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Manipulating the Brain with Magnets

hackwrench points to this Boston Globe story, writing "Some guy has figured out how to use magnets to disable or enhance part of the brain." And this is on a part of the science spectrum not occupied by Alex Chiu.

53 comments

  1. Scientific American Frontiers Story by Isao · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There is a related story about using an electromagnetic field to stun a portion of the brain to see how it affects congitive performance.
    Scared the hell out of me.

    1. Re:Scientific American Frontiers Story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      about using an electromagnetic field to stun a portion of the brain to see how it affects congitive performance

      It's time to start making those fancy-pancy tinfoil hats :)

    2. Re:Scientific American Frontiers Story by Simon+Field · · Score: 3, Informative


      I seem to recall Eric Wasserman giving a paper on this in 1996 or thereabouts.

      There is actually a lot of stuff on this floating around the 'net, as you would expect of a technology that is that old.

      Some discussions in more depth can be found here, written for a general audience, and herehere for those who want more meat.

    3. Re:Scientific American Frontiers Story by Alsee · · Score: 4, Funny

      Scared the hell out of me.

      An 8500 amp zap to region 5 of the limbic area will cure that. Total shut-down of the fear response.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    4. Re:Scientific American Frontiers Story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Some discussions in more depth can be found here [musc.edu], written for a general audience, and here [musc.edu]here for those who want more meat.

      Here's some more meat.

  2. The Truth Machine by Inexile2002 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While browsing a used bookstore I found a copy of a novel called "The Truth Machine" which I haven't read yet but sounded interesting. Just the implications of being able to force truth and honest under certain situations. I mean, would ANYONE vote for a canditate who refused to subject himself to honesty treatment while in office?

    As scary and twisted the applications of this type of technology could be, I think that the benefits in terms of the direct applications and increased understanding of the brain would be worth it.

    Now, if only we could plug one into the /. Post Comment page and reduce all the troll posts to"In Soviet Russia I'm a pathic looser with too much time on my hands and nothing valuable to say."

    1. Re:The Truth Machine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      pathic looser? Someone who pathologically loosens? Or perhaps loosens telekinetically?

      Or perhaps you meant to say "pathetic loser."

    2. Re:The Truth Machine by joto · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I mean, would ANYONE vote for a canditate who refused to subject himself to honesty treatment while in office?

      Yes. I would be very skeptical to someone that has done so little, that he has absolutely nothing to hide. The fact of the matter is, I would be more skeptical to someone who accepted the "truth machine", if you couldn't even find one interesting thing there. I am not sure what kind of person that would be, but certainly not something I would call human.

      I would also consider it unethical to force anyone to publicly be in a "truth machine" (well, with the possible exception of hideous crimes, etc...). While it might have it's use in some situations, those people listening and questioning should surely have taken a wow of silence. And if the information was used in e.g. a courtroom, huge steps should be taken to protect the vitnesses to limit the information gained this way to exposure by the public (e.g. only by consent of vitness and lawyer).

    3. Re:The Truth Machine by zsmooth · · Score: 1

      I read the Truth Machine and really enjoyed it, despite the author's extreme liberal bent.

      Basically it's about a really smart dude who manages to create a lie detector that works 100% of the time. (Well, except on him, but read the book to find out why...)

    4. Re:The Truth Machine by SylvesterTheCat · · Score: 1

      >>"And if the information was used in e.g. a courtroom..."

      There is just a small problem with that (at least in the United States) and it is know as the Fifth Amendment. You know, that pesky thing that says something about a guarantee that no one would be forced to incriminate himself in court.

      Granted, what you are saying is getting information and then using it in court instead of getting it in court, however I do not believe that there is a legal distinction. The result is the same. IANAL.

  3. Testers? by SoCalChris · · Score: 4, Funny

    magnetic stimulators charge up to a whopping 3,000 volts and produce peak currents of up to 8,000 amps - powers similar to those of a small nuclear reactor.

    Ok, seriously... Who would volunteer to have this tested on them?

    Tester: Hey, would you mind if I strap this 3,000 volt & 8,000 amp electromagnet to your head?
    Idiot: What's in it for me?
    Tester: It'll make you go deaf & mute for a few minutes.
    Idiot: Cool! When can we start?

    1. Re:Testers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Folks with mental/brain diseases. ie Parkinson's Syndrome.

      When you've got nothing, you've got nothing to lose.

    2. Re:Testers? by Optical+Voodoo+Man · · Score: 1
      For a lot of medicines, they try them out on prisoners. You certainly won't be getting any convicts signing up for this one, at least not guilty ones:

      "Did you do it?"

      "Yes. Doe!"

    3. Re:Testers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Doe?" "DOE"?!!

      jesus.

    4. Re:Testers? by antithes1s · · Score: 2, Interesting

      We got to play with one last week in my biopsych class. Pretty fun stuff. My primary motor cortex was stimulated, causing my hand to uncontrollably clench etc... It was only a single pulse TMS so there was no going deaf or anything. Some people can see phosphemes (round blueish-green bubble things) when their viual cortex is zapped though.

    5. Re:Testers? by EggplantMan · · Score: 1
      a whopping 3,000 volts and produce peak currents of up to 8,000 amps

      That says nothing about its magnetic properties. How many teslas does it produce?

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      ?-|||-----x<*))))><
  4. But wait! by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    Those are just two of many effect this device can produce. And it only has those effects when pointed at a certain portion of the brain, and set to a certain setting. The other effects the device can produce are more benefical. Are you sure you read the whole article?

    1. Re:But wait! by SoCalChris · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I read the whole article, and I do realize that there are other possible benificial uses. There is still no chance in hell that I'm sticking my head in this thing though. If you want to, thats great. I guess your post answers my question about who would actually want to have this thing tested on them!

    2. Re:But wait! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, if they can cure my tinnitus, then I'll be #81893 in line!

  5. Run of the mill memory damage by fatcat1111 · · Score: 5, Funny

    TMS did induce several seizures in participants in the early years, but researchers have since worked out technical safety rules that prevent them and established that no significant memory loss occurs.

    No, nothing significant. Just the standard 3,000 volts through the brain memory loss. Sign me up!

    --
    How Politicians Lie: http://www.factcheck.org/
  6. Old News by DaoudaW · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here's a story on the same researcher from 4 years ago.

    Oh and by the way, the 3000 volts / 8000 amps is to power the magnet; the brain does not get zapped!

  7. Why didn't you say so? by NickFusion · · Score: 1

    Well, you're only putting your head inside an 8000 amp electromagnet. I feel *much* better about that idea.

    What's that, like sitting in front 10 x 10^8 CRTs for, say the next 100 years?

    I'd make the old ?/profit gag, but I'm too lazy.

    --
    What were you expecting?
  8. Sleeping on Airplanes by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 5, Funny

    Prediction: the first consumer device to use this technology will be a headband unit that will knock out your hearing so you can actually get some sleep on an airplane.

    It will be sold in Sporty's for $699 and Slashdotters will complain that earplugs work almost as well.

    The next generation will actually knock you unconcious, leaving nothing to chance.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    1. Re:Sleeping on Airplanes by Cyno01 · · Score: 1
      The next generation will actually knock you unconcious , leaving nothing to chance
      Yeah, but then slashdotters will complain a hammer or largeish rock works almost as well.
      --
      "Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
  9. I recommend this book by shunnicutt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The Truth Machine is a fascinating book. I very much recommend it.

    Briefly, the machine merely indicates whether the peson under examination is intending to lie or not, because the machine is in no position to actually determine truth.

    The book explores the ramifications of such a machine on society and it's quite engaging. For instance, examination by truth machine became necessary for most licensing, and legislation was introduced granting amnesty for crimes committed before the truth machine was available.

    Check it out.

  10. End the war on drugs by oren · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Once the technology is out for stimulating the pleasure center in the brain, using this sort of trick, it would be the cheapest, most popular drug ever. Probably made by Sony.
    As a tribute to Larry Niven, they should name it the "WireHead(TM)" after his nickname to the addicts of this "drug". Isn't modern science wonderful?
    I don't want to even think of the potential use of the reverse - directly stimulating the pain center. Shudder.

    1. Re:End the war on drugs by C21 · · Score: 1

      pleasure/feelings of well being are a bit more complex than a single area in the brain. Think receptors, synapses, and lots of nodes oozing out serotonin...you've got a rough picture then.

      --
      this is not a sig.
    2. Re:End the war on drugs by ArsonPerBuilding · · Score: 1

      Do you have to use a cranching wire when you want to temporarily have a reprive from being a WireHead?

      --
      1 tequila 2 tequila 3 tequila floor
    3. Re:End the war on drugs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Niven's name for the device itself was a droud. Ranged versions are called tasps. Using a tasp on an unsuspecting person is know in his books as "making someone's day".

  11. Research opportunities with TMS by penguin_bear · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Most interestingly enough though with this TMS procedure is the opportunity to simulate brain injury non-invasively. For the most part, studies particularly in neuroscience, for example neuro-linguistics, occur on post-trauma patients or split-brain patients. In these cases, injuries hardly ever are restricted to one area and problems or symptoms are compounded. From a research perspective thus, this may just offer new opportunities to understand how our brain works- defective so well as healthy functions.

  12. Cellphones & powerlines by Patrik_AKA_RedX · · Score: 1

    Perhaps in a few years they can (dis)prove the braindamage that cell phones and powerlines cause. If 60MW of EM radiation doesn't cause any harm, then I don't think 2W of cell phone EM power will.

    1. Re:Cellphones & powerlines by Deagol · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Next you'll be saying that because getting X-rays of your teeth at the dentist doesn't cause cancer, we can all be content to subject ourselves to constant low does of X-rays every day?

      There's a huge difference between the rare large dose of something versus chronic exposure to that same thing.

    2. Re:Cellphones & powerlines by Noren · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Constant low doses of X-rays every day, like everyone who lives on Earth?

      Sounds horrifying, but who can be sued for it?

      Unless you can identify a lawsuit target, there's no reason to blame your medical problems on it.

    3. Re:Cellphones & powerlines by srn_test · · Score: 1

      X-Rays from your dentist _do_ cause cancer. All X-Rays probably do. The point is that the benefits outweigh the (tiny) risk.

    4. Re:Cellphones & powerlines by umofomia · · Score: 1

      There is a difference. X-rays you get at the dentist/doctor are several times the power you get daily from the environment. However, emissions from cellphones or powerlines are lower that the daily amount you get from the environment anyway.

    5. Re:Cellphones & powerlines by norton_I · · Score: 1

      I have been told that the X-ray dose you get from having an X-ray photograph taken at the doctor is about the same as what you get from taking a trans-atlantic flight due to being at higher altitude for 8 hours.

      They really have medical X-rays working down to extremely low levels of radiation. Not something you want to be hit with every day, or several times a day (which is why the technitions leave the room) but not something that is a big deal to have happen periodically.

  13. Alien Abductions by Deagol · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I remember sitting through an entire Sunday afternoon of Discovery Channel paranormal-themed shows.

    One show on alien abducitons illustrated a doctor's theory that magnetic fields caused people to "experience" abductions. They sat some woman in a contraption designed to control the magnetic field in her brain. It wasn't the quick "zapping" described in this article, but was (I think) a continuous state of field applied to the brain.

    It was kinda freaky. Depending on how the doctor had things set, the woman experienced floating, a feeling of paranoia and being watched, and unfocused fear.

    Seemed like a plausible explanation of the adbuction experience. However, I am not convinced that such magnetic fields randomly wind up in people's bedrooms.

    1. Re:Alien Abductions by norton_I · · Score: 1

      >Seemed like a plausible explanation of the adbuction experience.

      I don't know what the appropriate magnetic fields are for this, but it could easily be that some other chemical or physiological thing triggers the same section of the brain as the magnetic field.

      The magnetic field is a good way to study effects like this, but to conclude that stray magnetic fields are the cause of those sensations "in the wild" is specious reasoning at best.

  14. Remind anyone else of _Deepness in the Sky_? by abulafia · · Score: 2, Informative

    My first thought was the "read/write" MRIs featured in Vinge's _A Deepness In The Sky_.

    --
    I forget what 8 was for.
  15. International policy? by phorm · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That's fine for internal policy... but when said politician is wheeling and dealing with other countries, do you actually want him 100% truthful?
    Well, actually, we're more-or-less trying to just get ahead ourselves and don't give a sh*t about your insignificant little country. If you hadn't found a huge oil deposit then we wouldn't have noticed you at all.

  16. God Machine by jayrtfm · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Wired has had some stories about this. TMS has been used to create "out of body" and religious experiances.
    I wonder how long before the Scientologists start using this......

  17. Magnetotactic Bacteria by Gamasta · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't recall if those filaments were also found in humans, but I think so. Small Fe3O4 magnetized filaments. Similiar to those described in a famous article by Blakemore (i read a review in a journal from 1996). Could be the practical effect of strong magnetic fields acting on those strains.

    Something on the magnetotactic bacteria is found at this page

    --
    reason defies logic
  18. "A child could do it!" by klui · · Score: 2, Funny

    So that's what McCoy put on his head when he replaced Spock's brain--TMS v357 SP3. Amazing.

  19. Re:Alien Abductions [and the God Helmet] by Ocelot+Wreak · · Score: 3, Interesting
    The Dr. you are referring to was Dr. Michael Persinger from Laurentian University in Canada, whose lab has been doing this kind of research work for a number of years. He has built a "God Helmet" and a newer model called "the octopus" that allows the subject to experience the euphoria of god-like experiences, and the strange effect of time slowing down.

    A previous Slashdot story "Where God Lives In Your Brain" covered most of his work on extremely low frequency electromagnetic field effects.

    --
    "I figure you're here 'cause you need some whacko who's willing to stick his finger in the fan. So who are we helping?
  20. Those are microwaves! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    This isn't a DC magnet, this is a brief impulse. Well, a changing magnetic field _is_ RF radiation. That's the definition. So they are sending a big rf spike into your head. A spike big enough to induce a current in neurons, which aren't exactly as conductive as copper wire.

    Of course, if they described it that way, they might get sued.

  21. reminds me of... by Jru+Hym · · Score: 1
    --
    This lobster was alive when it hit the frothy, boiling water.
  22. the truth? by C21 · · Score: 1
    "well, with the possible exception of hideous crimes"
    you're forgetting about the percent (suprisingly large) of people that commit so called hideous crimes that actually believe they did not in fact commit the crime. Insanity is such a bypass of polygraph tests...
    --
    this is not a sig.
  23. reminds me by theonecalledmike · · Score: 1

    this reminds me of a leacture about the new mri machines.. i think a 7 tesla magnetic field. if you walk too fast in the room when its operating, you get dizzy. i belive this is due to currents induced in nurons. also, the person in the machine sees flashes of light because of the same reason.

  24. Paranoid? Here, let me help. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you think cell phones are bad, let me fill you in on a couple of things.

    First, you are getting more EM radiation right now reading this off your CRT than you get off any cell phone.

    Second, do you know how X-Rays are produced? A big ass cathode ray tube. Yep, CRT bubby. You are catching a beauty x-ray tan right now.

    Third, there is NO evidence that EM radiation at any level or x-rays at normal levels of incidence contribute to cancer. None. Zero. You are worried about nothing. Commonly known as paranoia!

    Feel better?

  25. downsides by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Funny

    Side effects include constant urge to face North.

  26. Re: the God Helmet -- predicted! by Randym · · Score: 1
    He has built a "God Helmet" ... that allows the subject to experience the euphoria of god-like experiences...

    "In the future, there will be a machine which will produce a religious experience in the user."
    -- David Byrne, "In The Future", Music For the Knee Plays, 1984

    --
    DNA is a Turing machine. You, however, being dynamic and emergent, are not.