Slashdot Mirror
Cleveland Public Library Readies E-book Downloads
rtphokie writes "C|Net is reporting that the Cleveland Public Library is making ebooks available. Sounds like the 1000 books in the system initially will feature more than just public domain titles including 'the latest from authors such as Michael Crichton, Clive Barker and Joyce Carol Oates.'" The article also mentions that "only a limited number of each eBook will be available, and after a preset number of days, the eBook will lock out the current reader so another patron can check it out." A good time to re-read The Right to Read.
Mom: Stop messing around on that thing. Read a book for once.
Son: I am reading a book.
Mom: Keep lying like that and you're grounded.
Ok first off, yah to Cleavland for at least trying this idea.
But major "why are you pulling this con?" to Overdrive for trying to convince ANYBODY that client side, err, well, heh, anything, is safe at all.
Listen, it has already been proven that without trusted hardware (which is not going to come along until consumers start trusting the companies) that NO DRM solution is secure. No matter what. Worst case, things have to be brute forced, but since the unencrypted data passed through the clients computer somewheres along the line, heck, there is your weak point right there.
Now if somebody figured a way to encase the decryption key in some sort of VGA dongle so the actual decrypted data was only ever sent over the VGA wire, but even then, doing it cheap and such, heh. No go.
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
"...after a preset number of days, the eBook will lock out the current reader so another patron can check it out"
How are libraries going to cope with the loss of 50 cent overdue fees?
"...and after a preset number of days, the eBook will lock out the current reader so another patron can check it out."
in conjunction with
"...including the ability to download books onto PCs and PDAs and create a portable eBook that can be read even when patrons are offline."
I'm assuming that the portable eBook created will be encoded with a 'lock' date.
I think it will work on a modest scale. It will be broken and pirated quickly.
But frankly, there's nothing like holding and reading a real book by the bedside or on the go.
ePaper, where are you ?
The article also mentions that "only a limited number of each eBook will be available, and after a preset number of days, the eBook will lock out the current reader so another patron can check it out."
That's weird. I've noticed many Web pages that Slashdot links to also have this feature. I click on the link and it tells me too many people are reading the site and that I should come back later. So if Slashdot links to every e-book in the library, they won't need to pay for fancy protection systems.
mogorific carpentry experiments
Trying to make the digital world just like the real world doesn't work. Sure it would be great to check out e-books from the library. And it would be great to rent videos on the net. But in order to make it happen you have to take away freedoms.
You see, the internet is just information passing between computers over the phone lines (or what not). In order to get an ebook to you over the internet, that ebook needs to be copied. You cannot transfer a physical copy of something over the internet. Now, since duplication occurs, this falls under copyright.
But wait--what if we were to use technology to lock out the copy at one end, and only allow one user at a time to access the ebook? And after a period of time, technology locks out the information on the user's side? That would be just like a library correct?
No. Because in order to accomplish that, you need to take away a user's control over the information he possesses. This is taking away a fundamental right. In other words, you can make the digital world like the real world, but you can't make it the same. Sure, you open up a new business model or service. But on the other hand, you take away rights.
And that is exactly what a set-up like this can do. Luckily, in America, rights are protected, not business models.
But you can erode rights. A set-up like this comes along at first. Laws like the DMCA are passed to strengthen it. Hell, the DMCA is enough already. Suddenly renting digital information is possible.
And what if one year then, your college decides that it's cheaper to rent ebooks than have you buy real thing? Maybe they don't even publish the dead tree version anymore. Palladium and the DMCA lock out you out from real control of the information. In fact, the ebook manufacturer--given the ease of EULAs with this distribution system, might even decide to make a little more profit. After all who's to stop him? He makes you agree in the EULA not share the information you rent. Suddenly Stallman's vision of the future has come true. Brave new world, what not.
There seems to be a lot of people missing the argument when it comes to eBooks. Publishers and authors have a right to profit from there work regardless of what it is. In principle this would allow you to handle your digital book just like a paperback: you could read it for a time, share your license with a friend so they could too, and then return the book automatically when your rental time is up. No big deal and automation would most certainly save you from a $200 late charge!
Unfortunately in practice a digital system provides far too much power to the provider. Not only are you limited to how long you have a product but how you can use it. It's digital communism where on paper everyone gets exactly what they need but in practice leaves the power so readily exploitable by a select few.
Question is can we prevent a future like that presented in the linked story? With the growing power base among a select group of individuals/organizations and leaders put in power from the old boys club it'll be an interesting 21st century.
-Matt
--- Need web hosting?
I am an author.
My latest book is coming out later this year in paper form, and will cost money.
The same book (actually bigger, since the publisher has asked to pare down the number of pages) is currently available on the web for free. It will continue to be on the web for free after the paper form is published. In fact, the web version is a significant part of the marketing of the paper version.
I will sell more paper versions by giving away the web version than I would if the web version were not available.
The web version of the book has been available in ever-growing form for about seven years now. I am constantly getting email asking if the paper version is available for sale. Those email inquiries alone (if they were actual sales) would make the book quite profitable.
The web and paper publishing are complementary (and the web version of the book is complimentary).
I suspect the same is true of music sharing on the net -- after all, it seems to be true of music sharing on the radio. Without hearing the music for free on the radio, I expect fewer CDs would be sold.
That's my opinion, and I'm taking it to the bank.
Free book: Science Toys You Can Make
I can't speak to who is the first, but I have checked out an eBook online 8 months ago through my local library: San Diego Public Library.
SDPL uses this company: NetLibrary.
It looks like NetLibrary provides this service for other libraries, but I'm too lazy to look for details.
Now, I like the idea of a library putting out it's books on the internet, and I agree with the lock out date. If you go and check out a physical book, they stamp a return date on the back in the card pocket. Same general idea.
But, there are a few flaws. One, how long will the readable period be? Most libraries I've dealt with have a two week check out period. That's more than enough time to read a decent sized novel (such as one by Crichton, my favorite author, BTW). Will the lockout date correspond to their checkout period? Or will it be shortened in ebook form to prevent piracy?
And while I'm on the subject of piracy, there's a way that all ebooks can fail in their attempts to curb it. Let's say a guy with alot of free time, hard drive space and patience decides to download an ebook. He can't crack the encryption, can't copy the text directly. But what about screenshots? What's to stop him from hitting Alt+PrScr for each page and pasting them into a run of the mill image? He could then create a PDF, HTML or other collection of files and redistribute the book freely.
Is there a charge for these downloads? Then you get into the issue of fair use of something you've purchased. Libraries usually don't charge for check outs (at least not in my experience), and since this ebook model seems to work much the same way, I don't see the need to charge. The only charges I know of for libraries is overdue fees, which are more than reasonable.
And, is there a limit on how many copies can be digitally checked out at one time? If there is, that puts a waiting list into play. If there is a copy limit, then the lock out date makes sense. But let's say a person downloads an ebook and doesn't get the chance to finish it, and there are limited copies. Would they have to wait to download it again? Or could there be a renewal system to extend the lockout a few days to give the reader a chance to finish?
I've never dealt with ebooks, and probably never will (unless they outlaw physical copies). I'm an old school book nut and prefer to have a physical copy when I do my reading (which means I like to pay for my reading enjoyment, thus doing so legally). So, I really don't know if ebook reader programs prevent screenshots or not, or whether there will be charges and such. It seems like a decent idea, but the whole ebook idea is going to be flawed. Just like music (if I can hear it, I can rip/copy it), text will suffer from a similar ailment (if I can see it, I can copy it).
Blog Prophyts - Right On, Man
Law books, those rows of reporters the TV lawyers always have in the background, are still a favorite for many, especially the older lawyers. But the convenience and power of electronic versions -- corrections and hyperlinks and potability and so on -- are winning out, even those the reading experience is inferior. It's pretty hard to juggle 20 of those big books.
The discomfort of the reading is getting better fast. Look at the difference in laptops in the last few years. Now there is finally talk of tablet computers that I hope will be more booklike, particularly if you can touch the screen to move things around. These will get sharper and faster and cheaper and battery life will disappear as an issue and so on.
Give it maybe 15 years to get really big, with incremental increases in the interim. Better screens, the biggest factor, are in the works. These active matrix screens haev only been affordable for a few years, and now they're standard. How about a screen with double or triple the resolution? Sure. Also, imagine having any book from any library available in seconds. Personally I'm getting tired of putting in for holds on new books at the local library, then waiting a month or, worse, spending $25 for it.
This is hardly the situation presented in "Right to Read." RMS's tale is about people who actually OWN the books not having the right to lend them to other people. This is a public collection being made available on the internet (and not just a single computer, as in "Right to Read").
I actually think this is a good idea, and if this model persists, then I think we'll all be in good shape. Think about it, in real life, when you borrow a book from your local library, you have to bring it back. This is for the simple reason that other people can read it too. If you don't bring it back, you have to buy a copy for the library to replace it. Of course we don't have the same problem here, but without getting into the debate about who gets more money, the authors or the publishers, books are a commodity that need to be paid for to support the authors who write them.
yes, there will be casesof authors releasing their works into public domain, and these individuals should be hailed for their contributions. And works that already ARE in the public domain should be made available online for free, but consider the ramifications of a newly published book by an autho suddenly made available for download without any restrictions. Anyway you slice it, the author is not going to make as much money as from a sale of the book. I grant you, there will always be people (like myself) who prefer the paper version for casual reading, but I do believe that the creator of a piece of art, literature, music, etc., is entitled to decide whether they should be compensated for possessing their work.
Yes the publishing companies are a bit tyranical in their price fixing, copy protection schemes etc., but just as we look forward to the day when people can download a song off of the internet, paying a fair price for doing so, and compensate the artist directly, I think we should also look forward to the day when the same can be done with books. But to support "full time" artists, there must be a system of compensation.
Simply allowing anyone anywhere to get and keep the book is just not a valid option. Yes, I know, these will be posted all over the net by their first check out. The debate of 2003 will become online book sharing, and the coalition of publishers will get together to crush programs like this. But really, it is a GOOD idea. You have the ability to keep the bhook on your computer for weeks without having to pay for it. If you don't finish reading it, you can just check it out again.
Honestly, I think we should be so lucky to have most major libraries doing this by the end of the decade. This, ladies and gentlemen, expands your rights online; make no mistake about that.
Maybe cause if they're online they're too hard to burn (kinda reminds me of a book I read once...)
The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed (SK)
Looks like a decent system and definitely a boon for libraries. I won't use it, but then, I don't use libraries at all. I like to own stuff.
Really, it's the perfect use for ebooks. Nobody wants to pay for them, because they're inferior to paper books* in so many ways. But the libraries don't want to make money, they just want to let people read things for free. This system makes that possible at a lower price for the libraries, and publishers can feel good about themselves by giving the e-version away to libraries if they want to.
It won't take off, though, until the libraries come up with a cheap, incredibly durable ebook reader that they can lend out with the books. This will serve as a stopgap until the time when (and if) most households have a reader of some sort.
(Remember when video rental places rented VCRs?)
It's Slashdot's evil twin... SlashNOT
"only a limited number of each eBook will be available, and after a preset number of days, the eBook will lock out the current reader so another patron can check it out."
That must be one of the most idiotic things I have ever hear in my life. The whole point of a library is to provide books for people to read - not restrict access to them. They have multiple (physical) copies (which cost money) so that more than one person can read a book at the same time. The only reason that a physical copy is not purchased for every person who uses the library is due to cost - it would obviously not be feasible for the library. Now an electronic alternative is available that could service every reader simultaneously and what do they do? Cripple it.
Yet another classic example of a perfect use of technology being crippled in the name of greed.
I suppose I better start working on my auto-book-renew script.
But frankly, there's nothing like holding and reading a real book by the bedside or on the go.
...This is what I always used to say...
I love books. I started reading at 2. I worked at an independent bookstore for three years in high school. Then at a library in college. I love books.
Why would anyone ever want to read an ebook? Paper is so much nicer.
Then I tried reading an ebook on my Clie. At bedtime. I've got to say -- reading a book on a small bright handheld, no need for a reading lamp, being able to put it down and nod off... WOW. Reading in bed has never been so nice!
Moral of the story: Don't knock it 'till you try it.
I would have to say that explosives are the most abused technology in all of history.
I am not sure this is the entire story. Music is better on CD. In some cases, quite a bit better. So the experience is similar, but not quite the same. This difference can be enough to warrant a purchase.
There is more to the experience though. The packaging of the CD, cover art, liner notes and little freebies seem to make quite a difference to a lot of people many of whom also would not care about the sonic quality differences between CD and mp3 / ogg.
There is also the purchase process. Going somewhere or doing something to get a copy of a recording adds something to the value of that recording. --A tangible thing. You get something real to represent your investment in the music. You also get some sense of support for the artist in question. Yeah, the current system is broken, but it does not have to be.
Maybe you go with friends and have a coffee or catch a movie or some live music. You also get a memory that would not come from a download.
Live music is also quite a different experience. You could easily consider recorded music a promo for the real thing. Live performances have lots of energy. Many people are there sharing their reaction to the performance. You gain an understanding of the group that can add a lot to your perception of the music.
Downloads do not tell the whole story just as e-books don't.
Blogging because I can...
If all books go into ebook format, won't it make it that much easier to just "Edit" "Find" phrases and paragraphs in a book, rather than actually reading the entire book? Believe me, the Internet Classics Archive has been a godsend this semester for me, however, I confess that I also didn't read much the material I should have, rather just searched for the phrases I needed to write my thesis. Being a philosophy major, its come to a point where I barely buy books because they're almost useless in book format (just like music not in .mp3 format for me is also useless).
I'm sure to people who do indepth research it'll be a godsend, where people actually read the material but need to find key topics quickly, however, I think it's going to help provoke a world of undereducated undergrads.
"In a Democracy, people get the kind of government they deserve." -Winston Churchill
I bought my grandmother some books for Christmas. All of them are old enough to be out of copyright. One of them didn't have any copyright notice in it at all. Another had this edition copyrighted, and the third had a plain copyright. The third being all of shakespear's works. How can any company put a copyright on public domain material like this? These works were over a hundred years old (books were new).
What we see depends on mainly what we look for. -- John Lubbock Now search for that bug slave!
I read ebooks. I buy ebooks. I pay for them. I only buy unencrypted, public format ebooks. Anyone else can bite me.
--GrouchoMarx
Card-carrying member of the EFF, FSF, and ACLU. Are you?
If what the library is doing holds up in court, it would set a good legal precedent for the legality of some kinds of file sharing...
Repeal the DMCA!
Sound all to good to be true? Just can't be right? Well fret no longer boys and girls and walk on down to your LOCAL LIBRARY.
It's very common to be able to read a book/magazine/newspaper or listen to a COPYRIGHTED music CD, or watch a COPYRIGHTED DVD, or surf the internet on a rather large pipe all for the low cost of NOTHING at your local library.
The previous arguments of "This will never work people will just find a way to circumvent the security" make just as much sense as checking out a book at the library will never work because no one will bring it back. You want to make an illegal copy of a book, then walk to your local library and use their copy machine and whamo you've got a copy of the book, AND you've violated a copyright law, when all you really had to do was check it out and then renew it or check it out again at a later time.
It boggles my mind how many people who have commented seem to have no idea how the library system works. Here let me put it in "Spent Too Much Time In The Dark In Front Of The Computer" terminology. Libraries are publically accessible databases of all the information in the entire world, it's like a leech ftp server where anyone can get one and reep the benifits of it. You never have to pay for anything so long as you follow the rules.
The difference between p2p and the library is a lack of hardcore porn.
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
All of those are copyrightable, presumably also other things as typesetting and whatever, as long as it's the publishers work. If you want an edition free of copyright, you could get the actual text electronically from project Gutenberg or similar.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
You also can't grep an encrypted text. So what's the point. This is not an unencrypted text file.
I think it will only be readable on some protected (not open) client on a protected OS (not Linux). Don't expect to read these books on your Linux handheld until after the DMCA is broken.
The truth shall set you free!
And you thought I was kidding about control of all information?
With this little trick, once people adjust to the idea will give people in power complete control of information.
Sure it will be cracked, but that wont help the common man that isn't capable of doing such a thing. Their entire view of the world, and history will be controlled.
It will take time, but this is the next logical step in the progression.
20 years ago if I told you people would be paying to listen to radio, or that you wouldn't be able to copy your music from your house to use in the car, possibly tossed in jail if you try..you would have laughed. Today the practice is pretty much accepted.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Not that long ago, I worked for a company that builds library automation software. I built a prototype version of our web based catalog searching application that integrated the contents of Project Gutenberg into the system. It gave the user the ability to view books available in Gutenberg online. Included pagination, bookmarking, and searching.
Showed it to the cheif architect on the project and got rave reviews, showed the marketing department, they loved it. Showed the CEO and he proceeded to chew my ass out for wasting my time and his. I showed it (secretly) to a few customers and half loved it, half hated it. But nobody was willing to try it. That's just dumb.
The moral of the story? While many prefer the feel of a book in hand even the smell, some are willing to try other things.