Game Theory at 190mph

Hard to explain to CS people... by caferace · 2003-02-23 17:45 · Score: 5, Insightful

There aren't a lot of people that are hardcore techs and also like NASCAR. There are even fewer that are hardcore techs, like NASCAR and also race themselves (like myself).

Racing is a weird dance between tech and mental, especially on an amateur scale where you are the mechanic, crew chief, transport driver, racer and the lunch chef.

It is indeed a HUGE mental game, but in my case (motorcycle roadracing) it is mostly played with yourself. The organization I race with (AFM) is stricly road courses, and not a lot of drafting is required but the technical challenges are many and varied during a race weekend.

Give it a shot sometimes before you knock it. Racing requires hugely varied skills and a whole boatload of maturity and perserverance.

-jim

Re:Hard to explain to CS people... by kfg · 2003-02-23 18:03 · Score: 5, Interesting

American racing really grew out of the county fair "thrill show." Naturally this led to their being held on horse tracks in front of a grandstand where the audience could always see all of the action.

The basic philosophical premise has always been man to man combat. Ben Hur in the modern age.

European racing grew out of an entirely different concept. There the idea was the "test." Pitting the machines of different manufacturers against each other to see which one could best negotiate its way between two points over the road. The driver was considered largely incidental. There merely because someone had to be there to operate the machine.

While the two styles have converged somewhat over the course of a century, their unique orginal philosophies are still evident as they are performed today.

As well as in their respective audiences.

KFG

Re:Game Theory? by splatbang · 2003-02-23 17:50 · Score: 5, Informative

Game Theory (GT) is a mathematical field all about choices: given a set of knowledge, build a set of choices that will lead to the greatest expected outcome.

GT can be applied to games, since games generally consist of a set of choices. But the term is more often heard in economic circles: stock market, insurance calculations, portfolio planning... But don't limit it to that either. GT can be applied to most any sort of competition, such as competition for food sources between predator species, or trying to find the shortest/quickest way through the lines at a supermarket.

A number of different factors influence your choices. How much information do I know? How much information does my opponent(s) know? Do they know I know what they know? Can I influence my opponent's choices such that we both get a better outcome? All these things will change my strategy.

This study only concerns drafting tracks. by Blaede · 2003-02-23 18:13 · Score: 5, Interesting

A quick primer in ultra basic physics: Assuming all equipment is equal, two or more cars running nose to tail (starting at about 130 MPH+) can move faster than a single car with the same amount of horsepower, due to the drafting effect.

At two tracks on the NASCAR schedule (Daytona and Talladega), restrictor plates are used (I won't get into the religious war as to why the plates are used). The effect is that due to the cars being "underpowered" as (compared to the circuit's grip and traction potential), the cars do not maximize the track, they are able to negotiate the entire course without having to lift or brake. Due to the artificially enhanced draft effect, no car is able to pull away from the pack. Hence there is a continual chess game using this effect to work your way to the front, for gaining points for leading, and to be at the right spot for the last lap. Part of the chess game is teaming up to create temporary alliances to maximize the draft.

While the draft effect is a crucial part at other high speed tracks on the circuit (Michigan, Charlotte, etc), the effect is the most important aspect at Talladega and Daytona.

Re:This study only concerns drafting tracks. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-02-23 18:39 · Score: 5, Interesting

>Assuming all equipment is equal, two or more
>cars running nose to tail (starting at about 130
>MPH+)

I don't think you really need the speed to see this effect. Truckers see more efficiency with a trailer than a cab, and do better with tandem trailers. They like to draft each other, saves fuel.
Re:This study only concerns drafting tracks. by delstar+dotstar · 2003-02-23 22:59 · Score: 5, Funny

Truckers see more efficiency with a trailer than a cab, and do better with tandem trailers. They like to draft each other, saves fuel.

Not just truckers, but regular cars as well. When I'm on the freeway, I get right behind another car so we both can save a little gas. To let them know I'm there, I beep my horn and flash my high beams.

For some reason, though, everyone I do this to gives me the finger. Some people, I swear.

You are correct.... by Blaede · 2003-02-23 18:53 · Score: 5, Interesting

...but being ultra nitpicky. The draft effect can definitely be measured at those speeds, but for meaningful use during NASCAR races you only can truly utilize it at the speeds I mentioned. When truckers utilize the effect, they have the luxury of long stretches of road. NASCAR drivers have at the most, 1 mile to make use of it (at tracks other than Dega/Daytona) before having to brake. Daytona and Talladega repesent the extreme use of this effect. At the other tracks, there is more emphasis of driver skill and equipment construction. At short tracks like Bristol and Martinsville (1/2 mile total), the draft effect (however tiny and measurable it is) is never something a driver even subconciously thinks to try to utilize.

restrictor plate 'racing' by Army+Eye · 2003-02-23 21:09 · Score: 5, Interesting

It is kind of frustrating to read articles like this because the action seen in the Daytona 500 is not indicative of NASCAR racing in general. Since the Daytona 500 is by far the biggest race and thus picks up the most casual viewers, there are many people getting to see true NASCAR action, but the very ugly restrictor place bastardization instead.

There are 36 races in the NASCAR season. Four of them, including the Daytona 500, are run with restrictor plates on the carburetors (which limits the horsepower). The effects that these plates have on the cars and the race are many, but the net effect is that they equalize the cars to a ridiculous degree. What this means is that the draft becomes the only away to get an advantage on another car and so you absolutely need a 'buddy' to run with you if you want to make a pass. This is the phenomenon that is explored in the Slate article.

Now, there are some interesting things that go on during a NASCAR restrictor plate race: the cooperation with opponents, the constant need of strategy, the frequent teamwork, etc. And hey, the game theory applications in the referenced articles are pretty neat. It is indeed a high-speed chess game. But as someone else already said here, one thing is it NOT, is racing.

Rest assured that most of the races in the NASCAR season still boil down to a good old fashioned "run the car as fast as you can, the best man wins". For sure, drafting strategy still comes into play in some of the other races on the larger tracks, but it's not the one and only thing that determines every position on the track. In this poster's opinion, it's a shame that the great Daytona 500 is sullied by restrictor plates.

Note: Restrictor plates were mandated by NASCAR as a safety measure, but the way they equalize everybody's speed causes extremely congested groups of cars, and that has led to some really huge crashes. One could argue that Dale Earnhardt's death is partly attributable to the restrictor plate rule. It's a very controversial issue.

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