Swiss Tax Office distributes Mozilla and OpenOffice

And in the U.S. of A. by ArkiMage · 2003-02-15 03:40 · Score: 3, Funny

The US Post Office schills for Microsoft...

Terrific! by Azureflare · 2003-02-15 03:40 · Score: 5, Insightful

This is a step that should be made be more governments, to ease the tax process for people who don't want to spend money for a tax program. Jeez, we have to pay the taxes, why do we have to pay for a tax program to pay the taxes??

Tax office... Hrmm by slashhax0r · 2003-02-15 03:41 · Score: 4, Insightful

I'd rather see governments switching to open source and either using the saved dollars for something ie: education/heathcare, or just give us some tax rebates.. Neat idea though. P.s. fp?

Not quite on topic, but... by Akardam · 2003-02-15 03:48 · Score: 4, Funny

... CowboyNeal is posting... ... is this right? I thought he was only a mythical figure featured prominently in Slashdot polls since the beginning of Slashtime?

Mommy, I'm scared...

Re:Not quite on topic, but... by Ryne · 2003-02-15 03:57 · Score: 2, Informative

ehm, where have you been?
http://slashdot.org/search.pl?op=stories&autho r=4
Re:Not quite on topic, but... by leomekenkamp · 2003-02-15 04:27 · Score: 3, Informative

Never visited his website?

--
Wenn ist das Nunstueck git und Slotermeyer? Ja! Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput.
Re:Not quite on topic, but... by Apiakun · 2003-02-15 04:38 · Score: 5, Funny

Notice also that this isn't a duplicate story, and that there are no spelling errors!
Re:Not quite on topic, but... by Poeir · 2003-02-15 06:23 · Score: 2, Funny

Hey, you're right. Here's a more Slashdotesque version:

Posted by CowboyNeal on Saturday February 15, @09:38AM
from the taxman-downloadeth dept.
David Gerard writes "From Heese (via Mozillazine: taxpayers in the Swiss canton of Geneva are being given a CD with a French version of Mozilla 1.2.1, OpenOffice.org 1.0.1 and tax program GEtax 2002. Rough English translation from Google." This strikes me as a really cool idea. I already get the cerds that tell me to file online rather than fill out paper forms, but it stll forces me to buy tax software every year.

--
Sigs are like bumper stickers.

Re:For which platforms? by willll · 2003-02-15 03:50 · Score: 5, Informative

according to the babelfish translation: "OpenOffice.org 1,0,1 in French for Windows and Linux as well as the Webbrowser Mozilla 1,2,1 in French for Windows, Linux and Mac OS X."

tax program GEtax 2002 by SonOfSengaya · 2003-02-15 03:52 · Score: 5, Informative

It's nice to see that the tax program is also available for Linux and Mac OS 9 + X
http://www.getax.ch/dyn/ledossier.php?id_rubrique= 18

--
My spirit takes a journey through my mind...

headline by willll · 2003-02-15 03:52 · Score: 5, Funny

The headline of the babelfish translation: " OpenOffice and Mozilla distributes Swiss revenue office " They forgot to say In Soviet Russia.

Cool! by sepluv · 2003-02-15 03:54 · Score: 5, Informative

Giving out tax software is of course a very helpful and good thing and all governments should do it. It would be pretty cheap for governments to do (almost free when they have made the software). It also means that there is an offical, piece of software which uses the correct methods (and no arguments).

I am not sure what platforms the actual GETax program is available on and whether it is open source - IMO as offical software given out by the government it should be.

Mozilla and OpenOffice are, of course, really great additions, and should bring the wonders of good open source software to the public there (and a standards-compliant browser that actualy works and doesn't live in the Dark Ages)(although I guess people there are probably already quite open-minded).

If only the governments of other MEDC's would start doing this kind of thing (and werent in collusion with M$). It would be a start if they could start storing personal data we entrust them with in non-prorietary formats on open-source OS's - doing anything else seems crazy in a democratic society.

Kudos to the Swiss (who tend to be a more sensible European government). Also

--
Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley
[This post is in the public domain (copyright-free) unless otherwise stated]

Re:For which platforms? by maan · 2003-02-15 03:55 · Score: 2, Informative

I can't find the maillist post anymore, but I remember reading that it was for at least linux and windows. Not sure about Mac.

Also, the tax software itself is in java, and known to run in windows and linux. So I guess there's a possibility that it can run on mac too.

Maan

IRS and corporate welfare by kkirk007 · 2003-02-15 04:00 · Score: 5, Insightful

The IRS this year was considering releasing its own tax software, available for free. Then the major tax software distributors (TurboTax, TaxCut, TaxAct, etc) cried foul..."if you release an electronic 1040 for free we'll go out of business!" and so instead the IRS struck an accord with them that they would give away their product to people with incomes under $30K /year.

Since when was the IRS responsible to the software companies to keep their revenue stream going, rather than providing a useful tax service to the public?

Re:IRS and corporate welfare by Gerry+Gleason · 2003-02-15 04:24 · Score: 4, Interesting

Yes, and the truely objectionable thing about this is as long as the "major tax software distributors" are in control, there is zero prospect that we will be able to do our taxes securly on our OS platforms. I don't even care whether they give away the actual tax software, but what the IRS should do for us is create an open tax platform so they can release all the rules, regulations, forms and proceedures in a form that can be used directly by "generic" tax software.
What I am imagining here is a system of XML files and XML document types that would have all the data that changes year to year as they update tax laws. This would make and OS tax program practical because you would just have to implement the generic software that uses this raw data, and you wouldn't need an army of tax lawyers and accountants to first digest the tax laws (and do this again each year). Most people would still use the commercial packages on the typical platforms, and this isn't even a guarantee that and OS version would emerge, but at least it would be possible.
A full OS reference platform might be nice too, but it isn't a requirement.
Re:IRS and corporate welfare by Hollins · 2003-02-15 04:41 · Score: 3, Insightful

I'm a little more cynical. While I have no doubt Intuit et al. raised a fuss, I think the government also realized that they would lose money through more widespread distribution of tax prep software. With all the talk about tax fraud, it is seldom mentioned that most people overpay their taxes. Tax prep software always reduces how much I pay over what I would have computed by filling out the forms manually. The software's interview process this year helped me find an educational deduction I wasn't aware of, optimize our IRA contributions, run different scenarios for next year, etc. It's virtually impossible to figure all this stuff out with a 1040 and a pencil, which is how most people do their taxes. If prep software were free, officially sanctioned by the IRS and as full-featured as TurboTax, I suspect revenue from individual and joint returns would drop substantially.
Re:IRS and corporate welfare by jaaron · 2003-02-15 04:47 · Score: 4, Insightful

Actually, it's a tricky situation because you're talking about the line between the government and the market. Should the government compete or even enter areas of the private sector where firms are currently conducting activities? In some cases, it might make sense, but it's not something that should be happening often or you end up with a bloated government that runs and produces everything.

Taking this to extremes (forgive me for a moment), but if the government will provide free (or low cost) tax software, why not give me free or low cost online access so I can file online? And why not give me a computer too. And hey, I need an operating system for the darn thing. Oh, and throw in a printer while your at it. Perhaps this seems silly, but when you deal with public services, you have to consider the long term consequences these trends can begin. Bloated services often start lean and mean and well intentioned.

Generally, in any case that the private sector is offering a viable product, then the government shouldn't come in and replace them. Now the case of tax software is a little odd since that market is essentially feeding off of the tax service the government offers to begin with. One could also argue that the increased competition of the government might help the situation by forcing the current private firms to better their service. In some markets like education and mail/package delivery such competition works.

My point here is that just because some nation starts offering open source tax software doesn't mean it's a great idea for the US. There are pros and cons that should be weighed.

--
Who said Freedom was Fair?
Re:IRS and corporate welfare by dunkelfalke · 2003-02-15 05:16 · Score: 2, Interesting

it does not compete.
in germany, there is a free government tax software, too. the difference between this and commercial software is that commercial software helps the user to pay less tax. the government software is just the same as tax sheets on plain paper.

--
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Re:IRS and corporate welfare by Anonymous Coward · 2003-02-15 06:00 · Score: 2, Insightful

If you think of the Govt as a business (which it really is)
No.
Let businesses do business, and the government, govern. Sorry, but plenty of things (Education, Science, Law enforcement...) are not business, not to be decided by "business" criteria.
Re:IRS and corporate welfare by Zzootnik · 2003-02-15 06:08 · Score: 3, Interesting

Okay---You're not gonna believe this one, but for 2 years running now, I've studiously worked out my taxes, mailed it all in, gotten my refund back and then received another check in the mail for the corrected adjustments the IRS figured themselves. Yeah- that's right--they didn't LET me overpay...how's that for odd...

--
Sig currently under construction. Mind the gap....
Re:IRS and corporate welfare by timeOday · 2003-02-15 07:06 · Score: 2, Insightful

What if I started a business selling custom-printed 4-color tax forms, could I sue the govt to stop mailing out the IRS-prepared tax packets so people would have to pay me money to prepare their taxes?
The current situation truly is corporate welfare because setting up a free, official website would increase the rate of e-filing, and that would save the govt. tons of money on tax processing, not to mention publishing all those tax forms and instruction books.
It's a simple matter of conduction govt. business in the most efficient and effective way. Purposely creating govt. inefficiencies so private companies can make money is dumb.
Re:IRS and corporate welfare by An+Onerous+Coward · 2003-02-15 12:24 · Score: 3, Interesting

On the other hand, unlike other businesses, you don't have a choice to not "do business" with the government by not paying your taxes. It seems lame for them to create the burden on the public and then force us to rely on third parties to comply with them.

The IRS certainly has sufficient expertise to create and maintain income tax software. I really think it's something that they should be doing.

Also, there's an issue of accountability. Supposing a major error was found in a highly popular tax prep package, which caused people to file inaccurately. I don't know what sort of guarantees the vendors make, but one thing that they can't say is that the IRS would honor the inaccurate evaluation. With the IRS as the vendor, the taxpayers might have greater assurances.

I believe that the government has a duty to make it as easy to comply with tax laws as humanly possible, and I'm heavily in favor of anything that accomplishes that goal. Whether that means creating helpful software or simplifying the tax code itself, such simplifications make life easier on hundreds of millions of people.

--
You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!

Free Tax Program for US by nurb432 · 2003-02-15 04:01 · Score: 3, Insightful

While would be great, i dont see it happening, as we have 50 state tax rules and sets of forms to deal with. Then you have the thousands of pages of tax code for federal..

Its why places like HR-BLock can make so much $$ on what *should* be a simple process.

If they just would goto a "flat tax" the entire problem would go away.. Thousands of hours, millions of dollars wasted....

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---- Booth was a patriot ----

Re:Free Tax Program for US by Anonymous Coward · 2003-02-15 04:39 · Score: 2, Insightful

If they went to a flat tax system, then corporations and the top .5% of people would actually have to pay taxes. So no, we're never going to a flat tax system.

Ah ha! by ArmenTanzarian · 2003-02-15 04:04 · Score: 3, Funny

All you have to do is be a poor college student like myself, there are a myriad of free resources for filing for my meager return online.

Free Online Tax Filing by flyingV · 2003-02-15 04:13 · Score: 5, Informative

There is a list of places to file online for free (or a small fee) right from the IRS website.

http://www.irs.gov/app/freeFile/jsp/index.jsp?

I, for one, am trying out Free Tax USA.

Do you really believe by Anonymous Coward · 2003-02-15 04:15 · Score: 2, Insightful

that if the government were to provide a free tax program, that it would find your best result or offer tax saving features?

Chances are, the software would include features advantageous to the irs only. It would include things you *don't* want the irs to necessarily know.

(slightly) better translation from a human being by zztzed · 2003-02-15 04:19 · Score: 4, Informative

Hopefully this will make more sense than the Google translation. :P

Swiss revenue office distributes OpenOffice and Mozilla

The revenue office of the Swiss canton of Genf is furnishing all taxpayers who are "natural persons" in the canton with a CD for electronically filing their tax returns for 2002. Along with the tax return program GEtax 2002, which was developed in connection with DV Bern AG, open source programs like OpenOffice 1.0.1 in French for Windows and Linux as well as the web browser Mozilla 1.2.1 in French for Windows, Linux and Mac OS X can be found on the CD.

With this, the government of Genf is one of the first governments worldwide to provide its citizens with open source products. OpenOffice.org contains, among other things, a word processor, a spreadsheet, presentation software, and Zeichenprogramm [I have no idea what that means. "character program"?]. The web suite Mozilla 1.2.1 includes a web browser, and email and chat clients, as well as an HTML editor.

You know... by Spazntwich · 2003-02-15 04:20 · Score: 5, Interesting

This really doesn't change the fact that if we just had a more simple and less convoluted tax system, we wouldn't even need to worry about complex deductions, brackets, taxable income, credits, etc.

I'm not advocating a flat tax. Hell, I'm not even sure what I'm advocating, but if we had a more simple tax code, we wouldn't need to spend that money on tax software every year.

This brings up an interesting point though. Would the makers of Turbo Tax make a move like the RIAA and try to sue the government if we moved to a simple tax system people didn't need software for?

After all, it would technically be destroying their business model.

Re:(slightly) better translation from a human bein by dunkelfalke · 2003-02-15 04:24 · Score: 2, Informative

it is german for drawing software. open office draw then.

--
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap

this may not be such a good idea... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-02-15 04:25 · Score: 2, Interesting

If many taxpayers are installing this software to file their taxes, then there definitely will be a few where the software doesn't install cleanly or well. Something used for this purpose definitely has to be "turnkey." I really hope that they have the bugs worked out of this process. They must have a lot of confidence in the software. I just know how many times I have been frustrated by relatively simple software that must be used to file a government form.

Why not simplify so no software is necessary? by The+Mutant · 2003-02-15 04:27 · Score: 5, Insightful

IMHO this misses the fundamental problem; tax codes in most countries are just too damn complex.

In the United States they've managed to create such a complicated system that with few exceptions, the services of a professional - or the use of sophistcated and costly software - are necessary. This is ridiculous!

My situation is a little bit more complicated than most since I'm American and live in London. Last year my US tax return alone was 88 pages! Unbelievable.

And yeah, I have to use an accounting firm to complete my return even though I've got a Masters in Finance. The cost of an honest mistake discovered years later would be far too high for me to risk it.

So I get to pay KMPG about two thousand Pounds to complete my US and UK tax returns. Great.

--

A message from our sponsor

What's REALLY interesting about it... by koi88 · 2003-02-15 04:28 · Score: 4, Insightful

... is that OSS is distributed together with the tax software and that every adult gets a copy.

This way many people who are often too "lazy" to download new software and stick with their included Internet Explorer can try a different browser.

Same with OpenOffice: I know a lot of people who are CONVINCED that there is no alternative to MS Office... I'm sure many will give it a try-- in the end it means you can save a lot of money...

ps: Hey! I posted this story yesterday, but it was rejected... I know, don't complain...

--

I don't need a signature.

The canton of Berne, too. by de+la+mettrie · 2003-02-15 04:32 · Score: 5, Informative

The Swiss canton of Berne has been distributing the TaxMe Software for two years now. It's a Java app, so it runs on any OS. You fill in the tax data, it creates PDF tax forms for you to print out and sign. Or you can even do it all online through a web interface, using the ID/password printed on the physical forms everyone gets by mail. Very slick.

Re:Exactly! by entrigant · 2003-02-15 04:39 · Score: 2, Interesting

I had to pay $20 a week for 10 weeks to a drug rehabilitation program because I got caught with 2 grams of weed. This program had struck a deal with the state to get the courts to do this. I'm sick and tired of corporate welfare.

Buy software?? by aka.Daniel'Z · 2003-02-15 04:45 · Score: 5, Informative

but it still forces me to buy tax software every year.

Buy software? Here in Brazil, we can download the software from Receita Federal for free, and send them the information online, or go to the nearest Banco do Brasil and give them a floppy disk (for those that don't want / can't send online)

Re:so where is the French Mozilla 1.2.1? by ramdam · 2003-02-15 04:49 · Score: 4, Informative

Here it is
but the localisation for 1.2.1 version is still experimental.
woah, Swiss gov is it running a mass beta-testing of OSS on mundane people ?
I hope they have included a simple feedback application too

Re:My 2cents by TheRaven64 · 2003-02-15 04:53 · Score: 3, Insightful

I don't think the Mozilla crowd have any idea how socially inappropriate it is to be seen using a browser with the flame-throwing dinosaur in the introscreen.
Really? I installed Moz on my mother's computer (and she is a 100% certified technophobe). Her comment was 'I like the dragon thing. The spining world one [Internet Explorer] was quite boring'. Why exactly do you think the 'flame-throwing dinosaur' is inappropriate? Who exactly does it offend?

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I am TheRaven on Soylent News

Re:My 2cents by acedtect · 2003-02-15 05:16 · Score: 2, Insightful

Perhaps I am just dull but explain why a fire-breathing dragon is socially inappropriate. Is it racist? No. Is it sexist? No. Is it juvenile? Possibly but I don't think so. Are you saying that when button-down boring business types load it it will offend their chrome and cherrywood sensibilities and start the painful process of creative thinking?

It is obviously not too socially inappropiate. Although the Swiss Tax Office is widely known as a freewheeling socially inappropriate hotbed of frivolity.

The swedish government by Jugalator · 2003-02-15 05:45 · Score: 2, Informative

Hopefully, the swedish government will start switching soon as well. :-) There's been quite a bit of talk about it lately, so at least they seem to give it some serious consideration.

--
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!

UK Self Assessment by Tanami · 2003-02-15 05:48 · Score: 3, Informative

In the UK the self assessment tax form can now be completed entirely on-line (not sure how long this has been the case - last year was the first time I needed to complete one).

It will even calculate the tax and national insurance constributions owed.

Can't say I like paying tax (or more specifically, the way it is spent), but they certainly made it pretty straightforward.

As a corollary to the above however, I believe you have zero chance of using any of the british governments online services if you don't have Microsoft's Java VM - which is a bit of a bugger if you use Linux, or it recent enlightenments, have XP SP1a!

Poor v rich by mgkimsal2 · 2003-02-15 06:22 · Score: 2, Informative

I think it was Dick Armey's proposal from a few years ago that income under $30k not be taxed, and everything over that be taxed at 10% (or maybe 15%?)

I really don't see how 'the rich' (great label there) would pay *less* than they do now. Not much to hide behind when it's basic math that a 10 year old should be able to do.

You made $200,000 last year? Pay $17,000 (10% of $170,000).

Why is that so hard or evil?

'The poor' wouldn't pay anything. Someone earning $50,000 would pay $2,000. What's wrong with that?

Also, what is seldom pointed out is that *activity* is taxed. Money sitting under my bed isn't taxed, but when I transfer it to someone else (purchase/gift) that activity is taxed. More money in people's pockets means they will engage in more activity, which is what is taxed.

--
creation science book

Re:Poor v rich by gorgon · 2003-02-15 07:24 · Score: 3, Insightful

The tax you're talking about above would not bring in enough money. The rich and much of the middle class would pay a lot less than they do now.
Your person making $200k probably pays $30k+ right now, so your are talking about roughly a 50% tax decrease. I make a little over half of that $200k, and I am paying just a little less than the $17k.
There's nothing inherently evil about a flat tax, but I think that it is a stupid idea. The rich get the most benefits from the current system and they have more money to spare, so they should pay more in income taxes. The poor have to pay enough on the local level in most areas on sales and property taxes. If anything, I think that the current system isn't progressive enough. We should be increases the tax rate on the higher levels. And if you want to cut out taxes on dividends then I think that the taxes should be cut out on interest from bonds and savings accounts as well.

--

And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners.
Berke Breathed

Why not distribute GnuCash too? by mgkimsal2 · 2003-02-15 06:25 · Score: 2, Interesting

I don't think there's a Windows version currently, but if they're distributing OO and Mozilla, giving people a copy of GnuCash as well wouldn't hurt. Maybe it's not 'internationalized'?

--
creation science book

Probably saves the Tax Men Money Too! by WoTG · 2003-02-15 06:44 · Score: 2, Interesting

This has bugged me for the last few years.

It's in the government's INTEREST to have people file electronically. I cringe when I imagine the number of people working in Ottawa (I'm Canadian) just doing DATA ENTRY, never mind auditing/reviewing of our returns. I have no idea how many people or how long it takes or how many tons of mail are involved, but I'm pretty sure it's better for _everyone_ (well, maybe not the aforementioned data entry people) to provide free electronic filing software.

Nothing like wasting tax money to unnecessarily process tax returns. =)

Why don't AOL do this? by -tji · 2003-02-15 08:04 · Score: 2

They send out MILLIONS of CD's already.. I haven't looked at the contents lately, but I assume there would be some free space. Stick a few cool Free Software packages on there as a nice little "fuck you" to microsoft, and also a benefit to the citizenry, to offset the annoyance of the spam-CD.

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