Slackware Forums Alive Again!

Weh by Dark+Lord+Seth · 2003-01-20 19:23 · Score: 4, Funny

Like this posting on Slashdot would actually help to keep them free of trolls... Do you guys have no shame?

Slackware's forums? Looks like User Local's forums by arfonrg · 2003-01-20 19:31 · Score: 5, Informative

Besides, Linuxpackages.net has kept Slackware forums going the whole time..

Us Slackers now have 2 forums AND a mailing list...

WHOOO HOOOO!!!!

Here's the forums:
http://www.linuxpackages.net/forum/

--
Your thin skin doesn't make me a troll

Re:Read only != Alive by jkcity · 2003-01-20 19:34 · Score: 3, Informative

it used to be read only, you can post there now.

Now maybe they can work on the store by Jason1729 · 2003-01-20 19:35 · Score: 3, Informative

It's not very re-assuring when you click on help and get a message that says "Page not found: help".

They also make you provide your credit card info and confirm the order before they tell you how much shipping is and what the total price is.

That being said, I've used slackware since version 2.3, and it's by far my favourite distro. I've tried most of the distros, and imo they don't come close to slackware's functionality and ease of use.

Jason
ProfQuotes

Re:Now maybe they can work on the store by Herr_Nightingale · 2003-01-20 20:40 · Score: 3, Insightful

I've tried most of the distros, and imo they don't come close to slackware's functionality and ease of use.
I think it's a fair assessment of the sad state of distros these days, for the newbie at least (like me!)
;o)
Re:Now maybe they can work on the store by jericho4.0 · 2003-01-20 21:02 · Score: 3, Interesting

Ohhhhh. Poor thing. :-)
Just kidding, always glad to see another newbie. If you havn't tried Debian yet, you shoud,. Or any other dist that uses apt-get, debians package manager. Apt-get makes dependencies a thing of the past.
It will not help you with all the other linux details though. Sorry. Please keep in mind that making an industrial strength OS that is also easy for anyone to use is a tall order, and people are working on it as we speak.

--
"A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
Re:Now maybe they can work on the store by alpharoid · 2003-01-20 22:27 · Score: 3, Informative

Just for the record -- those of you running Red Hat can enjoy some apt-get benefits from freshrpms.net. You install apt (and optionally the GUI-oriented Synaptic), and just sit back and enjoy the world of easy rpms without dependency problems.

Not quite as complete as Debian, but fantastic for those who don't feel like starting over and making the switch.
Re:Now maybe they can work on the store by tzanger · 2003-01-21 01:58 · Score: 3, Informative

Apt-get makes dependencies a thing of the past.

That's something I've never fully understood. Why are dependencies so farking hard to observe? I mean to a fresh newbie or someone who just doesn't have the time or interest in it, sure, but I've found apt to be more of a pain in the ass than anything else.

Disclaimer: I've been using Slackware since shortly after it first came out. I believe my first install of Linux was with the 0.99.x kernels, but it may have been the early 1.x.x kernels, I really can't remember.

Slackware's biggest bonus (and fault) has been that it lets you do as you please with packages. It'll let you install a package without having its dependencies installed. You run the app, and you get an error. Usually something along the lines of a library missing.

Now this isn't what I'd want a newbie to see or do, but for someone who's familliar with the system you run ldd on the binary and find out what's missing and install it. No big deal.

Especially now that CheckInstall is around, I have absolutely no issue with Slackware -- -current has logrotate which was sorely missing from the distro, but Checkinstall's the best. Create Slackware, Debian or RPM packages with a touch of the keyboard. Parallel installs, links, everything's supported.

Back to Slackware's packaging. What I disliked about Debian or RPM was that if the package didn't exist you had to go hunt around trying to find it and hope someone else made it, or else make it yourself, perhaps using Checkinstall. Unfortunately both RPM and DEB have heavier requirements -- dependency trees, documentation in the right spot, patches to make it fit within their particular file structure... you either use Checkinstall to make the package poorly (but validly), or you set out on a mission and end up being the maintainer of every package you make. Slackware doesn't care, which is great for me.

Sure Debian's got 10k packages, but it seems that everything I need isn't there, isn't complete, or is old, even in the unstable tree. FreeS/WAN with NAT-traversal and SA-disconnect, GNU-Radiusd, Psi, mplayer... that's just off the top of my head. If I don't install via packages (this goes for Perl modules from CPAN, too!) I now have TWO package managers to take care of -- the one in my head and the one in the distro. For me, Slackware compliments the one in my head (or vice-versa).

Anyway enough ranting -- I just don't understand how for anyone who's been using linux for any amount of time cares about dependencies. Even with upgrades.

here come the trolls.. by doowy · 2003-01-20 19:36 · Score: 4, Insightful

First.. how did this make the front page on slashdot? Is it THAT slow of a news day?

And wouldn't Slackware users just stumble upon it instead of anouncing it to hundreds of thousands of dorks on slashdot who will promptly go trolling there now (especially given that it is apparently newsworthy).

--
..mork

Re:Whoo Hoo!!! by neverkevin · 2003-01-20 19:38 · Score: 3, Funny

Hello people, read the post

>take down because of massive trolling are fully active again after 2 years of hibernation as read-only at userlocal.com

Translated: For 2 years the forums were read only, now they are no longer read only.

Uhhh.. by doubleyewdee · 2003-01-20 19:39 · Score: 5, Insightful

I'm sure this won't be a popular commentary... but do the editors here just see submissions related to Linux and hit "approve" before thinking about what they approve? I mean, maybe it's just me, but I think posting this on the front page is an open invitation to all the slashtrolls to go troll somewhere new. Doubly so since these forums already got shut down as a result of trolling beforehand.

Had the editors considered this they might have noticed that not only is Slashdot rife with trolls, but that these trolls would love to go take out a site that is obviously "vulnerable" to their actions. The forums may be read-only now, but if they become rw any time soon they may not last long because of poorly considered decisions like "let's post an open invitation to troll on the slashdot front page."

The thing is, I'm not saying this isn't newsworthy, but sometimes it isn't responsible to print things like this. Especially when you know you're likely to get a bad (bad for others) reaction from your audience.

Think before you approve, guys. Er, end maybe edit once in a while too? ;)

--

you can take the road that takes you to the stars...

well, I hope they weren't looking for more trolls by feed_me_cereal · 2003-01-20 19:44 · Score: 4, Funny

Announcing to slashdot readers that a forum that was shut-down by trolls is now back in operation is like telling the fry-guys and the hamburgler where the McDonald's truck routes run.

--
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god." - Thomas Jefferson

Why don't they use slashdots karma system by Billly+Gates · 2003-01-20 19:45 · Score: 4, Interesting

Old timers might remember what slashdot was like 2-3 years ago when trolls represented something like %50 the posts here. I almost stopped comming here and many members of my l.u.g. quit comming altogether because of it. First cmd Taco put in bans on individuals with certian nicknames from posting after so many flamebait posts.

Then I remember seeing the same posts over and over again with nicks like "asfdd3456-troll". I guess the trolls liked what the spammers were doing so they actually wrote scripts to generate tens of thousands of "..hot gritz down my pants..and Natalie Portman petrified.." posts with a different name each! Unbelievable.

This became unbearable then cmd Taco put in IP address bans. This was a lifesaver and cut down on the amount of trolls. Of course trolls can still just go to a library and post or spoof an address but it cut down trolling dramatically. Cut it down to half of what it was.

Last trolls began to experiment with page widening with lots of "."'s so an annoying horizontal scroll would be needed to read all the posts. Very very annoying indeed. A few lines of code to slashcode made that problem go away.

Anyway Patrick should use slashcode for his forum or write scripts that are similiar to slashdot's to get rid of the obnoxious trolls and use a karma system. This is the only way to ban them.

--
http://saveie6.com/

Re:Why don't they use slashdots karma system by jmulvey · 2003-01-20 20:03 · Score: 3, Interesting

[Insert the man with censored lips icon here]

So where does it stop, and who draws the line? Transparency is also the key here, as many longtime slashdot readers will also agree.

Here's a key discovery of mine from Slashdot: The ability to moderate a comment is more powerful than the ability to submit a comment.

How did I learn this nugget of knowledge? Look at my history, and you'll find that although I often post the alternative (i.e. "commercial") viewpoint, I'm not a "troll" in the traditional sense.

Yet I appear to have been banned from ever moderating. It has been at least 6-9 months, and I read slashdot several times a day. Every day.

My semi-alternative viewpoint in this forum has resulted in my sanction to the fringes of read-only activism.

Ultimately, "trolldom" is just another grey area of battleground where some will go overboard, and some will not do enough. Slashdot is naturally in the middle of this difficult new area of content management.

I understand the difficulties involved and risks. I don't blame Slashdot. In fact, I've learned a nugget of knowledge from the experience.

I just wish my relatively nonradical ideas didn't result is such obvious squelching of my voice here.

Signed,
a horrible, horrible "Troll"
Re:Why don't they use slashdots karma system by JimDabell · 2003-01-20 22:32 · Score: 3, Interesting

Old timers might remember what slashdot was like 2-3 years ago when trolls represented something like %50 the posts here.

They still do, don't they? I've adjusted my settings to only browse at 2+, so I don't see a lot of it any more. Perhaps you have done the same.

Then I remember seeing the same posts over and over again with nicks like "asfdd3456-troll". I guess the trolls liked what the spammers were doing so they actually wrote scripts to generate tens of thousands of "..hot gritz down my pants..and Natalie Portman petrified.." posts with a different name each! Unbelievable.

Simple to solve, use a turing test to prevent automated registrations.

This became unbearable then cmd Taco put in IP address bans.

Yeah, I remember that. I (and presumably every other user of my isp) was banned for months after I went to the trouble of emailing them the details of my isp's proxy servers (to avoid the "you can't post" page).

Last trolls began to experiment with page widening with lots of "."'s so an annoying horizontal scroll would be needed to read all the posts. Very very annoying indeed. A few lines of code to slashcode made that problem go away.

And created a new problem in its place: the "phantom space" bug, that breaks urls. A better solution would be to only allow long text from registered users, and only once per day, or perhaps warning them before posting something that is broken. Or (heaven forbid) actually using css to lay out the page instead of that nasty table hack.

Anyway Patrick should use slashcode for his forum or write scripts that are similiar to slashdot's to get rid of the obnoxious trolls and use a karma system. This is the only way to ban them.

Slashdot's system for coping with trolls sucks. Deliberately annoying people is against the t&cs of most isps, when it started to be a problem, the admins should have started notifying the trollers' isps.

Userlocal by tiny69 · 2003-01-20 20:01 · Score: 3, Informative

The old Slackware.com forums have been available on Userlocal for well over 6 months. The only thing that has changed recently is that Userlocal has a new hosting provider and that the forums are no longer read only.

But this may be a bad time for the forums to become active again, alt.os.linux.slackware has been getting hit fairly hard by a troll(s) in the last few days.

--
Go not unto/. for advice, for you will be told both yea and nay (but have nothing to do with the question)

"Slackware Forums Alive Again!" by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-20 20:02 · Score: 3, Funny

Nothing a good /.ing can't fix...

/. Math by tiny69 · 2003-01-20 20:07 · Score: 4, Interesting

Last post before forums were shut down: 12-14-01 13:24

First post after forums became active again: 01-20-03 21:07

Means "2 years of hibernation" on /.

--
Go not unto/. for advice, for you will be told both yea and nay (but have nothing to do with the question)

bad analogy!! by CySurflex · 2003-01-20 20:40 · Score: 3, Funny

a Forum/Message Board being in "read only" mode is not hibernation ! "Read only" is maybe suspended animation. Maybe it's Kyrogenically Frozen. or the VCR is on Pause. or it's in still-frame mode. or it's taking a break. or it's off on a vacation. or it's in debug mode on a breakpoint. or it's in neutral gear. or the windmill is waiting for the next gust of wind. or the elevator is stuck on a floor.

I need to get out more.

Shrug. by DarkZero · 2003-01-20 20:46 · Score: 4, Insightful

The thing is, I'm not saying this isn't newsworthy, but sometimes it isn't responsible to print things like this. Especially when you know you're likely to get a bad (bad for others) reaction from your audience.

This story is like the kindergarten example of the question of responsibility in journalism. Because of Time Magazine, millions of people now know of an excellent rifle to snipe with, a brilliant way to do it from inside the back of a car, and the ratio between sniping range and sniping accuracy. Arguably, anyone that reads Time Magazine or even just watches CNN is now about halfway toward being equipped to kill people from a distance with a sniper rifle. Why is this? Because our lives depended on knowing the exact type of rifle that the DC sniper was using, how much it cost, and where we could get one? Because the ratio between range and accuracy when firing a sniper rifle at a human skull had relevance to our daily lives? Because when we go to the doctor, we might want to have ourselves checked over with a sniper rifle to make sure that we don't have a life-threatening disease? No. It was none of these things. It was just sort of an interesting tidbit of information that some of us felt like knowing because we were curious.

People are bothered by what the /. editors do because they know a lot about the subjects that are being dealt with, like bandwidth costs and trolling. I've noticed, however, that few of them actively complain about the same sort of behavior when it is applied to larger issues. In fact, many of them might even see information on sniper rifles and just think that information wants to be free.

Re:Shrug. by doubleyewdee · 2003-01-20 21:42 · Score: 4, Insightful

This story is like the kindergarten example of the question of responsibility in journalism. Because of Time Magazine, millions of people now know of an excellent rifle to snipe with, a brilliant way to do it from inside the back of a car, and the ratio between sniping range and sniping accuracy.

I think there's one key difference that you're missing here, though. Time magazine doesn't have a readerbase with a significant number of serial murderers subscribed to it. Additionally, becoming a sniper isn't much like trolling on the internet. One takes significant amounts of skill, time, and money -- the other just takes a fifteen year old who has decided that "Windoze XP is for fags and I'm going to be a hax0r and terr0r1z3 the intarweb now."

The thing I'm getting at is that Slashdot has a significant group of trolls, flamebaiters, crapflooders, and all the others in its readership and they are always looking for new ways and new places to get noticed for their trolling 'sk1llz'. The editors know this, and the front page story was worded in a way that practically begged these people to go wreak havoc.

If Time magazine knew it had a readerbase which consisted of a large group of gun-toting loonies then it would, indeed, be irresponsible to publish intimate details of murder by sniping. But even that falls short of the example. To make this example really correct Time magazine would need to print an article detailing areas which are deemed 'ripe' for a sniper to attack. I'm not saying they haven't done this, because I'm sure somebody (maybe them) has. I'm just saying that for your analogy that would have been the best way to really make a proper connection, I think.

At any rate... I realize that these days "journalism" and "responsibility" are not very akin, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be. And I think that on a website with a readerbase and editorship that at least feels it is above the common denominator some responsbility ought to be shown.

--

you can take the road that takes you to the stars...

There's two sides to that... by BrokenHalo · 2003-01-20 20:55 · Score: 4, Interesting

then cmd Taco put in IP address bans. This was a lifesaver ...

I've never trolled in my life, but slashcode has blocked my entire netblock (an ISP with a strictly enforced AUP and who would have pulled the plug on any miscreant if asked) for several months now. So despite my karma being "excellent", I can now only post via an anonymous relay. It was a major piss-off that my objections were just ignored.

for your consideration... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-20 21:47 · Score: 4, Insightful

to the point made by a few about preventing trolls with various methods; while I'm not speaking for patrick v., I can tell you the attitude amoung those of us who have been and will allways be with slackware is that things like the forums should operate on comon sense and self discipline. If they can't operate in this manor, they shouldn't operate at all. This kind of belife is at the core of the slackware mentality. Slackware moves slowly and with great consideration with little thought outside influances. We like it that way.

To the remarks of slackware alive, minority distro etc; slackware may not be the most widely used linux distro, but in my opinion, when all things are considered and stacked up, it's the best distro. Many will argue that different distro's are good for different applications, I fully agree, however, if only one could remain, it would have to be slackware. I'm not alone in this, I KNOW this becuase people tell me all the time it's true. Slackware users typically differ from other linux users in one distinct way...

redhat user: I tried slackware, it was ok, I also tried debian, phatlinux, mandrake and caldera.

slackware user: I installed slackware 5 years ago. debian seems cool and redhat made me angry to use so I gave it up after 3 hours. yeah, really just used slackware.

this is ranting... I'm tired. :)

download slackware. love it. or somthing

Re:Wicked! by Xpilot · 2003-01-20 21:58 · Score: 5, Informative

Slack has always been alive. Slackers aren't as...ehem...vocal as users of other distros but believe me we're alive and kicking.

If you've noticed, Slackware has always been a profitable company. It may not be as big as Redhat or Mandrake, but its got its own share of very loyal users.

--
"Backups are for wimps. Real men upload their data to an FTP site and have everyone else mirror it." -- Linus Torvalds

Glad to see signs of life by bindster · 2003-01-20 22:57 · Score: 4, Interesting

Now that I can see that there are some lights on at Slackware, I'm going to help them polish their distro with some apps/scripts/customizations which would be Slack specific; I hope this development spurs more people to do the same, and also to create a dialogue for those who are seeking to help improve the distro. I know of a couple things that could use some work too... how about that rc.sysvinit which doesn't even work? Maybe replace it with an optional full SVR4 init system, or have the option for a kernel with an compiled boot logo. Perhaps even our own version of a package download tool (tgz-get?). Hopefully this will open the door to all that.

--
WARNING: DO NOT LET DR. MARIO TOUCH YOUR GENITALS. HE IS NOT A REAL DOCTOR.

Re:Glad to see signs of life by Viol8 · 2003-01-20 23:44 · Score: 3, Insightful

One of the reasons I use slackware is because I *like* the BSD style init scripts. the SysV init system is very logical I admit but its also long winded and it can be a pain in the arse to track down problems. And if you want a kernel with a compiled boot logo just recompile your kernel to enable framebuffers and you get it for free. Whats the big deal?

Re:Slackware's forums? Looks like User Local's for by JimmyGulp · 2003-01-20 22:57 · Score: 4, Informative

Don't forget news:alt.os.linux.slackware, and news:alt.os.slakware

But keeping those free of trolls is interesting fun. ;)

--
Dirk stood in the Stanley

Re:Wicked! by orangesquid · 2003-01-20 23:15 · Score: 4, Informative

Actually, Slack is still pretty alive.
True, you may have to understand hard drive partitions and other standard PC terminology to install it, so it may not be for "Joe Schmoe Windows User", but I love the configurability.
It almost does not have thousands upon thousands of packages, turning it into a 6- or 7-CD set that requires buying the more expensive 700MB disks. No, Slack can still fit mostly on one CD-ROM, with a few bits like KDE thrown onto another (who needs KDE/GNOME, besides? Ick.) However, I've never had any package under Slackware not work, and the only library problems I've ever had were with freetype1 conflicting with freetype2 (fixed in 8.0) and all the annoyances of keeping multiple versions of qt around because Trolltech can't keep it's fscking API the same for more than two weeks (sorry, any qt fans), but Slackware has never come with anything "broken", which I'm always grateful for.
Slackware also does not use a dependency system, which is perhaps a good idea at this point given the state of (most of) the competition (is there anything besides apt that doesn't suck?).
Patrick also keeps Slackware-current up to date with security and bugfixes; I have rarely had to wait more than a few days between hearing about a hole and being able to start that service up again. Not as quick as the instant-fixes that paying Red Hat customers enjoy, but absolutely fine for me.
Ack, I'm rambling. Anyway, Slackware is the only of the "original" distros which hasn't succumbed to vast amounts of bloat, and it has never released a new release with lots of broken libraries and such (RedHat 6.0 anyone?). Not only is it alive, but it rocks.
It's a very quality distributiong for the hobbyist, and I don't think it will ever die.

Hmm, after a preview I realize how crappy half this post sounds. Oh well, I'll post it sans karma bonus :)

--
--TheOrangeSquid Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive

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