AFL-CIO Proposed Reforms for the H1B Program

Alien54 writes "[I first saw this link over on RFN]. The AFL-CIO has announced a series of proposed reforms for the H1B Program. The proposal is very thorough, and covers eight different problem areas of the H1B laws."

Comments

The sooner the better

[oldstrat]

I currently work for a VERY large, VERY well known, almost universally hated telecommunications company, which for obvious reason I cannot name.

The sooner H1B gets put under control the better, not only is it preventing upward movement within the company, increasing domestic unemployment, and brain drain from developing countries... It hurts development efforts within the company.
In a project ended several months ago, only 2 of the 30 plus people involved spoke english as a native language, the non english speakers, spoke 7 different languages, with only english in common.

The two who spoke english were the process manager, and an end user.

My estimation is that a project that should have taken 3 months instead took 3 years (and produced a product that should have been retiring at the time it was introduced).

The bottom line should not be in dollars, it should be in results.

Re:I might be ...

[Malicious]

Canadian companies make a lot of money, supporting Compaq, IBM, and AOL products.

Canadian Dollar=Cheap
Out of work Canadian Technicians=Plentiful

It's good business

Re:Prevailing Wage?

[Glock27]

Doesn't it seem like letting the employer and employee work out how much money the job will pay is a much better system than having some bureaucracy decide what the prevailing wage is and binding everyone to that? Or is there something about being born outside the borders of the United States that makes wage negotiations inherently evil?

What it means is that, in a very narrow range of professions, you get to compete with hundreds of thousands of people who'd be THRILLED to be making $20,000 a year in their homeland.

There was never any meaningful shortage of labor if the employer was willing to pay enough. Its called "supply and demand". And guess what, if tech jobs paid more, more graduates would go into tech jobs! What a concept. The entire point of H1-B visas is cheaper labor. Funny how CEO positions are never filled with H1-B folk though...

I have to say its disgusting that the AFL/CIO is the one doing the whistleblowing rather than, oh, say, the current executive branch! Strange bedfellows indeed...

We need to increase immigration

[NDPTAL85]

Lest we want to happen to us what is now happening to Japan and Europe. Due to lowered levels of immigration those regions are experiencing an aging of the population. This busts the social security systems. With less people paying in, less money can be sent out.

We need more people. Not less. Immigrants add to the economy. They add workers, and consumers. What they bring to the economy more than outweighs what they take out via usage of social services.

Same with programmers

[Billly Gates]

Programmers too. I had to leave the tech field when I lived in New York because all of the finaincal companies(yes the ones who hold the majority of the worlds money) are outsourcing all of the programming jobs to India and Indonesia for 7/hr! I guess the CEO's do not have enough money.

I was even willing to work for 7/hr like the Indians because I became so desperate and was ready to work at a McDonalds or retail store. I guess I was still viewed as too expensive or not dispensable enough. I ened up moving back in with my parents, selling all of most of my stuff in my apartment, lossing my girlfriend because she wanted a man with money, and working at a staples for 7/hr.

Infact go read this article here on how sun is under investigation for firing half of its staff and replacing them with Indians. Its disgusting and this really pisses me off! What the f*ck did we do to deserve to be treated like this? I advise most workers to work for a small bussiness who actually care about there workers. Big companies just want to rape us. I am back in tech working for a small consulting company outside of the big cities. I advise those who are looking for work in New York, Silcon Valley, or San Fransico to leave and move to a place like Phoenix, Las Vegas or Ohama where small bussinesses are rampant and rents are low.

The H1B program is fundamentally flawed

[MalleusEBHC]

I think the whole idea of the H1B should be rethought seriously. I guess some people would say we need them to cover a shortage of workers, but especially considering our economic times right now we don't need 200 thousand of these people taking jobs from Americans. The H1B program should be scrapped to almost nothing. Make a provision allowing for a temporary allowance of a limited number of H1B's when unemployment is at a certain low level, but other than that cut them all off. You want to come to America? That's fine, do it like all the other people who immigrate, get green cards, etc. Don't do it by coming over, taking an American's job for a few years, then taking that money back to your homeland when your 3 or 6 years are up.

Sweet

[Pinball Wizard]

Its nice of the AFL-CIO to take a stand for us largely non-unionized geeks. It used to be the prevailing wisdom was, the manufacturing jobs would be replaced by computer jobs, so if you lost your job at GM, with some retraining you could work in IT. Perhaps thats why they are taking up this issue?

Its too bad there isn't the level of unionization in the IT industry as there is in other trades and professions. Only in a booming economy do you(individually) have any real bargaining power with big corporations. In today's market, a widespread union would be a big help. The practice of hiring cheap foreign labor and shipping jobs overseas is quite damaging to our social fabric, and I would think would dissuade those who are considering entering the field. A union could make sure corporations are hiring qualified individuals within the community before looking outside for help.

There *ISN'T* native talent out there right now!

[InterruptDescriptorT]

People complaining about the H1-B quota being so high mention that in today's badly bruised IT economy, so many American IT professionals are out of jobs, so the H1-B program should be scaled back to give these people jobs.

Bullshit.

I'm a Canadian on an H1-B visa and I've conducted recent interviews for software developer-style positions. The US talent is embarrassingly bad. I saw no less than five candidates who could not write a simple C routine to traverse a linked list. And this was one of the simpler questions.

This is why they can't find work, not because of foreign competition.

I'm tired of poorly-qualified or schooled native IT people complain that they ought to get the job because they're citizens or permanent residents. It doesn't work like that! If you don't know how to code, or explain the difference between an abstract base class and a regular class, then you don't deserve the job.

Stop blaming H1-B candidates and start brushing up on your skills, because it's your lack thereof holding you back.

Re:I might be ...

[Tackhead]

> My point is that, although Indian labor may be cheaper on an hourly basis, how many more man-hours does it take to get the job done? By the time I left, the amount of money saved through overseas development was little to none. All that had been accomplished was a 50% staff attrition through layoffs or people, like myself, who saw the impending doom and jumped ship before the axe fell.

Economic Darwinism in action. It's what happens whenever a company abandons the merit principle in hiring.

If we had easier permanent immigration ("green card"), employers wouldn't need the H-1B as a stepping-stone to being able to bring a talented worker in on a permanent basis.

Also, if we didn't have the H-1B stepping-stone mentality, employers wouldn't put up with the hassles. They'd hire the best person - American or otherwise.

Likewise, wage devaluation wouldn't be a factor, as foreigners would be able to demand wages comparable to Americans, because any employer that failed to pay real market wages would soon find itself unable to hire.

Americans win. Foreigners win. Companies win. Pity that free labor markets will never happen, but hey, it's nice to dream.

Re:BINGO!

[GreyPoopon]

But that's not what we're doing. Instead, we're acting in the next-quarter interests of specific companies, and that's a Bad Thing(tm) for everyone concerned.

Absolutely agreed. And what the greedy companies who follow this practice don't seem to realize is that they are effectively taking money out of the hands of the very people who would be buying their products. Look at the current trade deficit for the United States. The vast majority of consumers of US products live in ... the US. If you stop handing them the money they need to buy your products, you'll eventually start losing money. I'm not sure how long that process takes, but it's virtually guaranteed happen.

Re:Xenophobia disguised as economics.

[Rimbo]

In theory, rdean400, what you say is dead on. In practice, however, most of the H1B's I know are looking to use it as a stepping-stone to permanent citizenship -- 6 years is plenty of time to find a spouse, for example.

For most immigrants, the hardest part about getting to the United States is just simply getting to the United States. The lottery is packed -- it takes DECADES for people to get over here on a regular immigrant visa. The H1B is a fast way to get your feet on American soil, and once here, hopefully get established enough to be able to stay through other means.

H1B's do not WANT to go back, see. If they did, they wouldn't come here in the first place.

So you're right about the theory of H1B visas, but the reality is different. The reality is that the H1B is a "gateway visa" to finding permanent resident -- or better, citizenship -- status.