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Pentagon and Wi-Fi Deal Reached

Posted by Hemos on from the making-things-work dept.

byteCoder writes "CNet reports that the US Military and the Wi-Fi manufacturers have struck an agreement on reducing the interference on military radars by Wi-Fi equipment. Basically, future wireless equipment will detect the presence of military radar and not transmit over the top of it. Additionally, as part of the compromise, defense officials will endorse the doubling of the number of allowed wireless frequencies--thus opening more spectrum to wireless users (as long as the FCC and Congress agree)."

20 of 120 comments (clear)

  1. Win-Win by Gallifrey · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is a great example of a win-win scenario. Seems perfectly reasonable to me and the results can benefit everyone. More frequencies, more channels, easier to cover a building, etc...

  2. Cooperation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    What a novel idea.

  3. Just what I've always wanted by mfago · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... a military radar detector.

    1. Re:Just what I've always wanted by Cy+Guy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      With detectors comes jammers

      Similarly, just by mimicking the signal of the military radar you could launch a Denial of Service attack against anyone trying to use Wi-Fi.

      It would seem this compromise results in a serious trade-off of National security versus the security of the users' own systems. It could end up being a nasty tool for industrial sabotage if you could shut down networking at competitor's facility from a van parked outside. As a result, it could limit the acceptance of Wi-Fi as a replaced for wired LANs - and keep it as a mobile only technology.

      (I know a lot of supposition went into that, but heck, I'm only posting to SlashDot).

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  4. Who wins? by PseudonymousCoward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Will WiFi equipment be able to tell the difference between military radar, police department radar, and other forms of non-WiFi radiation in the relevant frequency ranges? Will WiFi stop working if I wardrive near a police car? Will it stop working if a police car drives by my house?

    Does this "agreement" allow anyone who wants to suppress the use of WiFi to turn on a device that simulates 'military radar"?

    Just wondering.
    .

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    1. Re:Who wins? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      No,no, and no. Radar is a single frequency(most of the time) and hence a narrow bandwidth. The wireless units would be very easy to make so they don't transmit on a preditermined frenquency when it is active. They already do that for colision detection. The WIFI unit will still work; just not on that channel. Police radar is not near the ISM band. So it should have no effect on this change in operation. If it did they would have been at the barganing table too. DOS'ing your WIFI is not a concern of the military, that's YOUR problem. These WIFI units are FCC part 15; menning that if someone(with a leagle transmitter )interfears with your transmission then you have NO recource. But if you interfear with some one else on the ISM band that has a higher FCC Part XX licence(Part 15 is the lowest licence) then YOUR responsible to fix it before you can transmit again. That is if the FCC raid on your house/shop leaves you with any equiptment to use afterwards.

      BTW: I just know a little about this. I would do a search on google for -- ISM licence 802.11b "part15" -- and see what you get

      IKICS- IKnowICan'tSpell.

  5. What about military use? by shekondar · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I guess this means the military won't be using 802.11 anytime soon... It would be a little tough for them to use it if their own radars keep turning it off!

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  6. Hmm... by MrBadbar · · Score: 4, Funny

    Saddam: "I wonder how close those Americans are... I know, break out the access points!"

  7. hmmm.... by Bendebecker · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Isn't that a little dangerous for military secrecy? I mean, anyone can now take a wireless transmitter and modify it to detect military radar. As technology grows more and more connected, will we someday see people remotely using the cellphone transmitter on a military base or any sensitive area in order to look for flaws and holes in radar coverage? Just a thought.

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    1. Re:hmmm.... by jandrese · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If people can easily modifiy consumer equipment to detect these radar signature, than no foreign nation is going to have trouble building someing that does exactly the same thing. In fact most nations already do build devices like this, especially on fighter planes. Most of them are much more sophisticated, featuring much better sensitivity than consumer equipment along with direction finding ability (there are even missiles that seek on RADAR emissions).

      Personally, I'm estatic over the prospect of expanding the total number of completely independent channels from three to five or six.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    2. Re:hmmm.... by $nyper · · Score: 4, Informative

      "Isn't that a little dangerous for military secrecy?" ---Bendebecker---

      Nope, the ability and technology to detect radar has been around for along time, decades. The most comon example of this technology in found military aircraft where it is used to determine whether or not the aircraft is being tracked by radar. Most governments have this capability but the biggest tactical factor just depends on the level of their technology.

      For example Iraqi ground mobile anti-aircraft missiles facilities are usually not able to aquire radar target on a U.S. F-15 and shoot it down before the U.S. F-15 can detect the source of the radar transmission and blow it up. This is not always the case as the Iraqi's have been desperately trying to aquire new technologies which sometimes allows them to get off a lucky shot. It all depends on the level of their technology.

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  8. Lawrence Lessig's Position by truthsearch · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A chapter in Lawrence Lessig's latest book, The Future of Ideas, covers the topic of spectrum as a controlled commons. Many feel with modern technology it should be de-regulated and simply sold to any of the highest bidders. Interference with military transmissions has been one key arguing point. His book discusses it well and raises the argument for easing government control of the spectrum commons. I highly recommend the book for anyone interesting in the ideas of the internet as a commons and how it should or should not be controlled.

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  9. Should be interesting by jcoy42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I live just over a mile from DMAFB, and I can't help but wonder how well my in-house wireless will react to this. I'm less than 300 ft. from a road military vehicles frequent, although presumably without radar turned on.

    Perhaps it's time to grab an 802.11g access point before they are all military radar friendly. Or will the long term result be a ban on non-friendly access points?

    I suppose time will tell. It has a habit of doing that.

    --
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  10. Re:Mixed results? by lucifuge31337 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    the military getting into consumer products, seems bad in general

    WHAT? Do you live in a cave?

    TONS of consumer technology has its roots in military-developed technology. You wouldn't be able to waste your time on /. if it weren't for a military research project.

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  11. Who wins? Not me, apparently. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Will WiFi stop working if I wardrive near a police car? Will it stop working if a police car drives by my house?

    Since the cops have a speed trap right behind my house (about 30 feet from my kitchen wall), it looks like I'm going to have to cover my entire house with a Faraday cage.

  12. Frequency for Radar by Orne · · Score: 5, Informative

    Last time i checked, police departments should not be broadcasting in the military spectrum.. second, houses don't tend to speed, so there's no reason why the police should beam their radar guns at your house. Third, even if they did, it wouldn't do anything.

    Information on police radar guns: "The granddaddy of systems is X band radar... X band operates on the narrow channel from 10.500 to 10.550 gigahertz (GHz)... K band appeared in the seventies and quickly became popular in its deadliest form: a hand held gun featuring an instant on switch. K band operates on a higher-frequency channel from 24.050 to 24.250 GHz... In 1989, photo radar appeared on the scene, and it was bad news for motorists--it operated on a frequency that was undetectable by existing radar detectors. The FCC set up a channel for photo-radar from 34.200 to 34.400 GHz, which lies within the wide Ka band... Which brings us to the Stalker, the latest wrinkle in hand-held radar guns. It operates on the Ka band anywhere from 34.200 to 35.200 GHz."

    Here is another informative article on how the Wi-Fi is colliding with the millitary radar, down at 5 GHz side of the spectrum, specifically 5.150-5.350 GHz.

    Thus, police radar should never affect Wi-Fi, and vice versa.

  13. Upcoming .. by AftanGustur · · Score: 4, Interesting


    Which electronic magazine (or Phrack ?) will be the first to publish "Build your own WiFi scrambler/silencer for under 20 bucks" article.

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  14. Investigate Best Buy! by nick_davison · · Score: 3, Funny

    reducing the interference on military radars by Wi-Fi equipment

    Investigate Best Buy! It's kind of pathetic when all Saddam and the rest of the United States' enemies need to do is pop down to Best Buy and buy a wireless hub to protect themselves from the military might of world's largest army.

    All the Iraqi airforce needs to do now is jetison wireless hubs and GeForce FX cards and they'll be immune to both radar and heat-seeking missiles.

    What's next? CAT-5 cable found to defeat stealth technology?

  15. The article says none of that! by djrogers · · Score: 5, Informative

    Basically, future wireless equipment will detect the presence of military radar and not transmit over the top of it. Additionally, as part of the compromise, defense officials will endorse the doubling of the number of allowed wireless frequencies--thus opening more spectrum to wireless users


    All of the above is supposition on the submitter's part, and NONE of it is referenced in teh article. First of all, the article says

    a resolution that establishes a new radio frequency threshold for products using unlicensed radio spectrum--primarily Wi-Fi products
    >
    Nothing about 'detecting' military radar, and nothing about shutting down transmission when it does. Next up we have Pentagon endorsement of the Boxer/Allen Broaband Jumpstart Act which will open up an add'l 255MHz in the 5GHz band. Well, the article doesn't say anything about that either - all we've got is this quote:

    "Now that this technical issue has been resolved, Congress should proceed to enact the Boxer-Allen bill,"

    Which is from One of the bill's sponsors (Boxer) - not the DOD!

    Oh, and just in case you were wondering - None of this applies to existing 2.4GHz wireless gear...
    --
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  16. whole new meaning to wardriving? by nlinecomputers · · Score: 3, Funny

    Does this mean that you'll have Iraq solders running around with Pringle's cans scouting the radar sites out for Scuds to hit?

    Note to tank drivers: If you have a circle'd W chalked on your tank you've been painted.

    INCOMEING....

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