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PATRIOT II Legislation Leaked
Buck Mulligan writes "The Center for Public Integrity reports that it has obtained a copy of PATRIOT II -- a huge law enforcement power grab that is intended to build on the USA PATRIOT Act. It's called the 'Domestic Security Enhancement Act.' CPI says it would increase domestic intelligence gathering and surveillance while reducing judicial review and public access to information. For more on the first PATRIOT Act, see the EPIC page."
It's kind of sad that the government actually needs more power than what's provided by the first Patriot Act. It's also ironic that it was called the Patriot Act, because it doesn't make me feel very patriotic...
"To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit." -Stephen Hawking
For if we don't we deserve what we get, and anyone voting to keep the current Bush administration, must be insane.
3000 dead over past 2 years, still no free Palestinians, still
Privacy is not for the boring. Those of us with colorful lives want privacy. But if you're lame and boring you dont really need privacy, and dont care about those who value it.
Unfortunately the majority of people dont want privacy except _maybe_ in the bedroom.
Apparently terrorists have tragically gone free due to the inability of investigators to pull up their credit records.
I also like the bit about how the use of encryption in the commission of a crime would be a felony. Recursion anyone? Sounds like a blank check search warrant on anyone using PGP to me.
Now, If we could only get the British gov to stop proposing similar dumb laws (ie. EUCD) that make the EU look more like the USA.
If this one goes through, I've got yet another reason to avoid going to the USA and working/living there.
Okay, the odds that this legislation would get passed right now is really slim. I mean, without the pressing fear of imminent terrorism, there's no motivation for it. So, I'm wondering if the DOJ's intent in drafting this was to keep it on the shelf until the next terrorist attack happens. Then they would come out and explain that they couldn't stop it because they didn't have all the powers they need, and conveniently they'd have legislation ready to roll.
I'm very glad this has come out at a time when our heads are mostly screwed on straight so we can shoot it down in the light of day.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
Why do you think electing a Democrat would make any difference?
Remember what Sen. Feingold said about a *return* to an era of invasion of privacy and harrassment.
In 20's and 30's america labor leaders and other troublemakers could expect to be spied on, harrassed, framed for this and that (John Steinbeck never went to a hotel alone for fear of
being framed for rape).
In the post-war era it wasn't so bad, but even then there was McCarthyism and spying was done on suspected communists that'd raise quite a few eyebrows now. It's really only since the civil rights era that Americans have come to expect the very high level of privacy and fairness that our generation has enjoyed.
Rather than sinking into a new and unexpected bad patch, it's more that along good patch may be ending.
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
My physical body is in America... but really, there are places I'd prefer to be where my heart is. Canada, where are you? Am I allowed to pass through the Iron Border? Or does America have to seize my computer at the border for illegal MP3s, PGP encryption, movie trailers and more?
I can't stand the way the USG is handling this. If Americans would stand up for their rights instead of being in a stupor over "terrorism", we could get our hard-earned rights back. One of my Canadian friends from online has called me an honorary Canadian and is offering me safe haven should the USG ever come after me lol.
Enough rambling... go talk to friends and more, print out pamphlets, write your Congresscritters, do something constructive towards repealing and destroying these evil policies.
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
Of course this was a popular quotation for Timothy McVeigh. The second part of the quote: "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
Makes one think.
What is music when you despise all sound?
Keep in mind that the alleged document is draft legislation. It may be that everyone has put what they want in it, and it will be tempered down before it is handed to Congress.
It also might be yet another proposal where a group proposes something insane in order to gain more minor consessions. If so, hopefully Congress will recognize when someone keeps crying "wolf" that the wolf may not be there.
But what if the "wolf" does come along and someone says "if we had X, we could have caught them before this disaster." What should Congress do then?
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This is a wakeup call for EVERYONE OF US IN THE UNITED STATES to write to our congressmen and women. Do so in a sincere, intelligent manner so we can make sure this gets shot down before we really feel the brunt of it.
That's what happens when you sit idly by watch the Nine Gavelers in Black give the Ring of Power to George Orwell Bush. He protects America by destroying it.
Funny that we would fight communism for 50 years only to see the eastern block fall and America gleefully embrace the oppressive Big Brother powers of a secret government.
At this point I have to wonder if some of the more ultra right-wingers like Ashcroft are arranging global annihilation so they can see their biblical end game fantasies come true.
America has been a "police state" for the last several decades... Everything our society does is regulated, the Feds have power that would be abhorrent to the framers of the constitution... They've been doing it for years covertly, in small ways... the real truth of the matter is that the US public doesn't know, and for the most part, doesn't WANT to know, just what the government routinely gets away with. As long as they can shop at the Gap, drive their SUV's, chat on their cellphones, Check their email at AOL, and watch the latest network tv drivel, they're happy.
Now at least the govt is being OPEN about its facist tendencies.. which makes it easier to resist, if anyone is left who has the heart. Ben Franklin said it best, I think... something to the effect of "Anyone who would trade freedom for security deserves neither."... And history will show, gets neither as well.
Oh, how Babylon the mighty has fallen.
In the future, things will get worse becuase we allowed future abuses. This government was set up to prevent it, and now in the name of security, we are giving up the important checks and balances. These last 20 years have done more damage to these than at any other time in history (the WW2 damage was temporary, these are permanant). BTW, folks, clinton has been part of these stripping of rights as well.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
You are totally missing the point.
Sure, you can do whatever you want now that you did pre-patriot. But once you start allowing your government to errode your freedoms, you are going to run into problems. What if Partiot Act V includes restrictions on computers that are on non trusted platforms. Suddenly you become a 'terrorist' if you dont want to play nice with Microsofts latest behemoth of an operating system. But because you didnt stand up for your rights and your freedoms back when they werent taking away anything that affected you directly, there is no one left to stand up and say 'Wait, this is wrong'
There is a famous saying that goes:
'In Germany, they first came for the communists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the Jews and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics. I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak up.'
I am not trying to compare the USA to Nazi Germany, in spite of the current administrations seeming desire to take away some of the fundamental rights that are entrenched in your legal system. I am just saying that if one keeps their head in the sand, you'll never see the lion sneaking up to bite your backside.
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), Letter to Josiah Quincy, Sept. 11, 1773.
But what is the USA going to do about him ?
i can tell you to save you even thinking
absolutely nothing
heil himler
BE AFRAID. BE VERY, VERY AFRAID.
I'm far from being considered a "political" guy, but this absolutely scares the shit out of me. DNA database??? Prohibition of Disclosure of Terrorism Investigation Detainee Information??? Sounds to me like a blank check for the gov't to do whatever the fuck they please. I'm trying not to be paranoid, but the people spearheading this seem to represent everything our forefathers stood against.
Let's pray that this thing never gets passed.
"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned for SEGA. ..."
Surely at some point the provisions restricting judicial oversight become a slam dunk case for overturning due to fact the Constitution laid out the judicial system? Frankly, I thought the first Patriot act went overboard with that. Congress can't just tell the Court system to go stuff it.
I also don't understand why... well, I do, but for rhetorical purposes let's say I don't... the need for security necessitates less oversight by the court system. Once you've got the guy in custody, what's he going to do to the country while rotting away in jail waiting for judicial review? Is Congress seriously concerned that the judge is going to just let a criminal go? They're not in that business, assuming the government has enough evidence to back up their case. Oh, hey, think maybe the government wants the right to make wild accusations?
Sometimes, for laws like this, I wish you could bring a case before the Supreme Court for judicial review without an actual complainent. I understand the reasoning for not allowing this and generally agree with it, but in cases like this it's sad you have to wait for someone to be screwed over, and willing to spend years of their life fighting back, before the law might be overturned.
Why do you think Bush is poking his fingers into the eyes of the Arab world? Why do you think we keep getting upgraded to "orange alerts"?
Creating fear and starting wars gives politicians power.
Who would dare oppose something called the Patriot Act? That's great fodder for political campaigns ("John Congressman says he loves America, but he voted to raise taxes and even supported terrorists by voted against the Patriot Act").
A vote against the "Patriot Act" is a vote for Osama!
This kind of slow, incremental wearing away of human rights is exactly what happened in Nazi Germany.
People need to wake up and understand that there are ALWAYS people who want to disenfranchise the rest of us. The wolf is ALWAYS at the door. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
There are three things that people can do.
1) Vote
2) Join the ACLU
3) Joine the NRA
The reason for the first is obvious. The reasons for the second and third are that the ACLU is a strong champion of individual rights, even if they are part of the loony left. The NRA is of course a strong champion of individual rights as well, even if they are part of the loony right. I'm a member of both and give generously to them.
Laws like this can only come to pass when our representatives in congress are not representing us. The only way that situation can arise is if the voters in general have not been holding them accountable. Any legislator who would put forward legislation intended to deny us our rights is a traitor because they have broken their vow to defend and protect the constitution. Should we re-elect such a person? I'd rather elect a pig straight from someone's barn to office than see someone like that remain in power. The american political landscape is dominated by party politics and this is a big part of the problem. People will vote for someone because of their party, or will vote for a party because that is what they've always done, or because they've been suckered by the propaganda that both major parties just love to spew out. It is sad to see so many people led around by the nose and irritating to have to hear them regurgitate the propaganda that they've swallowed down with relish. Look past the propaganda and bullshit. Be willing to vote for a different party. Become informed about issues that matter and the party's agenda on these issues. If people would do this then a lot of this kind of bullshit would cease to exist.
Lee
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
Even the Germanys don't want anything to do with America, isn't that a huge sign?? A country that had been bent on world domination for so long, doesn't even want to touch the USA with a 10 foot pole. You might wonder if they know something based on experiance. Hell, don't jump in bed with a madman trying to turn the country into a policed state!.
.. was he.. damn America is full of stupid people..
The USA is passing laws for unlimited gov't control and secrect agencies. People disappear for no good reason or explaination and get deported (least they aren't gassing them on the way out, they wait till they get them to their home country and then just bomb the shit of it.. All's fair in love and war.) And all this time anyone who doesn't think this is a good idea is called unpatriotic and an america hater. I do beleive this all happened before, started with a guy named Hitler.
You know, say what you want about Clinton, but in the 8 years he was in office, there wasn't one major war.. Vote in two Bush's and you get a war for oil everytime.. oh but wait I guess the second Bush wasn't really voted in
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
w HM Kl0QAoKlQAnjqn
- ----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Hash: SHA1
Because I am paranoid.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 8.0
iQA/AwUBPkVNY1or0GSY5Ro/EQL3gQCgvjlcARWqEjOJkz2
dnQfZn8CVrvcIClgKrVNX/Vo
=0uHK
If you want to e-mail me, use my PGP Key.
I would love to know what members of Congress wrote what part of the bill. Of course, the guy who admitted sticking a 'Can't sue this drug company for causing birth defects' in the completely UNrelated, mis-named Patriot Act has got off scott-free - no media attetion, no questions about conflict of interest.
Where are the angry voters? I read (online, ironically) that it is thought that people like the ones who post to the YRO stories spend all of their outrage posting to discussion boards and clicking polls.
I am guilty of that as anyone else, "Ahh. George Bush IS coke snorting dumbass who has more command of swallowing pretzels than the english language."
I feel better, and job well done. Well I'm preaching to the choir. We need reforms in the US and quick - sadly, it seems the most outspoken Geeks are the most insular ones and don't vote, organize, or spread the word.
We need someone charismatic who can get the message across to regular Joe.
I'd do it, but I'm watching last night's Farscape on my Linux PVR while posting to the Our Government Sucks, But I'm Comfortable With Complaining About It, So Back To Buffy And Let Someone Else Handle It board. /Irony
There's a bit of a fallacy in your argument, dear sir. Let me explain:
Take, for example, the new federal law that all foreign nationals from certian countries be required to register with the government: several news artivles about how this process has revealed that many people have been detained. Not a problem... except they're being detained without the right to a lawyer; habeus corpus has been suspended for them (they do not know what evidence and what crimes they are being charged with -- something out of Kafka's "The Trial", I believe); and currently reporters can't find out who's being held, why they're being held, or even how many are being held.
This extension of the PATRIOT Act makes these things legal. Which means they could charge you, and not only could we not know why, or if, you are on trial -- you wouldn't even be able to get a lawyer.
Next, let me admit, you're right, I haven't had any civil liberties restricted directly that I know of. Let me stress that last point: you talk of wiretapping. I wouldn't know if someone was tapping my lines, because with the PATRIOT Act, if I was labeled a terrorist, it wouldn't be private or public knowledge; it would be completely unknown, as the request would go to the United States Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. Again, I reference this Real Audio file from This American Life, it gives the details. This court meets in secret; it's documents are not published and not for review. So not only would you not know if you were being wiretapped; no one would.
Finally, if I had been hauled off to jail out of the blue, I probably wouldn't have access to a computer to check on Slashdot, and be able to read and/or post to your question; jails of this sort tend not to let people have access to computers.
I'm not worried that they're coming for me today; I'm worried that if, in the future, I expouse beliefs that are opposed to what the government believes, I will become labeled a "terrorist", and will have my rights unilaterally suspended. What happens to my neighbor this week can happen to me next week -- so I want what's fair for *everyone*.
Whatever you do... don't read this.
Section 404: Use of Encryption to Conceal Criminal Activity.
In recent years, terrorists and other criminals have begun to use encryption technology to conceal their communications when planning and conducting criminal activity. Title 18 of the United States Code currently contains no provision on the use of encrypted communications to plan or facilitate crimes. This proposal would amend federal law to provide that any person who, during the commission of or the attempt to commit a federal felony, knowingly and willfully uses encryption technology to conceal any incriminating communication or information relating to that felony, be imprisoned for an additional period of not fewer than 5 years. These additional penalties are warranted to deter the use of encryption technology to conceal criminal activity. In addition, it does not address the issue of whether software companies and internet service providers should give law enforcement access to "keys" for the purposes of decoding intercepted communications.
"Attempt" to download a copyrighted work from Kazaa and email someone about it using PGP = 5+ years in federal prison.
Ironic that it is section "404".
I don't have any problems with any of the key points brought up in the article, when applied to terrorism. As I read through the sections thought to be the most egregious, I'm just nodding along going "mm hmm", "sounds good", "hell yeah", and "why aren't we already doing this?"
The only problem, of course, is who defines "terrorism"?
Think about that for a while.
How many people had to die for freedom, because appearantly it only takes 3000 deaths to take it back. More people die every year of the flu, but I don't see acts of congress trying to prevent flu as serious as these. Aids will kill more people this year, but the government isn't sinking the kind of money they used to fight Afghanistan to find a cure. This isn't about American lives, it's about changing our govenment to a police state. We're going to war with Iraq for 2 reasons. #1 oil, #2 to try to keep Bush's popularity up amongst the red-necks. He's the most horrid president that the US has ever seen. Even if his policies tend to show that he wants to rid the US from dependance on oil, he has done so much to harm freedom and the economy. From his tax plan to having the DOJ pretty much drop the MS issue, he's screwed the economy to the point of practically no return. The job market is getting thinner. He has allowed or worked to create many laws that break the fundamental rights of Americans. The Patriot Act should be unconstitutional because we are given freedom from unreasonable search and seizures. Don't depend on the courts saving you though, because the whole MS issue has only taught us that they can't be trusted either.
Karma Clown
what a sad world we live in, when someone like me, someone who is generally anti-political, someone who despises the self-serving two choice system we have today, can say right now that he'll vote for whoever the crappy Democrat candidate will be in the next election. George Bush is that repugnant.
The fools who voted for Dubya can consider themselves responsible for this steady erosion of our rights, and the steady consolidation of power by Big Brother. But hey, at least the economy is humming right along! Oh, wait.....
Constitution 2.0
We the Government...
It's remarkable how John Ashcroft is the karmic successor to Joseph McCarthy; we're in a modern-day Red Scare, but with a very sympathetic administration and a apathetic public. The potential for (further) permanent damage to Americans' civil liberties is very real and very frightening.
Am I exaggerating? Well, can you tell them apart?
FWIW, link to ACLU coverage and a Google News search.
Remember the scene in the movie "Minority Report" where the team is searching for the hero - and drop the 'bugs' into the building - and everyone has to stop what they are doing and assume the postion to get scanned.
Its coming. When Federal Agents come knocking on your door because an electronic filter decides that your purchase of certain books, your web browsing propensities, and some people you met in passing at the coffee shop (caught on video) - adds up to something dangerous (to the state), and the agents don't need a search warrant to invade your privacy and tear apart your home in search of something that isn't there.
The NSA was profiling peace activists and human rights activists during the 60s and 70s - intercepting and analyzing their communications during the 1960s. During that time this was abused, and it was stopped for a reason. Now we are starting to do this again - civil rights will suffer. Witch hunts the likes of the communist scare of the 50s will happen in secret as people mysteriously disappear without habeus corpus rights. The government has been removing large amounts of information that was public knowledge a year ago. What else are they doing under the ospices of secret executive orders? Why do we have to give up our rights to protect this country? If something smells bad, it generally means it is bad; this smells bad.
We will probably wake up as a people when things get too unbearable. Hopefully it won't be too late (I have faith in the sense of democratic principles and right and reasonable government by the majority of people when push comes to shove). Just hope you are not one of the Minorities...
Lodragan Draoidh
The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
"When the people fear the government, you have tyranny. When the government fears the people, you have freedom."
- Thomas Paine
This kind of slow, incremental wearing away of human rights is exactly what happened in Nazi Germany.
People need to wake up and understand that there are ALWAYS people who want to disenfranchise the rest of us. The wolf is ALWAYS at the door. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
There are three things that people can do.
1) Vote
2) Join the ACLU
3) Joine the NRA
The reason for the first is obvious. The reasons for the second and third are that the ACLU is a strong champion of individual rights, even if they are part of the loony left. The NRA is of course a strong champion of individual rights as well, even if they are part of the loony right. I'm a member of both and give generously to them.
Laws like this can only come to pass when our representatives in congress are not representing us. The only way that situation can arise is if the voters in general have not been holding them accountable. Any legislator who would put forward legislation intended to deny us our rights is a traitor because they have broken their vow to defend and protect the constitution. Should we re-elect such a person? I'd rather elect a pig straight from someone's barn to office than see someone like that remain in power. The american political landscape is dominated by party politics and this is a big part of the problem. People will vote for someone because of their party, or will vote for a party because that is what they've always done, or because they've been suckered by the propaganda that both major parties just love to spew out. It is sad to see so many people led around by the nose and irritating to have to hear them regurgitate the propaganda that they've swallowed down with relish. Look past the propaganda and bullshit. Be willing to vote for a different party. Become informed about issues that matter and the party's agenda on these issues. If people would do this then a lot of this kind of bullshit would cease to exist.
It looks as if the United States is turning into just another USSR. The irony of the USA becoming its own biggest enemy is stunning. Whatch out for that one party system, its obviously the next step.
Can you say Yes Master like a good totalitarian state citizen?
HTTP/1.1 400
[plugs ears]
BILL CLINTON! BILL CLINTON! BILL CLINTON! BILL CLINTON! BILL CLINTON!!!!!!
Seriously, this is a prime example of what Bush, and especially the MEDIA are doing. Has Bush taken responsibility for ANYTHING? It's been two years and they are still shrieking BILL CLINTON at the top of their lungs anytime something goes wrong. The damned media is STILL obsessing about Bill's wang while Rome burns.
> Ariel Sharon has his ground and air forces ready
> to "secure" the oil derricks this time. And once
> he gets his hands on them, the Jews will have them
> forever.
This is not a racial or religious issue. It is a national and class issue.
The idea that Jews are all bad is nonsense. It is just the Israeli government (like Bush, Blair, Hussein, Bin Laden, the Palestinian suicide bombers and others who use violence inappropriately) who are at fault.
No, it's not premature. It's never too early to start worrying about protecting our civil liberties. You can believe my Congressional representatives are going to be receiving letters and phone calls about this, starting next week.
// TODO: Insert Cool Sig
Bush's New Math!
2003 = 1984
"In order to save our freedom we had to destroy it"
"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."
"He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people, and eat out their substance."
"He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power."
"For depriving us, in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury"
It's all there in the D.O.I ladies and gents, which I consider to be a more important peice of America than the constitution. Maybe we should just change the date on it and send it right to Washington.
People are staying home.
Police are wearing military style uniforms (and acting like the military).
The National Guard is being deployed on a regular basis.
The public is mostly pacified with mindless teebee news and news shows.
And now the US Constitution is being used as toliet paper by the Congress.
Today Iran compared the USA to the old USSR.
I for one do not take this sitting down and hollar loudly; First to the local news opinion section. Then if bad enough I just write to the editors and let them have an ear full. Then I write Congress but a letter in the local media has much more effect than a letter to the person you didn't vote for last election.
Do something, anything would be good.
1. The government didn't leak this document. A true patriot did. And that patriot is now the #1 target for Ashcroft to crucify.
2. Bush/Cheney/Ashcroft were going to lob this firecracker in a few weeks, as the attack against the Iraqis goes into full swing. Get it? Standard Operating Procedure. Get the thing into law when no one is looking -- and Bush gets to decide when the distraction occurs.
3. Spread the word. Yell it from the highest chatrooms. Only publicity can kill this thing.
1. Something happens, people revolt.
2. A new government is started. At that point things are as good as they're gonna get in that country (freedom wise).
3. From that point on, the government gets more and more corrupt until
4.Go to 1.
Push the button Max!!!!