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Copyright Rumblings

dcunning writes "The Economist has a short opinion piece entitled Copyrights: A radical rethink that suggests (horror of horrors!) going so far as reverting back to the original copyright term of 14 years, renewable once. The article suggests that, in exchange for this, the 'content industries' be given 'much of the legal backing which they are seeking for copy-protection technologies.' A worthwhile and fair tradeoff?"

20 of 474 comments (clear)

  1. And this is relevant because? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why would the content industries be content with a fair compromise when they can buy enough influence to have all the legal, anti-copy methods they want, and enough influence to buy 357 year copyrights?

    1. Re:And this is relevant because? by Zemran · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Maybe because they realise that they cannot have it all their own way. As Americans get a rapidly worse deal the situation in the rest of the world becomes more obviously different. How do you think it will be in a few years when you can buy things, legally, anywhere else in the world that you cannot buy in the US and everyone in the world can see the stupidity. Even the polititians will start to feel like idiots after a while. A lot of Walt Disney cartoons become free to copy in the rest of the world soon,but not in the US. Will the US start search all mail coming into the country? Or do they have to face up to how absurd the situation already is? Will the US move forward or continue to make a fool of itself?

      --
      I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
    2. Re:And this is relevant because? by mickwd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is relevant because its an article in a magazine written for important business people which is talking about the issue, and telling them that there is a serious problem here. This is much more significant it terms of publicising the issue to the world at large than a bunch of people on a techies-only website wingeing amongst themselves and (with a small handful of exceptions) not doing anything significant about it.

  2. So let me get this straight... by levik · · Score: 5, Interesting

    For the first 14 years of release, the content industry would actually be able to leaglly force me not to read a book aloud? (If you recall this is one of the looney rules they have been trying to make fly with eBooks.) I don't really see how this is fair at all, especially given that 90% of attempted use of such material happens within a few years of its release.

    --
    Ñ'
    1. Re:So let me get this straight... by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Informative

      especially given that 90% of attempted use of such material happens within a few years of its release

      I hate having to debate people who use static scoring to argue against things. If the copyrights on modern living authors started expiring one-by-one, their public domain works are more likely to be taught in schools, where presently they're not because a 30 year old copyrighted book is just so expensive to buy, compaired to a fully public domain author such as Mark Twain or Charles Dickens, who has seen most of the use of his work occur long long long after their death.

      Kazza might actually have something legal to do if some of the early MTV music videos were in the public domain...

    2. Re:So let me get this straight... by gilroy · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Blockquoth the poster:

      Is that correct? Does the DMCA not apply to circumventing acess protection to copyright works? How can this still apply after the copyright has expired?

      Yes, it's correct. The DMCA, while nominally a copyright act, has a lot of (hopefully) unintended consequences. Because a DRM scheme might be used on many, many works -- and because those works would pass into public domain at different times -- work on breaking any DRM scheme is prohibited. Consider: Books A, B, and C are all protected by Frobozco Magic Digital Rights Management Technology. Book A goes into public domain in, say, 2077, but B and C enter public domain in 2082. If you're allowed to crack FMDRMT in order to read Book A, you'd also possess the technology to read B and C, even though that would be infringement.


      Now, you might wonder, shouldn't it be the actual infringement that is illegal, and not the mere potential to infringe? Old school, yes. But not in the brave new world of intellectual "property".


      Of course, this encourages the Content Cartel to lock up everything behind the same DRM, and to continue using it for many many years. That way, even the "public domain" works cannot be legally accessed without paying a fee. That's the way we're going to get perpetual copyright. The Sony Bono Act was -- pardon the pun -- strictly Mickey Mouse in comparison.

  3. Does copyleft expire? by duckpoopy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is there any such expiration date on open source code licenses?

    --
    word.
  4. Faced with two bad choices.... by reynolds_john · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's an old tactic:

    First: present the consumer first with a horrible way of doing things.

    Second: the consumer will take almost *anything* else, and even something else bad seems good.

    This is a regular management tactic in some places. You should be able to sniff this one a mile away.

    1. Re:Faced with two bad choices.... by realperseus · · Score: 5, Funny
      offtopic

      Sounds like the way we go about electing our President every 4 years here in the US... .. .

      /offtopic

      --
      "Trusting every aspect of our lives to a giant computer was the smartest thing we ever did.." Homer Simpson
  5. Not a fair tradeoff by Fished · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It would not be a fair tradeoff to give up the copy protection battle for shorter copyright terms. Here's why: if I am not allowed to possess technology that could be used to copy copyrighted material (whether I use it for that or not) I will not be able to copy the materials even after the 28 years copyright expires. So far, I am not aware of any DRM technology that does a very good job of supporting expiration of protection.

    Further, the problems related to fair use remain. I have an affirmative right to use short segments of copyrighted material in other works. For example, if I wanted to preach a sermon demonstrating how media culture affects us, I might want to use a short clip from the truman show. I have that right under fair use - but I can't do it from a DVD legally right now because of the DMCA which prevents me from legally owning the technology that would enable it. The chilling effect is a scary thing.

    --
    "He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
  6. The Eric Eldred Act by EricEldred · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Much of the inefficiency of current copyright law comes from the lack of registration, deposit, and renewal, all of which strenghtened the public domain in earlier copyright law.

    Larry Lessig has proposed a tiny tax 50 years after a work is first copyrighted. If the tax is unpaid, the work goes into the public domain. The tax represents some positive move to show the work has commercial value.

    Maybe 50 years is too long. But if we are to lobby for such an act we need to make compromises with the strong copyright interests such as Hollywood.

    It might seem immodest to have an act named after me, but I have grown accustomed to the loss of my name after the case Eldred v. Ashcroft. I think it nicely opposes the Sonny Bono Act.

    For more on the Eric Eldred Act, see
    http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/lessig/blog/arch ives/ EAFAQ.html

    What do you think?

  7. Re:It'll never happen by Bonker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is correct. Copyright violation right now has the same stigma of speeding. You know its dangerous. You know it's against the law. You also know that *Everyone* does it. Even lawmakers.

    Passing a law like this is the equivalent of abolishing speed limits in exchange for forcing auto-makers to put anti-speeding technology in cars.

    There are legitimate reasons to speed (medical emergencies, accident evasion, etc...) and there are legitimate reasons to copy of copyrighted material. Exchanging one for the other simply isn't workable.

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    The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
  8. Let me get this straight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    They have their cake and we eat it? Or we have the cake and they eat it? Or to we share tha cake? Or maybe it's a pie? I like blueberry.

  9. An Exercise In Futility by Dr.+Wu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why do I have the feeling that this decade is going to be known as the "Mine! Mine!" decade.

    The genie is out of the bottle, and no law, technology, or ad campaign is ever going to put it back in. Copyrights have been violated since the first artist in history signed their name (or stamped their mark) on their work.

    (and as a descendent of one of the artists in Altamira, I would like my cut of the souvenir profits)

    Why the recording industry (and others) now feel threatened enough to start raising a fuss, is because it's just become much easier. Although, overall, I don't see how it can really hurt their bottom line. They are making many times the profit on their product than they did in the 70's, 80's, and 90's (am I the only one who's noticed how $1 and $2 paperbacks are now selling for $9 - $12. Was there a sudden paper shortage that I never heard about?). Don't even get me started on CD's, do you really expect me to believe that the bottom line cost of a CD is twice as much as a cassette tape (considering the markup).

    If the industry would get smart and offer their products at a decent price, it would help to insure that the run-of-the mill consumer is not tempted to use other means to acquire the product. But if they expect that a few words in a lawbook is going to stop what has already started, they are dreaming.

    Dr. Wu

    PS: If the music industry is so perfect themselves, then why are they settling the lawsuits against them for illegal price fixing.

    Music CD Settlement

  10. Another grand idea... wasted. by Art+Popp · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The author makes a great case. He proposes trade-offs that would be in everyone's best interest. And that's why it will never fly.

    The problem is the content industries feel they "deserve" the original copyright term, and that the digital age is simply infringing on their "rights." And, quite short-sightedly, that all they need to do is get "better" laws and the next generation of technology will put it right.

    Hundreds of people proposed very reasonable, in fact still too expensive, methods to make music available online. The problem with these systems was that they were reasonable. The current system of paying $15 for CD with 3 good songs 2 mediocre, and the remainder, crap is extremely profitable. No self-centered individual would endanger such a system for one that would allow a user to pay $3 each for their two favorite songs and ignore the rest. It just won't happen.

    These people will fight tooth and claw to retain total control of our culture until we wrest it from their grasping hands.

    The next generation of crypto-verifying players, and per user-agreement encrypted, signed music downloads, will be a telling test. They will lower the prices enough that many people won't care. They will then usher in laws that make any tool that plays digital music a "tool of piracy." Large proprietary software corporations will step right into the meal line with their ticket in hand, and the FOSS community will be all that stands in their way. Should be exciting to watch.

  11. Re:28 Years by The+FooMiester · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It would certainly change the business model. Those artists would either have to live off of what they've made already, or go on tour to do music and make money that way. Or *gasp shudder die* write new material. Not that all don't, but you'd see more of it for certain . . .

    It'd be a boon for musicians starting out, because they'd no longer have to secure rights to play those classic songs, they could just perform them. And it would ALSO spell an end to those stupid bad substitutes for Happy Birthday you hear at resturants.

    --
    The previous has been a secret message to my comrades.
  12. Better solution by Enry · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Make copyrights like tyrademarks.

    You get copyright protection for only as long as you use it. Mickey Mouse gets used today, then Steamboat Willie and the MM icon used by Disney gets protected.

    Sony doesn't sell N'sync CDs anymore to retailers? Fine, their music is now public domain.

    On the plus side, it allows vendors with known icons (the Mouse) to retain the legal proection they need, while allowing 'abandonware' to go where it rightfully belongs - the public.

    Don't forget this would cover games too, solving that nasty question of older games that aren't being made anymore.

  13. My proposal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've been suggesting this for a while:

    Reduce the term of copyrights to somewhere between 20 and 40 years. (Basically, the working lifetime of an author.)

    More importantly, I believe that copy protection clashes with the Constitutional purpose of copyright. I propose to not allow materials which are copy protected to be copyrighted. Make the author choose between the two. I think this is important since the purpose of copyright (at least under the US Constitution) is to produce art & science which eventual enter the public domain. Since copy protected materials are designed to impede reproduction, propogating those materials will often be difficult once copyright expires. Since they can't easily enter the public domain, they should not be copyrightable.

    (You might also be able to convince me to make the penalties for violating copyright more severe if this is done, to help convince people to not copyprotect materials.)

    I am for strong copyrights. I don't think Gone With the Wind, the Three Stooges, and maybe even Elvis should be under copyright any more, though, and I don't think any copyrighted materials should be copy protected.

    John

  14. Re:Absolutely not!!! by thoth_amon · · Score: 5, Interesting
    What's unreasonable from keeping the public from copying your work and giving it to friends while you're trying to make money from it within a shorter time frame?
    AND keeping people from making backup copies in case the original is damaged, AND keeping people from making personal compilations, AND keeping people from making a copy for the car/office/whatever, AND keeping people from making digital works of criticism or education which quote the original in its original form.

    Well said. Even 14 years (really 28 years if renewed) is too long if in exchange we must forfeit all reasonable uses of the material. And if consumers have the ability to make a copy for the office, they have the ability to make any number of copies for any reason, using the sound-out jack if nothing else. No: in general, circumvention for fair-use purposes is absolutely required.

    My proposal (which I heard from someone else, but I've forgotten who, so forgive me for failing to provide a credit, and pray don't sue me for copyright infringement):

    If you put your copyrighted material in the marketplace with no copy protection mechanisms, then you will receive one 20-year term of copyright protection, non-renewable. Consumers will receive a number of legitimate fair uses of the work, including quoting small sections, time-shifting, space-shifting, backups, playing for family and close friends, even sharing with close friends (like I make a compilation tape and give it to my wife). However, any non-fair-use of the material is a crime, and all copyright crimes will be aggressively punished by authorities. That means sharing a copyrighted work on Kazaa could mean a hefty fine, and enough violations could mean jail time. Kinda like getting a nasty speeding ticket. In other words: create reasonable copyright laws and then do everything within the state's power to enforce them. BTW, I am referring here to casual or non-commercial copyright infringement; for-pay infringement is a different kettle of fish and would probably involve jail time by default.

    On the other hand, if the copyright holder uses any form of copy protection, including schemes to lock consumers into approved players or any other nastiness of that kind, that's fine; but the copyright work loses all protection of the laws. In other words, you can rely on copy protection if you wish, but then if the consumer circumvents your protection you are shit out of luck. Attempts to circumvent your protections would be 100 percent legal, and it would also be legal to pass around the cracked work all you liked.

    In short: make copyright law reasonable; make fair-use mandatory (at least if you want legal protection for your copyrighted work); and then enforce the reasonable copyright laws aggressively.

  15. Rights should go with responsibilities by GerardM · · Score: 5, Interesting

    To me the worst thing of the copyright question is, that companies acrue title to the rights to copy and THEN decide not to as it is economically not "prudent" to do so. As a consequence a lot of important material never sees a reprint even though there is a need for it.

    When material is "available" the cost of getting things that are rare like classical music is such that it cannot only be described as in money terms but also in effort. I live in a 200.000 person town and my personal collection is bigger that what can be found in the record shops. The function of a recordshop is to allow me a listen befor a sale. Without an infrastructure for the sale of material how can the punters be held responsible for not buying or for copying copyrighted material?

    When I need a book for study and I cannot have it because of it being out of print, is it not criminal that I cannot get it? That I cannot have a digital copy and print it myself because of this "copyright" joke ?

    When the Economist argues for a short period where an artist is to be protected, where does the publishing company come into play when they DO NOT provide the service that they ARE named for; publishing?

    In my opinion, any period I can live with as long as there is an equal weight on the other side of the balance. That weight must be service.

    Thanks,
    Gerard