're spending, and I dont have to tell your parents why you failed this class."
We had this problem at the university that I work at as the DBA. Professors were irked at students not paying attention to the class and instead chatting on IM or playing games. The solution that we came up with is a website that a professor can visit on our intranet and select the level of wireless blocking that he/she would like for a given class. The different levels are things like Web Access Only, Web & Email, Email Only, All, and None (the default of course is all access is allowed unless otherwise specified). The results are then stored in our central database. The second part of the program is a linux box that runs some perl code every minute out of cron. It checks to see if there are any blocks issued for any of the classes that are starting on this minute. If there are, it pulls out a list of all students that are enrolled in the given class from the database and then dynamicly creates a snort rule file which just blasts out TCP resets to the local user effectivly blocking them. This solution has worked well for us with of course the exception of students being angry. I personally agree with the professors on this one simply because if you are in one of their classes and you bother to show up, your on their time at that point. If you don't want to pay attention then simply don't go. Just an opinion :)
Unlike highschool, people pay to go to college. Its not logical to pay for something you dont REALLY want.
So if you pay to hear them lecture and they just suck, its not your fault, you paid them, they just suck. Highschool is different, you dont really want to be there, you are just stuck there.
Professors need to earn their salaries, at my school the students actually EVALUATE the teachers, teachers who cannot give good lectures recieve poor ratings.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Sigh, the times we live in.
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
Kids surfing porn/slashdot/etc during class is not integral to the education process.
The teacher could even bring his own laptop, add their AIM screen names to his AIM account, and talk to students via AIM
Um, they're all in the same room, why on earth would that be of any use to anyone? They don't need their computer with them at all times to add someone to their AIM list unless they are incapable of writing it down on a piece of paper (a distinct possibility in our age of techno-worship).
This is college not highschool, a teacher cannot try to blame the students for lack of attention, students pay you with THEIR money so that you can get their attention, these people want to learn and pay to learn, if you arent doing a good job and they think your lecture is a complete waste of time they dont have to pay attention.
Have you been to college? I knew many students who felt that since they were paying to attend, they should be guaranteed passing grades and shouldn't have to be bothered with things like homework or tests or showing up. My dad taught college for 30+ years and in the last 10 I can't count the number of parents who had the same attitude. "We're paying your salary, you have to give him a passing grade even if he never came to class."
this is getting old and so are you
blog
I'm going to have to side with the professors on this one. I recall an earlier post that it's the professor's fault for not providing an entertaining enough lecture. I'm sorry, but I would never hire a person that I knew felt that way.
Life is not a constant stream of entertainment. The most rewarding things in life come from blood, sweat and tears and an education is one of them. While I think you should enjoy your chosen field of study, I don't think is has to compete on the same level as the latest Eminem video or an email of how your friend saw this really hot chick at Wal-Mart.
Besides, I don't even think it's possible to make all courses entertaining to all. Do you as, say a programmer, expect to really get into Classic Greek Literature 540 as a form of entertainment?
Does Sesame Street have a university?
As a former student, soon to be teaching, I'm torn on this one. The difference between my best and my worst classes has often been student engagement. When half the class is zoning out, I find it that much harder to be interested in the material. When everyone around me is bright-eyed and bushy-tailed (whether it be because the material is interesting, or because they know their performance depends on their absorbing the material), the attitude is contagious. In-class teaching is valuable, and very often provides more than any textbook. And for god's sake, you didn't pay $n,000 dollars to get the same education you could get from a video-correspondance course.
I wish more professors moved from dry lecturing to a slightly more socratic class style. In the absence of that, they might at least making the material important enough that you can't afford to miss it (ie, not a re-hash of the textbook chapter.) At very least, it's not unreasonable to make attendance non-mandatory and demand that the people who don't want to be there go check their email somewhere else.
What a stupid idea, a teacher using IM *in class.* They're in the same room, they should talk! I can concoct scenarios in which that's not stupid but they almost never happen in real life.
You really aren't asking professors to be interesting, you are asking them to be entertaining, more entertaining than what students can find on a 'net connection. That almost never happens and isn't really a plausible goal anyway.
Even if the students are paying for school themselves, they're not buying the right to be rude, to the teacher or to their fellow students. Students can't properly judge whether a lecture is a waste of their time while it's going on, only when the course is over or maybe after their next assignment.
There are certainly many people who do not teach well, especially in a "sage on the stage" setting, and schools could use less of that format but that's no excuse for being so disrespectful and a distraction to your classmates.
Why the hell do we need professors then? If they are paid just to show up and force you to look at them, what exactly is it that they do if they dont give good lectures?
Hard work is one thing, but we are PAYING them, they arent free, they arent giving up anything here, we pay them to do what we want them to do, and thats give an exciting lecture.
I dont think you'll find alot of college students who agree with your opinion that lectures should be boring and dull, people want their moneys worth.
All courses can be entertaining to the majority of the people if the courses are interactive and engaging.
You want to make a boring course like C programming fun? Find someone who can speak REALLY well, not someone from india with an accent.
Find someone who can communicate the basics of programming but in a unique way, complete with jokes, and very detailed explainations including visual.
The good lectures usually arent 100 percent focused strictly on that topic, they drift off alittle bit but the lecturer makes sure to get the point across, students get to talk and ask questions, talk about personal things, so that it feels more like group discussion instead of just blah blah blah blah where students just sit and listen.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
So teachers get paid even if they suck and students get punished when teachers suck?
What responsibility does a professor have besides showing up if this is the case?
They show up and they get paid, you show up and you have to follow strict guidelines on how to pay attention and act interested. Oh and you have to pay them for it.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
From my experience there are two types of students. (1) Those who want a degree and (2) those who want an education.
Usually, those who want an education are those who are paying attention in class.
Colleges and universities don't owe you an education. They owe you access to information in a format optimal for learning. You still must actually do something to get it.
Virtually all of the info you'd learn in university is available in libraries and on the internet. So why then do companies still prefer people with little pieces of paper? Because actions speak louder than words. Any basement-dwelling sociopathic geek can SAY they could learn how to calculate the Big O of various fibonnacci algorithms, but the paper proves that this person actually did learn what he was asked to learn. And that demonstrates that he could learn virtually anything else you ask him do. He's already demonstrated that he's a do-er, a go-getter. He's the one who actually participated in classes and made the effort to really understand the course material.
And that doesn't just mean paying attention in class - that means actually putting in effort outside of the classroom.
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
As mentioned previously, it's college, not high school. If they don't want to pay attention, they don't have to as long as they accept responsibility for their actions and aren't interfering with the class. It's on them to pass the class and/or participate as required.
What about the "cattle call" classes that everyone has to take and even the instructor doesn't want to be there? My son's intro to C++ class was like that and he surfed the web while in that class. And did just fine in it. When my daughter had taken the same class the year before, she had made similar comments about the class. The instructor was bored and wanted to be teaching more advanced Unix courses but had to teach the intro course. She was not helpful to the students that tried to get her help. My daughter also did fine in the class, but she, like her brother had already taken an introductory C++ programming course in high school.
One of my instructors teaches his MIS course from Powerpoint slides that he just reads. Although capable of truly inspired teaching when he wanted to, he usually didn't (at least at the undergrad level. Ask me next year when I have to take him again post grad). He made attendance part of his grading above and beyond the university's policy of no more than 4 missed classes. Many times I sat in the back of his class and read my latest copy of Linux Journal or articles on my Palm. All of his class material was available on Blackboard before class. After 20+ years, I think he's bored too. Most of the class seemed to be only interested in achieving the minimum necessary to pass the course. Uninspired teaching, uninspired class, rote reading of slides; as they say, "Where's my motivation"?
The better professors won't have to worry. They'll hold the students attention and not worry about those that insist on not paying attention. Most of those students that don't pay attention are either tourists anyway or being held back by uninspired curriculum or professors. If TAs are teaching and can't hold the class, they shouldn't be teaching. That's not what I've been paying for. From the article it appears to be a number of issues are involved (as usual). WiFi is still new enough on campus that both faculty and students are still working out the roles of themselves and the technology. The implementation of any new technology is a bumpy road. I think that what this article really highlights.
You must be the change you wish to see in the world - Ghandi
When the professeur was interesting then I listened.
So while sleeping you multi-tasking brain was able to wake you up when the prof got interesting?
wtg.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
BZZZZZZTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!
WRONG!!!!
Care to try again? The classroom environment requires the participation of BOTH the instuctor and the student. Additionally, the onus to aggressively pursue a quality learning envrionment lies more with the student. The best teacher in the world can't teach a student who actively resists, but a dedicated student can (and often WILL) suceed in learning a great deal despite instructors of a lower caliber. This is exemplefied in Mark Twain's famous quote: "I never let schooling interfere with my education."
---
Fighting ignorance and apathy since 1977
Glenn Reynolds, author of the popular InstaPundit blog and a professor of law at the U. of TN offers this observation "I also tend to wander around the room a lot
Basically the way I read it, is if a professor is engaged in teaching his/her class, then he/she isn't going to have a problem keeping the students engaged as well.
--- have you healed your church website?
This is college. The student is paying for it. If he wants to fuck off and browse the web instead of listening to lectures and taking notes, fine. As long as he's not distracting other students, let him waste his money. He'll only have to pay again to retake the class he failed.
..There's a-dooin's a-transpirin'
I have to say that rumours of our rage and angst are greatly exaggerated. I'd like to see more of my students with Wi-Fi equipped computers attending classes and using their equipment. I wish that more of our classrooms were equipped with computers and projectors for the professors, since I've integrated technology into my courses. It's wonderful when students can download files as you refer to them, bookmark websites you recommend during class or check out additional resources to bring more fuel to their comments in discussion.
My rules are few: Sound alerts must be turned off during class (especially those annoying IM moo noises) and Wi-Fi network access must be disabled during tests and examinations (I don't want my students surfing the net for answers when they should be writing). If you can abide by those rules (and the general campus rules for Wi-Fi access) you're welcome to compute during my class!
ancarett, historian and zombie gamer
People who aren't going to pay attention, will not do so even without computers to entertain them. They might just stare off into space with no alternatives but taking away computers doesn't mean they are paying attention.
Being in class and doing anything besides participating in class in an appropriate manner is rude to the teacher and distracting your fellow students. The worst are people who come to class and then sleep. If you aren't interested, don't come. Which bring's me to my next point...
Mandatory attendance in a college class is (in general) stupid. There are fairly few non-lab courses where attendance actually matters. If someone prefers to get their material out of a book, let them. If being in class is important to passing the class, the students will figure that out. Teachers should think of class attendance as feedback on the difficulty of the material and the quality of the lecturing.
Conversely, if you (or your parents) are paying for a college education and you do not make every effort to get as much out of it as possible you are an idiot.
Yes, surfing the net is often more interesting than a lecture, but even a boring lecture often has useful information. Even the worst lectures (and I've had some very bad ones) usually contain something worth knowing. You are going to be dealing with boring meetings, boring tasks, and boring people for the rest of your career. You might as well learn how to get the most out of them.
The teacher's job is not to entertain you, it is to teach you. Effective teaching often correlates with being interesting to listen to but you can learn without being entertained.
Finally, don't be so arrogant and assume you know what is important about a subject better than the teacher. There is usually a reason the teacher is lecturing on the material they choose. They aren't doing it just to annoy you.
Why the hell would I demand a students attention?
It's the student who has voluntarily undertaken to pay huge gobs of money and invest huge gobs of their time to attend college.It was the student who voluntarily chose to sign up for my class. It was the student who chose to *show up* for class. I didn't leap out of my office, drive halfway across the country ( or the world), hold a gun to their head and insist they take my class.Hell, once they've signed up I don't even insist they attend.
This isn't high school I think some of you have a hard time wrapping your heads around that one.If you don't wish to participate, stay home.It's that simple.
Hell, you can even get an A in some of my classes without ever attending if the work you hand in deserves it.
What I don't understand is if you would really rather be surfing the web or playing Quake why you don't just stay in your room and do it? Wouldn't we both be more comfortable that way?
KFG
Give the kids a class-topic wiki/blog and let the computers become a tool for student-student, student-grad.assistant, and student-prof communication. The prof could bring a grad.assistant to each class and have him/her answer questions that students have about the lecture in near-realtime as they appear on the wiki/blog. Give shy students a way to ask questions. Bonus points for students that answer each other's questions before the grad.assistant.
The profs are lagging behind the students. The students have rushed forward in a somewhat haphazzard fashion, but think of it as a case of spitballs and doodles. One doesn't end spitballs by taking away all paper or doodles by taking away all writing impliments. The best thing to do is to give the students something better to do with the tools. Some virtues that will draw their attention better than the available vices.
"DRM is a mandatory buggy whip in every car." MadAhab (40080)