Helix Server Source Released

Rob Lanphier writes "RealNetworks just released the Helix DNA Server source code, the main engine powering the RealNetworks' Helix Universal Server (nee RealServer). Additionally, the RealNetworks' Public Source License (RPSL) just became approved as an Open Source Initiative (OSI) certified license. Speaking of which, the Helix DNA Server is available under RPSL (which wasn't originally our stated intention). Ask questions via IRC during our live webcast at 11am PST (19:00 GMT) or just read the press release."

Comments

Really Free?

[AirLace]

I think the crunch test will come when Debian assesses the Helix server for eligibility. Until then, I'm treating this cautiously based on experience with Real. Without free codecs, this is useless anyway so it'll be interesting to see to what extent they've embraced Ogg Vorbis and the other technologies from Xiph.

Re:Really Free?

[Steve Hamlin]

I thought the point of OpenSource was sharing. Now you've got the source for a potentially great streaming media server, and you're bitching about not having the codecs?

The whole point of Open Source IS sharing.

The whole point of Free Software, and Debian GNU/Linux, is sharing, free modification and distribution, without limits. You may disagree with their philosphy, but proprietary codecs do not fit in what they believe in.

I suppose you'd rather re-write the whole server, AND the codecs yourself instead of just the codecs.

No, they would not rather write the server and codecs themselves, but if the alternative is an Open Source, but non-Free Software, server, along with proprietary codecs, they would rather not use them at all.

Just a choice they made for themselves. They are not forcing you to accept Debian's terms. The poster you are quoting is just postulating what Debian might do, for its users only, and forced on no one.

Re:What will this do for us?

[Anonymous Coward]

" or do they expect people from the OSS community to basically write their code for them?"

Why shouldn't they expect it?

They could just give the OSS world a free(tm) middle finger and be done with it. Instead, they're offering OSS programmers a chance to use their stuff.

Of course, that's not good enough for most of the people around here - they expect corporations to unexplainably cater to the smallest slice of the market, eh?

So

[Anonymous Coward]

So I guess we like Real now? Real has been one of the worst offenders in hidden opt-in agreements, obnoxious marketing tactics, and borderline spyware reporting of usage metrics back to their home base.

My, what a fickle crowd we are.

Not quite GPL [Re:Really Free?]

[gnugnugnu]

Wine changed to LGPL, which does include GPL but there are important differences and more flexible for commercial developers.

http://www.winehq.org/docs/wine-faq/t1.shtml#WHI CH -ONE-OF-THE-DIFFERENT-WINE-PACKAGES

People who say "um, no" are simple

[Acidic_Diarrhea]

Listen, back in the day, the Netscape Navigator was the number one "Internet" browser. By your logic, they should still be the market leader since they once were. Oddly enough, they aren't. You see, your statement that because something is a proven commodity guarantees that no other product will replace it goes against everything in business. I think you should apologize for not thinking this out thoroughly. Ogg vorbis could become the de facto standard with the right company behind it and the correct market conditions. Users will downoad "something else" if the market dictates that they have to or all their friends do it. Trust me, stranger things have happened.

Re:People who say "um, no" are simple

[cscx]

Times have changed. We've now reached a point where (and I hesitate to say) more and more computer-illiterate people are using computers. Most commodity PCs ship with WMP and Real for ease of conveience. They don't want to be bothered installing something else. 90% of websites with streaming multimedia content still want to cater to this clientele. Now tell me how this will adversely affect their decision...?

Oh Yeah

[inteller]

And when coke turns from the darkside and releases it's formula they'll be redeemed too....you fucks. When will you ever figure out that the people with te secrets are the ones that make money. No secrets, no money.

Re:Yay, it's Michael again!

[Mr_Silver]

Thanks for the always insightful remarks, Mike, but I'd wager that those of us who give two damns about our privacy would much rather use a cross-platform, free solution such as Helix as opposed to the DRM'ing-you-and-all-your-files program known as Windows Media Player.

Even with all those people out there who do give two damns about their privacy, this still doesn't detract from the fact that Real pretty much has been "beaten-down-by-windows-media-player".

To put it another way, Windows may not be the operating system of choice for many Slashdotters, but that still doesn't detract from the fact that it has 90% of desktop market share.

That's nice. Call me when the client works

[wowbagger]

I applaud Real for releasing their server in this fashion.

Now, when the client for Linux will actually work with Mozilla, will actually play content that is available without generating spurious "You need to be root to update this" messages, and is actually easily found on the main Real site without resorting to using Google, then perhaps I might get excited about this.

But a server without a client is nigh useless. And if you want to say "But the client for Windows works great" - yes, but then so does Windows Media Player, and it comes pre-installed.

Commercial penetration of an open platform

[CharlieO]

Thats what it will do for you.

The money in streaming media is the server end, the clients are generally given away free or at very low cost - you want people to demand that companies install your server product so there is no point stiffing the consumer.

This was Real and Microsoft's approach - but of course Microsoft has a real adavantage [pun intended] because it can put a player on every desktop that it sells - so buisnesses in have to buy Microsoft streaming server software because of consumer demand.

But then people with Mac/*NIX/Set top boxes are cut out of the loop because MS doesn't do players for those platforms, and they won't release the codec details for others to use because then someone could code an alternative streaming server.

Real is fighting back by offering an open platform server - in this case anyone who wants to write support for thier player can look at the server code and write a plug in for it. The attraction for a buisness is they now potentially can install one streaming server and probably one set of master media files - they can stream media to any player on any platform.

This gives Real a commercial adavantage over MS becuase MS software needs to run on MS operating systems - and most big internet stuff is still the domain of various *NIX

Helix could be compiled for your particular choice of OS - thats a definate plus over the MS offering. Even if MS offered binaries for a number of OS's you still don't have as much choice.

Now what they want is everybody to install Helix as thier streaming server. They win by market penetration and you still have to license the codecs for thier RealPlayer series so they have a revenue stream.

Real are NOT going to release the codecs open source because that could allow anyone to write server software that works with thier free players and they are rapidly out of buisness - the only other option would be to charge for the players - but people would then use MS players anyway. Either route they are commercially dead.

So if you want to write TuxPlayerDeluxe then what you do is look at the Helix code and develop a plug in for your player - now you can get buisness to support you. You'll not get a commercial entity to install your homegrown server software on thier servers, but they may use your plug in if you get enough demand, so the success of Helix will help open source media player developers.

So the advantages are:
1) Real can offer an all in one solution and hopefully become the prefered solution to Microsoft
2) Real can continue to make money from licenseing codecs, rather than having to charge for the player.
3) Anyone can write support for thier favourite player/format

I mean to me this looks like a finely balanced mix of commercial sense and Open Source support such that Real can make money.

The good thing is if it works and big commercial streamers - for instance the BBC - switch to Helix then it actually will help the adoption of open source formats like Ogg Vorbis because it will so easy to support.

Alternatively if MS wins the server software war 90% of the net will not notice, but the rest of us will lose. Bare that in mind when worrying if the codecs are Open Source or not - they never will be - but kicking Real may just play into MS's hands.

I'm not a great fan of either companies buisness practises - but at least in this case Real is doing something that benefits our community - lets support them on this and maybe in a year or two's time they will do more to support open source.

Re:w00t

[ChaosDiscord]

It is ironic how over-estimated open source really is, rather than being seen for what it often really is

-A last ditch, before being kicked in the grave attempt

Yes, some software is open sourced as a last ditch rescue attempt. So what? Most of that software proceeds to fail and we forget about it. The successful open source software (Apache, Gnome, KDE, Gnumeric, Linux, GCC, GIMP, and others) isn't. It's software started for the sole purpose of providing the software in an open source way.

-A shirking of normal software development responsibilities.

Normal software development responsibilities typically come with a paycheck. If you'd like to pay for the software, I'm sure you can get the support and improvements you're interested in. There are even companies dedicated to this.

Many open source projects have exceptional documentation, great user interfaces, and are exceptionally stable. Sure, you'll find open source software with bad documentation, poor user interfaces, and are unstable. Of course, you'll also find proprietary software with these same flaws. I'm sure you avoid crappy proprietary software, so just start avoiding crappy open source software. Meanwhile people who do like the crappy open source software will keep working to improve it, perhaps to a level you're willing to use, or someone might decide to try a business model around supporting the software, bringing it to a level you'd accept. With open source software I have additional options. If I'm dissatisfied with the interface or stability, I can fix it or hire someone else to fix it. There is typically an abundance of for-sale documentation for popular open source products (sure, it costs money, but since the software was cheap, spend some of your savings on a book).

Relatedly, could you point to the definition of ironic you're using? I'm not seeing one that matches your use.

And who submited this?

[Anenga]

Why Helix's Community Coordinator at RealNetworks of course!

Does Helix include RDT support?

[__aawsxp7741]

Currently, realplayer still seems to be the only option for those wanting to play realaudio streams. Quite annoying, especially when trying to record internet radio. mplayer still can't do this, for example. live.com has some info on this. Seems the protocol is undocumented.

So, I'm wondering whether the Helix server or possibly client contains code documenting RDT, which would allow either integrating that code into the live.com libraries, or at least reimplementing it.