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Kazaa Fights Back

Cracula writes "CNET is reporting that tonight Kazaa filed a lawsuit against the major record labels and Hollywood studios, asserting that they are attempting to stifle a legitimate and potentially profit-cutting business model. Sharman Networks (owner of Kazaa) says that their model is fundmentally different than Napster because their major goal is to make money off their companion program Altnet that delivers authorized, paid content. While this may sound like a shot in the dark, last year a federal judge actually ruled that the record labels' current efforts to provide online access to their music may run afoul of anti-trust laws. Kazaa may actually have a hope."

15 of 378 comments (clear)

  1. Illegal by altaic · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I always thought sabotaging a company's network was illegal. But what, a week ago, there was an artical on /. about a company devoted only to doing that. I'm glad Kazaa is standing up for itself, even though I hate them for their spyware.

    1. Re:Illegal by altaic · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "If they don't, they lose."

      True, but up until this point, no one's said squat about the RIAA overtly polluting P2P networks. It's nice to know someone out there is actively fighting the RIAA, rather than passively/reactively altering their network design to compensate for the abuse.

      The legality of the content is irrespective of the case of network sabotage, and should not be considered. Tangent: correct me if I'm wrong, but a copyrighted material may be hosted on a network, only if it's the only copy one owns. Then, it's permissible for other owners of the same material to download it. I don't recall what the new laws WRT the transfer of such material have to say, but I believe they'd have to first collect evidence that one has possession of the material, and then prove you don't own the respective licenses. The first part of which is nearly impossible, short of breaking down one's door with a warrant. Transfer logs I don't think would be sufficient, since one may be providing a workstation for someone with said licenses. For that matter, one may be providing remote storage for such a person. It's a tricky matter at best.

  2. Didn't the Terms and Conditions say ... by webdevcoder · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Isn't kazaa not supposed to be responsible for the content, but only for the software which was "intended" to distribute legal paid content?

    1. Re:Didn't the Terms and Conditions say ... by MisterMook · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No, they aren't like state owned roads because government property has clear standards and expectations of use and safety, along with a bunch of other things.

      It's more like a great big mall. What Kazaa argues is that they designed their mall so that transactions could take place and nothing more, then added legitimate businesses into their mall when they were told that it had become a haven of thieves. Their suit is based on the thought that they now have millions of potential customers in their mall and even when they point that fact out to the big music industry sorts they get dismissed as the mall that has thieves in it.

      I think it's probably true that the music idustry has been less than forthcoming in any talks that might lead to releasing copyright licences for any use other than what they control with their dirty, money-grubbing fists. I think it's also true that you'd have to be an imbecile not to realize and take into account that Kazaa profits from illegal filesharing.

      The question is, if a cartel of music industry companies refuses outright to let a potential retail store sell it's product in favor of their own retail stores is that anti-trust? It might be if you can successfully argue that there is no business model that could succeed in music retail without access to those catalogs. They're squashing competition by maintaining a stranglehold on the copyrights, just like Disney might be preventing new Disney's by buying their copyright extensions.

      Kazaa's case would be easier if they were in a physical sense a mall, since there is no safety issue I fail to see how a mall should be liable for the actions of it's customers no matter how much it profits from those customers. In a real mall the retailers don't try and arrest the mall when customers shoplift. Even if the mall had no security it wouldn't be about arresting the mall for failure to provide a lawful environment. Maybe they should try to condemn Kazaa...

  3. Money question by josh+crawley · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Where's Kazaa getting all this money to throw around lawsuits? And dont tell me that Ad's fully support clusters of multi-homed high speed machines...

    1. Re:Money question by Alsee · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I don't think they'll be able to show convincingly that they actually have a viable business model

      Hmm, where have I seen the phrase "viable business model" before?

      Oh yeah, it was the Microsoft anti-trust settlement.

      Can someone please explain to me since when does the "viability" of a bussiness model have ANYTHING to do with legal/illegal or your rights?

      Someone can have a bussiness model of planting quarters and hoping to harvest dollars when they grow into trees. He has a right to go on planting quarters until he runs out of quarters and goes broke.

      Courts can consider the legality of planting quarters, but they have no place considering whether a bussiness model is viable.

      -

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      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  4. Either way... by Kirby-meister · · Score: 5, Interesting
    ...nobody wins.

    If Kazaa wins, the record industry will probably just get more primed for industry-standard DRM.

    If the record industry wins, another 5 Kazaa's will pop up.

  5. My feeling by batobin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It seems to me that this argument basically admits what the music industry is getting at: that Kazaa enables and almost condones the illegal music trade. I'm speaking straightly from a legal perspective. I know better than to try to get into the philosophical debate. :)

    But just take a look at the issue. Let's say an auto parts store opens its doors. One department is legit. It buys new parts and sells them to customers. The second department is a kind of swap meet where enthusiasts may come and trade their wares. Some of the enthusiasts in this second department trade stolen car parts.

    So some organization sues the auto parts store. Maybe they're an organization of car owners that are sick of their bumpers and headlights getting stolen by car punks. They bring a case to the courts and say, "We're sick of this auto store making an environment conducive to stealing."

    Kazaa, and the auto parts store, reply that their major goal is to make money off their legitimate department. They reply that their business model is being impaired by such an atrocious lawsuit.

    Is this fair? I'm not sure. I'm not a lawyer. Something seems fishy about it to me though...

  6. The solution is an iron fist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Look, I'll be honest. I, like most other people here, have downloaded pirated music from the internet. Its seductively easy, and if you have a nice broadband connection, really quick. The sound quality on the 128k MP3 format may not be "audiophile" quality but for those of us using regular computer speakers, and not $6000 Bose systems, its just fine. Just like with gay sex and open-source software, its easy to think that just because its fun and enjoyable, pirating music is okay, and should be permitted. But thats the wrong answer. Despite all the half-baked rationalizations cooked up by piracy advocates, no one can really refute the truth spoken by the recording industry: Sooner or later, the widespread distribution of near-perfect digital copies will destroy the market for commercial recordings, and make the production of the very product consumers seem so eager to pirate impossible.

    Just take a look at the music you download now. Sure, you may occasionally and self-righteously download the occasional legitimate "teaser" track released legally, or some free songs from no-talent "independent" artists who are giving away their wares because no one in their right mind would pay for them. But you know that almost all of what you download was recorded, produced, distributed, and marketed by the very recording companies you claim to despise, and would never have been committed to disc were there not the possibility of profiting from exclusive distribution rights to their product. Every time you download their songs illegally, you are decreasing the probability that such things will be available in the future.

    Anybody who cares about the system of intellectual property which has made the american entertainment and information technology industries so dynamic, and enjoys their fine products, from Windows XP to the "Lord of the Rings" movies to your new cell phone with built-in games and internet access, should understand the necessity of crushing Kazaa once and for all. We know that what they are doing is reprehensible, and moreover, as the Napster case and every successive suit against online piracy services has shown, illegal.

    But Kazaa is worse than that. They have deliberately created an organizational structure, similar to the front organizations used by organized crime, to continue to operate and profit from their misdeeds in spite of legal sanction from every civilized country in which they have been sued. And like any crime ring, they have gone to great length to extract as much money from their "customers" as possible, using the enticing lure of pirated music to force paid advertising and virus-like spyware on the computers of their users. But in this modern era of international trade agreements such as the WTO, no one is beyond the reach of the law, and I believe that Kazaa can be crushed. They can be submerged beneath a tidal wave of litigation, until one day no internet provider will dare risk allowing them access. Any country which offers them safe haven should be considered a rogue nation and isolated internationally, and considered a sponsor of terrorism. If the world can beat Kazaa, it will send a strong message that theft is wrong, and allow the content producers to lead the way into the beginning of the true information age.

  7. Re:that makes no sense by parliboy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Is the corollary to this that both sides will be willing to concede that there is no legal use for KaZaa lite? Both sides squeezing the middle out?

    --
    "You're never ready, just less unprepared."
  8. Re:Big legal mistake... by praksys · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Again: this is makes no sense whatsoever. Anyone who owns a copyright is entitled under copyright law to legally defend that copyright, music (monopoly) / industry included...especially if the distributor doesn't legally have permission (from the copyright owner) to distribute the music...permission would include ownership of the distributed media or rights granted by the owner to distribute the copyrighted material. Neither case exists for Kazaa.

    This does make sense in fact. You are not allowed to use intellectual property rights to protect a monopoly (other than the monopoly expressly granted by the ip-right obviously). So for example, IBM was not allowed to use its BIOS copyrights to defend a monoply on PC hardware. Courts can infact void intellectual property rights which are misused in this way.

    It sounds like Kazaa is arguing that copyright owners are in fact a monopoly (presumably Kazaa is arguing that the Music industry is trying to maintain a monopoly in the online retail market), and that they are using their ip to defend this monopoly (that is they are suing anyone who tries to compete in the online retail market for copyright infringement), which would in fact be illegal.

    An interesting feature of this strategy is that it may force any copyright infringement cases to be put on hold until after the anti-trust case is resolved - which may well take 10 years or more (the IBM case it was not reolved until long after it had ceased to matter).

  9. SuperBowl XXXVIII? by Cinematique · · Score: 5, Interesting

    On one side, we have the Recording Industry Association of America. On the other side, we have Sharman Networks. Lopsided match, to say the least.

    Maybe it's the American in me... but I hope the underdog wins.

    Somehow, I feel that the future of computing as we know it is going to be decided in large part due to the outcome of this matchup and I for one am tired of waiting for the outcome. I'm tired of the constant rehashing of the legality of file sharing. I'm tired of the false numbers and statistics spun as proof that P2P is the sole culprit for declining music revenue.

    Most of all... I'm tired of the threats of a DRM-enabled world.

    I'm a music fanatic. I love all kinds of music. I used to buy music, but when Napster was taken away from me, I stopped.

    When I pay to see concerts now, at least I take cautious comfort in the idea that the artists see a larger percentage of my twenty dollars. I hope, anyway.

  10. Re:Wake up and smell the plot by Powercntrl · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Nope, it won't do anything. The same thought was behind harsh anti-drug sentancing, and it made no difference. Anyone can still get pot, anytime.

    Just like the war on drugs, it's not so much a tactic to stop piracy outright as it is to make the general public think twice about it. Those who insist on pirating without getting caught will still find ways to do it.

    Right now, the situation on P2P networks is like being able to go to a crowded shopping mall, shouting "I want to buy pot!" and many dealers come running over to you, eager to sell with no notice whatsoever by any members of law enforcement.

    Dealing drugs and casual (for private use) music/video/software piracy cannot really be compared. The man selling drugs on the street is most likely well aware of the situation he's putting himself in and is willing to risk capture because he needs the money he's making for one reason or another (addiction, debt, etc.). The man with an open file share has a lot more to lose by being jailed and gains nothing of value by keeping his shared directory open.

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    ---
    DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
  11. Re:As outlandish as Sharman's desires may seem... by glesga_kiss · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I hope they start paying some royalty to the starving artists

    LOL, are you trying to be funny? You know that the artist will see little of these royalties. It would probably be similar to the amount they get per-CD, that is, not much.

  12. Kazaa my win, but users will loose. by nurb432 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They will most likely prove their case and continue to exist, perhaps in reduced form.

    The problem is that now the RIAA/etc are planning on going after users.. who will be brave enogh to use kazaa, etc.

    Once the first high profile case produces jail time for some average joe downloader, useage will drop off the map.

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    ---- Booth was a patriot ----