Taiwan Forces MS To Cut Prices, Unbundle Software

bev_tech_rob writes "This article from ZDNet reports how Microsoft has agreed to cut prices on their software after a backlash from the country's effort to crack down on piracy. Seems the citizens were forced to obtain pirated copies due to the high cost and having to buy software they did not need to get the parts they DID need."

Comments

Seems like someone got it right

[Anonymous Coward]

Too bad the US couldn't learn a little from Taiwan...

Hopefully

[moc.tfosorcimgllib]

Hopefully after they see the positive effect this has on the consumer, they will start to do the same elsewhere.

I am serious.

No really, I'm being serious.

Similar situation...

[Yoda2]

I was once forced by pirates to use Microsoft software. Will that get me any sort of discount?

Not just Taiwan

[Joe the Lesser]

Seems the citizens were forced to obtain pirated copies due to the high cost

This is a problem most people under 24 seem to have...

So ...

[frodo from middle ea]

What do i do ?
Bash Mircosoft ?
Praise Taiwan ?
Hail Linux ? (oops ... GNU/Linux )
Seriously, I miss those days when slashdot's M$ stories were like ....Windows XP kills your kids, go with linux
So easy to pick a side, now with these ambiguous stories, I don't know which side i am on.

Hooray!

[DarklordJonnyDigital]

We're still not paying for Windows, though.

DarklordJonnyDigital, officially surfing on Debian ;)

Re:What?

[Raul654]

Yes, but while they're free, they don't necessarily do the job. Despite what many on slashdot say, open source is not the end-all be-all of software. More to the point -- what are they supposed when someone sends them .doc files?

(I fully expect to be modded down for this, but what the hell. I have karma to burn)

Re:Visual Studio .NET

[stoolpigeon]

It doesn't matter right now anyway - as there are no jobs available for when you graduate.

I would look somewhere other than programming to spend your education dollars.

.

Boohoo

[MrWa]

Things are expensive. It definitely would be nice to buy Windows by the piece instead of all at once. I can see it now:

Yes...I would like the Windows operating system, without the remote exploits and BSOD bugs. Also, add in Media Player but not the consumer activity record keeping feature - I dont' really need that.
As for Office: yes, please include a copy Powerpoint, Excel, and Outlook (without the automatic emailing to all my address book entries feature.)
Thank you.

Re:High cost of software

[Un1v4c]

Of course...

"In other news, Microsoft announced it will be raising the price of Office XP approximately 26.7 percent in the US."

Expensive bundles?

[bytesmythe]

The article complains about software being packaged in expensive bundles.

Just looking up the prices for MS software on Outpost.com, Word costs $340 and Excel costs $320, but Office itself only costs $440. Office also includes Powerpoint (another $320 by itself) and Outlook ($100 by itself).

Even for just one component, you're far better off buying the bundle here in the US. How much is the bundle mark-up that they're complaining about?

Russia has MS source!

[wizardmax]

Microsoft will also share its Windows source code as part of its Government Security Program, which allows governments to adapt the software and test its ability to fend off hackers.

Russia was the first country to take advantage of the program in January. The source code--blueprints of Microsoft's dominant operating systems--is one of the world's most tightly protected corporate secrets.

Knowing russian social structure, (considering I used to live there...) that source will quicly become public.

KremlinXP anybody?

Re:WAR3Z

[tomhudson]

The source code is pretty much useless.

Think about it. 50 million lines of code. If you were to read 1 line per second, 8 hours a day, 6 days a week, year-round, it would take you 5-1/2 years just to read it all!

Then you'd have to understand it.

By then it would be obsolete, anyway, because it would be 1 or 2 generations behind.

If you've ever gone through even a 5,000 page program, you know that just getting yourself oriented to that you know where to look takes TIME.

Back in the '80s Microsoft was in the habit of screwing up/obfuscating the symbol tables on the software they released - until the courts made them stop that practice.

Re:What?

[fobbman]

Open Office for Windows reads .doc files just fine.

The US doesn't have to

[Lysol]

Cuz we can afford it. In a lot of other countries around the world where a worker only brings home $1200 a year (and that's rich for some villagers in China), how can they afford a $100-$300USD app suite? Enter the five finger or low cost piracy. Plain and simple economics, not ethics. And since when is M$ an ethical company anyway?

Re:The US doesn't have to

[mikio71]

if they're using a computer, which has been sold to them from the back of a truck, they probably need an operating system Seriously speaking, it's all boils down to economics. While working in Taiwan, I was taking home a whopping US$11,000 / yr., and people generally working in the same salary range as me all had computers in their home. Why? The hardware is cheaper since most of its made locally anyway, and the software is all pirated. Think about the DVD or console gaming market. They price fix by using region encoding. I mean... for Region 2, for example, how are countries such as Japan and S. Africa, lumped into the same region as Europe? Or how is Mexico excluded from the US/Canada Region 1? It's all about the pricing and cost of living. So a person living in the US, could not go into Mexico to buy a cheaper DVD, and play it back on his own DVD player in America (of course, this isn't exactly true, but let's take the average consumer who doesn't hack his box). M$ is essentially in the same boat, but instead of region encoding, it uses language to regionally encode its software. For the most part, the average US computer buyer probably doesn't want a machine in Chinese, while the average Taiwanese computer buyer probably doesn't want a machine in English. M$ can essentially fix the price in Taiwan to a lower price point, and get more people to buy the software at the lower price, rather than selling it at a higher price point, but getting a handful of sales instead. While lowering the cost may lower M$ price margin, I figure that the volume being bigger would make its profit much higher. On the other hand, this is Taiwan we're talking about... It's a very price sensitive area, so the pirates will always be around. The trick is for M$ to lower their prices to a point that the difference between buying a legit copy over a pirate copy is trivial. The problem is that with the prices of hardware and media coming down as they are, the pirates will always be able to produce their wares for pennies, and it's all a matter of how much inventory they can keep in stock, without cutting into their profit margin, however minimal it may be after M$ puts a price cut. In the end, people should probably just migrate over to Linux, and not worry about licensing and payments as much, but I figure that's not gonna happen at anytime soon.

Re:The US doesn't have to

[That_Dan_Guy]

I lived in Taiwan for 5 years. I was highly paid as an English teacher- about 15 bucks an hour for maybe 20 hours a week.

When I heard computers calling me back I went up to AsusTek looking for a job writing manuals. Y'know how much they offered the first time? 12,000 USD a year plus "stock options." When I let my friends know I thought that was pathetic and turned it down they were amazed. People over there live on less, and dream about working at AsusTek. They have computers and cars. No S***! They just all live with their parents (my brother in law makes a bit more as an MCSE sysadmin at Viewsonic, has a PocketPC, a color couple cell phones, a car and counts himself really darned well off)

Their final offer was 25,000, no stock options (the "options" could not be exercised until after you quit, you got a lot of 1000 after two years, and a lot every year thereafter. The "option" was not given to you, but kept in the President's safe and given to you when you quit if he liked you)

Prices used to be a lot less for hardware over there. But that was when it was 25nt to the dollar. Last time I checked prices are about the same (if it costs a 100 US here, it costs within 3% of that there).

Re:Robbin Hood

[Anonymous Coward]

Because all operating systems are written by programmers, I assume that any operating system is much smarter than me. Thus, any good operating system should try to outsmart me by restricting my options at every turn. Linux, like all versions of Unix, is lousy at restricting my options because at the command line virtually any operation can be performed with ease. (For example, 'rm -rf /win' could 'delete an entire mounted directory, with no popup window warnings whatsoever.)

I'm proud to say that there is no such danger in XP. Windows pop up when I want to make a change, and then more pop up to ask if I'm sure I want the change. Thankfully, Windows XP looks after my computer's well-being by occasionally switching configuration settings from the way I want them to what the OS programmers think they might probably ought to be. Boy, I'm just impressed with how smart they are. Once I learned to live with whatever the default settings are on any new hardware I install, I can't say the number of hours I have saved.

I use that spare time to reboot my Windows XP machine multiple times a day. Technical support personnel recommend that I do it regularly-- kind of like brushing my teeth. To help remind me of this necessity, windows pop up to tell me to reboot whenever I make a configuration change. By now my machine is minty fresh, I figure.

There is no such useful rebooting in a Linux system. It is as reliable as the sunrise, with uptimes in weeks, months and years. Virtually no configuration change requires a reboot, to boot. Imagine all that plaque in the computer. Gross!

In XP I am prevented from making dangerous fundamental configuration changes unless I use a special "registry editor". I have found it so useful to have this separate editor that I hope in future versions they go all the way and supply a separate editor for each file on the disk-- in that way windows could pop up at every keystroke to warn me that changing any line in the file I am editing could cause the system to not run properly. If this were only the case, people would finally learn that it is best to just stick with the mouse and they would be freed of the need to constantly move their hands back to the keyboard. (If one stops to think about it, the mouse is a much better device to use than the keyboard. Ever hear of someone getting carpal tunnel syndrome from a mouse? No. It's comfortable and ergonomic. Like Morse code devices. That's how long distance communication started, after all.)

Linux, by contrast, requires no special editor to change configuration files. The fact that there is no "registry" in Linux allows the abomination of using any text editor whatsoever to do the configuration. Can you believe that configuration files are usually stored clear text? Talk about dangerous!

I am also happy to report that I have experienced no truth to the rumor that Windows disks become corrupt after improper shutdowns. Indeed, I have been forced to improperly shutdown the machine innumerable times after it locks up, and I have no apparent problems to report regarding the disk. No such claim can be made for Linux. They say something about lack of data points. Excuses are all I ever seem to hear from the Linux crowd.

By sheer size alone, Windows XP beats Linux hands down. It is so much bigger, it is _obvious_ that it is better. Why would you want a small OS with the large disks and RAM sizes we have these days? For this reason alone, I heartily recommend Windows as a way to maximize resource utilization. Your CPU and disk will constantly be pegged to the limit, the way god intended. The Linux kernel and drivers accounts for only about 750KB. Why, even the Microsoft Win16 subsystem uses more space than that.

It is no surprise that Windows XP costs $300 on the retail market and Linux doesn't cost anything. People know what they want, and they want Windows XP. Because Linux is free, that means it's basically worthless. The same goes for all the development tools, remotable GUIs, and applications, which all cost money for Windows (i.e., are worth something) and free for Linux (worthless!).

Installing software is very easy in Windows XP. I usually slip in CDs without even reading instructions or warnings, and just double click on whatever window pops up. There is no need to read anything or touch the keyboard. (Did I mention that I hate that thing?) Well, OK, I have learned the hard way the machine locks up if I don't take the time to close all other applications.

Linux, by contrast, requires typing on the keyboard to get anything to install at all. And you always have to know the NAME of program you want to install. For example, in Slackware, you have to type "pkgtool" to install a program. Linux needs to get with the 21st century!

Windows XP follows the DOS convention of putting \r\n at the end of every line of a text file. While this is only a mild concern because of the relative rarity of text files on Windows machines these days-- thank god--it helps to differentiate between the text files and the other files. Sadly, Linux makes no distinction between text and other files.

If I legitimately purchase Windows XP, I can call Microsoft customer support to get help with my problems. After a short hold time of an hour or so, they always help me. Ever since I told them that I was dual booting to Linux, they were able to flag my account and now each time I call even the entry level support personnel I am connected to say that Linux is the source of my problems. Everyone seems to agree that Linux is no good. The more I listen, the more I'm impressed with the knowledge of the support staff there.

By contrast, in Linux, all I have is stockpiles of resources and documentation that I would actually have to read in order to understand. Sure, I could obtain Linux support from a commercial organization, but they would probably just tell me I have to use a text editor to fix up my system.

In the end, I have no need for that old computer donkey Unix. I don't need to run big Unix tasks, after all. I refuse to become one of those a bug-eyed computer users, that's for sure. As soon as I can keep Windows XP from crashing for long enough, I'm going to delete my Linux partition, i.e., the equivalent of moving it to the Recycle Bin, saying that I'm sure, emptying the Recycle Bin, and again saying that I'm sure I want to empty it.

Re:Article Text

[insanecarbonbasedlif]

Dude, I'm trying to not read the article here... and then you ambush me with this... How can I be expected to write nonsensical flames from the summary if you are confronting me with the *full text* of the article!? Come on, gimme a break here.

Strange...

[gillbates]

Consumers said they had been forced to turn to illegal copies because Microsoft had used its virtual monopoly to inflate prices.

So even though a federal court found MS guilty of doing the same thing here, MS got to keep their high prices and predatory practices. Amazing.

It seems as if Taiwan has succeeded in doing what John Ashcroft and Co. (and his predecessors, for that matter) could never do: control Microsoft. Strange, isn't it, that Taiwan can effectively demand concessions from a foreign company when our own DOJ can't even enforce the judgements they do have against a domestic one...

Yeah, the future's bright. I think I'm going to start a monopoly somewhere - then I can tell John Ashcroft and the DOJ where to go...

Re:KremlinXP

[tomhudson]

So now we can soon also get the Red Screen of Death, and Microsoft Ivan?

Re:Forced to buy pirated copies? Come on

[NathanBales]

Basic survival necessities: Food Water Windows Shelter Slashdot

Re:WAR3Z

[Soko]

Possibly, but I have a feeling that microsoft would probably remove all comments from their source code and make the variable names all meaningless.

I don't think so - there is the Shared Source initiative from Microsoft. Obuscation of the code would be unprofessional at best.

Then it would be nigh on impossible to understand how windows works.

With all of the code profilers and debuggers out there, obuscation would only be a temporary set back. (*Avoids cheap shot about the average Windows user*)

I don't say this because i think they're evil, but it's common sense for them if what you suggest might happen did happen. Their source code is a close secret, and I dont think they would even want a government of any country to see it.

I also don't think that MS is "evil", but I disagree with the rest of your statement. Along with your Shared Source agreement comes an NDA. In that NDA (AFAIK), you state that you won't use the source to make your own version of Windows, nor will you help the competition in any way, which does make perect sense from a business perspective.

However, seeing that Linux and a lot of other OSS is in direct competition with Microsoft, they've basically removed you from developing OSS. Why wouldn't they want a government to be legally bound to not develop OSS? That's part of the strategic fall out from Shared Source - stealing mindshare through NDAs.

Using a WAR3Zed copy of the Windows source code to "help" an OSS project would be even worse, since you would have used illegally obtained IP and polluted the code, giving Microsoft both legal and moral ground to kill the project you contributed to.

Please, stay away from Windows source code, unless you have no desire or need to contribute to OSS.

Soko

Probably a quid pro quo

[jratcliffe]

It looks like what really happened here is that the Taiwanese gov't "implied" to MSFT that, if they didn't show some flexibility in app bundling (Office apps, NOT Windows), then they Taiwanese gov't wouldn't be very supportive when it came to cracking down on piracy. So MSFT cuts prices, and the gov't continues to make some effort to reduce piracy.

Re:What?

[1010011010]

what are they supposed when someone sends them .doc files?

Complain.

Re:Visual Studio .NET

[bm_luethke]

I have to disagree, come to Knoxville, Tennessee. We have a shortage of programmers. Go to smaller areas of Tennessee and you will find the same, most likely any of the millions of acres of realativly rural America also has this problem. You will make in the low 30's (average salary is about 16-18 so it's good money for here). Sure your not in the center of tech, you don't have a large city, and you will be surrounded by rednecks. But you will have a house, food, and a few toys (jetskis, cars, computers - you can afford some decent ones). Heck, you may find that you actually like living in slower rural areas.

More properly you can't find a job in the places you want to live - there are plenty if you are willing to go anywhere. Nor will you make "big bucks" - you will make more than a large portion of our population though.

Forced

[_fuzz_]

Seems the citizens were forced to obtain pirated copies due to the high cost...

Ya, and I was forced to steal cable TV and uncap my cable modem and copy videos I rented all because they're more than I can afford to pay.

Geez, just because you can't afford something doesn't give you the right to steal it (or infringe on the copyright as the case may be). There are affordable alternatives out there to most expensive things.

Russian Matrjoshka clippy.

[nlinecomputers]

Will be more annoying the US version. If you click on him he will spilt open and out will come out a smalller one. Click on him - same thing.

Vertial Matrojshka clippy.

It's funny because it's true.

[raehl]

For most people, security is not important. Top performance is not important. Optimum configuration is not important. Control is not important. Not having to power toggle is not important.

Being able to put the CD in the CD drive, press a button a couple of times, reboot, and get what you want is VERY IMPORTANT. NOT THINKING is VERY IMPORTANT.

Users want things that work like coffee machines. You plug it in and it works. If you want a different coffee machine, you get a different coffee machine and plug it in and it works. Windows makes computers a lot more like coffee machines than Linux does. Having to turn your computer on an off to get a new feature is much less of a problem than having to know what to type to get a new feature. Linux wants you to figure stuff out. Microsoft wants your money.

For most people, giving up money is easier.