TurboTax Activation Fiasco

kurtinatlanta writes "Though the news broke in September, no one cares about tax return preparation software until January. Apparently Intuit's activation scheme for TurboTax will only allow you to print or file your returns from the computer on which you first installed it. The phrase "one computer" in their license literally means one computer. Moving the software (i.e. disk reformat, buy new computer) requires buying it again. There are all kinds of negative reviews on amazon.com as a result. Is this problem real or overhyped?" There's a more recent story about the flap. The Intuit PR rep is quoted as saying that people can install the software on multiple computers using the same activation code, but I don't think an unworking installation really counts.

Comments

My take

[Em Emalb]

"Is this problem real or overhyped?"

It's real. If I buy something, I damned well better be able to use it/reinstall it if my computer blows up.

Think about it.

Re:My take

[evilpenguin]

This ability to transfer ownership of a DVD, book, CD, or VHS tape is because of the "principle of first sale." This is not a legal right, however, and only exists because it has been technologically impossible to prevent up to now, and because IP vendors were content with the revenue from the first sale.

The technology of perfect IP control is, however, either here now (in the case of software) or on the way (in the case of DVDs, CDs, and movies). It WILL be technologically possible to prevent recording, copying, or subsequent use. If you think you should be able to transfer without copying, then you had better get a bit more politically active. Consider joining/supporting the Electronic Frontier Foundation and write your congressional deleagation in opposition to the DMCA (which is already law) and several other proposed but not-yet-passed pieces of legislation designed to control even your presently legal use of your purchases.

Copyright infringement is, and should be illegal, but the principle of first sale, the right to archive, fair use, and the other consumer "rights" that came only from imprefect control technologies are in grave danger. If you think these should be rights of yours, by thunder, say so!

Re:My take

[joshki]

This ability to transfer ownership of a DVD, book, CD, or VHS tape is because of the "principle of first sale." This is not a legal right, however, and only exists because it has been technologically impossible to prevent up to now, and because IP vendors were content with the revenue from the first sale.

Sorry, wrong answer. Section 109(a) of the Copyright Act of 1976, 17 U.S.C. 109(a)

Do some research before you start spouting about things you don't understand -- the right of first sale is codified in law, and has been affirmed by the supreme court in numerous cases. There may be debate about how it applies to some digital media by some corporations, but that doesn't change the fact that it certainly is a legal right.

Re:My take

[rw2]

Sorry Susano, but I shouldn't have to "slashdot them with complaints" to get good service.

I should be able to shut off the ads in quickbooks.
I shouldn't have to pay $75 for technical service that I never recieved.
I shouldn't have to pay $149 a year for tax tables when the gross margin must be 98%.
I shouldn't have to call and explain to them who I am to reinstall my 1999 tax software
If I have to call them, they should be open 24/7 not just when it's convenient for them.

Just the ads in quickbooks alone are reeediculous. I generate an invoice, intuit wants to sell me a service to check if the customer will pay. I write a check, they want to sell me checks. I quit quickbooks, they want to sell me back-up services.

I shouldn't have to get 200K of my closest /. friends to harass them to get this stuff fixed...

They aren't devoted to customer satisfaction, they are devoted to squeezing the absolute most they can out of their customers. I think just a few google searches will be enough to demonstrate that they have squeezed too hard and will therefore, like they have with me and many others in on this article, lose business due to an almost complete disinterest in customer satisfaction.

Oh, and I've written them about all of these issues. Not even the courtesy of a reply. They couldn't be bothered to lift a pen, much less fix the issue. Customer service indeed.

Read the submission!

[Dynedain]

The Intuit PR rep is quoted as saying that people can install the software on multiple computers using the same activation code - the very thing that the activation process is supposed to prevent - so he is misquoted, misinformed, or lying.

No, you can install on another machine, you just can't print or file your return from that machine. Installation and printing are completely different things last I checked.

Re:Read the submission!

[MeNeXT]

So according to you I can install MS Office on Linux, I just can't run it? Please! as far as I care, if it does not work as advertised it is not installed....

One good review

[SoCalChris]

I bet G. Cooke from Texas would give it a positive review!

TurboTax sucks anyway

[Lxy]

Last year I needed to file a 1040 for the first time. Usually I just go for the 1040EZ, but I had a few items I needed to use the 1040 for. Ok, whatever.

I was looking for a good e-file solution, so I found Turbotax online. For $10 you can file your 1040, no software to install, it's a secure java applet. Cool. I spent a good 45 minutes filling everything out, triple checking my numbers, submitted it, life was good.

Three weeks later, I get an envelope from the IRS.

It seems that Turbotax f#@%ed up my taxable income, and stiffed me $320 on my federal return. The IRS fixed it and sent me a check for the difference, but I was still ticked. I printed off all the info and studied it carefully. All the data I put in was right. I ran the numbers manually, and what do you know, my taxable income was lower, and when I comp[uted the tax table I found the missing $320.

F@#% YOU, TURBOTAX.

Re:TurboTax sucks anyway

[LostCluster]

On the other hand... let's notice that the IRS sent that taxpayer $320 he didn't even realize he was entitled to.

Possible Solution?

[saider]

Here's what I do for nazi software - Run it in a VMWare virtual machine. As far as the program is concerned it is running on the same computer.

The only trick is you need to have VMWare ($300).

Re:Alternative?

[fobbman]

I've been checking out Kiplinger's Tax Cut from my local library for a few years now. Very thorough software, and it only costs me money when I return it late. ;)

Best comment on Amazon regarding the matter

[Eagle7]

I love this comment:

Quality Control?, January 4, 2003
Reviewer: Ex-long time user from Hernando, MS United States
I purchased TurboTax Deluxe for the fourth year in a row this year. When I went to install the program from the CD it turned out to be an AUDIO CD OF MEXICAN MUSIC! Bizarre.
...

Re:Use TaxAct.com

[tibbetts]

Or, pay an actual human being to do your taxes. I've never done it but I understand they know all about the loopholes and stuff.

Amen to that! My wife and her family haven't filled out their own tax forms for many years. I used to laugh at their willingness to throw away Good Money, but after we got married and bought a house, I decided to do a bake-off between using TurboTax myself vs. their long-time wetware tax preparer. The result? TurboTax cost me $70 ($30 fed. + $20/each for two states), took about three hours to go through (and another couple of hours or so to print and proofread) and I got a refund of $x. The tax preparer cost $120, took 40 minutes, and got us a refund of $x + $400 via legit "loopholes" (things like moving costs, higher ed credits, etc.).

If you need to fill out only a 1040EZ form, you definitely don't need TurboTax or a preparer, but if you have dependents or itemize deductions, I highly recommend going to a live person. (And no, IANATP.)

Re:People are dumb....

[evilpenguin]

This is just dead wrong. I sniffed my network during the install. It opens an https session to a server at Intuit. About 30k of data is exchanged (being encrypted 128-bit I don't know what data). I can guarantee that if the reg key is included, they can cripple the next install. If you don't hook the machine to the internet, they don't let you pint or file. Don't make pronouncements out of ignorance.

But if you're audited ...

[Bowfinger]

I don't know. TurboTax is only good for one tax year, so the useage lifetime for the software is as long as it takes me to actually do my taxes, which is only a couple of days, if that.

But what if you get that audit letter from the IRS in two or three years? You may want to reinstall 2002 TurboTax so you can review your records, only to find that it won't work on your most recent PC.

What if you simply need to file an amended return later this year? What if you lost your paper copy of your return and want to print another? What if you have trouble exporting your 2002 data to 2003 TurboTax, or maybe to a competing product without such an obnoxious copy protection mechanism?

There are lots of scenarios where you might need to use this software long after your initial filing. It's too bad Intuit is adopting the same kind of customer-hostile philosophy pioneered by our beloved MPAA & RIAA.

If you multiboot -- beware!

[Whip]

I've been trying to post this "review" to Amazon for a couple of days, but there seems to be something wrong with their comment posting code. So here's MY experience with TurboTax 2002

[amazon posting starts here]
I won't reiterate many of the points made by other reviewers on amazon -- I'll just summarize the reviews as "good software, but the copy protection sucks".

I had the copy protection suck more than most. I dual boot WindowsXP and Linux, using the "GRUB" bootloader (which is currently used now by, among others, RedHat linux), and installing TurboTax 2002 made my entire computer unbootable! The activation code writes some information to the front of the harddrive (before the first partition), which overwrote my bootloader, which was already living there! (This may happen with other bootloaders as well... I've only tested with the one).

And fixing my system so it would boot again (by reinstalling the bootloader) produced a copy of TurboTax that a) thought it wasn't activated, and b) Thought that my productid had already been used "by another computer", so couldn't be re-activated.

Intuit did eventually give me another product ID that worked, after I spent several hours trying to explain the problem to tech support, and rebooting time and time again as the reps had me uninstall, reinstall, install in safe mode, install while standing on my head...

The software itself is OK (Though I still wish it could import from Quicken based on the "class" of the transactions), but I have the strong opinion that installing tax software should not render my computer unbootable!