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Going Cyberpunk

goingincirclez writes "Cnet has an article about the development of a "Neuro-chip". This can be implanted in the brain and is currently being researched for medical uses. The article makes a brief mention the composition of pictures on a computer based on signlas receieved from the brain. Couple this development with the information in this Wired article from last October, and I can't help but wonder how far we are from literally being able to record dreams and thoughts?" On a similar note there are stories about a temperature-sensing implantable microchip and a scientist who claims he can tell whether you've committed a crime.

32 of 212 comments (clear)

  1. The John Ashcroft implantable microchip by Ikoma+Andy · · Score: 3, Funny

    "98.6! Take him away, boys, he's guilty of somethin'!"

    1. Re:The John Ashcroft implantable microchip by dkf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I've no problem with this so long as we screen all our elected representatives, judges, lawyers and police officers before starting on anyone else...

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
    2. Re:The John Ashcroft implantable microchip by grub · · Score: 3, Funny


      I've no problem with this so long as we screen all our elected representatives, judges, lawyers and police officers

      That would be useless. Reptiles don't generate internal heat.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
  2. Imagine this idea by Rooked_One · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Right now, we are limited to a mouse and keyboard to compete in games like quake 3.

    Imagine that all you would have to do is hook a little matrix type needle in your head and you could compete based on pure reflexes and just how fast your brain can work, and not on a malfunctioning optical mouse.

    Geez, when I think of it like that, there could be all sorts of implications for something like this from being a lie detector to measureing IQ.

    1. Re:Imagine this idea by Anonymous+Hack · · Score: 5, Funny

      You know, the whole "Matrix-type needle" thing bugs me. It's so... clinical. I want a fuckin rock'n'roll guitar jack in my head a la the Shadowrun RPG. If you're going to plug your PC into your head the least you could do is make sure it's a fashion statement and not some kinda wimpy little pin interface.

      I can see it now:
      Dell jack - Comes in beige plastic and lasts about two weeks.
      Toshiba jack - "It's not a jack, it's a mini-jack." For the mobile computing professional.
      Sun jack - "We don't sell jacks." You need com.sun.java.io.jack installed on whatever other jack you have.
      Sony jack - Comes with integrated DRM to fry you if you download MP3s to your brain.
      VIA jack - Mini-ITX version implants the whole PC in your head.
      IBM jack - It's square. And comes in clusters.
      Apple jack - Mmmm yum. Comes in translucent tangerine, but doesn't actually do anything because all the connections are wireless.

      --
      I got a sig so you would remember me.
    2. Re:Imagine this idea by Bicoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Would you really want a cranial jack? Or would you want to go wifi? Part of me would rather not have an unsightly USB port on the back of my skull, but then, being plugged in all the time woulf make you more vulnerable to hacking. When someone hacks your PC, it's not a huge deal...at worst, you have to reformat your hard drive. But if they hacked your brain...

      I see this mainly as a way to have true input/output from a cybernetic prosthesis, allowing the fake leg to do real things. Maybe hardcore MMOG players (read: otaku) would get it as well so they could truly live in those environments and escape reality. Other than than....do people really want the privacy of their own thoughts violated? A mindreading device would crash and burn because everyone has their own secrets they don't want anyone else to know. Though black market industry might take over...consider the House of Blue Lights from Gibson's Burning Chrome. Or chips in two people's brains (one monitoring input and one controlling output) so that one of the people is basically experiencing and controlling the other body. I could see a lot of market for THAT for government, celebrities, and big business...want to go somewhere but you don't want to have to be followed by bodygards? Use a puppet body so no matter what happens to the body, you're still safe at home.

      Regardless, this is more likely to become a black market technology. You can use it in too many unethical ways that would never be approved by law but still have both the $$ and desire to be done.

      --
      If not all sentients are human, couldn't it be possible that not all humans are sentient either?
  3. if there is anything that Tom Cruise has taught me by AssFace · · Score: 5, Funny

    its that only shaved psychic genetic freaks that float in a comatose state in a vat underground can tell me who has committed a crime.

    --

    There are some odd things afoot now, in the Villa Straylight.
  4. 5th Amendment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If (and I'm stressing that if) this becomes "widely accepted", couldn't one simply refuse to allow oneself to be tested, as it would really just be another form of self incrimination, which we are protected from by the 5th Amendment? After all, each of these little "brain spikes" would be like the defendant muttering "I did it" each time he was shown a card with evidence on it.

    1. Re:5th Amendment by gilroy · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Blockquoth the poster:

      If (and I'm stressing that if) this becomes "widely accepted", couldn't one simply refuse to allow oneself to be tested, as it would really just be another form of self incrimination, which we are protected from by the 5th Amendment?

      Sure. Just like your right to refuse a breathalyzer test if pulled over by the cops. Except, of course, that if you exercise this right, the state is allowed to revoke your driving privileges effectively immediately. It won't take long before refusing to take the test will itself be taken as a confession.
    2. Re:5th Amendment by Eimi+Metamorphoumai · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I hate to be pedantic (actually that's a lie, I love to be pedantic), but if you were only defending himself you still did kill her. If that's the case then don't try to pretend you didn't, but instead claim self defence. In which case the machine would be of no use, since what happened wouldn't really be in question, merely the motives and intentions and details. There are plenty of strong arguments against brain fingerprinting, but that's the stupidest one I've heard yet.

      --

      Visit me on #weirdness on the Galaxynet.

    3. Re:5th Amendment by andyt · · Score: 4, Informative

      In the UK silence is basically an admission of guilt. You are not told "You have the right to remain silent", you are told "Anything you do not say now may later harm your defence" or something like that. IANAL - could someone better grounded in this give us a more accurate quote please?

      "You do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you do not mention now, anything you later rely on in court. Anything you do say will be given in evidence."

      We lost the "Right to Silence" in the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994. Under the new laws, although we are under no obligation to self-incriminate, the court can now make inferences as regards to silence under the following circumstances :

      1) Failure to mention a fact when questioned under caution before charge which is relied on in defence.

      2) Failure on being charged with an offence or informed of likely prosecution, to mention a fact which it would have been reasonable to mention at the time.

      3) Failure or refusal to account for objects, substances or marks found on your person, in or on your clothing or otherwise in your possession, in the place where you were arrested (if asked).

      4) Failure or refusal after your arrest to account for your presence at a place at or about the time the offence is alleged to have been committed (if asked)

      info from : Liberty UK

  5. No reading of minds yet by AntiFreeze · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Quoth the article:

    "For example, you could put slices from brain nerve cells on the chip, apply drugs and see how the nerve signals" and cells react to a particular drug, he said in an interview.

    So reading one's mind is still _far_ in the future. That said, it's still a very cool technology which will allow for more information on how the brain works, and hopefully some serious medical advances.

    --

    ---
    "Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." --Dennis Miller

    1. Re:No reading of minds yet by blindcoder · · Score: 5, Interesting

      And that's a shame.

      Is there anyone else out there who sometimes when coding has the feeling:

      Dammit... I have all that code in my brain, and now I have to type away hours on the keyboard to put it into my 'puter.

      I really hoped that this feeling would finally be able to subside...

      --
      See my blog for my free opinions.
  6. Most important use: by Ann+Coulter · · Score: 4, Funny

    The Orgasmatron. This, and a replacement for addictive drugs, are the most important functions of cybernetics. And fortunately, they are pretty easy to implement, as opposed to mind transfers or the like.

  7. An upside... by The+G · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You know, I'm glad there are scientists out there who can tell whether I've committed a crime. Because with all these bizarre and incomprehensible laws out there, I sure as heck don't know when I have. Perhaps if I get one of these chip things it will tell me when my code touches a patented technology or happens to break some loser's copy-protection technology from the mid-80s.
    --G

    1. Re:An upside... by glenrm · · Score: 3, Funny

      Could you sus out the size of the chip they would have to insert in your meat bod to hold the tax code, ouch!

    2. Re:An upside... by ch-chuck · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You pull an old tv out of the attic and check it out, thinking it might sell on eBay. Just as you turn the UHF knob toward the upper end of the dial a paralysing shock knocks your hand numb and a loud thought-voice says, in a friendly, evenly modulated female tone, "I'm sorry, you were about to tune into a frequency band used for private unencrypted voice conversations, prohibited by federal law. I cannot allow that to happen Dave."

      Next day during a break at work, you come across, in the dark fringe areas of the web, a very large prime number - suddenly your field of vision blacks out with a searing headache and the same thought-voice says, "I'm sorry, you were about to view a number which, when uncompressed, contains information that may be used to circumvent video copy protection, prohibited by federal law. I cannot allow that to happen Dave."

      --
      try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
    3. Re:An upside... by CommieLib · · Score: 4, Interesting

      'There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. ... Create a nation of law-breakers, and then you cash in on the guilt.'

      -Ayn Rand "Atlas Shrugged"

      --
      If your bitterest enemies are people who hack the heads off civilians, then I would say you're doing something right.
  8. Um... Has anyone NOT committed a crime? by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 5, Insightful

    With laws like the U.S.A.P.A.T.R.I.O.T. act and the DMCA, hasn't pretty much everyone broken the law now? It hardly takes a scientists to tell whether someone's a criminal these days. Hell, it's been true for decades that the tax code is so fiendishly complex that no one can understand it, let alone comply with it fully. And if all else fails, there's always the speed limit laws...

    --
    You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
  9. Imagine...! by I)_MaLaClYpSe_(I · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Just imagine all the horrible ways in which this technology could be abused!
    And as we all know, everything you can think of will be done! What can YOU think of?

    *shudder*

    If there is one lesson we can learn from history, it is that we dont learn from history ~ dont know whose quote

  10. In the beginning was the THOUGHT by solendril · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Now what REALLY matters is the interface. It's not much good to have a computer wired to your cortex is all you can do is type on your brain's command line.

    What will make this take off is a thought-processor. An interface device that allows the computer to read your mind. The real challange will be in signal filtering; I don't want to speak for anyone else, but I think about a lot of random crap during the day. How to distinguish legitimate commands from my daydreaming about travel or movies or p0rn?

    Whoever invents this will make Einstein look like a small time celebrity.

  11. Why a chip? by joel8x · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Who in their right mind would get a chip implanted in their body? With technology advancing as fast as it does, you would be outdated in a couple of years! A better Idea would be a port that can be easily accessed that can support future upgrades without surgery.

    --
    Sound waves should be free!
  12. Re:Increase brain usage? by benwb · · Score: 4, Informative
  13. Two questions... by Jack+William+Bell · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Suppose you could get a chip inplanted in your brain that would allow you to control a computer with thought. Two questions:
    1. Would you be willing to be a beta tester?
    2. Would the answer to question One depend on the operating system in ran?
    --
    - -
    Are you an SF Fan? Are you a Tru-Fan?
  14. No one understands the brain by Junks+Jerzey · · Score: 3, Informative

    can't help but wonder how far we are from literally being able to record dreams and thoughts?

    If you read material on brain research, you'll quickly come to the realize that we have no idea at all how the brain works. The theories are widely varying and contradictory. The chip in this story is a hack, like shocking a dead frog and watching its muscles twitch. You can do it without any kind of clue, but going from there to a full understanding of things is a gargantuan leap.

  15. Expensive, but... by barryfandango · · Score: 4, Funny

    The prohibitive cost of a sub-cranial interface could always be reconciled by having banner popups in your field of vision.

    --
    In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane. -Oscar Wilde
  16. Rules after having brain-chip implanted..... by Dragon213 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Rule 1: Never give your brain-node's IP to Slashdot!!!
    Rule 2: See Rule 1

    --
    --CypherDragon
  17. Missing the point by Jabber3776 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Really let's think about it. If we can record our dreams and thoughts, especially for those of us that do our best writing in our head and can never seem to get it on paper, it could be a useful tool. What about those that are deaf and blind? A way that would have the ability to reconnect the broken links. The possiblities are endless. It's not about creating super human machines; or making big brother. It's taking science and and medicine a step further. A way to help build new and better interpersonal commuinications for those that have trouble with this.

  18. One step at a time... by HarveyBirdman · · Score: 3, Funny

    The problem here is that most of humanity still needs to have a BRAIN implanted before they can start thinking about brain enhancing chips.

    --
    --- Ban humanity.
  19. Sure, laugh now guys, while you can. by Xilinx_guy · · Score: 4, Insightful
    It's easy enough to poke fun at the crude brain implant IC's developed so far... It will be a whole lot less funny when the state of the art advances to the point where they start to become actually useable. Right now, high tech corporations boost the effective IQ of their employees by buying them the best computers and software available. We all benefit from this and enjoy the perks of having a nice fast machine and the latest software. What do you think will happen if implant IC's can be shown to boost effective IQ by 30 or 40 points? Or rather, if it boosts design productivity by 50% or more? They guys who have implants will be in tremendous demand, while those who lack them will be consigned to writing technical documents, or customer support. It could get downright nasty, trying to compete with guys who can literally outthink you by a wide margin by virtue of their hardware link. It's bad enough that we are starting to see tech jobs moving to India and other 3rd world sweatshops, but brain implants will bring the digital divide to a whole new level. All this carping aside, I sincerely want an implant. Voice recognition sucks, and fingers and mouse are rarely fast enough to do everything I'd like. Once they've been shown to be medically safe, I'll probably take the plunge. Maybe in 10 years, but I hope in 5.

    And to answer the unspoken question: Can FPGA's be used in your brain? I say this: Get Real. Current FPGA technology has no possible application. Maybe in 5 or 10 years, when we have conquered the leakage problem, and have developed fuel cells that run on glucose. But I don't see it, since an ASIC dedicated to brain interface functions will be a far superior solution. FPGA's may evolve into a future computing fabric, so they may have useful applications in external hardware, but it will be a very distant descendent of FPGA's that are finally used for in-body implants.

  20. Not too bright a scientist? by Strange+Ranger · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Brain fingerprinting works by measuring and analyzing split-second spikes in electrical activity in the brain when it responds to something it recognizes. ...if a suspected murderer was shown a detail of the crime scene that only he would know, his brain would involuntarily register that knowledge. ... A person who had never seen that crime scene would show no reaction.

    So the detail is blood in a clawfoot tub. Maybe you have a clawfoot tub? Maybe you watched a dozen different movies with blood/tub scenes. Maybe you have the same exact Teledyne Waterpic that the murder victim has hanging in his shower. You could recognize anything for any number of reasons. Not only that, but your memory changes over time. After 23 years that guy could have been imagining innocence scenarios for so long it looked to the scanner like he was innocent.

    Sorry, I don't buy it at all.

    --

    Operator, give me the number for 911!
  21. Please... by Quadriceps · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Everyone is letting their imagination run away with them. Not that that's a bad thing (that's the premise of great sci-fi) but there's nothing in the articles to suggest we'll have microchips implanted to record thoughts or USB ports on our skulls any time soon. As an MD I know a little something about neuroscience as well as implantable devices, and can assure you those scenarios are least a hundred years off, and probably a lot more. We have barely scratched the surface of how memory and thought are encoded, much less capturing that data.

    Both of the articles discuss observing only electrical activity. While useful, it is analogous to an EKG, just a graph of currents that can tell us the heart rate yet gives us little functional info beyond that. It can't tell you what the blood pressure is, or what the quality or quantity of the blood components is. The devices described are only a little more invasive than a device already in use to diagnose certain brain abnormalities: the electroencephalograph (EEG). It may diagnose epilepsy and sometimes causes of dementia, can suggest the occasional tumor and can tell us a person is brain dead. That's about it. It certainly doesn't tell the world what you're thinking, your sexual preference, or your illicit file-sharing habits.

    The article on brain fingerprinting makes clear (at least to me) that the machine is of the same concept as a lie-detector test, though perhaps more advanced and reliable. IMHO, the test is not self-incriminating any more than that damning fingerprint you accidentally left at the crime scene.