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TurboTax Activation Fiasco
kurtinatlanta writes "Though the news broke in September, no one cares about tax return preparation software until January. Apparently Intuit's activation scheme for TurboTax will only allow you to print or file your returns from the computer on which you first installed it. The phrase "one computer" in their license literally means one computer. Moving the software (i.e. disk reformat, buy new computer) requires buying it again. There are all kinds of negative reviews on amazon.com as a result. Is this problem real or overhyped?" There's a more recent story about the flap. The Intuit PR rep is quoted as saying that people can install the software on multiple computers using the same activation code, but I don't think an unworking installation really counts.
"Is this problem real or overhyped?"
It's real. If I buy something, I damned well better be able to use it/reinstall it if my computer blows up.
Think about it.
Sent from your iPad.
The Intuit PR rep is quoted as saying that people can install the software on multiple computers using the same activation code - the very thing that the activation process is supposed to prevent - so he is misquoted, misinformed, or lying.
No, you can install on another machine, you just can't print or file your return from that machine. Installation and printing are completely different things last I checked.
I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
The simple solution is to not use TurboTax. TaxAct.com has always worked for me. And it's free.
Or, pay an actual human being to do your taxes. I've never done it but I understand they know all about the loopholes and stuff.
I bet G. Cooke from Texas would give it a positive review!
OK -
I'm finally gonna switch because of this but my big question is, which competing product would be best to go with and why?
TIA
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
Save the hassle and do it online. No install, can do it from anywhere you have browser access.
$ man woman *
-bash:
Then there's always an alternate use for your hand... that's right! Doing taxes manually. On paper. Think of doing taxes as learning a braindead API for interfacing with the goverment.
I rather like it.
Smell of cedar and graphite. A little calculator, a big rule book. Lots of nice little numbers.
Last year I needed to file a 1040 for the first time. Usually I just go for the 1040EZ, but I had a few items I needed to use the 1040 for. Ok, whatever.
I was looking for a good e-file solution, so I found Turbotax online. For $10 you can file your 1040, no software to install, it's a secure java applet. Cool. I spent a good 45 minutes filling everything out, triple checking my numbers, submitted it, life was good.
Three weeks later, I get an envelope from the IRS.
It seems that Turbotax f#@%ed up my taxable income, and stiffed me $320 on my federal return. The IRS fixed it and sent me a check for the difference, but I was still ticked. I printed off all the info and studied it carefully. All the data I put in was right. I ran the numbers manually, and what do you know, my taxable income was lower, and when I comp[uted the tax table I found the missing $320.
F@#% YOU, TURBOTAX.
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
Here's what I do for nazi software - Run it in a VMWare virtual machine. As far as the program is concerned it is running on the same computer.
The only trick is you need to have VMWare ($300).
Remember, You are unique...just like everyone else.
It was coming up with that I would need to pay in $500 federal tax. I freaked, naturally. Went to H&R Block, they did my taxes correctly, and I ended up paying in (even after you add in the H&R Block costs) less than what TurboTax said I owed in!
Learn from me: go to a tax prep specialist and stay the hell away from do-it-yourself software solutions.
I guess this means that I cant download and rip a copy of TurboTax so that I can lie on my tax returns while burning it for family????
Crap.
The Code Ninja is swift with his tool, precise in his delivery, and deadly accurate in his execution.
I don't care if it's character based, but it would be cool if the IRS did a tax application that was simply self-calculating and linked so the totals from worksheet forms carry over to the tax form.
I don't need FinanceChick and TaxDude giving me video advice. I just need the instructions, the forms, and a way to save while I go out back and beat up on the shed, woodpile or a bear when I get to the "Your income tax due (or your refund)" line...
$G
-- $G
I usually print and file from the same machine at which I installed anyway. This only has two impacts
1. You can no longer get the friends and family pack, so what, it's $20.00 and is super easy way to do your taxes. How many accountants charge $20.00 for you, and your friends, and your parents. Give it up, the free ride is over.
2. Audits from the IRS go back 7 years. If I have a new computer in 7 years I won't be able to reprint this years return. So much for the "store my tax info on CD". I'm stuck with Paper as my only record keeping. That removes one of the benefits of using a computer program in the first place.
because I have been enjoined by this Holy Office to abandon the false opinion which maintains that the Sun is the centre
Here is a printable version of the article that contains less spam and is easier to read.
TurboTax for the Web will let you electronically file your taxes for free. The catch?? You have to file ONLY the 1040-EZ and make less than $25K, but since that's what I've filed the last 5 years, it's no real problem for me (yeah being a student!). If you want to file a 1040 or 1040A it's something like $10.00. But they will do your state and federal taxes online and submit them electronically.
Why would this matter to /.? Well because for the last 2 years I've used it with netscape on linux with no troubles at all. So now you can do your taxes for free with linux electronically and get a refund in around 2 days.
So don't sit there for hours and do it with the "easy to follow IRS workbook" or load windows up to use a windows only program, or go pay someone far too much money to do it for you, do them online cheaply.
Best way to get around the registration hassle of software is to not use the software that requires you to register it.
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
I've used TurboTax I guess for the last 4 or 5 years. This year as I was getting ready to buy it I checked out amazon.com and saw all the negative reviews and decided not get it as I have 4 computers in my house. So I decided to get TaxCut. I bought it from Staples but you can get it from taxcut.com. It costs less than TurboTax and it can even import all the data from last year's TurboTax. Not only that but (at least at staples.com) there are tons of rebates on different products if you buy TurboTax ($30 off money, willpower free, home and business attorney free, mcafee free, norton personal firewall or antivirus free, checksoft express free, deduction pro free, etc.
//m
I love this comment:
...
Quality Control?, January 4, 2003
Reviewer: Ex-long time user from Hernando, MS United States
I purchased TurboTax Deluxe for the fourth year in a row this year. When I went to install the program from the CD it turned out to be an AUDIO CD OF MEXICAN MUSIC! Bizarre.
_sig_ is away
Moderation Totals: Mind-Numbingly Naive, -2
Here is a link to a forum talking about C-dilla.
Don't make the same mistake I did and delete a directory called "C:\C_DILLA". I did, and my computer froze upon startup. Apparently C-dilla is a service that requires this directory to be there otherwise it barfs on you.
I didn't know what it was, and thought it might be related to Mozilla (Mozilla, Bugzilla, Chatzilla, etc). I deleted it, and upon reboot, my system froze during startup. After troubleshooting my frozen machine for around 1/2 an hour, the missing directory turned out to be the problem, along with these mysterious services that I didn't remember installing. I guess the service hung while looking for the directory and froze my entire system.
I went to uninstall Turbotax and it doesn't uninstall C-dilla. I asked Intuit Live Chat support how to remove C-dilla and they told me to delete the C_DILLA directory and reboot. I told them what would happen, but they said that's what to do. After I did it, and it froze again, they said there was nothing they could to and to contact my system administrator/vendor to fix the freeze. Thanks.
They have a 60-day return policy. USE IT. Tell all your friends and co-workers not to buy Turbotax. I was a loyal Turbotax purchaser since 1997 and I am now going to switch because I no longer trust them. Why did they install this shit on my computer without telling me, and fuck everything up?
They have completely lost my trust, and there is nothing they can do to get it back, that's for sure.
My county set up electronic renewal of vehicle licensing. It's just a simple web form, nothing fancy, and couldn't have cost much to set up. Yet it's highly effective and they encourage it because it saves them manpower and tax money, not to mention thousands of hours of people waiting in line at the DMV.
There was a movement for this a year or two ago, but Quicken et. al. lobbied against it and offered reduced-cost filing for poor people to appease lawmakers. As a result, we are stuck paying extra to private companies to file tax returns in a way that should save everybody time and money.
The most frustrating is the powerless feeling it gives a user. People will come to HATE software because of the frustration and agony of not being able to control something they feel they own. This will make consumer less reluctant to throw down $100 or $200 bucks for their next software purchase. Not good. Someone needs to find a better way.
<a href="http://www.joblessjimmy.com">Work is dumb and so is Jobless Jimmy.</a>
Feh. The only kind of music I want to hear when doing taxes is the Muzak in the lobby of my CPA. Try taking the TurboTax software packaging to tax court with you and see how much it helps.
Dental work and accounting: two things you should never do by yourself, for yourself.
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
This is just dead wrong. I sniffed my network during the install. It opens an https session to a server at Intuit. About 30k of data is exchanged (being encrypted 128-bit I don't know what data). I can guarantee that if the reg key is included, they can cripple the next install. If you don't hook the machine to the internet, they don't let you pint or file. Don't make pronouncements out of ignorance.
Moving the software (i.e. disk reformat, buy new computer) requires buying it again.
This is not what the article said. The original installer only has to hang on to the key and activation code and they can reinstall it on a new PC. It may sound like a pain in the ass but you can just keep this info with your tax records that you have to keep anyway.
I guess people are just pissed they can't split the cost of one copy of the program with their friends and family anymore.
'Same speed C but faster'
I have been a Turbo Tax user for the last 7 or 8 years. Several years ago I decided to change how I was handling depreciation on a rental property. I was able to reinstall my old copies of Turbo Tax and amend my tax returns. I had kept my .tax files around on my computer.
While it is of limited use, some people do need to access/change previous tax returns. With the new product activation it sounds like I may have been screwed.
Why is this even an issue?
If the IRS gets all of this information, (and it does , it's used to doublecheck your return) why do we even HAVE the other half of this industry?
IMHO, you ought be able to log into the IRS website, it should say 'We have this and this and this in your records, you should owe X'
At which point _you_ could add: "But I have this and this extenuating circumstance."
The IRS would then recalculate and your income tax fileing would consist of ONLY those things that are different and unusual, with the assumption that since you didn't change any earnings info, you must agree with what the IRS has.
If my HR dude enters my W-2 info once. And his software sends it to the IRS, why do _I_ have to rekey it each time? Why do I need to rekey the numbers AT ALL?
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
Do I need to activate TurboTax again if I reinstall the program? Whether or not you need to reactivate TurboTax (that is, purchase an additional product license) depends upon your particular situation:
If you reinstall TurboTax to the same hard disk that it was previously activated on, you do not need to activate it again.
If you install TurboTax on another computer, you need to activate it again only if you want to print or electronically file your tax return from that computer.
Example: You activated TurboTax on your home computer and attempt to electronically file your tax return, but for some reason you start to experience problems with your Internet connection. The next day, you install TurboTax on your computer at work, along with a copy of your tax file. In order to electronically file your tax return from your work computer, you must activate TurboTax on your work computer. Note: If you need to reinstall an activated copy of TurboTax on another computer because of a hard disk failure, or if you are reinstalling an activated copy of TurboTax on a newly purchased computer or hard disk, please contact a live agent to obtain a second activation code.
If you install TurboTax on another computer without activating it, you can make changes to your tax return using the EasyStep Interview, but you will not be able to print, electronically file, use the Forms Method, view tax forms, or save your tax file as a .pdf file from that computer.
Example: After activating TurboTax, you electronically file your tax return and print copies of the return for your records. Shortly thereafter, you replace your original computer with a new one. You install TurboTax on the new computer in case you need to refer to your 2002 tax file, but you do not intend to electronically file or print your return again. In this case, you do not need to activate TurboTax on your new computer. Product Activation lets you print or electronically file tax returns from any computer that TurboTax is activated on; it does not prevent installing the program on another computer.
<a href="http://www.joblessjimmy.com">Work is dumb and so is Jobless Jimmy.</a>
But what if you get that audit letter from the IRS in two or three years? You may want to reinstall 2002 TurboTax so you can review your records, only to find that it won't work on your most recent PC.
What if you simply need to file an amended return later this year? What if you lost your paper copy of your return and want to print another? What if you have trouble exporting your 2002 data to 2003 TurboTax, or maybe to a competing product without such an obnoxious copy protection mechanism?
There are lots of scenarios where you might need to use this software long after your initial filing. It's too bad Intuit is adopting the same kind of customer-hostile philosophy pioneered by our beloved MPAA & RIAA.
the irs returned 320 that they werent entitled to?
Lets remember, its YOUR money THEY are taking.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
Gator for example claims millions of "satisfied customers" - in my experience they have millions of victims who don't know how the crap got into their computers in the first place and no clue as to how to remove it. But I guess that's a valid "installed base".
As for C-Dilla, I don't think it's spyware (not in the classic definition anyway), but regardless of that TurboTax is no longer welcome on my computer, and I happen to be a 5 year satisfied user. There's absolutely no fucking way I'm going to live with a resident executable living in my system hooking processes to see if they are "protected". Intuit can smooch my bootay. I'm going with TaxCut for 2002.
I hope the company rents a clue from this, and I hope their sales fall through the basement and they fix it for 2003. If they do, I'll buy it again.
Supposedly, TurboTax now contains C-DILLA, which is spyware. If you search around the net, such as the aforemention fatwallet forum or amazon reviews, there are reports that CD burners don't work as well as they used to. You can't just delete the C-DILLA directory - it gets recreated or will hose your system. Installing TurboTax doesn't warn you it will be installed And uninstalling TurboTax doesn't remove it.
Yeah, the activation is annoying, and I would live with that. But I'm not getting TurboTax for this reason.
From the article:
Customers are also complaining about Safecast, the Macrovision security software Intuit uses to verify activation numbers. Reports have surfaced in discussion groups and some news sites classifying Safecast--also known as C-Dilla for the company that provided the technology to Macrovision--as "spyware," programs surreptitiously installed on a PC that track and report how the PC is used. Spyware programs such as Gator and Brilliant Digital have prompted growing concern among PC users.
I am a college student and part time computer consultant. We all know how that goes. The thing is, I've helped many clients upgrade their QuickBooks, Quicken and other Intuit products over the past several months. Let me relate to you only one of them:
Client has Quickbooks 6.0. It must be about 4 years old, or so. It is cumbersome and annoying to update the Tax table/rate codes. They use it for payroll, accounts recievable, accounts payable. Though it is a family business, it is broken into several files for manage-ability. (Legally) They have several companies set up-- and some companies are seasonal. (e.g. Yard work). From what I understand, there are federal and state tax advantages, if you have several small companies that work together. Anyway, there are about 3 employees that manage the books for 15 or so company files.
Trouble: When we upgraded from QB6.0 to QB2003, the "upgrade" did not count QB6.0 as valid. We were on hold for over 90 minutes, and finally got through to a rep, that told us we had to fax them a recipt for the QB2003 as well as a recipt for the QB6.0 from 4 years ago. (We had QB6.0 serial numbers, correspondence, etc, no good. The client had been a quicken gold support (or whatever) member for the past 4 years, up until about 6 months prior to the upgrade. They could find no trace of us in the system, and only a recipt for QB6.0 would do. They claimed they couldn't find us even though they'd mailed tax table updates a few months prior as well as a "you must upgrade to QB2002 right now because we no longer support 6.0" -- with QB2003 due out soon we decided to wait the 4 (or so) months to get the newest version. They were told QB6.0 would count for the QB2003 upgrade when they explicitly asked (at my instruction). Anyway, about 4 days later they were able to activate qb2003 with a replacement keycode, but only after faxing them both the recipts, cover of the manual and serial numbers. Did I mention we bought directly from the intuit website? As if that wasn't enough, a few days later they went to do payroll. It wouldn't let them until it went online and updated-- which it could not do because it could not verify subscription status. When done manually, after being on hold for 108 minutes, the rep said it was good for only one company file. My client would have to pay per-company. I think the "accountant edition" might side step this somehow, but it was difficult getting straight answers. We chatted with a rep on the website as well as phoned in months prior and went over the situation in detail. We ordered what they recommended. We've also discovered some features they had in QB6.0, though rudimentary, are pay-for in QB2003. It has been an extremely painful upgrade.
Though this client only had 4 QB computers, this was probably the most painful upgrade ever. The other experiences I've had with intuit proably aren't this bad, but they're not exactly great either.
If I were H&Rj, I'd get a Linux version of TaxCut out the door ASAP. Think about it. Many of us who are going to change are the same types who are/want to switch to Open Office and Linux because of similar tactics employed by Microsoft and ther XP O/S. It seem to me that there would be a very willing market that would be very difficult for TurboTax to pursue unless it drops it's own activation schems.
--- have you healed your church website?
That said, I know because I asked that the preparers have to go through a several week course, and pass a final test with at least 80-85% competency or they wash out of the program.
I think my experience trumps yours here. I took the H&R Block course. There were quite a few incompetent people taking it with me. And not a single one of them failed.
Some are also trained as Financial Advisors or Loan Advisors for Block subsidiaries, so they can sometimes point out methods of saving additional tax $ based on good investments, mortgage refinancing, etc..
And the vast majority aren't, and are specifically informed that they "are not auditors" and therefore are not supposed to advise their clients on any tax issues. They are merely supposed to ask the proper questions (which appear on their computer screen) and type them into the computer.
As for their offer to check past returns, you should realize that the people doing that checking essentially aren't getting paid by H&R Block to do it. See there is a minimal hourly salary, but it is drawn against a commission structure. All but the most incompetent employees earn more off commissions, so they aren't paid anything when there aren't any customers, so Block gives them some busy work during the slow hours checking other people's returns.
Obviously if you double check a lot of returns, you're going to come up with a lot of mistakes. I've come up with thousand dollar mistakes checking H&R Block returns from previous years, so it's not like H&R Block is special there.
Those who can do. Those who can't work for H&R Block.
Main thing for me as a small consulting company owner is that you know you're not dealing with an Enron-esque company -- their ethics and credibility are top notch.
Ha! H&R Block has been sued over and over again by the IRS for ripping off their customers. And that's just things that the company itself was responsible for. The employees pull even bigger scams.
Let the corps have their 8,000 page tax code, with their carefully lobbied for loopholes -- they can afford to hire professional accountants. And lobbiests. And lawyers.
Simplfy the tax code for normal, flesh-and-blood, breathing, REAL PERSONS.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
How does this benefit me?
With product activation, Intuit can provide faster, more efficient support for TurboTax customers. Without technology to ensure compliance with our License Agreement, TurboTax customers who legitimately purchase the product wait longer for support because of increased contacts from users seeking support for unlicensed software.
eh? Thousands of users calling support to deal with product activation issues are going to make it easier for me to get support?
Does anyone know if TaxCut has an activation scheme? I saw TaxCut Platinum on sale yesterday at Office Depot for $29.95.
If you read the article, you'd see that it doesn't. For $29.95, I'd snag it. Accordign to the article, the Platinum edition is "single owner/multiple computer" licensed. I.e. You can install it on multiple computers you own. So grab it now.
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
Flattax.gov has the info. Yes, we definitely need to switch to this. It replaces the mortgage deduction with much higher personal and dependend deductions too, ending the tax discrimination against renters. That mortgage deduction artificially drives up real estate costs too (gotta maximize that deduction! Except you're paying the bank $3 to save $1 on your taxes... but real estate only appreciates in value, right? Right?). I wouldn't want to own a McMansion if this ever passes though :-).
I've been trying to post this "review" to Amazon for a couple of days, but there seems to be something wrong with their comment posting code. So here's MY experience with TurboTax 2002
[amazon posting starts here]
I won't reiterate many of the points made by other reviewers on amazon -- I'll just summarize the reviews as "good software, but the copy protection sucks".
I had the copy protection suck more than most. I dual boot WindowsXP and Linux, using the "GRUB" bootloader (which is currently used now by, among others, RedHat linux), and installing TurboTax 2002 made my entire computer unbootable! The activation code writes some information to the front of the harddrive (before the first partition), which overwrote my bootloader, which was already living there! (This may happen with other bootloaders as well... I've only tested with the one).
And fixing my system so it would boot again (by reinstalling the bootloader) produced a copy of TurboTax that a) thought it wasn't activated, and b) Thought that my productid had already been used "by another computer", so couldn't be re-activated.
Intuit did eventually give me another product ID that worked, after I spent several hours trying to explain the problem to tech support, and rebooting time and time again as the reps had me uninstall, reinstall, install in safe mode, install while standing on my head...
The software itself is OK (Though I still wish it could import from Quicken based on the "class" of the transactions), but I have the strong opinion that installing tax software should not render my computer unbootable!
Don't buy the software.
The guys who run Intuit aren't stupid; they know they'll achieve a certain amount of dissatisfaction from some customers and lose some business, but they're betting the increase in revenue from a curtailment in copyright violations outweighs the loss of customer satisfaction and any subsequent loss of sales.
Buy something else, then write them a letter letting them know they lost a sale.
Intuit is smart enough to know that they may have 90% of the market this year, but they've got to sell you again every year. Its the nature of the market for this kind of software.
If they can't count on that annuity, they'll get the message.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
Sounds like you might want to join in this protest and get even with the system.
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
No, that's because social security and medicare aren't really taxes - they are government-run insurance programs (that government, at gunpoint, forces you to enroll in, regardless of whether you want it or not). You pay in a premium and you get some benefits when you retire (hopefully if they don't go broke by then) and need some money to cover medical expenses.
Now, since these programs are already going broke, reducing the premiums paid by everyone and, thus, the money paid into the system is a stupid idea - unless want you really want is to close these programs altogether and give people a choice about what they want to do (which is a good idea, but probably very unpopular among most voters - especially those seniors that vote by the truckloads)