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Five Years Later, Newton Still Going Strong

Posted by timothy on from the well-engineered dept.

CrezzyMan writes "Today is the five year anniversary of Apple's cancellation of the Newton platform. In spite of this, the Newton community has remained stronger than ever: it has even been the subject of academic research. In just the last few days, an IrCOMM stack and a new connection library have been released, on top of OS X syncing and 802.11b support."

23 of 299 comments (clear)

  1. I've still got mine. by Kenja · · Score: 2, Interesting

    To this day, no one has created a PDA device that is as natural to use as the Newton. I still keep mine around for notetaking which I then sync to MS word via a VB Script.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    1. Re:I've still got mine. by Dr+Caleb · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Proud Owner of a Newton 503. It still does my calendar, time accounting and notes to self.

      The only game on it is Lunar Lander, and I've got the LCARS Tricorder on it. Nothing like hitting the "Red Alert" button when the boss walks into a meeting.

      The company gave me an iPAQ, which I like. It has an IBM 1G microdrive that I use for movies while I travel. But it just isn't the same....

      --
      "History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme." Mark Twain
  2. Maybe... by dave+at+hostwerks · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Did Newton owners choose wrong or were they simply ahead of the curve?

    Remember, Grafitti was developed by Palm for Newton. Their device did not exist at that time.

    Without Newton, the technology and the marketplace for handhelds would not be what it is today.

    The fact that Newton was only available for five years and has had five more years of life post-Apple is the real story.

    --
    d a v e
    "Hmmm...upgrades."
    1. Re:Maybe... by Drakonian · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Without Newton, the technology and the marketplace for handhelds would not be what it is today.

      I disagree. Maybe I'll agree for the technology, but not the marketplace. Apple unfortunately completed missed the boat with regards to what the public wanted in a PDA, even though their offering was very cool.

      Now without Jeff Hawkins, the PDA market would not be what it is today. I'm sure everyone has heard the story about how he carried around a wood block in his pocket to get a feel for if it was usable. He'd actually pull it out and pretend scrawl on it at the appropriate time to get a feel for the proper weight and size. That is what the market wanted - a *small*, usable, electronic daytimer.

      --
      Random is the New Order.
    2. Re:Maybe... by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "Did Newton owners choose wrong or were they simply ahead of the curve?"

      Niether. Apple had a good machine there but there were prohibiting factors that prevented it from being a bigger success. (Too big for pockets, high price, etc...) I think Palm proved that the Newton was useful, it just needed a little tweaking.

      I'm a little surprised that Apple didn't invent the Palm Pilot before Palm did. Now that PDAs are all over the place, where's Apple's entry?

    3. Re:Maybe... by DdJ · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Remember, Grafitti was developed by Palm for Newton.
      Well, for Newton and for other PDAs of the day. I own two different versions of Graffiti, besides the one built into my PalmOS handhelds. I've got it on my Newtons, and I've got it on my Magic Cap PDAs (Sony PIC-1000 and PIC-2000A). It's nice to be able to switch among three very different PDAs and use Graffiti on all of them.
    4. Re:Maybe... by tuxedobob · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, there's been some speculation (which is probably only that, speculation) that Apple may re-enter the PDA market at some point. The Mac pundits seem to think it may grow out the iPod at some point.

      Perhaps at the moment, Apple doesn't think they would have anything better to offer. Some think that was the reason for Safari-- that Mac users didn't really like their browsers and/or that Apple could do better (which so far, they have.)

      Personally, I have limited use for a PDA. What I'd prefer to see is an iPod expanded to play more media files, such as movies. If they put in some sort of "QuickTime chip", instead of one that can only decode MP3's, they might have a cool little TV-ish thing. Unfortunately, that'd raise the price even higher, since you wouldn't want a B/W passive matrix for a screen for that.

    5. Re:Maybe... by cookiej · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Important point to remember -- Newton, Inc. was spun off before Jobs came back into power. They had a set of prototypes that would have addressed most of the big issues. The problem was that the Newton was John Scully's baby and Jobs was going to kill it no matter what. Instead of letting Newton, Inc. float on it's own, Jobs pulled it back into Apple and dismantled it under the guise of "retaining high-quality engineers."

      For those who think that the Palm would have been what it was before -- once Newton, Inc. was killed, every bright light (with the exception of Walter Smith and couple others who went other directions) on the Newton team went to work for Palm.

      P.S. Graffitti was a 3rd part app that was a resonable substitute until the Handwriting Recognition was perfected. It was not an Apple product, IIRC.

  3. i dont get it. by nailchipper · · Score: 2, Interesting

    i met a guy who had one of these things, and i just dont get it. a PDA now can do so much more. and laptops are so small. i honestly think its the coolness factor of it being rare and a collectors item.

    what would be great is if apple revives the newton, to go with with their new style/os.

    --


    what is nailchipper?
    1. Re:i dont get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      i just dont get it. a PDA now can do so much more...

      First, the Newton was a PDA. It was one of the first PDAs. Before the Newton, there were those pocket Casios about ten years before. I'm sure there were a couple of others, but these are the main ones I can think of.

      Second, I'm assuming that you are talking about PDAs of the Palm/PocketPC variety. Keep in mind that these didn't come along until about 5 years ago, which is about when the Newton was exiting the industry. The Newton was developed 5 years before the devices you call PDAs.

      Furthermore, Palm and PocketPC still lack many of the features that the Newton had: Inkwell, exceptional GUI, easy synching, and, of course, elegant design.

      Considering these things:
      - It was on the forefront of PDA technology, and currently available PDAs are only just now starting to include the breadth of features that were available 5-7 years ago for the Newton
      - PDAs today still haven't caught up to the Newton's handwriting recognition ability. PDAs still require the user to use Grafitti.
      - Had development of the Newton continued until today, you can bet that it would make the PDA market a much more exciting space

      If you want to do a fair comparison, you can get close by looking at the last Newton and the first Palm side-by-side. The Newton blew away the Palm in every category except for size. In every other category, all other PDAs have only just now caught up to the features that were introduced in the Newton 5+ years ago.

      What killed it was its size and the bad reputation that developed when its handwriting recognition was lousy in the early models. In every other way, the Newton outshone its counterparts for several years after its death.

      This is why so many people admire the device.

      That said, I think the right choice was made when they chose to discontinue it. In spite of what the Newton had to offer, it wasn't making the company any money, and it added more complexity to the product line of a company that was in a dangerous death spiral. It was time to hack off the extra crap, regain solid footing and build back up with a more solid base.

  4. Since when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    did AMD make Newtons? (headline icon). Or was that just a whole piece of Apple's history that passed me by?

  5. Once upon a time... by 5n3ak3rp1mp · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I lusted after Newtons.
    Then the PalmPilot came out.

    I realized I couldn't fit a brick in my pocket.

    So I got a PalmPilot Personal. Then a V.

    Just last week I upgraded to a Tungsten. It kicks butt.

    That said, I'd still like to have a used Newton to play with... I'm sure half the appeal is the community aspect (which is also part of the reason why I like Macs still...)

    But I can't go partying in NYC with a friggin Newton in my pocket!

  6. $100 on Ebay... by $$$$$exyGal · · Score: 2, Interesting
    It looks like they are still selling for like $100 on Ebay. Wow! You can get a 1 year-old palm for way cheaper than that.

    --sex

    --
    Very popular slashdot journal for adul
  7. I switched.. .then switched back.... by jbuilder · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I use my Newton MP2100 daily. In fact it's sitting here next to me as I type this. I put Linux docs and HOWTO's relevant to my work on it that I need on it and well as various notes on Java programming. When SJ ended the Newton I tried other PDA's: CE, PalmOS (I stuck with that one for about 4 years) but in the end the *only* PDA I have *ever* used that allowed me to truly store and manage the information I needed for daily life was my Newton. So I switched back.

    Now, Paul Guyot at http://www.kallisys.com has made an ATA driver for CF cards and instead of having a slot with a 20MB card for storage I have a slot with 128MB of storage divided up as 4 32MB stores.

    Need support? Not a problem. The community is still alive and well. Sign up for the Newtontalk list at http://www.newtontalk.net and ask away. We get PalmOS converts daily signing up.

    Surfing the web and checking email works fine on the Newton. I can even chat with people via IM programs like Jabber and ICQ or on the IRC. In addition to that I get weeks of use out of a set of batteries.

    Now would I *like* for something newer/smaller/faster/prettier to come along? Sure. But so far nothing comes close to managing information for me the way my Newt does.

    And unlike the Simpsons episode's depiction, when I type "Beat up Martin" it digitizes it into "Beat up Martin"... I really was hoping to see "Eat up Martha" but no such luck.. ;)

    --
    Polymorphism -- It's what you make of it.
  8. Re:It transcends the Palm, really by BWJones · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I absolutely agree. I currently use a Palm, but the Newton 120 that I still have in many ways is a much more sophisticated system and I even seem to remember that there are folks running websites from their Newtons.

    The Newton had real possibilities of getting Apple into the business market that they so dearly want to get into by utilizing it as a vertical market device for medical, GIS, warehouse and other markets. If they were smart about it, they would do exactly this in the very near future and use a new Newton like tablet with business markets they could be very strong in.

    --
    Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
  9. Re:You're wrong by doconnor · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If it's just the interface that is so great why doesn't someone re-create it on a modern PDA like a Palm or WinCE device? There isn't really anything that prevents someone form designing what ever interface they like for applications on these devices.

  10. but I wish it weren't.... by WillAdams · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Also meant to say,

    Even though Apple innaugurated it (pen computing), and they could suddenly be way ahead if they'd just dust off the Newton and re-issue it (w/ native Mac OS X synching / integration, QuickTime / MP3 support and a few other things).

    But Steve Jobs wouldn't go for that, and he's assured that Apple's not in a position to do that.

    Bummer man.

    --
    Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
  11. I've switched back and forth a few times... by William+R.+Dickson · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I started with a Newton MP100, upgraded to a 120, upgraded again to a 130. The 100 is framed on my wall (it's a beautiful machine). The 120 was handed down to my then-girlfriend. (I bought all of these used; I'm not rich.)

    I sold the 130 about three years ago and bought a Visor Deluxe. My feeling then was that Palms sure as hell weren't as good as Newtons, but given the smaller size, they were good enough at the things I wanted to do.

    A year ago, a bunch of MP2100's went up for sale on eBay at ridiculously low prices; my wife bought me one for my birthday. I played with it for a couple days and immediately shelved my Visor. The 2100 had so much more speed and power, not to mention storage, that the elegance of the system didn't merely compare favorably to the more simplistic Palm, it totally destroyed it. Since I had to carry two devices anyway -- PDA and cell phone -- I didn't mind so much if the PDA was larger, as long as it was much, much better. The 130 wasn't enough better to justify the size; the 2100 was, and then some.

    Over the past year, I've added an 802.11 card and ethernet, synced the Newton with my OS X box from twenty miles away via TCP/IP, and generally been extremely blown away by the inventiveness and support of the Newton community.

    Now, I'm in the process of switching back to Palm -- someone put SprintPCS visorphone modules up on eBay, and I got one for $7. It's not as good a phone as my old Samsung, but it's a good enough phone. It's not as good a PDA as the Newton 2100 by a long shot, but it's a good enough PDA. And the fact that I can now carry one device rather than two clinches the deal.

    But I'll be carrying the 2100 when I travel; its large screen (with excellent backlighting), speed, and network capabilities make it a perfectly viable substitute for a laptop when I go on trips; the Visor doesn't come close to that.

    I wish Newton, Inc. had been left to stand or fall on its own, rather than being spun back into Apple. A Newton OS device the size of a Palm, or even a bit bigger, combined with a mobile phone, would be a dream come true.

  12. Re:Still nothing like it! by cookiej · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Gotta disagree on it being impractical.

    Is there anyone who *REALLY* takes notes with the Palm/PPC Form Factor? When I whip out my MP2100, everyone in the room looks at the screen size with envy.

    The Palm and iPAQ are great tools for tracking your calendar and contact management. If that's all you need, then a Newton would certainly be overkill.

    If you wanted to replace your planner completely, then a Newton would be for you. The Handwriting Recognition has yet to be surpassed. One more case (see Apple II) of Steve Jobs blowing the market due to his arrogance... They were at least 4 years ahead of EVERYONE.

    They had palm-sized prototypes. I heard they even had a COLOR prototype.... in 1997! Yeah, Steve. No future in the handheld market...

    *sigh* You'd think I'd be less bitter after 5 years. Nope.

  13. Re:I was a Newton developer by RevAaron · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Maybe when the Newton first came out you couldn't do C on the Newton... but you have been able to for years. Apple put out a MPW extension/setup that lets you do C/C++ development for the Newton. However, you can't write entire apps in C/C++, the GUI still laid out in NewtonScript, but you can defiinately compile to native ARM code. There is a slick disk image on Unna.org for getting into C++ Newton development. There is also an assembler for the Newton which runs on the Newton itself, if that is your thing.

    --

    Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
  14. Not necessarily by dangermouse · · Score: 3, Interesting
    With networked components, this is only true if you maintain the entire network.

    For instance, if you ditch the OS on your PC that allows you to take advantage of certain functions on your handheld, your handheld has effectively lost functionality without itself failing.

    With the continuing growth in the importance of interconnectedness to the devices and systems we use every day, your statement is quickly becoming less generally true.

  15. Re:You're wrong by RevAaron · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The Newton's stregnths lie in a lot more than it's UI. In fact, the UI is a pretty small part of what the Newton did that was innovative.

    And there are/have been projects trying to recapture the Newton's spirit. There is Dynapad, my own project, aiming for a PDA system with similar strengths as the Newton. It is not a project trying to have the same UI appearance. However, that is something I'd like eventually. See my sig for info. Contrary to the page, active development is proceeding- it is hard to do too much working a lot and going to school. Email if you want to know where I am at, but haven't relesaed.

    There was also an attempt at a NewtonScript system emulator that would look, feel and act like a regular Newton, but that hasn't been touched for years.

    --

    Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
  16. Re:Question: by RevAaron · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "Perhaps there's some fatal flaw or incompatibility in the newton?"
    Yep. The batteries run out sometimes.

    While I realize this was meant as sarcasm, there is some irony in it. The Newton is one of the few PDAs that has a backup battery. When the battery dies on the Newton, you don't loose everything, like you do on most WinCE and PalmOS PDAs. Which is absolutely retarded. At least the Jornada 720 has a backup battery- not all PDA manufacturers are absolutely stupid.

    --

    Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad