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LGP Announces Game Development Project
michaelsimms writes "Linux Game Publishing is excited
to announce our newest project to increase the appeal of Linux gaming. We are sponsoring the development of a from-scratch Linux title! We are looking for developers to work in a team to produce this game, and we will be publishing the game they make! If you are interested, please follow the link to our detailed announcement and within there you will find the rules, requirements, and application process. If you have wanted to get into the gaming industry, if you love playing games, and if you are a creative thinker, not afraid of a challenge and a bit of risk, then you need to take a look." I don't know whether to be happy about anything that promotes Linux gaming, or disappointed that people are being asked to work on a commercial project without a salary.
A commercial game with no salary for developers? Count me out - in fact with that attitude I probably won't buy it either.
-- If it ain't broke - overclock it more.
Since they're not paying the developers (but are generously paying the publishing & distribution costs), why not open it up to a competition? Tell people, look, everyone can participate. The deadline for submitting your game is (DATE). After we receive all entries, we'll decide which is the killer Linux game and publish it.
Sounds better than simply, we're gonna choose 8 people and then let them come up with a game. Sometimes synergy in groups doesn't work that way.
Let individuals groups compete.
"We're sorry, but the website you're trying to reach has been disconnected."
There are a good many open source coders who work on projects without being paid to do so right now. What difference does it really make whether the end result is sold or given away? Some things get done simply because people have a passion for doing them, and whether freeware or commercial, the product could help Linux. Earn your money, put food on your table, and if you're still looking for a creative outlet, here's your opportunity!
How is this any different than the 10000 "Let's make a game!" posts seen on messageboards everywhere?
disappointed that people are being asked to work on a commercial project without a salary
In a way ANYONE who contributes to Linux is doing just that. When people like IBM et al selling product that in large part was written by individuals that will never be "paid" for their efforts, I don't see how this is any different. Is there anyone out there who contributes that thinks that their work won't eventually end up in a product that is sold (i.e. someone else will generate revenue from their efforts)?
Working on a game is a long long process, and more often than not, deadlines are missed and toward the ship date, everyone pulls the all nighters. But they get paid for it. I'm not saying that people won't do this, but I think it would be kind of hard to hold down the day job, which pays the bills, and still work on this project and come close to the deadlines.
Then again, I could be wrong.
You've gotten better at reading inane comments (300)!
Anyone have any idea of how effective LGP is at this? Does "worldwide" mean "HTTP downloads from around the world" or do they really have a shrink-wrapped, on the shelf capability?
I've sure as heck never seen a Linux-specific game on a shelf at Best Buy or some other place like that.
Because otherwise, well. The "we'll give you 70% of the revenue" is not so enticing. AFAIK the bulk of game sales is still through the retail channel, not online sales.
I'm genuinely interested - this looks like an Linux project that would be really worthwile to participate in (ie, it has a better than average possibility of turning a profit).
Open-Source/Free games for Linux will not solve the lack of games for Linux. The only way to get game developers to come to Linux is to develop a Direct-X like API that makes it easy to develop Linux-native games. Until that happens, Linux gaming will continue to revolve around WineX, id Software, Epic, and begging game companies to release Linux executables.
Given how unlikely it is that the Open-Source/Free software community could ever come together to make a decent cross-distro API, your best bet is to just subscribe to WineX.
I don't know whether to be happy about anything that promotes Linux gaming, or disappointed that people are being asked to work on a commercial project without a salary.
RedHat...IBM...And this is different from that way Linux itself is promoted, how?
ANNOUNCEMENT:
./ readership start developing products for me!
I'm taking applications for people to make a product for me. I'm much more flexible, in that it _doesn't have to be a game_. It could be anything. How about a new type of car? Or some sort of exciting new food product?
Anyway, i'll be happy to introduce the team to each other. Then you guys can get to work inventing something fantastic. I won't pay you or anything, you just get together somehow and do it. W00t
When you're done, give me a call. I'll look at it, and if I think its a product that can make money, i'll market it, sell it, and keep 30% of the profits from it. Think about it though, if you invent something worth 10 million dollars, you make SEVEN MILLION DOLLARS. Thats a lot of money.
If your product is crappy, I'm not going to try to sell it or anything. I have a life, you know.
Sound exciting? Well, it sure sounds exciting to me. In fact, i'm not going to limit it to a group of 8, i'm willing to let the entire
Godspeed and Good luck!
...their web server isn't getting paid either ;)
We are not asking people to work for free. The situation is the same as when ANY game company is started, but we are giving the people assistance and guaranteed publishing.
Imagine, if you start up a game development company with some of your friends, you wouldnt expect to be able to go up to a game publisher and say 'hey, pay me every week and I'll make you a game'. In fact you'd be VERY lucky if even they reply to your phone call when you offered them a completed game.
The people working on this project will be starting a new company, but instead of the uncertainty, the 'is it worth our carrying on' - they can KNOW that they have a publisher, and they can KNOW it will get onto the shelves if they can get it finished.
Yes, its a risk, but it could pay them bigtime - if it works.
Tux Games. Your complete source for native Linux games.
Developers are obliged to make the minimum 10 hours a week commitment...
Let's see here, 8 people working at 10 hours a week. Is LGP also managing the team working on Duke Nukem Forever?
The difference is everything.
I work on FOSS because I believe in freedom.
I would rather money didn't exist, so I don't want to put my efforts towards freedom into something the promotes consumerism.
(If they only charge for distribution 'costs', that's ok)
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
I've used the term Rock Band companies before based on the high school rock band.
A bunch of kids get together and decide on a 'bitchin name for their band.
Then they scribble it on their bass drum.
Then, they actually start thinking about the music.
Looks like they're doing the same thing here. The first thing they have scheduled is to think of the name for the company, (and make sure you can grab the domain name!!!) then it looks like part 2 of the agenda is to invent a new genre of computer game. Well, wouldn't I like to be a fly on the wall in THAT meeting!
And what role does LGP play as far as leadership goes? If they see the team, leader and all, going down a path they don't like, can they pull rank? Then what? At any time can they keep the idea for the game, toss all 8 programmers, and bring in a fresh batch?
As I apply for jobs I find myself writing several times a day that a hacker who is passionate about what he's doing is 100x more productive than an average schmoe looking for a paycheck. Figure out a way to get a bunch of hackers together who are passionate about an idea *first*, and *then* keep them glued together with the paycheck. Not the other way around.
I think that if you want to do this, then find 8 friends that you trust and respect and then do the exact same thing -- name a company, think of an idea, and code the hell out of it. THEN, maybe, once you've got a demo, go talk to LGP.
www.HearMySoulSpeak.com
Next you'll be saying that people will just donate their work to, oh, I dunno, say create an entire operating system from scratch.
We all know that that will never work.
There is much pleasure to be gained in useless knowledge.
Dear Gannoc,
I have devised a wonderful method for quickly factoring large prime numbers. I'm sure this discovery is worth quite a good bit of money but I have no knowledge as to how to go about marketing my idea or even patenting it. I would love to share my money with you, and maybe your friends too.
Thanks
do not read this line twice.
They are offering peoples the opportunity to write a game for Linux.
That's great in my opinion, even if the developers do not get paid.
I mean, no one ever got paid for creating Tux Racer? Are do they?
So, they don't get paid, but LPG offers to pay for the publishing AND the marketing.
In doing so, they encounter the risk of LOOSING money.
If the title do not sell well, THEY will lost money, not the developers.
BUT, they also state that they will give 70% of the money made out of selling the game and keep the remaining to pay for the afore mentionned publishing/marketing cost.
How can people see this as wrong is beyong my understanding.
Peoples work on project for free because they like it, for fun, to learn, etc. etc. and no one complains about it.
Now, a company offers those same people the chance to make money out of this work and all you can say is that they are bad?
As much as I like the free software community, at times I have much troubles understanding what all of you value so much.
Is it really "free speech" and "alternatives" or is it ONLY "free as in beer"?!?
I'd rather be sailing...
According to the text file they are looking for 8 programmers and 0 designers at this point. So, the programmers will have to do the design. No offence to programmers regarding their ability to design stuff, but, seriously, isn't this a bit typical for Linux-related projects? (I'm not trying to be flamebait)
Design is just as important as programming when it comes to games and should not be considered at first in the last stage of development. Mind, powerful game engines like Quake II are already open under the GPL, so it wouldn't even be necessary to code everything from scratch if you are lazy (or clever).
What I want is a game that follows me places. Sometimes I'm at a terminal, sometimes I have a laptop (wired or not), sometimes a PDA, sometimes a cell phone. I want a game that takes advantage of as many of those as possible. A game that, when I'm not at one of those gadgets, has me thinking about what to do next time I am. A game that I can talk to my friends about, not in the past tense of "Dude, so I was playing Unreal last night..." but rather in the present, because the game is constantly going on and I'm using my friends' input as part of my strategy toward winning.
There was such a game going around in 2001, sponsored by EA, but I forget the name. While playing you would get various emails and phone messages giving you clues about the game's progression. But I guess 9/11 had something to do with it's cancellation. I never got a chance to join.
Anyway, that's the kind of game I'd be pushing were I to join this project. After all, where is Linux big? Servers, and embedded devices. If you go straight for the userinterface / graphics route, and don't end up at Windows, you're gonna die in the market. Come up with an innovative reason for why your game is a Linux game in the first place, and help the long term cause (getting more people onto Linux) rather than just providing a toy to the people who already have Linux (and know where to get all the free stuff anyway).
www.HearMySoulSpeak.com
For those that have always dreamed about making a good (and popular) game, it's not always about salary. I think that the fame and pursuant job offers for making a free game would more than make up for the lack of salary during development. If every 15-year-old was picking your title up off the shelf/net and saying "coool" - reading your name in the credits - don't you think that would be a fairly rewarding experience in itself?
I'll probably get trolled for this. Oh well. Troll me if ya gotta if you really wanna miss the point.
I'm sorry to be the one to say it, but as you've set up this process, you've doomed yourselves to failure.
Hiring the programmers first and the designers, artists, later, you're putting the cart before the horse.
You don't start making a moving by hiring actors. There's a script. A director. A lot of storyboarding. Conceptual Design. Location planning. Scene planning. Shot planning. You know, for the most part, how every piece fits together before there's any action in front of the camera.
A game doesn't start with programmers. A game starts with an idea. A concept. A concept that is then fleshed out by writers, artists, etc... Quite possibly one or two programmers/developers with a knowledge of whatever game engine will be used (and/or maybe helped choose the appropriate one in the first place.) are available to consult with the conceptual team and prototype some things along the way. But the code is more than likely the LAST thing to be written.
It's a shame. It sounds like an interesting project. It's one I'd certainly like to lend my artistic talents, writing, and imagination to. But it's going to fail unless things are done in the right order. You can't tell 8 programmers "make a game, we'll make it pretty and give it a plot and music and a look, etc... later." You've got to take the proper time to conceptualize your game _before_ you get programmers on-board.
Ed R.Zahurak
You know, oblivion keeps looking better every day.
Maybe it is just me, but is a game for linux really marketable? How many linux-only games have turned a profit? How many linux ports of other games have sold enough copies to make up for the porting effort?
How do you market a game to users of an OS that:
A) Is currently focused on servers
B) When "on the desktop," are being run (in general) by people who want all of their software to be free (beer and speech)
C) Is planning on making it harder for hardware vendors to create/distribute closed software in the form of drivers
If this ever gets off the ground (low chance), and if it makes it to completion (extrememly low chance), would it even sell enough to make up for the marketing costs? I worked on a game for free for a while, during which time I had a day job which was VERY slack (this was not long after working on a game for an actual game dev house/publisher). Even so, it took many months to get to the point where we even had an idea of the kinds of tools that would be required to generate/integrate the content into the engine.
I'd love to see this work, but realistically, it won't. Not at this point.
All Your Memory Are Belong To Java
6 teams of 8 programmers each. Give the teams names like "The Lightning Crew" and "Project: Dynamite".
Then, let them compete with each other in a bitter struggle to earn the affection of LGP by developing the best game.
The contest can be punctuated by weekly challenges. Say, two teams have to play a UT2003 team deathmatch against each other... WITH THE MONITORS UPSIDE DOWN. The winners get use of a rendering farm for a day. The losers lose their internet connection for 48 hours.
Or, the teams need to rot13 encode the first page of Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy by hand, while a naked man squirts lemon juice in their eyes. The winner receives their choice of an O'Reilly book. The loser probably goes blind for a day.
Or, a chosen member of each team has to write a functioning HTTP server (text only!), while being forced to watch the goatse.cx website - Clockwork Orange style. The winner receives a 2.0ghz P4 system from Gateway.com. The loser has his liver pecked out by ravens.
Slowly but surely, a product emerges and is judged. Now _thats_ something that will propel the linux gaming movement forward. Hop to it.
Here's my business contribution:
"Synergy"
Now, I expect to be entitled to a cut in whatever you end up manufacturing of course...
Why not post the actual contract details BEFORE people waste their time on this shit?
It seems to me that there's the question of ownership of the code written, as well as future rights for derivative work.
Also, some jurisdictions (Quebec is now one of them as of a few weeks ago) forbid the "employing" of people on a project for less than a guaranteed minimum wage. Check your jurisdiction - you may be able to collect a wage from them after signing the contract, as such "if we make money, you'll (maybe) make money"!
In summary - "show me the money".
Thanks for picking this one up, its always nice to hear someone say we have a reputation for being honest and solid. Thanks! {:-)
Yes, you are correct, we have paperwork ready for people that are chosen for the project. We would never ask people to work without an agreement in writing, otherwise, it is as dangerous for us as for them.
In effect, the agreement structre will be
LGP will have an agreement with the dev company (which will be a legal entity, I will have a UK Limited company formed for the development).
LGP will pay that company.
That company will have agreements with the developers. The developers, having 90% stake of the company, can then completely control the money received without LGP being able to interfere.
LGP cannot fail to pay that company, we would be in breach of contract and the company could take LGP to court and claim the money. It will be watertight. The documents are drawn up already.
And as a final note, it is *so* not in our interests to screw anyone over. The long term goal of this is to help form a self-sustaining game development company that is Linux-friendly. This will give is all more games, most likely published through LGP, so we would be stabbing ourselves in the foot if we screwed the group over.
Tux Games. Your complete source for native Linux games.
Because Advanced Server 2.1 is selling very well. Everyone has a choice to make as to what they do. If you desperately want to get into the game industry, what better way than to demonstrate your ability by building a game for free.
...
As I recall the developers of CS (counter strike) have made out quite well and as a owner of Half Life I've never paid a dime for CS.
Just because you would prefer money doesn't exist doesn't mean everyone feels they are being exploited by the system (consumerism as you put it).
If you want to believe the world would be a better place if money didn't exist and everyone worked on only the projects they want to work on, there would be no sanitation workers, no one at taco bell, no one delivering mail,
Socialism only works in SciFi. As much as I wish the opposite were true, socialism is a joke. The only way people work is if there is a tangible reward on the other side (99.99% that is).
Ok, look. I'm going to have to admit to being a little naive here and .... why is my rear end suddenly getting warmer, please put the flamethrowers down until *after* the post. I don't really understand why so many people are so caught up in complaining about this.
I don't play games, typically, so I'm not your average raving fanatic ready at all times with my tome of useless time line knowledge on the whole of the gaming industry. However, I know that it is big business, and I also know that manufacturers are beginning to look in the direction of the gaming developers as the next level of high line computing.
But did Id software start out, fully formed. Leaping from the bushes, games firmly in boxes hidden beneath trenchcoats ready to make nefarious deals? Psst. Buddy .... need a game? One of the great things about online forums is no one really knows how old anyone else is, until statements like the one I am about to make are made. Then one dates themselves. But, I remember a time back in the days of dinosaurs when we had these little programs called "Shareware."
I seem to remember that the original Wolfenstein 3D was shareware. Wasn't it out before Doom and Quake? The first 3D shooter of the genre? Even though Doom was the biggie, and apparently built modern gaming as we know it. The ol' Wolf was pretty "bad" back then. For all the youngsters, "bad" is a term indicating something was really "rad," "hip," or "cool." Which are all terms to indicate "Good." God I hope "good" is still in Webster's Dictionary.
These games, you see, were on a floppy diskette. You could pick them up all over the place, flea markets, the gas station, the grocery store. I kid you not, you could buy Wolfenstein 3D from my local grocery store. Then there were other true Id favorites. Duke Nukem. Which had three parts, or seperate games, if memory serves. All of them shareware. Written by some really imaginative people in a garage somewhere. All they ever asked for was like $10 - $15 bucks for a game. You mail them a payment, and they send you a code to unlock all of the game, or send you the floppy with the full game already on it.
Don't you think that all of these "High line Gaming Developers who would Shape the industry and our world as we know it" had day jobs? All of them did, I'm sure of it. Even if there day job was coding another project (maybe even another game) They weren't feeding their families on this. They were using it for the exact same thing that I read out of this.
A chance.
Plain and simple. They wanted to be noticed, wanted their software to be used. Wanted their games to be played. And shareware was so much more than games, they had spreadsheet programs, comic book databases, you name it there was a shareware program that could do it. Oh wait .... that is kind of like the GNU/GPL/OpSo software today. Software all written for a chance to get noticed and have the opportunity to do something really really cool. By really imaginative people.
I can't help but read through all the posts that are saying things like "This sucks." or "You suck." or even "You want me to code you something for free so you can make money off of it." and think to myself. How disappointing. No vision in any of them. Not a single imaginative soul in the lot. You don't seem able to see things in the larger perspective. This isn't about working for free. Hell, it can be argued that all of us work for free. It is about attaching *your* name to a project. Giving *your* John Hancock to the world of gaming. Something that Rare and InfoGrams and Sega and hell even Microsoft might notice
This is about screaming I to the world. Well I say I damnit. Crazy script kiddies that don't know how to do anything that doesn't come with instructions. If you can't click next, next, next then you think you can't do it. You have to have it all spelled out for you because you as a world are afraid, you're all terrified of failing. This has nothing to do with money, it has everything to do with knowing the whole world is laughing at you. But you know what. Sign me up.
That's right. Sign me up. I don't know a thing about C, or C++. I know bash shell scripting, I'm a UNIX administrator. I know some PERL and a little BASIC. Go on, laugh at me. That's right. I used to code games in BASIC for the Commodore 64. Bring it on. Because I'm not afraid. Whether you think that you can, or that you can not, you are right! And I tell you I can. I'll learn C, I'll learn C++, put my name on the list. Bill it as Ed Booher's Optika World VII. But give me my chance!
Mr. DeVille, I'm ready for my close up.
"Genius may shine aloof and alone, like a star, but goodness is social, and it takes two men and God to make a Brother."
...is that the people who are generally writing the code, WANT to be writing it, not that they're being paid to do so.
Since this is a free project, why would you want to limit yourself to such a small group? When people are donating their time (and if they're any good they likely have "real" jobs for 70% of their day) for free there's no good reason to impose limits on group size. If you get 1 hour a day from everyone, EVERY DAY, then you will have gotten 7 hours a week from the group...that's less then 1 day of real-life work, and certainly much less then the 12 hour days many game devs put in.
Why not do something more like this (Using a traditional CRPG as an example)?
2-3 Producers, with a shared vision, who together could overlap enough to hopefully catch issues that'll derail/delay the project and help coordinate the dev teams.
2+ developers for every part of the system, a standard breakdown would be like:
3+ devs for the graphics engine
2+ for the scripting engine
1-2 for the asset management system (definitely needed when artists/sound/level/content makers get involved)
As many people as you can for the various editing tools that'll be released to the content guys.
8 people given 5 years at 1 hour a day may produce pong, or maybe even zork, but I wouldn't expect anything anyone would ever buy. Why limit yourself?