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MS Youth-Culture App Gets Gushy Advance Reviews
geo writes "Newsweek first reported this new Microsoft beta, threedegrees. The surprise is, Steven Levy, well-known fan of the Macintosh (and unfan of Microsoft) wrote something almost entirely positive. So did CNET news.com.com.com.com.com. Is it possible that something good is coming out of Redmond?"
The most ambitious feature is called musicmix, an online equivalent of a pajama party where people take turns playing deejay. Each group member contributes favorite tunes into a shared playlist, displayed on a dashboard with a customized "skin," and everyone listens together. A click from any participant can choose a new song. Then everyone chats about the tunes.
Does this mean that everyone must already have the tunes licenced on their computer? The following quote suggests otherwise:
Interestingly, men and women use this feature differently: guys will see it as a contest--who's brought the coolest tunes?
Sounds a bit like P2P on a tiny scale to me. I wonder how this fits in with Microsoft's DRM schemes...
Just RTFA and I cringed when I saw the bit about the instant sharing of files and images to the entire group. Crap like this is going to play havoc with business networks.
Also it seems to me that MS is getting a little confused, aren't they meant to be sucking up to the RIAA? If so whats with the music sharing?
Take a look at Avril or at Blink 42. These are not people from a generation who wants to adhere to society. Consider the following quote from the article:
;)
>>>
After much negotiation, the labels OK'd musicmix, once Microsoft agreed to somewhat hobble its features. (Playlists have a maximum of 60 tunes, and the songs won't play unless the original owner is participating.)
This is not how it goes. While this stuff might be interesting for the 8-12 year olds, beyond that they will be savy enough to figure out how to do things on their own.
MS while the intention is good is also misdirected. They want to get AOL IM client back. Last I remember the teens do not seem to use AOL since, well, its, for old geezers.... You know those that cannot use a computer
If MS were to stop worrying about the legal implications and stopped looking over their shoulder then maybe this 3degrees will be popular....
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
No thanks.
In the case of MSN Messenger, they're using existing protocols and applications - which, in the spirit of code re-use, is a good thing.
Since MSN Messenger is for windows, that would explain the Windows requirement (although admitidally no 2000?). SP1 is an interesting one - maybe something in it is required - or maybe they're just using it to presuade people to run the fix. I don't know.
Finally the P2P update. Well that makes sense really.
I know this is a pro-Linux, anti-Microsoft site (you can say what you like to disagree but the comments made by the owners are definately that way and the icons imply the same) but come on, if the requirements had been:
Requires Linux 2.5.62 with KDE 3.0 and peer-to-peer upgrade.
(with the subtitling that it doesn't run on windows)
Would someone have made exactly the same comment?
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
Crappy bands like Avril and Blink ARE teen society, right now those horrible pop-punkish bands are terribly 'in'
Banaaaana!
Think about it. The new generation is the generation that will make the bussiness decisions later. Get them hooked up on Windows and the future looks bright for MS.
The current batch is still Windows minded although Linux makes quite a groundswell because the current generation likes it and uses it. So better turn them back to Windows as soon as possible. And the best way to do this is to create an application that gives them what they need. Who cares for the advantages for bussiness and educational markets. If it's good they'll buy it anyway.
No the first twenty replies would have gone along the lines of "KDE? Why would you use that Gnome is way better" "No its not" "Yes it is" "Well you suck" and so on and so on.
Never underestimate the geek ability to concentrate on the minute at the expense of the bigger issue.
Actually I just realized they might be "small webcasters" or internet rados, and they might have to conform to the rules recently established...
In the end what's the difference between shoutcasting to 10 friends or threedegreeing to 10 friends?
He tried to kill me with a forklift!
[ With deepest apologies to Mark Knofler and Dire Straits ]
David Mohring - Original authorNote: dancing like a chimpanzee - see http://www.google.com/search?q=ballmer+monkeyboy+m peg
If you have not already listened to, or read Lessig's speech on free culture. I urge you to do so ASAP. The flash presentation brings home just how much we, as a society in general, have to lose. http://www.eff.org/IP/freeculture/
I guess this means another 10 projects on sourceforge, all in planning stage.
While I think that three degrees seems in theory like a community building tool, what worries me is the limit to 10 participants in a "posse" will create in groups.
Unless you can join multiple "posses," and what I read doesn't seem to suggest it, your going to have groups of ten or less which get to decide who can join.
In MSNM there is not set limit to the number of people you can chat with, and you could make one on one connections. Before you could ignore a person, now you can exclude them. And if it's intended to be for 13 to 14 year olds, I think social cliques are inevitable. This fails to mention those who can't participate fully in the program, which seems to require broadband for what I personally view as the most interesting aspect, the ability to listen to shared music.
I'm not bashing on Redmond on this. I honestly think that the basic idea of the program is meritorious, but by limiting users to ten per group, and (and I could be wrong) users to one group, the collaborative aspects are blunted.
Gryftir
http://www.santacruzbynight.com/index.shtml Santa Cruz By Night Vampire Larp
Most IM systems are OS agnostic. Do you think MS will publish their protocol?
Finally the P2P update. Well that makes sense really.
It only makes sense when everything is "part of the operating system," i.e. it doesn't make sense since this P2P stuff is used only for three degrees. It may be a good idea to have a P2P OS service in the long run, but P2P protocols really haven't standardized. IIRC Clay Shirky had a good article about lack of standardization being a good thing right now.
Requires Linux 2.5.62 with KDE 3.0 and peer-to-peer upgrade. (with the subtitling that it doesn't run on windows) Would someone have made exactly the same comment?
No, because in all likelihood the Linux app would be open source and not subject to all this proprietary vendor lock in bullshit that MS is famous for.
-Kevin
but it's still ristricted.
1) you need to have licenses (maybe via media player DRM modules?)
2) you can't play more than 60 songs on the playlist
3) others can't play your songs if you are offline.
pretty stringent - but better than what RIAA have been dealing out.
What better to explain the word "clout?"
btw, Ars Technica has a small writeup on this too - so check there for more geeky-perspective.
My life in the land of the rising sun.
Is it just me...
Or is this just IRC with a pretty GUI, integrated shoutcast and a channel limit of 10?
Need to get away?
Adirondack Vacations
Actually XP is pretty good on the stabilty front. I've had a few crashes but they're almost exclusively related to my soundcard driver, which is a shit piece of code and totally unrelated to microsoft. I dunno tho, this thing seems kinda stupid. And I'm part of their target demographic...
"Is it possible that something good is coming out of Redmond?"
Is it possible that a Slashdot editor could take submissions with at least some degree of subjectivity? Whether threedegrees is good or not, this sort of opinion in the post itself surely taints the comments.
Free iPods - now in the UK!
- cliquey little channels? check.
- play music in the background? check.
- emoticons? check.
- swap files? check.
- chat and be online all the time? check.
Makes me wonder if perhaps MS is glad to have seen the recent attacks on DalNET - now they can say 'sign up for threedegrees, we never get attacked because we are too cool' or some such marketspeak.By the way, all of the items in the checklist have both positive and negative implications.
Notes: Background Music on IRC? Yep - on the more social/chatty channels, I've seen all kinds of CTCP or in channel requests that look like "please play this music, and if you don't have it, fetch it from me via DCC" - I'm assuming that some clients have automated support for this, and they word the request such that you can still do it manually if you really want (clue for commercial software vendors that think you need a new protocol for every new feature - it's called interoperability and backwards compatibility)
Emoticons? But winks are animated! Um... yeah, so? Perhaps somebody doesn't quite understand yet - slang originates from exclusivity of communication, not 'ooo, shiney!'. Because you can make up ASCII emoticons on the fly, just as you can with slang, I actually think that the ASCII version is a better tool for the communication purpose. Maybe I'm giving the youth of today too much credit, but I don't really think they are willing to accept the limitation to language fluidity. So some will use winks, and some will use ASCII emoticons within the contect. Of course, I'm not sure how much the 'new great thing' factor will play into this.
Is it possible that something good is coming out of Redmond?
From the article:
There's your answer, Timothy.I'm in agreement with z_gringo, but in a sorta oblique way.
The description of the software indicates that threedegrees is a P2P app with a desktop interface. Groups are represented by icons that live on your desktop. Dragging files onto an icon causes members of that group receive copies of those files. This is slick.
Imagine having several groups--Thursday night bowling tourney, monthly staff colloquim, ad hoc governance committee, family, extended family, in-laws, etc.--all of whom could receive some set or subset of different files you choose. You send the files and then chat about what you've received. This is a low-fi version of virtual reality conferencing.
Popular chat clients do have a feature like this, but one of the most popular--AOL Insant Messenger--requires you to invite people 1 by 1. Seems to me threedegress admirably leverages P2P communications technology by means of a GUI.
I am anti-Microsoft as they come: their history makes me so. But threedegrees seems to be a significant application of a GUI to P2P technology. I also think the idea of musicmix is *very* interesting, given that it seems to preserve fair use without infringing on copyright (original owner must be online in order for threedegreed files to be heard).
I'll withhold final judgement until I can test a threedegree client on my Mac. Until then, threedegrees sounds pretty cool, so I'm game. (ugly EULAs and software hiccups notwithstanding)
blog
Me thinks that you do not understand opensource, or Linux in general.
First, we WOULD bitch if a user-space app required a development kernel. User space applications should not care WHAT kernel is running. I can run the LATEST version of apache on a Very old kernel - like the 2.0 series or even older.
Second, virtually ANY open source app can be "backported" to older systems / libraries. What happens with binaries that are dynamically compiled is that they can be tied to the version of libraries that they were linked with. This can be somewhat mitigated by static linking which is what apps like Netscape 4.X and Acrobat do - this allows them top run on ANY version / distro of linux.
Exceptions to recompile-and-run include Kernel Space stuff such as NetFilter which is pretty well integrated into the 2.4+ version of the kernel. Even this is not a hard-and-fast rule as subsystems like USB 2.0 support have been backported from the latest 2.5 dev kernel to 2.4 production.
So yeah, the WinXP SP1 requirement shows that MS does NOT "get it". It's the continual forced upgrades for no good reason that really pisses us off. Win2K is STILL a CURRENT platform, as it should be. MS needs to support is as a current platform. If they build a new app that needs new functionality, they should backport that functionality to W2K and any other current platform in new service pack. Hell, it's not like they can't afford to do this - the OS is their big money maker.
The reason you buy commercial software is for support. By not backporting, MS is effectivly End Of Life-ing Win2K WELL before their official stated EOL date. Why are you giving them money again?
We already have something similar to this in Sweden, called Lunarstorm. It's got picture uploads, friendfinders, guestbooks, discussion forums, interaction via SMS and mobile phones, voting, voice messages - you name it. It's a very feature-complete site and it's got an incredibly high market penetration among the youth of Sweden and I don't think I'd be exaggerating if I say that at least 70% of Swedish teens have a Lunarstorm account. It's a "community" on the outside, but Lunarstorm is used almost solely for meeting chicks (or guys, depending on gender/preference :)). Recently they've recently adopted a pay model where you can pay a small sum each month to get access to the 'plus' features. They're doing pretty well.
:)
So what am I getting at? Well, Sweden's a pretty small country, but the sheer momentum of teenagers registered on Lunarstorm creates a singularity that draws everyone in. I wouldn't be surprised if their market penetration among teens reaches 90% in a year or two, if they're not already there. If all your friends have Lunar accounts, you're going to get one, too. If Microsoft can gather the critical mass of teenagers, and deploy something like this in the ol' US of A, it could be massive. They'd get an instant reputation boost among younger people, a chance to market stuff to the teens (Lunarstorm has many insidious ways of doing this), a way of sneaking new software on people (Microsoft DRM mp3's are even in the article!) and, if they've got the balls, a new source of income provided they adopt some sort of pay model. Could be a smart move! Or, it could flop, of course. I'm no genie
I'll dare state this, however: it's all about the critical mass. If Microsoft are clever, they'll subtly make it about the boy-girl interaction. Powerful stuff, that!
I can see it now... a million gullible teens buying and installing Windows XP so they can test a beta. What an ingenius marketing plan.
The truth doesn't care what I think.
That's minutae!
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