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Upgrading Training and Certification?

An un-named reader asks: "For various reasons, I've been out of the workforce and IT industry since 2000, before which I was employed as an NT-based sysadmin at a large Canadian company. After moving to NYC I found the market flat and got into other work for a while. Now I find myself wanting to get back into IT professionally, but my resume is getting no nibbles at all (over 800 resumes submitted in the last year or so). As a result, I decided to take some training courses to get me back up to speed not just in the W-Intel world, but give me some usable knowledge of Solaris, a CCNA and Checkpoint. Here's where things bogged down. Are there any decent schools out there who have good facilities, good instructors and do more than 'teach-to-the-exams?"

"I checked out just about every 'school' offering training and placement in the New York City area, and frankly each of them almost had me running screaming into the night. Atrocious facilities, hot, stuffy, cramped classrooms and teachers whose every other words are 'memorize this--it will be on the test.'

Most places were shocked when I said I didn't care about certifications and exams. I explained that I need not just the theory but some hands-on experience with hardware that I don't have access to at home, and knowledge sufficient to at least get me something entry-level once again.

I learn best by demonstration and instruction so CBT CD-ROMs and 'go-read-a-book' aren't viable options for me. Since I'm not currently employed, I also need some form of placement assistance as well. Frankly, I didn't think this was too much to ask for until I really started looking. I looked at Learning Tree specifically, but their policies are strictly business-to-business training, not to individuals."

13 of 378 comments (clear)

  1. Recommended if you're in Canada: ITI by Tofino · · Score: 5, Informative

    Several coworkers, and myself, have taken courses with ITI. [www.iti.com] I've been impressed by the breadth and depth of knowledge they come out of the course with. I've always been disappointed by courses that skim the surface, or that pander to the lowest common denominator in the class. Instead, ITI tends to weed out those who can't keep up, rewarding the bright folks who pay attention.

  2. Fuhget about it. by msfodder · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Certifications get you exactly squat in a flat market.
    It's all about who you know, how you know them, and your experience(maybe).
    If you are a CCIE you may be in a certification niche where certs are noticed.
    Otherwise you are a dime a dozen.
    --
    ..Free Live Free...
  3. Employers up job requirements in tough times by t0rnt0pieces · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You didn't discuss this in your article, but do you have a college education or are you self-taught? This isn't 1999 anymore, the job market is right. Really tight. Virtually every job ad I've looked at required *at least* a BS, and many even want a masters. It may not even matter how much experience you have or how good you are, someone with a BS probably has an edge over you (if you don't have one). Assuming you don't have a BS, I would start taking classes at one of the many fine universities in NYC. CUNY is a cheap public university in NYC, if price is a big concern. If you do have a BS, think about a masters or maybe take the teachers advice on going for certifications. These days, paper chasing may get you a job faster than hands-on experience.

    --
    Karma: Excellent (In Soviet Russia, karma pimps YOU)
  4. CCNA the ebay way by redbeard_ak · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I recommend purchasing a 1700 router and/or a 2900 switch from ebay. You can set up configurations, learn the CLI and play around. Flash the rom, reload the O/S. All that. The cost is less - be patient and you can get a 2900 for less than $400 like I did.

    After the test you can resell it for what you got or you can keep it and use it in your home. Can't do either with a class.

    --
    . This sig unintentionally left blank. I meant to put something here, but I'm busy.
  5. School of Hard Knocks by Ridgelift · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I found that registering a business name and a business license is the _best_ form of certification.

    Certification means "To confirm as genuine". People are more apt to believe someone with a business card can fix their computer woes than a stack full of resumes littered with acronyms (CNE, MCSE, CCNA, A+, WYSIWYG, ad infinitum ad nauseum)

    If you know your stuff and can fix a clients problem, it doesn't matter what your certification is. All people want are results.

  6. Well From Experience a MCSA/E A+/CCNA/NET+/RHCE by puto · · Score: 4, Informative

    Ok here is the skinny from my experience and flame away. But if you do it this way you can grab a lot of certs and learn a lot along the way. Nothing is better than real world experience but a little paper behind you doesn;t hurt.

    A+ - Everyone and is brother does have it. So get it anyway. One book and one week studying. Took the tests back to back. Shows you have some basic hardware knowledge. Cause hardware and software knowledge don't exactly walk hand in hand.

    Net+ - Another easy one but really good in the sense of getting you up to speed on networking essentials. Subnetting, IP, the language and eqipment.

    Linux + - Learn the fundementals of Linux - Pass the test. Good starting block for your RHCE.

    RHCE- Do I need to explain this one? Red Hat is the industry standard Linux at the moment.

    AS for the MS stuff. It is good to have the hands on experience and the classes as well. the 2000 and net stuff is not all that easy. The 4.0 was a walk in the park. Professional and server are easy exams. But AD and the other ones are a bitch because they expect you to have experience with the product. And the exams are adaptive, very hard to teach the test with these. And also whose fault is it if you but cheat sheets?

    I am a fairly good Linux Admin, and a Fairly good Linux admin. I do not code. Don't want to. I just like keeping the highways a rolling. I don't care what you drive on them.

    But I will say this. A good Linux admin will not be a good windows admin and vice versa. Because both will be predisposed to see all bad in the opposite product. I look at windows and linux for the respective uses of each. Do not tie yourself down with one. Stay off of OS bandwagons. Learn as much as you can about both. Or any OS you can.

    I find myself time and time again sitting in the middle of the fence. My linux pals who dog Windows cause, they ***gasp*** cant admin it, and are too proud to ask someone or check MSDN. Or the Windows bunch who are stuck on reinstall when something craps out.

    Puto

    --
    The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
  7. Re:CCNA the Software Simulator Way by __aanonl8035 · · Score: 5, Informative


    There are some things you will only learn by having hand on experience with an actual router in your hands. Back in the day, it seemed like all the classes and training were using the 2501 for testing. I wanted to pipe in and mention a very good software simulator of a small LAN environment.

    http://www.boson.com/netsim/

    Ive used this software, and it is really good. You can drag and drop different routers and connect them up through swtiches or serial cables and run through all the commands of setting up a connection. Setup RIP, IGRP static routes, etc.. It feels very much like being logged in to a cisco router.

  8. Too many resumes by EnVisiCrypt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Perhaps the problem is in that "Over 800 resumes" in one year.

    As someone who does first line review and decisions of candidates, I can say with certainly that a resume that appears to be crafted to address each need that we state in the ad is more likely to get considered. Obviously, there are limits to this, but you may want to consider more closely the idea of putting more effort into fewer resumes, rather than a blanketing of 800 or so.

    --


    *everything* is Orwellian to cats.
  9. Re:Why would you want that? by mAIsE · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have been in the IT industry for 8 years, I have 5 certifications. Only one of those is still on my resume (though they are all still valid). In my experience people don't want to see certifications they want experience.

    I would suggest

    1. find a direction, UNIX, Networking (Cisco etc..), programming (what ever language)

    2. try to simulate a working environment at home, buy cheap equipment on eBay, etc..

    3. study for the exam but don't go to the classes (they are mostly useless), Use your setup at home to simulate a working environment.

    4. get books (at least 3 on the subject) and study materials on the subject of choice and dig deep, devour all the material on said subject cover to cover twice.

    This process will really teach you,

    Most of the time things learned quickly are lost quickly.

  10. Check The Resume by nick_davison · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I know it sounds trivial and off topic but I'm serious. Check your resume.

    Unless you're horribly unqualified or applying for jobs that're totally out of your league, you should have got at least a few responses off 800 resumes - assuming they're great resumes.

    I went through 6 months of searching, ending a little over a year ago. About the only thing that really changed from the beginning, where I was getting no responses, to the end, where I was getting [relatively] regular ones, was the resume. Sure, I worked on my skillsets but self-taught Perl wasn't what made the difference.

    The point is, I started by writing great resumes that focused on everything I, as a tech, thought was valuable. Unfortunately, what's valuable to a tech and what gets you employed as a tech are two totally different things.

    You put down that you have JSP, the HR department that're told to look for a web programmer with Java&JSP will discount you because you don't have "Java" - the other techs will never see the resume to realise the mistake. You put down a list of dry technical skills (because it's a tech position, after all) and the "manager" of the department who has a business degree and no IT experience won't hire you because they're looking for a team player. You try listing every technical skill and spill on to a third page - it gets thrown in the trash by someone who's received 300 resumes and doesn't want the hassle of reading to the last page where you mention the valuable stuff or they skip straight to the middle and miss the things you carefully put at the front.

    Those O'Reilly books that have been tempting you will be one of the best investments you've ever made once you're working. Until then, a really good resume book is probably more valuable.

    I honestly believe that, stupid as it may be, a perfect resume will get a significantly less skilled person a job much faster in the current flooded market than a significantly more skilled person with an "adequate" resume.

    Like I said at the start, unless you're applying way out of your league, with 800 refusals, your resume is almost certainly good but not the perfect example that you need in the current market.

    1. Re:Check The Resume by Clover_Kicker · · Score: 5, Informative

      >I know it sounds trivial and off topic but I'm serious. Check your
      >resume.

      Best resume advice I've seen: http://www.usenix.org/publications/login/2000-7/fe atures/resume.html

  11. Computer Science w/ Business Administration by foo+fighter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I faced a similar problem of hitting a wall of advancement and went back to school. I'm attending a real state university where I'm upgrading my Computer Information Systems associate degree to a Computer Science bachelor degree (with both math and business administration as minors).

    Real universities will have fully stocked computer labs. Many are Microsoft or Cisco affiliated training partners so if you want to get the enterprise software (Exchange, IIS, MOM) or have a lab full of nice Catalyst routers to play with they are the place to go.

    Most human resources people will perk up at an accredited university on a resume than someplace like Learning Tree or Global Knowledge.

    --
    obviously no deficiencies vs. no obvious deficiencies
  12. Do what you love by stinky+wizzleteats · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I went through a turning point in my career some time in 1998. I was a Novell CNE, and it became obvious to me that I needed to get an MCSE to stay competitive in the systems administration/integration job market. And so I set out to do so.

    I knew enough about Novell to see the stupid games commercial software vendors play with each other at the expense of the customer and the sanity of consultants hired to make sense of the mess. Starting on the MCSE training track was sufficient to raise my level of disgust to the point that I began questioning my career. My impression was that the industry was soulless, that hard work was not rewarded, and that the only way to make money in the business was to take advantage of customers and profit by their ignorance.

    Just as I was thinking of opening a restaurant, the nagging love that I'd always had for working with computers took hold, so I set myself to the task of reinventing myself.

    I'd started playing with Linux just a few months before, and was hopelessly inept, but found that it had rekindled my love for working with computers. Up to this point, however, I'd never considered it more than a hobby. I remembered, however, that my original decision to pursue IT was not a matter of economics, but because I really loved it. I got into computers because of the joy of programming on my C64. Long before computers were cool; long before I even knew I could make money working with them, I loved them. I realized that my hobby with Linux was in keeping with my beginnings in computers, but that I'd been restricting the time I spent with it so that I could keep up with the latest interopability problems with Groupwise and Exchange.

    I already knew I couln't go to another training class; that I couldn't pick up another trade rag; that I couldn't spend the rest of my career begging support reps to tell me the secrets of making shit work that are known only in internal documents, protected by inane marketing concerns. So despite how stupid a move it seemed at the time, I had no choice but to spend my downtime studying Linux. I started my career following my interests, and I knew I had to keep doing so.

    Then, the bottom fell out of the IT industry. In 2001, the company I was with was absorbed by another one, and in the process about 90% of the original staff was eventually hemorrhaged. I saw the writing on the wall before it really got bad, and managed to round up enough solo Linux work to get out while they were still in the mood to beg me to stay. I refused. I did solo Linux consulting for a while, then landed a hot job with a very successful network outfit. I now work exclusively in Linux, writing network automation scripting and performing enterprise security audits. I've remained employed throughout the recession thus far, and my income has steadily increased.

    Do what you love. The rest will follow. Life's too short to deal with bullshit.