HP Finally Reveals The Alpha Marvel

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HP Finally Reveals The Alpha Marvel

Posted by timothy on Monday January 20, 2003 @07:24AM from the sequels-are-sometimes-good dept.

brejc8 writes "HP have revealed the new range of AlphaServer systems. The new EV7 processors show very reasonable performance figures. Revealed by the inquirer the 1GHz versions have very similar SPEC scores as the 1GHz Itanium 2 (INT_2000 of 875 and FP_2000 of 1,500). This is very intersting after HP were rumoured to ensure that "...no Alpha benchmark will be released until the Itanium platform(s) is/are faster"."

14 of 152 comments (clear)

Only one? by LiftOp · 2003-01-20 07:31 · Score: 5, Funny

from hp: "Customers, analyst and industry leaders react enthusiastically"
I knew tech was tightening the belt, but they could only get one analyst to react enthusiastically? And you know that guy's looking over his shoulder... I'd be reacting DAMN enthusiastically if I was him.
Re:linux? by 1lus10n · 2003-01-20 07:32 · Score: 4, Informative

they should, all current versions of the alpha procs run linux great. (as verified by the alphaserver 5000 sitting under my desk running RH 7.2)

--
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." --Albert Einstein
HPs Strategy by jbischof · 2003-01-20 07:36 · Score: 5, Insightful

I am very confused on why HP says "We fully support Itanium" and then releases EV7? This architecture is so fundamentally sound that it can beat Itanium 2 on core floating point performance.
In my mind HP should either go one way or the other, not release a processor most people would claim to be better than Itanium. Why didn't Intel just buy the Alpha architecture and continue it?
I know that AMD and Intel have both dissected the EV8 planned processor, and used parts of it for themselves. EV8 was going to be 4-way SMT (Intel uses that now as HyperThreading) and have integrated Northbridge on die (same as Hammer chips).
Its a sad state of affairs when the superior architecture gets cut up and sold to different companies to produce two slightly inferior chips.
1. Re:HPs Strategy by Chris+Colohan · 2003-01-20 07:59 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Before HP purchased Compaq, Compaq had already committed to selling EV7 systems to customers. HP would be stupid to reneg on those contracts and upset their customers.
  
  Also, when HP bought Compaq years worth of design work for the EV7 were already finished. Throwing it away would not necessarily be a profitable decision.
  
  Talking to the folks on the Alpha design team (now the Intel advanced design team), they were not super happy about EV8 being cancelled. But such decisions usually come down to money...
  
  The Alpha was in almost all ways a technically superior design to the IA-64. Now that the same group of architects is working for Intel, they can probably make the IA-64 run almost as well or better...
2. Re:HPs Strategy by Syre · 2003-01-20 09:41 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Trillions (yes you read that correctly) of dollars per day move around the world on VMS-based money transfer systems (before you question this, think again. I have managed some of these money transfer systems. Over $1 trillion per day moved in and out of ONE bank I worked at several years ago).
  
  Trillions more are controlled internally by such systems. VMS systems also still power major mission-critical business processes at thousands of companies.
  
  You don't just drop a user base like that and say "ok, go convert overnight to a new processer architecture". These companies have long-term plans and are some of the biggest customers for large systems. They have already spent millions of dollars and years of effort converting from VAX to Alpha, and they aren't going to be willing or able to suddenly switch to Itanium.
  
  For those who said "just recompile", they are missing the point. It's not just the programs which need to work absolutely and perfectly, it's the OS, and VMS on Itanium doesn't even exist yet. And once it does, it has to be proven to work reliably. These systems have to have PERFECT uptime. Sure, they have hot standbys, etc. but switching over and back is typically a painful process. Remember: much of the code which runs the world is decades old.
  
  If HP doesn't want to lose billions of dollars worth of business, they won't be pulling the rug out from their VMS/Alpha customers any time soon, and the cancelling of the EV8 could very well be their undoing in this market. Unless they are able to come up with an absolutely reliable VMS port for Itanium and rock solid porting tools, this user base will migrate to some other platform (at great expense and effort) and it may very well be something other than HP.
It's hellaciously fast by nosferatu-man · 2003-01-20 07:38 · Score: 4, Informative

... at least on OpenMP type applications. Cribbed shamelessly from realworldtech.com:

SPECOMP2001 results, base/peak:

4 cpu:
EV7/1150: 6027/6824
I2/1000: 3762/4091

8 cpu:
EV7/1150: 10349/11929
POWER4+/1450: 9458/ 9694
PA8700+/875: 4375/ 4541

16 cpu:
EV7/1150: 17724/20637
PA8700+/875: 7763/ 8788
R14k/600: 7265/ 7726

Note that this is not a pure CPU test (like SpecINT/FP), but rather a test of SMP performance. Looks like the tin-foil hat "Wait 'til EV8!" brigade might have been on to something ...

'jfb

--
To spur "enterprise Linux," Big Bang, the distributed two-phase commit.
Alphas are great, but... by Peter+La+Casse · 2003-01-20 07:39 · Score: 5, Insightful

Does anybody think that HP isn't going to phase out the Alpha? For some, that doesn't matter much, but I imagine that lots of people are going to be hesitant about buying into a system whose days are so obviously numbered.
Odd reporting... by guido1 · 2003-01-20 07:39 · Score: 4, Insightful

So first, the inquirer states that HP will be posting no perf. specs for the server until blah blah blah... (But in reading the article, it's "a guy who knows overheard someone say that they won't be posting...".)

Later, it finds performance specs and posts them? (Without listing a source for those numbers...)

Odd journalism to me... Sure, the Alpha sounds pretty good... But I'll be lame and wait for the official numbers...
Re:Dupe! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-20 07:43 · Score: 4, Funny

shhhhhhhh!
Here's your chance to datamine the previous story for +5, insightful comments to karma whore here!
Re:linux? by Compaq+Test+Drive · 2003-01-20 07:51 · Score: 5, Informative

Speaking as someone who has in fact actually done it, yes, Linux will run on an EV7 Alpha system. If you'd like to try out an EV7 prototype system, we have one up in the HP Test Drive Program, where we give out free shell accounts on a wide range of hardware and operating systems. The EV7 prototype we have is running Tru64 UNIX at the moment, but we do periodically have Linux on there for people to try. We also have Itanium II systems running Linux, for anyone who would like to try them out as well.
I may work for HP, but that does not imply that my opinions are theirs.
I wouldn't trust it by Chocolate+Teapot · 2003-01-20 08:00 · Score: 4, Funny

This is a server system? A closer examination reveals that 'Hewlett Packard' is an anagram of 'whacked platter'. Better back up those hard drives now.

--
Modest doubt is called the beacon of the wise. - William Shakespeare
Re:Yes they do run Linux, VMS, Tru64 by tbone1 · 2003-01-20 08:07 · Score: 5, Funny
- everyone who's demo'd one has drolled at it.
What, Oscar Wilde was a beta tester?
--

The Independent: Reverend Spooner Arrested in Friar Tuck Incident - ISIHAC, Historical Headlines
Re:From the HP site... by nbvb · 2003-01-20 08:46 · Score: 4, Insightful

Yes, yes it is a lot easier to manage.

And for the schmuck who said "Real operating systems supports Beowolf"... :
a) It's Beowulf, not "beowolf". Check your literary history.
b) Bullpoop. Beowulf's got nothing to do with the OS, and everything to do with the applications. You show me an Oracle that uses MPI or PVM.

Of course! There's no need. Oracle already has OPS (Oracle parallel server). So yes, you can have an "8x8" cluster of Oracle nodes. Ever try to manage one of those? It's definitely a cluster ---- a cluster*uck!

SMP is a beautiful thing. It's not exactly linearly scalable, but close. And the beautiful part is that if your app is multithreaded, it'll automagically take advantage of the SMP capabilities of the system -- no need to code to the MPI or PVM API's.

Just for sheer "damn, that's cool" factor, think about this:
A Solaris 8 CD will boot and install on a single-proc, 33mhz SPARCstation 10 from 1992 all the way through a 108-processor, 900mhz/each Sun Fire 15000.

Now _THAT_'s scalable.

--NBVB
Re:I hope the Alpha lives by Best_Username_Ever · 2003-01-20 14:25 · Score: 4, Insightful

There is absolutely no way HP will try and take on Intel or anyone else in the market for low-end single processor systems. For starters the Alpha costs a lot because it has been made with scalability in mind, it cant compete on price with an Intel chip. The size of Intel and the volumes of chips they produce means HP could not compete (seen AMD's P&L figures lately?). Micro$oft also pulled the plug on alpha support years ago, and windoze still drives the low end single processor market (despite all the hype surrounding Linux).

Compaq were too scared of Intel to even remain in the high end market, where Intel are yet to make an impact. The competition is going to be fierce, it will be interesting to see if Sun and IBM can compete in the long term. Sun are already starting to look shaky, but at least they were willing to stay and fight. I think Intel will eventually push it's competitors out of the processor market, except maybe for a few niche products. The market is IMO a natural monopoly just waiting for one company to step up to the plate. The fact that Alpha is being killed just proves the point that superior technology counts for little.

Alpha is dead, this is the last hurah in what was a very significant era. Great technology developed by brilliant technicians and killed off by incompetent managers.