Slashdot Mirror
Taiwan Forces MS To Cut Prices, Unbundle Software
bev_tech_rob writes "This article from ZDNet reports how Microsoft has agreed to cut prices on their software after a backlash from the country's effort to crack down on piracy. Seems the citizens were forced to obtain pirated copies due to the high cost and having to buy software they did not need to get the parts they DID need."
How long do I have before the BSA shows up at my door if I make the arguement that I was FORCED to use all those . .um ..demonstration copies ..of microsoft software because of the high cost?
Yeah. Forced. Arm twisting and the whole deal.
anything i tell you will cloud your opinion.
Too bad the US couldn't learn a little from Taiwan...
Sorry, even with how much control over the computer industry MS has, I find it hard to believe that anyone can be 'forced' to pirate Windows, or Office, or whatever. There ARE free alternatives.
using namespace slashdot;
troll::post();
Gee, this sounds awfully familiar. Not a problem unique to Taiwan. I wonder if (and hope) it will ultimately have implications for the US market.
"I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them." -Isaac Asimov
Hopefully after they see the positive effect this has on the consumer, they will start to do the same elsewhere.
I am serious.
No really, I'm being serious.
Not just MS, but software making companies all over the world charge way too much money for software. The number one reason there's so much pirating is because software simply costs too much. But reduced prices or not, I'll still favor Open Source over anything else.
You're right, I wouldn't steal a car. But if it were possible, I sure as hell would download one!
I was once forced by pirates to use Microsoft software. Will that get me any sort of discount?
Assuming the software in Taiwan is a lot cheaper than in North America and Europe, what's to stop someone from buy^H^H^Hlicensing MS' software in Taiwan and using it here? Do the licenses actually have clauses against that?
Trolling is a art,
Seems the citizens were forced to obtain pirated copies due to the high cost
This is a problem most people under 24 seem to have...
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
What do i do ? ... GNU/Linux ) ....Windows XP kills your kids, go with linux
Bash Mircosoft ?
Praise Taiwan ?
Hail Linux ? (oops
Seriously, I miss those days when slashdot's M$ stories were like
So easy to pick a side, now with these ambiguous stories, I don't know which side i am on.
for the last time people, I am "frodo from middle eaRTH", not "middle eaST".
Possibly, but I have a feeling that microsoft would probably remove all comments from their source code and make the variable names all meaningless. Then it would be nigh on impossible to understand how windows works.
I don't say this because i think they're evil, but it's common sense for them if what you suggest might happen did happen. Their source code is a close secret, and I dont think they would even want a government of any country to see it.
....i thought it was integrated and couldnt be sold seperately??? wasnt that part of their argument at the monopoly trials? if they can break it up into components for those guys, why the HELL can't they do it for us here in the states? seems unfair to me...i dont want to pay hundreds of dollars for an operating system that is only nessessary for games, yet here i am...
Gentlemen...BEHOLD!
-Dr. Weird
We're still not paying for Windows, though.
;)
DarklordJonnyDigital, officially surfing on Debian
Taiwan represents a very tech-saavy populace that's probably a close 2nd to South Korea in terms of computing skills. Even if Microsoft can get just half of all Microsoft-using citizens there to actually pay money for MS products, they will make an amazing profit that will line the pockets of MS executives.
Taiwan is famous for more than just piracy, and your comment was rude and unnecessary. Most mass-produced toys are made in Taiwan because they perfected advanced assembly line techniques and could do it cheaper than the U.S.
Join The (1337) Clan If You Have What It Takes!
Background: 28/M/Bi-Sexual; Owner of a Linux company; MBA Harvard 2003; B.S. Comp Sci MIT 2000
It doesn't matter right now anyway - as there are no jobs available for when you graduate.
I would look somewhere other than programming to spend your education dollars.
.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
The article complains about software being packaged in expensive bundles.
Just looking up the prices for MS software on Outpost.com, Word costs $340 and Excel costs $320, but Office itself only costs $440. Office also includes Powerpoint (another $320 by itself) and Outlook ($100 by itself).
Even for just one component, you're far better off buying the bundle here in the US. How much is the bundle mark-up that they're complaining about?
bytesmythe
Hypocrisy is the resin that holds the plywood of society together.
-- Scott Meyer
breaking up windows would destroy the OS when the antitrust suit was on?
Their arguement was about taking IE out of Windows. The article talks about breaking up OfficeXP into individual packages, WordXP and ExcelXP, so you aren't forced to buy the entire Office suite.
-- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.
They do!
.NET for free.
Before you pluck down a few hundred dollars for the latest edition of Visual Studio, please be sure to stop by your computer science faculty office and see if they have discounted Microsoft licensing deals.
My school has so many alumni working at Microsoft that anyone and everyone taking CS classes at the university can obtain Windows 2000 and Visual Studio
Join The (1337) Clan If You Have What It Takes!
Background: 28/M/Bi-Sexual; Owner of a Linux company; MBA Harvard 2003; B.S. Comp Sci MIT 2000
Microsoft will also share its Windows source code as part of its Government Security Program, which allows governments to adapt the software and test its ability to fend off hackers.
Russia was the first country to take advantage of the program in January. The source code--blueprints of Microsoft's dominant operating systems--is one of the world's most tightly protected corporate secrets.
Knowing russian social structure, (considering I used to live there...) that source will quicly become public.
KremlinXP anybody?
Free speech is getting expensive...
If you are a student, you have no real _need_ of the enterprise architect version. Sure, it might be nice to poke around and play with BUT, that's not what you should be learning in school. VS.NET is just a tool and nothing more, the only reason you need it at all is as an environment to implement the coding techniques you are being taught. (If you're being taught VS.NET explicitly rather than a language, or even better, general programming paradigms(sp?) and methods, you may want to rethink where you are going to school;-)
.NET, MS has actually made it so that you have absolutely NO need of VS.net, since by downloading the sdk, you can write code in notepad and compile etc from the tools provided for _free_.
Besides, with the release of
VS.NET is a convenience tool and nothing more, and as such MS does deserve to be paid for it without a doubt. Go compare other professional IDE's at the street price, you'll realize that even then VS.NET is a great deal. You should be happy as a student that there IS a cheaper version provided for something that is just a tool.
No Comment.
Think about it. 50 million lines of code. If you were to read 1 line per second, 8 hours a day, 6 days a week, year-round, it would take you 5-1/2 years just to read it all!
Then you'd have to understand it.
By then it would be obsolete, anyway, because it would be 1 or 2 generations behind.
If you've ever gone through even a 5,000 page program, you know that just getting yourself oriented to that you know where to look takes TIME.
Back in the '80s Microsoft was in the habit of screwing up/obfuscating the symbol tables on the software they released - until the courts made them stop that practice.
They could just use BSD or Linux with Open Office or KOffice.
Better solution I believe!
It could be that because Taiwan is such a small country and that it is so steeped in technology production. Most people in the world don't care enough to get their government to fight for them on tech issues.
Brought to you by the Artificial Idea Factory.
Cuz we can afford it. In a lot of other countries around the world where a worker only brings home $1200 a year (and that's rich for some villagers in China), how can they afford a $100-$300USD app suite? Enter the five finger or low cost piracy. Plain and simple economics, not ethics. And since when is M$ an ethical company anyway?
Dude, I'm trying to not read the article here... and then you ambush me with this... How can I be expected to write nonsensical flames from the summary if you are confronting me with the *full text* of the article!? Come on, gimme a break here.
Just because I doubt myself does not mean I find your position compelling.
So even though a federal court found MS guilty of doing the same thing here, MS got to keep their high prices and predatory practices. Amazing.
It seems as if Taiwan has succeeded in doing what John Ashcroft and Co. (and his predecessors, for that matter) could never do: control Microsoft. Strange, isn't it, that Taiwan can effectively demand concessions from a foreign company when our own DOJ can't even enforce the judgements they do have against a domestic one...
Yeah, the future's bright. I think I'm going to start a monopoly somewhere - then I can tell John Ashcroft and the DOJ where to go...
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
So now we can soon also get the Red Screen of Death, and Microsoft Ivan?
You can see most of it (I think some security stuff or something like that is out), but you can't compile it to obtain again i.e. Windows XP afaik. Even if someone gets that source code, and even if its not traceable to the licensee that obtained it, for what it will be useful?
Worst than that, if you develop something barely based in a shared source licensed code, Microsoft not only will sue you, but also will own anything you did with it for their own profit. I would run away from that kind of sources, and fast.
Instead of this, you have all kind of sources in open source license, a lot with BSD if you are scared by MS anti-GPL propaganda, if you want quality (?) working sources for complex tasks.
Of course, if windows XP sources are distributed by some war3z group, we will see how a security by obscurity system stand against a bit of light on it.
That wrong being righted aside, the soure is certainly not useless, and it wouldn't take a huge amount of effort to de-obfuscate and domcument the code. A sourceforge project with a handful of bright peopel could do it relatively easily.
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
Basic survival necessities: Food Water Windows Shelter Slashdot
Possibly, but I have a feeling that microsoft would probably remove all comments from their source code and make the variable names all meaningless.
I don't think so - there is the Shared Source initiative from Microsoft. Obuscation of the code would be unprofessional at best.
Then it would be nigh on impossible to understand how windows works.
With all of the code profilers and debuggers out there, obuscation would only be a temporary set back. (*Avoids cheap shot about the average Windows user*)
I don't say this because i think they're evil, but it's common sense for them if what you suggest might happen did happen. Their source code is a close secret, and I dont think they would even want a government of any country to see it.
I also don't think that MS is "evil", but I disagree with the rest of your statement. Along with your Shared Source agreement comes an NDA. In that NDA (AFAIK), you state that you won't use the source to make your own version of Windows, nor will you help the competition in any way, which does make perect sense from a business perspective.
However, seeing that Linux and a lot of other OSS is in direct competition with Microsoft, they've basically removed you from developing OSS. Why wouldn't they want a government to be legally bound to not develop OSS? That's part of the strategic fall out from Shared Source - stealing mindshare through NDAs.
Using a WAR3Zed copy of the Windows source code to "help" an OSS project would be even worse, since you would have used illegally obtained IP and polluted the code, giving Microsoft both legal and moral ground to kill the project you contributed to.
Please, stay away from Windows source code, unless you have no desire or need to contribute to OSS.
Soko
"Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
It looks like what really happened here is that the Taiwanese gov't "implied" to MSFT that, if they didn't show some flexibility in app bundling (Office apps, NOT Windows), then they Taiwanese gov't wouldn't be very supportive when it came to cracking down on piracy. So MSFT cuts prices, and the gov't continues to make some effort to reduce piracy.
Pirated software (Especially MS software) is also used here, but then, this has a big draw back for the people using the software.
Huge programs have localized specifications, which require a bit of more work, and cost the company money, if the company does not gain money through this country, these localizations will not be worked on anymore, and then the whole country/area would lose.
Seems MS however, in this case, have thoughtfully considered the issue and found out that reducing prices and wining the user is worth more than otherwise, but would this always be the case? I really doubt so!
Khalid
"What you 'seek' is what you get!"
Price is relative to the country you live in. "Eastern Economy Editions" of many technical books are a good example of this. Many can't afford the books if you sell them at the same price as USD. (Sure, the paper quality is low, but that's beside the point - if you want people to buy, better make it affordable).
Seems the citizens were forced to obtain pirated copies due to the high cost and having to buy software they did not need to get the parts they DID need.
So that explains why piracy effects nearly industry in asian countries. Its simply due to illegal monopolies and bundling useless stuff with useful stuff. Apparently people wanting to get something for nothing isn't the real reason after all.
I have to disagree, come to Knoxville, Tennessee. We have a shortage of programmers. Go to smaller areas of Tennessee and you will find the same, most likely any of the millions of acres of realativly rural America also has this problem. You will make in the low 30's (average salary is about 16-18 so it's good money for here). Sure your not in the center of tech, you don't have a large city, and you will be surrounded by rednecks. But you will have a house, food, and a few toys (jetskis, cars, computers - you can afford some decent ones). Heck, you may find that you actually like living in slower rural areas.
More properly you can't find a job in the places you want to live - there are plenty if you are willing to go anywhere. Nor will you make "big bucks" - you will make more than a large portion of our population though.
------- Sorry about the spelling, I suffer from two problems. Dyslexia makes it difficult to spell well, lazy makes it
Raise that number. We are in a recession.
Together, we will drive the rats from the tundra.
Well darn.
(Taiwan's Ministry of Information Technology bought all rights to the PenPoint OS and UI back when Go Corp. when bankrupt (see Jerry Kaplan's book _StartUp_) and I'd always wondered if it'd been to use it as bargaining chip to get better prices.)
Another great conspiracy theory down the drain.
William
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
Ya, and I was forced to steal cable TV and uncap my cable modem and copy videos I rented all because they're more than I can afford to pay.
Geez, just because you can't afford something doesn't give you the right to steal it (or infringe on the copyright as the case may be). There are affordable alternatives out there to most expensive things.
47% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
Will be more annoying the US version. If you click on him he will spilt open and out will come out a smalller one. Click on him - same thing.
Vertial Matrojshka clippy.
Slashdot, home of supporters of free software, free music, and free speech.Except for Moderators that disagree with you.
>>the citizens were forced to obtain pirated copies due to the high cost and having to buy software they did not need to get the parts they DID need.
How many people really NEED MS Office applications? Literally nobody. You can't claim on the one hand that Office applications suck and the alternatives are better and on the other that people can't stop using them. You can't claim on the one hand that nobody uses anything more than the simplest features and on the other that the file formats are a big problem, since the file formats for basic Office docs are well understood.
The truth here is that people used pirated copies because they didn't want to pay the price Microsoft asked. They're thieves.
It should be obvious to most people that the price demanded by microsoft is far to high for what you get. Office is ~$400 for five or six programs.. These programs were not that complex in the first place. I know I'd much rather program a program like Word then some of the harder parts of the Windows OS ( ~$150).. Add onto this that the programs in the suite haven't been changed by much in the last 10 years.
If I was running a company, it would seem quite obvious that I could have my employees do exactly the same things with OpenOffice (free) or Corel Office (much less $$ than MS) and my company could save hundreds of dollars per employee.
Click here to read too much about my personal life
Your argument is naieve to the point of dishonesty.
Starbucks does not conspire to, nor is it unwillingly subject to, any forces that would create artificial need for it's product. Starbucks is also not a confirmed abusive monopolist that specifically manipulates such forces.
Buying from Joe's Java Shack doesn't affect your ability to interact with Starbuck's customers, nor does it prevent you from gaining use of other similar products in the marketplace.
IOW, software is not a physical commodity. Armchair moralists should not argue as if it were.
Don't like stealing? Then try some honesty.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
1) My last pc (purchased early 2001) shipped with Windows ME. Come on. What was I supposed to do with that? Had it been clearly marked "Unusable Operating System" I would have waited until XP was released before buying. As it was, I sure didn't feel much like shelling out more dough for yet another MS operating system --- and I don't think I should have had to.
2) My dad bought MS's Streets & Maps (yeah, I know -- dad, did you ever heard of Mapquest?) and put it on his XP machine. Then he tried to install it on my mom's XP laptop. Which it choked because it already had gotten hooked into his machine, I guess contacting the M(other) S(hip) to tell them what he was doing. I don't think my dad should have to buy TWO versions of Streets & Maps for one household.
But, these kinds of things backfire on a corporation. People eventually get sick of it, like they did in Taiwan. What goes around comes around, I guess it's Karma.
http://ob-la-blog.blogspot.com/
For most people, security is not important. Top performance is not important. Optimum configuration is not important. Control is not important. Not having to power toggle is not important.
Being able to put the CD in the CD drive, press a button a couple of times, reboot, and get what you want is VERY IMPORTANT. NOT THINKING is VERY IMPORTANT.
Users want things that work like coffee machines. You plug it in and it works. If you want a different coffee machine, you get a different coffee machine and plug it in and it works. Windows makes computers a lot more like coffee machines than Linux does. Having to turn your computer on an off to get a new feature is much less of a problem than having to know what to type to get a new feature. Linux wants you to figure stuff out. Microsoft wants your money.
For most people, giving up money is easier.
paintball
I can't believe Ballmer was stupid enough to turn over source code to the Russian government! People who know or have had any dealings with Russian red-tape knows that Russian mob make the Yakuza look like a Brownie scouts. They are part and parcel of the government there. I give it 6 months, tops, before windows source is all over the warez croud. These guys will make sure it gets there just to screw with MS.
"Microsoft should simply build and distribute, for free, special versions of its software infected with destructive viruses. Then, people who use pirated software will be in for a rude but humorous surprise when a deadly version of Windows XP deletes all the data from the engineering workstation, medical database in an intensive care unit of a hospital, etc. Imagine a Chinese nuclear missile blowing up suddenly because of data that has been altered by a virus-infected version of Windows XP. "
You just described the US version of Windows XP.
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d